Le'Veon Bell, Yes Or No?

[section314]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

Luckily, the Jets are in position to get both if they really wanted.  Go buy Bell, go draft one of the many pass rushers coming out.  Or go buy Dee Ford or Dante Fowler and Bell.  The Jets have the cash.

I just can't see a legit rusher hitting free agency. Lawrence and Ford are no brainers, Fowler not so sure. If he can't put up good #'s with Suh and Donald pushing the pocket, might be a hard pass. Remember what Salaam and Lyons did for Gastineau and Klecko. Plus, isn't this draft supposed to be for pass rushers what 1983 was for QB's?

[ChuckkieB]

Bell makes us think about the age old question - is a RB a product of his offensive line and scheme or does the RB make his offensive line look good.  The numbers tell us that Conner is putting up similar numbers to Bell, but despite that, I personally think that Bell IS a playmaker, and it's been a long while since the Jets had a playmaker on offense.  Our young QB needs playmakers.  We should sign Bell.  

[bitonti]

they have to spend the money on someone, you'd think 

18 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The only thing that I take solace in is that his holdout has misfired and, IMO, hurt his value. I don't think he's gonna get anywhere near what he thought he'd get. We'll see how it plays it.

 

Had Bell played out this tag, he'd still have made less in his entire career than Zeke Elliot made on his rookie contract. 

He's going to get paid on the open market. Don't believe the Steelers' locker room propaganda. 

[JustInFudge]

In my life time, we've never had player like this: 

 

[bla bla bla]

8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In 2017 Leveon Bell averaged 86 rushing yards per game on 21 carries per game for an average of 4 YPC. He averaged 5.6 receptions per game for 43.66 yards receiving per game. He scored 0.73 TDs per game.

In 2018 James Conner is averaging 85.5 rushing yards per game on 18.1 carries per game for an average of 4.7 YPC. He averages 4.42 receptions per game for 46.15 yards receiving per game. He has scored 1.28 TDs per game.

But yeah, let's give the first guy 16 million per year. Clearly he's the engine that makes that team go.

I see what you are trying to do but you don’t mention how the NFL changed this offseason, we can pretty much throw out comparing stats in previous years.

The Ringer - Offensive Explosion

After four weeks, few single-season passing records appear safe. Mahomes (14 touchdowns) is on pace to break Peyton Manning’s touchdown record (55). Goff (127.3) and Mahomes (126.5) are both on pace to surpass Aaron Rodgers’s record for passer rating (122.5). Ben Roethlisberger (1,414 yards), Goff (1,406), Kirk Cousins (1,387), and Derek Carr (1,373) are all on pace to break Manning’s record for passing yards (5,477). And that QB production has trickled down to skill players: Julio Jones (502 yards) is on pace to break Calvin Johnson’s receiving-yards record (1,964). Michael Thomas (42 catches) and Adam Thielen (40) are both on pace to break Marvin Harrison’s record for receptions (143), and Alvin Kamara’s not far off (35). Calvin Ridley (six touchdown catches)—a rookie—is on pace to break Randy Moss’s touchdowns record (23).

 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I see what you are trying to do but you don’t mention how the NFL changed this offseason, we can pretty much throw out comparing stats in previous years.

The Ringer - Offensive Explosion

After four weeks, few single-season passing records appear safe. Mahomes (14 touchdowns) is on pace to break Peyton Manning’s touchdown record (55). Goff (127.3) and Mahomes (126.5) are both on pace to surpass Aaron Rodgers’s record for passer rating (122.5). Ben Roethlisberger (1,414 yards), Goff (1,406), Kirk Cousins (1,387), and Derek Carr (1,373) are all on pace to break Manning’s record for passing yards (5,477). And that QB production has trickled down to skill players: Julio Jones (502 yards) is on pace to break Calvin Johnson’s receiving-yards record (1,964). Michael Thomas (42 catches) and Adam Thielen (40) are both on pace to break Marvin Harrison’s record for receptions (143), and Alvin Kamara’s not far off (35). Calvin Ridley (six touchdown catches)—a rookie—is on pace to break Randy Moss’s touchdowns record (23).

  

That was from a month ago, I'm pretty sure none of those guys are still on pace to break those records. Mahomes and Goff definitely aren't.

The league will continue to trend toward more offense but there hasn't been some massive fundamental change between 2017 and 2018. There are just a lot of good young QBs right now taking advantage of the rules.

[#27TheDominator]

Bell is going to get paid, and more power to him.  

