Leonard Williams traded to the Giants

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

Here is where I disagree with you.

No, because his drafting ability is a separate issue. Just giving us a chance to draft some players who can help out this team is a net positive. The simple fact is that Leonard Williams was not going to help this team moving forward. His leaving was a forgone conclusion. These two picks have a greater chance of positively impacting the team simply because we have them.

 

No. Hypothetically, let's say Leo has a comeback year next with 10 sacks. What makes you think he'd have that same amount of production with us in 2020? What evidence is there that you've seen this year? Perhaps a change of scenery and lowered expectation will be good for him, but I think it's pretty clear he's done here. This season was supposed to be his "prove-me" year, and all he's proved was that he hasn't earned an extension. Period.

Unless, of course, you think the problem here is coaching, which in that case we'd have to fire Gregg Williams at the end of the season along with extending Leo. Or, let's say the problem is he's playing with inferior talent, in which case we'd have to invest yet another high-round pick into the D-line along with extending Leo.

But, neither of those things were going to, or should, happen, and any expectation that Leo was finally going to turn into the player we thought we drafted, as a New York Jet, was dead in the water. I don't care what he does or how much for he signs with another team. If he has a career year for the Giants, all it will prove is that he we've done a colossal failure of a job at putting him in position to succeed here, and I don't think there's any reason to believe that would change any time soon.

 

We already have. Literally any linemen on the roster at this point will match his production.

 

Other than all that, I agree with you that it's mighty sh*tty that the initial cost to draft Leo in the first place was so high, and we now have to give him away for less than half of what that was worth.

I'll clarify, though, that this is not a criticism of JD and the trade (which some people can't seem to understand). This was a good move for JD. A victory. Only because he doesn't have any ownership of the initial failure that turned out to be drafting Leo Williams at #6 overall.

But, it's 100% bad for the fanbase to constantly have to watch their team draft high and sell low. That is precisely why this team is in such a bad place right now. I feel like this has been your point all along that's been, weirdly, lost on folks in this thread. 

It's also bad to have to constantly have the team turned over for...mostly nothing. I'm happy people are hopeful with Joe Douglas. I don't know him and, given how many times I've been burned, I'm skeptical. After all, just a few years ago, some Jets GM amassed 100 picks and none of them are playing.

I liked Leo as a person but I really think the DT position is overvalued: by itself, it's usually not an impact position in today's game. It's a necessary foundational piece but it doesn't seem to yield players like Randy White or Joe Klecko, mostly just complementary pieces. But that could be that our player development is so poor or both.

I really hope Joe Douglas is the real deal. I'm just a little skeptical because he's part of a management 'team' that has seen almost a decade of non-playoff football. And I know Gase has to go, he's worse than any recent Jets HC.

[johnnyjet]

The giants could have had him for nothing he’s a free agent in 10 games.  Guess they are prepping for their run.  Lol. 

[Ex-Rex]

6 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Solid return for an underperforming player. At least Leo won’t have to uproot his whole life. 

The Giants aren't going to pay him as a top DE/DT either so he will probably be on the street next year. Pretty decent return for a player who never lived up to expectations.

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It's also bad to have to constantly have the team turned over for...mostly nothing. I'm happy people are hopeful with Joe Douglas. I don't know him and, given how many times I've been burned, I'm skeptical. After all, just a few years ago, some Jets GM amassed 100 picks and none of them are playing.

I liked Leo as a person but I really think the DT position is overvalued: by itself, it's usually not an impact position in today's game. It's a necessary foundational piece but it doesn't seem to yield players like Randy White or Joe Klecko, mostly just complementary pieces. But that could be that our player development is so poor or both.

I really hope Joe Douglas is the real deal. I'm just a little skeptical because he's part of a management 'team' that has seen almost a decade of non-playoff football. And I know Gase has to go, he's worse than any recent Jets HC. 

Yeah, the real work for JD starts next draft and free agency, and these draft picks will help. We'll start to get a better idea about him then.

