Leonard Williams traded to the Giants

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I agree, the Jets got something for nothing here, and the high 3rd round pick is nothing to sneeze at.

What I don't agree with is the idea the Giants got fleeced here.

I think both sides got a fair deal.

I just looked at Jason's site, and yeah, the Giants can comfortably franchise him for sure. Whether that would be a particularly good use of their resources with a decent amount of young talent on that line already and a bunch of holes elsewhere isn't something I'm especially knowledgeable about.

[JoJoTownsell1]

13 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

If you possess something worth $50 and sell it for $200, you are in fact a genius negotiator.

Exactly

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I agree.

 

The only argument most had was that you were complaining because Williams was a 1st round pick like that should play into the negotiations. 
 

Could you imagine the Joe Douglas telling Gettleman "Yeah, I know Williams is worth X but the last GM drafted him really high so please give us more compensation?"

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Until/unless the $50 thing you traded away suddenly plays like a $800 thing.

And the $200 you got is traded for $100,000,000,000,000 in currency from Zimbabwe.

But as folks have said, to them, these after effects do not matter, in the same way the costs before hand do not matter.

So yes, as they see it, it's a great trade.  So cool.

There we should all agree. If Williams turns out to be the next Aaron Donald on the Giants then this was a bad trade. But that's not how you judge a trade today since that argument could be made for every trade. 

What if we trade Robby Anderson for a 2nd round pick and he turns out to be a HOF player?
What if we trade Trumaine Johnson and he turns it around and carries a team to a SB? 

Maybe we should only trade players for 1st round picks because you never know how good they may play on another team. 

[Creepy Lurker]

41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol so he just made it up?  

Well to be fair, the media is ridiculous. I believe it though since Leo sucks and that was a great deal for the Jets. 

[jetgreen13]

4 hours ago, Mo Lew said:

What if Leo gets 3 sacks next game? 

yeah, not caring..

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The only argument most had was that you were complaining because Williams was a 1st round pick like that should play into the negotiations. 

IMO, it should play into how we feel, and if we think it's worth gloating/bragging/claims of "fleecing" etc.

Quote

Could you imagine the Joe Douglas telling Gettleman "Yeah, I know Williams is worth X but the last GM drafted him really high so please give us more compensation?"

Nope.  

Quote

There we should all agree. If Williams turns out to be the next Aaron Donald on the Giants then this was a bad trade. But that's not how you judge a trade today since that argument could be made for every trade.

Then we're back to "any compensation at all makes it a good trade", and I don't think that's a valid evaluation.

Sometimes things take time to evaluate.  Trades like this are one of those things.  So are draft picks.

Quote

What if we trade Robby Anderson for a 2nd round pick and he turns out to be a HOF player?

Then it was probably a bad trade.

Quote

What if we trade Trumaine Johnson and he turns it around and carries a team to a SB?

Then it was probably a bad trade.

What these scenarios really say is "we suck at using talent", which again, is not a reason to gloat when we dump talent.

Conversely, if those guys all suck elsewhere, then the trades are good....presuming we draft better players and don't have to pay more than we got just to replace what we gave away.  I.e. if we turn around and spend a 2nd rounder to get a run stopping D-Linemen in the next draft...

Quote

Maybe we should only trade players for 1st round picks because you never know how good they may play on another team. 

Reductio ad absurdum.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

No, I'm evaluating the totality of the exchange.  

It's almost like folks don't understand that this could be the best deal we'd get (i.e. a good thing generally) and still represent an overall bad thing in totality (the #6 pick being another in a long line of busts, part of why we're sitting borderline talent-less at 1-6, and a #3 pick being good only if used right).

We'll see who we draft.  Lets hope it's a good one.  And lets hope Leo sucks as a Giant.  

It’s not that people don’t understand that. It’s that the bad thing has already happened and isn’t changing.  This is lemonade out of lemons.  No reason you can’t be happy with that.

[Green DNA]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agreed.

It is......if, like I said, he continues to play as poorly as he played here, and if we get something out of those picks we got.  

If Leo pulls an Abraham, or a Farrior, and goes on to a long a productive career for the Giants, and we, in turn, pick Chad Hanson II and ArDarius Stewart II, then I'm sorry, it would be very hard to see this as a "good trade".

We'll see.  Time and perspective will tell the tale.

Nothing is guaranteed.  This is a chance the Jets have to take, just like they did when they drafted Leo.

[JTJet]

12 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

What if we trade Trumaine Johnson and he turns it around and carries a team to a SB?

I can assure you this hypothetical is something no one needs to worry about. 

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Bomberjet said:

That may be true and in retrospect Williams  may have underachieved based on his draft position, but giving him away for a 3 and 5 - look at what the Jets have done with those picks in the past. 

It's not like he has under-performed in the fashion of a Blair Thomas or a  Gholston or a Richardson. He was a viable starting D Lineman. And only 25 years of age, to boot.

No question the Giants got the better deal.

