Eli Manning to Retire on Friday

[peekskill68]

59 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Sonny Jurgensen did what Namath was doing in 1961 only better.  People think 4,000 yards wow.  In 1961 Sonny threw for 3723 with 32 TD's and averaged 8.9 yards per attempt.  His Y/C was 15.8.  

Jurgensen and Unitas were the pioneers.  Namath radically changed football marketing and star power. 

Don't get me wrong, I loved him.  Favorite player by a mile.  It's just not true that he was the one who revolutionized the game.  

There was a progression from Otto Graham to Unitas Jurgensen and Namath.  Namath was the face of the AFL.  His signing and actual flamboyant performance accelerated the change.  

Your right field metrics were completely different but Namath wasn't the only QB driving the ball down the field.

Without the SB win I'm not sure Namath sniffs the HOF.  

I think where we're not seeing it the same is on what defines a HOF career.  Statistically I agree with you and @slimjasi that Namath was marginal as a HOF level player.  I respect your views. But try to think about living in the 60's before the AFL-NFL merger was completed.  You just had the old school Packers demolish the Chiefs and Raiders in SB I and II. The country's falling apart over Vietnam, MLK, RFK. etc. You have this old school team the Giants playing in the same town sucking out all the oxygen (do you think the network would have ever cut away from a Giants game in progress to show a movie about some little Swiss girl?). And here comes Namath.  Without him, IMO the AFL would have continued to be seen like a glorified USFL with the merger based more on trying to control the cost of signing players vs. a true merger of equals.

I guess I just feel some of the historical things in his particular case are special...

[Beerfish]

He has a good case to go in even without the superbowls, the two superbowls and all those playoff wins clinch it.

[southparkcpa]

55 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I think where we're not seeing it the same is on what defines a HOF career.  Statistically I agree with you and @slimjasi that Namath was marginal as a HOF level player.  I respect your views. But try to think about living in the 60's before the AFL-NFL merger was completed.  You just had the old school Packers demolish the Chiefs and Raiders in SB I and II. The country's falling apart over Vietnam, MLK, RFK. etc. You have this old school team the Giants playing in the same town sucking out all the oxygen (do you think the network would have ever cut away from a Giants game in progress to show a movie about some little Swiss girl?). And here comes Namath.  Without him, IMO the AFL would have continued to be seen like a glorified USFL with the merger based more on trying to control the cost of signing players vs. a true merger of equals.

I guess I just feel some of the historical things in his particular case are special...

Namath is the most important single  player in the history of the NFL.  It’s that simple in my view .  I hate to agree with naysayers but  he is not a HOF player based on stats per se....  but he is a HOF NFL player.    For without him, the NFL is different.  

[73andMe]

Having been an avid Jets' fan all my life that strongly supports Joe Klecko's

HOF induction, I say that Eli Manning belongs in the HOF.  With all do respect

to  HOFers Joe Namath and Y.A. Tittle , Eli is the best QB to come out of the highly

competitive NY market, and with 2 Super Bowls and a bunch of other  impressive

stats that outweigh his downsides. Being a real gentleman doesn't hurt either!

[jgb]

The Slayer of the Evil Empire is in my personal HOF. I think he will get into the actual HOF but if he does not, it will do nothing to diminish the admiration I have for Eli.

As stated several times in this thread, he saved us all from having to endure the annual media tour of aging Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Tom Brady, Teddy Bruschi, and Belly after the last undefeated team falls each season. You cannot put a value on that.

[southparkcpa]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

The Slayer of the Evil Empire is in my personal HOF. I think he will get into the actual HOF but if he does not, it will do nothing to diminish the admiration I have for Eli.

As stated several times in this thread, he saved us all from having to endure the annual media tour of aging Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Tom Brady, Teddy Bruschi, and Belly after the last undefeated team falls each season. You cannot put a value on that.