I know it is en vogue to say RBs are a dime and dozen and the Conner is doing more than Bell, but I think people are glossing over the fact that the Steelers D is in the sh*tter.  They are giving up 5 more points per game.  They aren't winning these games either.  They are 4-2-1. In 2017 they were 13-3.  Teams are less likely to give a sh*t if they give 4.8 ypc or 4.2 ypc when they know they can roll down and score on the next drive.

They haven't exactly played murderer's row either - the Browns twice?  The Bucs?  The Falcons?  4 games against teams in the bottom 10 yards per game,, 5 against teams in the bottom 10 ypc.  The "tough" run defenses they have faced are Baltimore and Tampa.  Tampa.  LOL.  

[Gastineau Lives]

27 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In 2017 Leveon Bell averaged 86 rushing yards per game on 21 carries per game for an average of 4 YPC. He averaged 5.6 receptions per game for 43.66 yards receiving per game. He scored 0.73 TDs per game.

In 2018 James Conner is averaging 85.5 rushing yards per game on 18.1 carries per game for an average of 4.7 YPC. He averages 4.42 receptions per game for 46.15 yards receiving per game. He has scored 1.28 TDs per game.

But yeah, let's give the first guy 16 million per year. Clearly he's the engine that makes that team go.

And this is why comparisons are silly. Conner's had four big games, two against Cleveland, one against Atlanta and one against Cincinnati. But yes, everyone is interchangeable.

Since it's the offense and not the player, how far do you go down the list before you get to a guy that is not as good as Bell?

Is Todd Gurley good?

[Beerfish]

I'm not sure he is going to get paid what he wants, look at the safety market this past year?  Look at the success of joe nobody in this league? The teams that will pay for him will be desperate sucker teams like the jets.

It does have maccagnan written all over it,  refuse to use any draft capital on rbs but be willing to pay them the moon in fa.

[Gastineau Lives]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bell is going to get paid, and more power to him.  

I know it is en vogue to say RBs are a dime and dozen and the Conner is doing more than Bell, but I think people are glossing over the fact that the Steelers D is in the sh*tter.  They are giving up 5 more points per game.  They aren't winning these games either.  They are 4-2-1. In 2017 they were 13-3.  Teams are less likely to give a sh*t if they give 4.8 ypc or 4.2 ypc when they know they can roll down and score on the next drive.

They haven't exactly played murderer's row either - the Browns twice?  The Bucs?  The Falcons?  4 games against teams in the bottom 10 yards per game,, 5 against teams in the bottom 10 ypc.  The "tough" run defenses they have faced are Baltimore and Tampa.  Tampa.  LOL.  

LOL indeed

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

That was from a month ago, I'm pretty sure none of those guys are still on pace to break those records. Mahomes and Goff definitely aren't.

The league will continue to trend toward more offense but there hasn't been some massive fundamental change between 2017 and 2018. There are just a lot of good young QBs right now taking advantage of the rules.

Kind of a silly argument, no?  Look what Conner has done over a half a season!  Now, you can't look at offensive numbers from October 3rd because the sample size was too small?  Conner has strung together 3 nice games against the 26, 29, 24 best run defenses.  Or 20, 26, 28 if you go by ypg.  Yippee!!

[Barry McCockinner]

We need to take a serious look but if he still wants a ridiculous pay check I think we should let someone else over pay.

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

In my life time, we've never had player like this: 

 

#5! And this list is compiled & picked by his PEERS! Ask defenders who find themselves alone in the flat with Bell, or defenders who thought they had him dead to rights before he ran between them sideways like Eric Dickerson. Jet fans are insane. This is like getting a BETTER Curtis Martin. Saying James Conner is as good as Bell is like saying Thomas Jones was as good Curtis Martin. Obviously the Steelers Oline is playing better than the previous 3 years, Big Ben was getting sacked A LOT does anyone remember? He contemplated retiring. People compare Sam to Ben, let's give him a shiny Ferrari and another stud WR & see where he can go with it. 

[Bruce Harper]

Picking up Curtis Martin was one of the best moves we ever made.  I'm not saying they are the same guy but he will really help Darnold.  And I think we desperately need at least one stud offensive lineman, even if it is in the first round.

[UntouchableCrew]

9 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

And this is why comparisons are silly. Conner's had four big games, two against Cleveland, one against Atlanta and one against Cincinnati. But yes, everyone is interchangeable.

 Since it's the offense and not the player, how far do you go down the list before you get to a guy that is not as good as Bell?