Wait, which Richardson are you referring to here?  Because if it's Sheldon, he both outperformed Williams and netted more in return.  Not a particularly good comparison for Leo.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It’s not that people don’t understand that. It’s that the bad thing has already happened and isn’t changing.  This is lemonade out of lemons.  No reason you can’t be happy with that.

I'm not unhappy with it.  In point of fact, I advocated for exactly this in the period leading up to this.

I simply don;t see it as something to start waving our collective dicks around over, as was happening when I first commented.

I mean really, is that such an offensive opinion?  That gloating, bragging and dick waving isn't exactly warranted here?

Maybe it is.  /shrug

[FlagmanL11]

I feel bad of the people who bought the new Leonard Williams Jerseys in all three colors.  

[ZachEY]

53 minutes ago, jgb said:

Well obviously now we need a new DL in the first round...

[Eaton Beaver]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

And yet 50% of your posts are you obsessing over my posts.  

I always love it when you tell us only acceptable "right" way to be a fan.  

As expected, you have no idea what you're talking about because you can't read and understand.

Let me say it slowly for your benefit:  The trade is fine.  Leo not working out is not fine.  The bad (Leo not working out) exceeds the good (the consolation prize of a mid-round pick).  I DO NOT CELEBRATE CONSOLATION PRICES LIKE SOME PATHETIC PAVLOV'S DOG.

You certainly will, over and over and over, obsessively stalking my every post despite knowing I don;t care what you think and have no desire nor interest in an exchange with you.  

Yeah, because I'm famous for not having opinions and keeping them till after the fact.  GTFOH.  

Seems to me you are doing the exact same thing you accuse him of! Geez, you didn't like the picking of Leo with the 6th pick, many of us didn't like it either. He turned out to be an average player, we didn't like that either. But today we are happy to get anything for him, no matter where he was drafted, that's just a fact. Don't worry, I am not going to "stalk your every post", because after reading a few of your posts, I deem them all to be delusional. Now, please do not stalk me, find something more productive to do.

[papz187]

Wait, which Richardson are you referring to here?  Because if it's Sheldon, he both outperformed Williams and netted more in return.  Not a particularly good comparison for Leo.

Exactly. Sheldon Richardson was far and away a better pick and player than Leonard Williams. He made way more of an impact in the passing game the Leo, and netted a higher return when traded.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Pac]

3 hours ago, Dcat said:

"Lowest return"?  LOL.  too funny,  Dude, Jets got way over-value for this JAG.  

Macc got more for Sheldon who had way more red flags.  This was an acceptable return but many of you acting like this was a robbery is kind of a joke.  No teams thinks Leonard is a JAG or a flop or whatever else the small sect of Jet fans say he is.  He's a good but unnecessary player for this team. 

 

[Ohhthepain]

Francesa absolutely losing his mind over the trade lmao. Makes no sense for the giants at all.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

Macc got more for Sheldon who had way more red flags.  This was an acceptable return but many of you acting like this was a robbery is kind of a joke.  No teams thinks Leonard is a JAG or a flop or whatever else the small sect of Jet fans say he is.  He's a good but unnecessary player for this team. 

 

Every team has solid defensive linemen. Leonard Williams probably isn’t the second best DL on the Giants right now. He’s an ok player. If he was in the draft next year, he’s probably worth a fourth round pick as a stout DE who doesn’t rush the passer. 

[Pac]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

LOL

@Pac @Pac @Pac

Why are you signaling me when I predicted this trade weeks ago?  Pretty sure I said a 3rd and a 5th right off the bat. 

[Gen X Jet]

1 minute ago, Ohhthepain said:

Francesa absolutely losing his mind over the trade lmao. Makes no sense for the giants at all.

Hog Mollies

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm not unhappy with it.  In point of fact, I advocated for exactly this in the period leading up to this.

I simply don;t see it as something to start waving our collective dicks around over, as was happening when I first commented.

I mean really, is that such an offensive opinion?  That gloating, bragging and dick waving isn't exactly warranted here?

Maybe it is.  /shrug

I think you’re exaggerating the gloating/bragging/dick waving.  This is a Jets discussion forum.  The Jets did something positive today (a rare treat), and people are discussing it positively.  It’s not like we’re over on a Giants site telling them how stupid they are.  It’s not like the Bills fans who come here to tell us things we all already know and pretend that Josh Allen is good.  I’m just not seeing the absurd victory laps.  We made a good trade today.  It’s a shame that it was a good trade, but it was.  So, I am happy about that.

[JetPotato]

40 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I agree.

Until/unless the $50 thing you traded away suddenly plays like a $800 thing.

And the $200 you got is traded for $100,000,000,000,000 in currency from Zimbabwe.

But as folks have said, to them, these after effects do not matter, in the same way the costs before hand do not matter.

So yes, as they see it, it's a great trade.  So cool.

How Leo plays over the remaining 2 months of his contract are releveant how? He could be the best defensive tackle of all time for the remainder of this year and still would have been of no value to the Jets at this stage of the rebuild.