Here in NC at the gym I asked this question aty random to several people. None of whom are NYers...  they all quickly said YES, he is a HOFer.  Absent the bias we see in Jets fans, I think the average fan of the game puts him in. 

[playtowinthegame]

A few lucky plays in a Super Bowl doesn't warrant admission to the hall of fame. Should we put David Tyree in the hall of fame too? For his career Eli was an above average quarterback but not worthy of being considered a hall of fame quarterback. 

[Jetfan13]

Eli: “What is this?”

Daniel Jones: “A picture of the play Jason Garrett drew up”

Eli: “It’s just a picture of him clapping though...”

Daniel Jones: “I know”

Eli: “I’m gonna retire Daniel. I’m out”

[Biggs]

24 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

A few lucky plays in a Super Bowl doesn't warrant admission to the hall of fame. Should we put David Tyree in the hall of fame too? For his career Eli was an above average quarterback but not worthy of being considered a hall of fame quarterback. 

In two 4 game playoff runs he had 15 Td's and 2 Int's.  He was great. 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Here in NC at the gym I asked this question aty random to several people. None of whom are NYers...  they all quickly said YES, he is a HOFer.  Absent the bias we see in Jets fans, I think the average fan of the game puts him in. 

The little brother is always the big brother’s harshest critic.

Jets fans should understand more than any other team the power of a defining win in elevating a QB into the HOF.

Ending the Pats undefeated season is the biggest SB story in my lifetime.

 

[Biggs]

12 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I think where we're not seeing it the same is on what defines a HOF career.  Statistically I agree with you and @slimjasi that Namath was marginal as a HOF level player.  I respect your views. But try to think about living in the 60's before the AFL-NFL merger was completed.  You just had the old school Packers demolish the Chiefs and Raiders in SB I and II. The country's falling apart over Vietnam, MLK, RFK. etc. You have this old school team the Giants playing in the same town sucking out all the oxygen (do you think the network would have ever cut away from a Giants game in progress to show a movie about some little Swiss girl?). And here comes Namath.  Without him, IMO the AFL would have continued to be seen like a glorified USFL with the merger based more on trying to control the cost of signing players vs. a true merger of equals.

I guess I just feel some of the historical things in his particular case are special...

I remember it well.  I loved Joe, I loved the drinking the girls the fur coat all of it.  The reality is Namath wasn't Ali.  Namath was Mickey Mantle. He was an immensely talented athlete.  The truth that not many fans will appreciate is he could have been much better.  He was constantly drunk, he didn't train like he should have, he's priorities weren't all about football.   I give him a lot of slack because he was also constantly in pain.  He was damaged goods when he came into the league and he was targeted by every team he played.  Namath was one of the toughest athletes to ever wear the uniform.  

He wasn't taking a knee, he didn't get drafted and refuse to go.  He was an icon because in the 60's the culture was changing and he embraced NYC during that change.  There is no comparison to Joe giving up ownership in Bachelor's 3 and Ali refusing to go to Vietnam.

“My conscience won’t let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America,”  “And shoot them for what? They never called me ***, they never lynched me, they didn’t put no dogs on me, they didn’t rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. … Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.”

[playtowinthegame]

23 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In two 4 game playoff runs he had 15 Td's and 2 Int's.  He was great. 

Hall of Fame bases it on the whole career. Eli was not once an all-pro. 117-117 career record. Led Giants to the playoffs 6 times in 16 seasons. He has a career passer rating of 84.1, which ranks 45th all time - tied with Joe Flacco. If the writers let Eli in they're lowering the bar. The Jets fan in me appreciates Eli stopping the Patriots two times in the big game, but he's not a hall of fame quarterback. He'll join the likes of Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, and Ken Anderson as the top 5 quarterbacks not in the hall of fame. 

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Hall of Fame bases it on the whole career. Not once an all-pro. 117-117 career record. Led Giants to the playoffs 6 times in 16 seasons. He has a career passer rating if 84.1, which ranks 45th. If the writers let Eli in they're lowering the bar. The Jets fan in me appreciates him stopping the Patriots two times in the big game, but he's not a hall of fame quarterback. He'll join the likes of Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, and Ken Anderson as the top 5 quarterbacks not in the hall of fame. 