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A 3rd and 5th from a contending team is about 20 draft slots different from a 3rd and 5th (which could escalate to a 4th) from a bad team.  You absolutely did not predict this.  

 

On 10/13/2019 at 11:57 AM, Pac said:

I'd want a 2nd and 5th from kc.  Not sure they're in the market though as they've traded a lot of picks of late.

 

On 10/14/2019 at 7:39 PM, Pac said:

If all Douglas gets is a 4th rounder it would be a complete disaster.  I don't believe he's that bad of a GM.

What's more likely to happen is he'll get decent value (ie 2nd and a 5th) and people around here will be erecting a statue in his honor.

 

2nd and a 5th from KC is the equivalent of a 3rd and 4th from the Giants.

and what I predicted would happen with the Joe D love has happened.

 

I do NOT accept your apology.

[NYDreamer]

Leonard Williams will become Reggie White for the Giants.  It is just our luck

[BornJetsFan1983]

could you imagin getting a 3rd and 5th for robby too. holy crap that would be awesome

[Jetsfan80]

 
2nd and a 5th from KC is the equivalent of a 3rd and 4th from the Giants.
and what I predicted would happen with the Joe D love has happened.
 
I do NOT accept your apology.

If not for Gettleman, we’re either accepting a 4th or letting Leo walk in FA. Thanks Giants.

[Pac]

Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

could you imagin getting a 3rd and 5th for robby too. holy crap that would be awesome

I'd be worried about Darnold being left with a VERY questionable group of receivers but you'd almost have to take that deal. 

Between Douglas, Rex Hogan, Chad Alexander, and Phil Savage there is a LOT of experience in the FO.  It would be exciting to see what they could do with 12 picks!

[sec101row23]

Hopefully Douglas doesn’t piss away draft picks and cap dollars like the previous GM.  

[Pac]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

If not for Gettleman, we’re either accepting a 4th or letting Leo walk in FA. Thanks Giants.

I view this as tacit acknowledgement of your defeat and I do appreciate it.

[Pac]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Hopefully Douglas doesn’t piss away draft picks and cap dollars like the previous GM.  

Idzik is long gone.

[joewilly12]

Watch Leo destroy us in a couple of weeks. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

I'd be worried about Darnold being left with a VERY questionable group of receivers but you'd almost have to take that deal. 

Between Douglas, Rex Hogan, Chad Alexander, and Phil Savage there is a LOT of experience in the FO.  It would be exciting to see what they could do with 12 picks!

Considering two of his first moves were hiring a guy named Rex and hiring a guy named Chad I am not at all looking forward to seeing how Douglas drafts.

[Jetsfan80]

Idzik is long gone.

How the f**k is Macc STILL your hero? Not one player from the 2015 draft earned a 2nd contract.

[Pac]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Considering two of his first moves were hiring a guy named Rex and hiring a guy named Chad I am not at all looking forward to seeing how Douglas drafts.

Funny but come on..  even a curmudgeon like you would get a little hyped about 12 picks.  It could be a dramatic turnaround with a good draft.  I do believe they have the FO to avoid another Idzik 12.  There's simply no way it would be possible to have that bad of a draft.

*Actually 11 picks..  the 4th from the Giants wouldn't be till 2021.. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

How the f**k is Macc STILL your hero? Not one player from the 2015 draft earned a 2nd contract.

 

Devin Smith got a second contract. Hackenberg has had like five. In multiple leagues!

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Funny but come on..  even a curmudgeon like you would get a little hyped about 12 picks.  It could be a dramatic turnaround with a good draft.  I do believe they have the FO to avoid another Idzik 12.  There's simply no way it would be possible to have that bad of a draft.

*Actually 11 picks..  the 4th from the Giants wouldn't be till 2021.. 

More picks means I have to do more reading to get anything out of watching the draft. And yes, it is possible. Everybody is incompetent until proven otherwise. In general and definitely with this team.