[Bleedin Green]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm not unhappy with it.  In point of fact, I advocated for exactly this in the period leading up to this.

I simply don;t see it as something to start waving our collective dicks around over, as was happening when I first commented.

I mean really, is that such an offensive opinion?  That gloating, bragging and dick waving isn't exactly warranted here?

Maybe it is.  /shrug

So people should be pleased with the move, but only the exact amount of pleased you deem permissible to have?  Seems reasonable.

Of course, none of the so-called "bragging" is being done by Douglas nor anyone else involved with the Jets, but let's not have that reality get in the way of anything.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Bomberjet said:

That may be true and in retrospect Williams  may have underachieved based on his draft position, but giving him away for a 3 and 5 - look at what the Jets have done with those picks in the past. 

It's not like he has under-performed in the fashion of a Blair Thomas or a  Gholston or a Richardson. He was a viable starting D Lineman. And only 25 years of age, to boot.

No question the Giants got the better deal.

Do not see it. He is exceedingly average and was being outplayed by a lightly regarded UDFA in Phillips (who gets better every week) Because of his draft status he will get a contract not remotely in tune with his ability. Saving those future $$ is a bonus for the Jets as well. 

If MacDickhead was still here, he would have signed Leo to a big second contract. This is a very encouraging move by Douglas which bodes well for the future.

It is really incredible how BAD McDickwad was at drafting and just fundamentally NOT understanding how a modern NFL roster is built. He was just inept. Outside of drafting Darnold, I am not sure I agreed with almost ANY move the dolt made. 

[Pac]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Every team has solid defensive linemen. Leonard Williams probably isn’t the second best DL on the Giants right now. He’s an ok player. If he was in the draft next year, he’s probably worth a fourth round pick as a stout DE who doesn’t rush the passer. 

So you admit Macc got more for Sheldon.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

So you admit Macc got more for Sheldon.

I think Sheldon was a better player than Leonard Williams.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

It's not about this year anymore.  I want the Jets to protect Sam and show some promise.  I don't really see value in wins anymore at this point.

This team needs a high draft slot and then they need to trade down from it.  Of the 22 starters on O and D, the Jets need AT LEAST 13 new ones.  They also need to improve depth with something like 15 additional guys on the bottom half of the roster.

Winning means something, having players like Sam and Adams get that winning feeling back is much more important than draft position.  If we win a bunch and get to 7-9 it will help us much more than another crapshoot in the top 3 of the draft.  

[peebag]

23 minutes ago, FlagmanL11 said:

I feel bad of the people who bought the new Leonard Williams Jerseys in all three colors.  

Jetsrule doesn't count.

[Pac]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Sheldon was a better player than Leonard Williams.

Sheldon is on his 4th team the last 4 years and has yet to make any kind of significant impact while Leonard is about to get a huge contract.  When he does there will be a new thread talking about how stupid it was to give Leonard Williams $15-16 Mil a year with $60 Mil guaranteed when that's always what he was going to get.

 

[T0mShane]

Just now, Pac said:

Sheldon is on his 4th team the last 4 years and has yet to make any kind of significant impact while Leonard is about to get a huge contract.  When he does there will be a new thread talking about how stupid it was to give Leonard Williams $15-16 Mil a year with $60 Mil guaranteed. 

 

Dave Gettleman gave Nate Solder $50 million dollars 

[fusionCA]

good

cant stand him 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Winning means something, having players like Sam and Adams get that winning feeling back is much more important than draft position.  If we win a bunch and get to 7-9 it will help us much more than another crapshoot in the top 3 of the draft.  

We gave up an extra 3 2nd round picks for Darnold because of wins that ‘meant something.’  Wonder where we’d be today without those winning feelings.  Certainly better off than 3 additional players.

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I think you’re exaggerating the gloating/bragging/dick waving.  This is a Jets discussion forum.  The Jets did something positive today (a rare treat), and people are discussing it positively.  It’s not like we’re over on a Giants site telling them how stupid they are.  It’s not like the Bills fans who come here to tell us things we all already know and pretend that Josh Allen is good.  I’m just not seeing the absurd victory laps.  We made a good trade today.  It’s a shame that it was a good trade, but it was.  So, I am happy about that.

Maybe @Warfish isn't JetNation material.  I mean, if he doesn't want to wave his dick, is he ever going to really fit in? 

[Pac]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Dave Gettleman gave Nate Solder $50 million dollars 

and Joe Douglas begged Ryan Kalil for months to take 10 million dollars to come here and be one of the worst centers in the league.  If not THE worst.

All GM's make mistakes.

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Dave Gettleman gave Nate Solder $50 million dollars 

$62 million, but who is counting? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Maybe @Warfish isn't JetNation material.  I mean, if he doesn't want to wave his dick, is he ever going to really fit in? 

Hot takes about lukewarm takes and lukewarm takes about hot takes. It's a niche, I guess.