HOF is based on whatever the committe decide is HOF.  Personally the only HOF player I ever saw who played on a NY NFL team was Lawrence Taylor.  He's not the only one in. 

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

HOF is based on whatever the committe decide is HOF.  Personally the only HOF player I ever saw who played on a NY NFL team was Lawrence Taylor.  He's not the only one in. 

117 losses...only Vinny Testaverde (90-123-1) has lost more as a starter. Mr. 500 is the epitome of an average quarterback. He's NOT Hall of Fame worthy.

[Jet_Engine1]

On 1/23/2020 at 8:16 AM, Biggs said:

If you make the argument that Eli shouldn't go in Namath should be removed.  The two runs he had were absolutely great. When you play great on the big stage and win a SB that's the absolute zenith of NFL football.  That's the goal of every player before the season starts.

He had two incredible runs where he lifted his game against the best.  HOF player.

Wedge and Porkins disapprove this post. 

[joewilly12]

So no NY Jets fan would take a QB like Eli Maning or what he did for the NY Giants the past 15 years. 

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

So no NY Jets fan would take a QB like Eli Maning or what he did for the NY Giants the past 15 years. 

I would take an average quarterback if it meant winning 2 Super Bowls. As a franchise we've already won 1 Super Bowl with a quarterback who threw 47 more ints than touchdowns and finished his career as a starter 1 game under 500. Who are we to stick our noses up. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, playtowinthegame said:

I would take an average quarterback if it meant winning 2 Super Bowls. As a franchise we've already won 1 Super Bowl with a quarterback who threw 47 more ints than touchdowns and finished his career as a starter 1 game under 500. Who are we to stick our noses up. 

51 years and counting..................

Joe Namath did something no other QB has been able to do in 51 years...............

[Biggs]

26 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Hall of Fame bases it on the whole career. Eli was not once an all-pro. 117-117 career record. Led Giants to the playoffs 6 times in 16 seasons. He has a career passer rating of 84.1, which ranks 45th all time - tied with Joe Flacco. If the writers let Eli in they're lowering the bar. The Jets fan in me appreciates Eli stopping the Patriots two times in the big game, but he's not a hall of fame quarterback. He'll join the likes of Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, and Ken Anderson as the top 5 quarterbacks not in the hall of fame. 

Joe Namath's record as a starting QB.  62-63-4 

Warren Moon 102-101

Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Sonny Jurgensen 69-73-7

Ken Stabler is in the HOF and deserves to be.  96-49-1

[playtowinthegame]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

51 years and counting..................

Joe Namath did something no other QB has been able to do in 51 years...............

At least were not Browns fans. 

[playtowinthegame]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Joe Namath's record as a starting QB.  62-63-4 

Warren Moon 102-101

Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Sonny Jurgensen 69-73-7

Ken Stabler is in the HOF and deserves to be.  96-49-1

Eli is definitely joining the best quarterbacks to NOT get in the hall of fame club. Congratulations to him. 

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Eli is definitely joining the best quarterbacks to NOT get in the hall of fame club. Congratulations to him. 

If we live long enough will find out.  It's definitely debatable.  

[SAR I]

58 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Hall of Fame bases it on the whole career. Eli was not once an all-pro. 117-117 career record. Led Giants to the playoffs 6 times in 16 seasons. He has a career passer rating of 84.1, which ranks 45th all time - tied with Joe Flacco. If the writers let Eli in they're lowering the bar. The Jets fan in me appreciates Eli stopping the Patriots two times in the big game, but he's not a hall of fame quarterback. He'll join the likes of Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, Ken Stabler, and Ken Anderson as the top 5 quarterbacks not in the hall of fame. 

This. 