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

How the f**k is Macc STILL your hero? Not one player from the 2015 draft earned a 2nd contract.

He's not...  I just don't think he's as bad as you all say he was.

funnier to let you pretend he's "my hero" and it doesn't matter anyway..  the people that have labelled me as such will never change their minds no matter what I say and I don't really care enough to try and convince you.

Meanwhile you'll never find 1 post where I said he was a great GM..  not 1 lol.

[sec101row23]

17 minutes ago, Pac said:

Idzik is long gone.

Right, but your Daddy was way worse.  

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The word 'have'

Beyond savage

[Pac]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Right, but your Daddy was way worse.  

^^

@Jetsfan80

[CTM]

47 minutes ago, Pac said:

He's not...  I just don't think he's as bad as you all say he was.

funnier to let you pretend he's "my hero" and it doesn't matter anyway..  the people that have labelled me as such will never change their minds no matter what I say and I don't really care enough to try and convince you.

Meanwhile you'll never find 1 post where I said he was a great GM..  not 1 lol.

Mac is this guys^ hero. What a buffoonagoon

[CTM]

28 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Beyond savage

Grammar nazi pron

[NYJ1]

That 3rd figures to be a high 3rd? Possibly even higher than the Jets?

[NYJ1]

Now he's got to deal Robbie Anderson.

[jetlaw]

This is a steal. Almost as good as when the chiefs gave us draft picks for herm Edwards.


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[choon328]

6 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

This is pretty much where I'm at.

I want to celebrate this, but... goddamn. A former #6 overall "best consensus player in teh draft" was just traded for a 3rd and 5th/maybe 4th two drafts later.

It's like buying a top-of-the-line Cessna, having it unexpectedly break down in the middle of a flight over the Pacific, crashing down an a deserted island, and then celebrating when a solitary old man in a row boat happens by to rescue you. I'm mean, sure you're getting rescued... sort of, but now you're gonna have to live with the shame of your colossal mistake.

I don't know if you heard or not but the guy who has to live with that shame is no longer the GM of the Jets. Just an fyi

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, jetlaw said:

This is a steal. Almost as good as when the chiefs gave us draft picks for herm Edwards.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Didn't we turn that into Leon Washington? 

[Eaton Beaver]

1 hour ago, NYDreamer said:

Leonard Williams will become Reggie White for the Giants.  It is just our luck

I will take that bet....

[Spoot-Face]

45 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I don't know if you heard or not but the guy who has to live with that shame is no longer the GM of the Jets. Just an fyi

We, as fans, are still here.

Just an fyi

[Eaton Beaver]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

He wouldn’t of been a bad pick but he wouldn’t of been a smart pick. They should of went offense. They definitely shouldn’t of drafted another DT.  He’s also overrated on this board. He’s a good situational passrusher but that’s it, he disappears in games and a good team will nullify him. 
 

What else you got? 

Well, we haven't had a situational pass rusher since Abraham,,,did you watch the Jaguars game,,,absolutely no pressure,,the entire game, so yes, Josh Allen would have been a good pick, based on need,,,,

[choon328]

9 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

We, as fans, are still here.

Just an fyi

If you feel shame for something a team that you're not connected to in any way shape or form except being a fan you probably need to take a step back and reassess things. 

[New York Mick]

6 minutes ago, Eaton Beaver said:

Well, we haven't had a situational pass rusher since Abraham,,,did you watch the Jaguars game,,,absolutely no pressure,,the entire game, so yes, Josh Allen would have been a good pick, based on need,,,,

Yea it would of been brilliant, he’d help Darnold our big time. Blocking, getting first downs, you know moving the chains all the things this team doesn’t have. At least he’d start on this since it’s so bad

 

[Jetsfan80]

I don't know if you heard or not but the guy who has to live with that shame is no longer the GM of the Jets. Just an fyi

No, we’re left to deal with it. He gets to spend the next several years counting all the money he stole from the Johnson’s.