Is Todd Gurley good?

Todd Gurley is awesome. I think he's better than Bell, personally.

[Bruce Harper]

39 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In 2017 Leveon Bell averaged 86 rushing yards per game on 21 carries per game for an average of 4 YPC. He averaged 5.6 receptions per game for 43.66 yards receiving per game. He scored 0.73 TDs per game.

In 2018 James Conner is averaging 85.5 rushing yards per game on 18.1 carries per game for an average of 4.7 YPC. He averages 4.42 receptions per game for 46.15 yards receiving per game. He has scored 1.28 TDs per game.

But yeah, let's give the first guy 16 million per year. Clearly he's the engine that makes that team go.

Maybe they're both just really good.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Kind of a silly argument, no?  Look what Conner has done over a half a season!  Now, you can't look at offensive numbers from October 3rd because the sample size was too small?  Conner has strung together 3 nice games against the 26, 29, 24 best run defenses.  Or 20, 26, 28 if you go by ypg.  Yippee!!

I mean, it is what it is. Obviously it's not a huge sample size, but it's there clear as day. The Steelers haven't missed him and refuse to pay him what he wants because they're a smart organization that wins year in and year out. The organization that pays him (very possibly the Jets) will be a dumb organization that loses year in and year out.

[bla bla bla]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

That was from a month ago, I'm pretty sure none of those guys are still on pace to break those records. Mahomes and Goff definitely aren't.

The league will continue to trend toward more offense but there hasn't been some massive fundamental change between 2017 and 2018. There are just a lot of good young QBs right now taking advantage of the rules.

I’d like to revisit this at the seasons end for a complete analysis but I remember hearing the record for total TDs through the first 4 weeks was  205 (a record 17 years old) this year it was 228. If you remove Goff and Mahommes from the conversation the average QB Rating is 4 points higher than it was just 1 year ago.

Could it just be some good young players? Maybe, I wish I could dive deeper but I’m on a cell phone on vacation.

[BigRy56]

I'm going to say no - he has made quite a statement this year as a me-first player. How has that gone for the Giants and OBJ? The Steelers also haven't missed a beat without him.

I love the guy as a player, but I'm not totally sure he's what we're looking for as we continue to build this team. I'd rather allocate that free agent money toward pass rusher(s) (Tank Lawrence, Clowney, Dee Ford) and target offense in every single round of the draft.

A real sleeper in free agency is Tevin Coleman. He's been great in Atlanta both backing up Freeman and starting in place of him as he's been hurt a bunch. I'd rather have Coleman on the cheap.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

Maybe they're both just really good.

Seems unlikely, especially when you consider the Steelers have 1) a hall of fame QB 2) an excellent WR corps including arguably the best WR in the league and 3) a fantastic offensive line.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bell's "patient" running style won't look great behind this Jets o-line when he's getting stuffed for three yard losses.

I know people see that we have no weapons on offense and view him as a big name weapon but big contracts for RBs very rarely work out. It could very well happen because Mac is desperate (and doesn't appear to be very good at GMing) but signing Bell doesn't make sense to me.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm not sure he is going to get paid what he wants, look at the safety market this past year?  Look at the success of joe nobody in this league? The teams that will pay for him will be desperate sucker teams like the jets.

It does have maccagnan written all over it,  refuse to use any draft capital on rbs but be willing to pay them the moon in fa.

I get the idea that free agency is fickle and that RB is not a committee position, but the safety market is not a valid comparator IMO. I think Gurley and Barkley kind of reset the market.  The idea that Bell equates with Kenny Vaccaro, Eric Reid or Tre Boston is also a bit much for me.

[Gastineau Lives]

10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Todd Gurley is awesome. I think he's better than Bell, personally.

Fair enough. How much would you pay Gurley? Or are you just opposed to paying RB's big money, which is understandable.

[Bruce Harper]

The guy is better than anyone we have.  I think I would vote yes, in light of our cap situation, as long as the contract isn't totally nuts.

[Untouchable]

Hell yes you go after him.

He’s the only realistic offensive playmaker that we can add in the offseason. The WR market is going to suck. The OL market is going to suck with Marpet now re-signed in Tampa.

Throw money at guys like Bell, Barr and Fowler then make OL and WR the main focus in the draft.

 

[RSJ]

The Jets do need playmakers. If its not at the expense of spending on other positions I dont see any downside to signing Bell. If it hurts depth or hurts the teams chances of upgrading in other areas then I wouldnt want the team to sign him.