SAR I

[jgb]

14 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I guess I just feel some of the historical things in his particular case are special...

Stopping one of (the?) greatest offenses ever to prevent the dirtiest franchise in sport from becoming the second (and only since 1972) undefeated team wasn’t historical??

[shawn306]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

In two 4 game playoff runs he had 15 Td's and 2 Int's.  He was great. 

And 7 of those 8 games were on the road

[peekskill68]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Stopping one of (the?) greatest offenses ever to prevent the dirtiest franchise in sport from becoming the second (and only since 1972) undefeated team wasn’t historical??

Historical?  Yes.  Iconic and landscape altering? No.

[Wonderboy]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:00 PM, Welp said:

Give the man his due for preventing the Pats from getting 2 more championships ?

Take that Tommy Boy.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Historical?  Yes.  Iconic and landscape altering? No.

You said historic. Using your word bro. But if you want to move the goalposts, cool, I will play. It was absolutely an iconic and landscape altering win. Imagine the conversation if Pats went all the way.  Their place is history would be carved in granite as only the 72 Fins are now. There would be documentaries, films, annual specials, televised reunions for next 50 years. Imagine that Hell. Preventing something iconic is iconic. Added to that, Eli also has a “normal” SB ring and MVP to pair with it. And he plays for an NFL favored franchise. Face it folks he’s getting in.

Not to mention society and the NFL’s obsession with “firsts,” putting the first two brothers into the HOF is publicity that cannot and will not be resisted.

[BallinPB]

Eli Manning was never an All-Pro player.  4 pro bowls in 16 years.  He never led the league in passing yards or touchdowns but led in interceptions 3 times.  Never has he been considered a top 3 or even 5 QB in all the years he’s played.

His career is being defined by a couple of clutch throws in the biggest games of the year and his career.  
 

While I will sign up for a Jet QB to have that career, I don’t think that it should be a hall of fame career.  Just my opinion.  

 

 

 

[BallinPB]

10 hours ago, Biggs said:

Joe Namath's record as a starting QB.  62-63-4 

Warren Moon 102-101

Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Sonny Jurgensen 69-73-7

Ken Stabler is in the HOF and deserves to be.  96-49-1

I can’t speak on old QBs because I didn’t watch them play of was a fan of the NFL back then.  All I can speak on is was Eli ever a top QB while he played and the answer for me is a simple no.  No person ever thought of Eli as a top 3 or 5 QB in the league.  
 

I’m not a fan of throwing team accomplishments out to benefit a person in an individual accomplishment.  Super Bowl wins should give you a bump getting you into the hall of fame and not be the reason you get in.  

[Biggs]

“It was important for me to go out as a Giant,” Manning explained while flanked by the two Super Bowl trophies that he had helped win. “When you get drafted and come to an organization, that’s always the goal, to stay with one organization your entire career.”

Manning beats Tom Brady again.

[nyjunc]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:22 AM, Apache 51 said:

True. However, he is going in, 7-11 vs. the Eagles btw?

I don't believe he's going to make it, I'm encouraged by what I have been reading since he retired.  He was 10-21 vs Philly (0-2 in playoffs).

On 1/23/2020 at 9:26 AM, Matt39 said:

Aikman played on an all star team, barely had to throw, and rode the wave. Steve Beurlein would come in and the show continued to roll. He was never an all-pro either. There is a zero percent chance Eli doesn’t get in. 

Buerlein started 4 games and he was a good QB.  They happened to win those games.

He's going to struggle getting in when they examine his career. Right now it's everyone loves Eli because he retired but when they have the chance to examine his resume it's going to be very difficult.  If it was really about the all time great players he wouldn't have a prayer but because he's a giant, because he rode his D to 2 SBs, because his name is Manning he has a chance.

 

Aikman made an unofficial all pro team, Eli never even did that.  Eli would be the first to not make a single all pro team.

 

On 1/23/2020 at 9:29 AM, Biggs said:

He didn't turn it over.  He was pounded constantly and never put the ball on the turf.  Good fortune and bad fortune impact every big close game in the NFL.  Guys drop INT's, guys on the O fight off defenders for the ball, balls are tipped.  It's an amazingly stupid argument even for you.

How are you Junc.  Long time.  Happy New year!

Twice SF dropped INTs, that's luck. Both times he threw the ball up for grabs (which he did a lot of back then) and 2 SF defenders collided. In the second half and OT he led 2 scoring drives that both began deep in SF territory thanks to TOs.

 

I'm good, how are you?

[nyjunc]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:44 AM, Dcat said:

I just don't understand the ripping of Eli Manning.  Great career.  I only wish the jets had a franchise QB during the last 20 years to take us to a couple of Championships.  No, instead we get a dog named Sanchez whose sucktitude and bindness on the field screwed us.  So from this Jets fan, at least, congrats to Eli on a terrific career!

He's basically Sanchez with more talent around him.  Both were TO prone QBs who could elevate in big moments.  The Jets D's were better regular season D's but the Giants D's were better in the playoffs.  Switch the QBs and the team results are likely the same.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for the greatest players of all time, Eli was never a top QB, never one of the best of his generation so how can he be enshrined as one of the best of all time?

On 1/23/2020 at 9:49 AM, Biggs said:

I would have no problem with Plunkett going into the HOF.  I don't agree he's career was anything like Eli's but he did have two SB runs and that's worthy of consideration.  He was SB MVP only once.  Marcus Allen won it the second time he won as a starting QB.

Plunkett was left for dead, got off the bench and played great.  I have a ton of respect for Plunkett.  Most guys would have washed out after what he was put through. 

 

Eli played longer but they were both .500 QBs, and had a similar percentage of top 5 finishes in major categories.  Plunkett actually did more for the raiders than Eli did for the Giants.

On 1/23/2020 at 12:05 PM, Philc1 said:

People are actually arguing Eli isn’t a hall of famer?

He's not.  He's never made a single all pro team whether official or unofficial, he's never received a league MVP vote, he's only earned 2 PBs, he's never led a major category other than interceptions which he did 3 times.  While he was good in the 2 SB runs both were led by great defense, he had one high scoring game in his playoff career (11 at GB), his D was great throughout both runs.

He was never considered one of the top QBs in the league, he was never great so I ask again- if he was not one of the best of his generation how is he one of the best of all time?

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I don't believe he's going to make it, I'm encouraged by what I have been reading since he retired.

He's going to struggle getting in when they examine his career. Right now it's everyone loves Eli because he retired but when they have the chance to examine his resume it's going to be very difficult.  If it was really about the all time great players he wouldn't have a prayer but because he's a giant, because he rode his D to 2 SBs, because his name is Manning he has a chance.

If CuMar is in, Eli will 100% be in. Compilers or not, they both finished in the top 10 in important stats for their position.

Start with that. Then add the playoff games in which he put up extraordinary efficiency numbers, including two runs against the greatest dynasty the sport has ever seen. He’s the only QB to ever beat an 18 win team. 

Then add his last name.

Then remember that this is the hall of fame, not the hall of excellence. 

Then add that he retired in a year where there are no other-sure fire HoFers retiring except Luke Keuchly. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers would all hurt his candidacy, but none of them will be eligible when Eli will be.

Add in some more of “he prevented two more pats SBs” for taste.

Add that no one’s going to care or remember who dropped ints against him or that he struggled for the first 40 mins of his playoff games (which isn’t even true). They’ll remember that when the chips were down, he got it done in the playoffs against inner-circle HoFers like Favre, Rodgers, and Brady twice.

There’s your recipe for why he will definitely be inducted. 

[Lizard King]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:00 PM, Welp said:

Give the man his due for preventing the Pats from getting 2 more championships ?

Strahan, Osi and Tuck would like a word with you. But I will credit him for playing a big game with poise and executing.