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[New York Mick]

No

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Normally I would pass on a RB in free agency, particularly one who's going to demand
a huge contract.  But with the amount of cap space we're going to have and the impact 
Bell can have on Darnold and the offense I'm warming to the idea:

Pros

- One of the best RB's in the game with absurd production
  http://www.nfl.com/player/le'veonbell/2540175/profile

- Bell would only be 27 going into the 2019 season, giving us three years before the "magic"
age of 30.  A front loaded contract with the majority of $$$ paid out in the first 3 years
would protect the cap

- He sat out this year which means he's saved a year of wear & tear on his legs

- An average over 4 every time he runs the ball and an average over 8 every time he catches
the ball

- He catches the ball out of the backfield like a WR

- Bell would make Darnold's job easier because the defense would focus on him.  They would bring
an extra man into the box and leave WR's in single coverage.  The screen game would become
devastating and the play action pass would be so much more effective
 

Cons

- Bell's had drug issues in the past and has been suspended

- I respect him for taking a stand on his contract and passing on 800K a week.  But that
stand (selfishness?) has caused a lot of turmoil in PIT, would he pull that here?  Could
we see Revis type of whining about his contract in the future?

NO!! Hes a cancer and Conner has shown that RB numbers are inflated in Pitt because of their offense. He will disappoint here and have a huge opportunity cost for other players. We need to draft a stud 22, 23 year old in the draft.

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, it is what it is. Obviously it's not a huge sample size, but it's there clear as day. The Steelers haven't missed him and refuse to pay him what he wants because they're a smart organization that wins year in and year out. The organization that pays him (very possibly the Jets) will be a dumb organization that loses year in and year out.

Clear as day.  4-2-1 vs 13-3.  They haven't missed him a bit!  Conner is actually a nice player, but his success shouldn't diminish Bell.  Certainly not to the level you are at.  The Steelers haven't paid him because they basically can't afford to.  I get worrying about giving him too much, but can you tell me who you are saving this money for? 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Those saying no: who are you spending money on instead? 

[Gastineau Lives]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, it is what it is. Obviously it's not a huge sample size, but it's there clear as day. The Steelers haven't missed him and refuse to pay him what he wants because they're a smart organization that wins year in and year out. The organization that pays him (very possibly the Jets) will be a dumb organization that loses year in and year out.

Right, but the Steelers also have Antonio Brown and JuJu to complement Ben.

Bell would change our offense. He's worth more to us than the Steelers.

[Jetster]

Anyone that says Bell isn't a big time talent is a moron. So an average talent like Bell somehow ends up as the #5 player on a list of the top 100 players chosen by their peers. But somehow, they dismissed the fact that the Steelers have a good Oline? 

Le'veon Bell decided that he was as good or better than a few of the top RBs in the league making more than him on their 1st contracts. He also decided that he's not going to let the Steelers run him into the ground with over 300 touches again until they can make up that lost income guys like Zeke Elliott were getting. 

While the Steelers are a smart organization, they also have the benefit of a HOF QB, a HOF WR in AB, plus a better WR in Juju Schuster who's better than any WR the Jets have at the moment & their Oline is good & have stayed healthy. 

The Jets can put themselves in that scenario by signing Bell, T.Williams, and drafting another stud WR & some Olineman. Big Ben like Brady, Rivers, will be trending down while Sam is trending up. 

[rammagen]

I would sign front loaded money and invest then in the online. a good oline makes everyone look better . The Offense stays on the field longer with longer more productive drives and the defense gets more rest

[rammagen]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

NO!! Hes a cancer and Conner has shown that RB numbers are inflated in Pitt because of their offense. He will disappoint here and have a huge opportunity cost for other players. We need to draft a stud 22, 23 year old in the draft.

you can still draft that stud as well. we have the money who are we going to spend money on?

[KRL]

Here's a reasonable off-season plan:

- Tender Robby Anderson at a first round rate

- Re-sign Quincy Enunwa

- Sign Le'Veon Bell

- Sign Devin Funchess
  http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2977609/devin-funchess  

- The goal should be to sign Jadeveon Clowney, if that doesn't work out
sign Dee Ford or a combo of Dante Fowler & Shane Ray

- With our first three picks select a LT, G and WR 

[CotcheryifyouCan]

not a huge fan of breaking the bank on a running back but the free agents this offseason are not very good. plus we have not had a playmaker in forever. sign bell,  barr, ford, resign claiborne, enunwa, draft best pass rusher in rd 1. o line and skill positions all other rounds