A thread for Gase supporters

[kdels62]

Honestly, I like Gase as a HC. Last year we were less penalized, had less clock issues and put up a better record than we had had in 3 years. All of that with terrible injuries and having to undo years of bad management. 

I have been very meh on Darnold since before we drafted him. 

All that being said their fates are tied together and even though I can’t blame Gase for missing wide receivers and I can’t blame Gase for Darnold’s mechanics, I can blame him for continued offensive failures. If the offense doesn’t improve (regardless of Darnold’s failings and the team’s lack of talent)then Gase has to be out.
 

[ZachEY]

25 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

the best QB prospect we've had since Pennington.

Nobody tell him...

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well said.  Cant argue any of it.

Adam Gase didnt miss wide open receivers.  Adam Gase didnt throw another stupid pick down 2 scores.  Adam Gase didnt take a UDFA rookie style sack when trying to lead a comeback.  he didnt fumble a kick off or on a screenplay, missed tackles, back breaking penalties, etc.

All that said, he's terrible and cant be the guy to lead this team going forward after this season.

JD needs to pick his guy and we need to do this right. GM picks HC, GM/HC pick QB, GM/HC build around QB.  GM/HC/QB die together.  The last 3 ways this team went through a change were absolutely moronic. 

 

 

I'm sorry your Sam Darnold Boner Pants will be headed to Goodwill.

[jetstream23]

50 minutes ago, Y3k said:

I had hopes for Gase yesterday but his play calling is too predictable. There is no miss direction, there is no play action, no roll outs for Darnold. No easy "gimme" plays to get the QB into a rythm. 

This is what I thought as well.  Very disappointing that the Jets looked so vanilla on offense.  It became even more clear when I watched the Rams-Cowboys game last night.  I'd appreciate some confirmation (or not) on this but it seems like the style of offense McVay runs in LA is what Gase wants to do.  It's an outside-zone running scheme that has the RB heading straight for the hole where the play is designed.  The passing game has lots of short and intermediate routes with Crowder sized guys like Kupp being schemed open.  The Rams don't look like a team trying to tee up the long ball for big deep-running WRs all game....they take some shots but that's not what they're about.  Also, pretty heavy TE involvement.

So, the question is this... Why didn't Gase have lots of motion, creative schemes, misdirection, etc.?

In my mind there can really only be two reasons (neither of which are good).

1. The Jets lined up 8 guys with Sam Darnold who were all different from last year.  Darnold, Bell and Crowder played together last season.....All 5 OLinemen were new, Herndon was back from 2018, and both Perriman and Hogan were new.  Against a stout Buffalo defense that returned about 8 starters Gase may have intentionally tried to keep things simple in Week 1 for his new offense.  A lack of time to prepare, having Perriman miss several weeks injured, having Hogan join the team less than 2 months ago could all be factors....but that's no reason that some more creativity couldn't be employed.

2. How integral was Le'Veon Bell to both the rushing and passing game plan?  His injury apparently took place at the end of the 1st Half, so the lack of offensive production prior to then is not applicable, but missing Bell for the entire 2nd Half and having only 2 running backs (Frank Gore, Josh Adams) was not ideal.

The Jets were a team yesterday that looked like they hadn't practiced much together or played any preseason games together.  And, they hadn't.  The question is whether Gase was so afraid of the Buffalo D that he didn't want to add any complexity that could cause a missed blocking assignment, false start or other issues.  We saw the timing was off in the passing game from the beginning.  Maybe Gase new his team could barely handle straight-forward, vanilla scheming.  That's a fail on the HC and the roster builder for lack of preparation and contingency planning.

[CTM]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I’m by no means a “Gase Supporter” but I am realistic about the team, which leaves me in the same position I was in with Bowles.

No one is winning with this team.  The QB sucks, the WRs suck, the RB sucks, the defense sucks.

We spent 4 high picks on a QB too scared to throw at the combine and he’s the same, limited, reckless player he was in college.

We spent the 3rd overall pick on a DT who already... already looks to be a massive bust.

The huge FA overspend will have played 1 game in two seasons.

We’ve been the leagues worst drafting team for a decade, and that’s not hyperbole, there’s actual data to support it.  The damage done by Maccagnan is going to take years to undo.

The average NFL fan could name three players on this team, two long past third prime RBs and a bad QB.

If there was an expansion draft, there’s no one besides this years draft class, and maybe... maybe Maye, you’d hate to lose.  You’d literally beg a team to take last years #3 overall pick.

So, am I a Gase fan?  Of course not.  I hated the hire.  But if the opponent had to tell us their plays in advance, I’m still not sure we’re a playoff team.

Can Joe Douglas draft well?  Can he find a QB?  Can he avoid overpays?  These are the only questions that speak to our success.  Gase is irrelevant.  Blaming him is wishful thinking that this all could be better with one change, and better quickly.  It can’t, and it won’t.  The situation is that bad.

^^ bravo.. couldn't have said it better.

The problem is Idzik/Mac first and foremost. Remains to be seen if Douglass can undo the damage but it's an absolute sin they let Mac run last years offseason. One of th emost inexplicable moves I've seen a franchise make. The Johnsons are the issue really

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I'm sorry your Sam Darnold Boner Pants will be headed to Goodwill.

lol it's very disappointing, they were so freaking comfortable. 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, CTM said:

^^ bravo.. couldn't have said it better.

The problem is Idzik/Mac first and foremost. Remains to be seen if Douglass can undo the damage but it's an absolute sin they let Mac run last years offseason. One of th emost inexplicable moves I've seen a franchise make. The Johnsons are the issue really

This franchise is literally at ground zero.  Who are the exciting young players on this team?  Austin?  Becton? 

It's as talent ridden as I've ever seen it.

 

 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Honestly, I like Gase as a HC. Last year we were less penalized, had less clock issues and put up a better record than we had had in 3 years. All of that with terrible injuries and having to undo years of bad management. 

I have been very meh on Darnold since before we drafted him. 

All that being said their fates are tied together and even though I can’t blame Gase for missing wide receivers and I can’t blame Gase for Darnold’s mechanics, I can blame him for continued offensive failures. If the offense doesn’t improve (regardless of Darnold’s failings and the team’s lack of talent)then Gase has to be out.
 

This is the key point.  In fact, the three most important individuals in the organization are intertwined here....The QB, the HC, the GM.

IF things don't get better and the season is a fail then I think you could make the argument that Darnold couldn't succeed with two different HCs in two different offensive systems so why should he get a third try?  You could also argue that Gase underperformed in Miami and accepted the job with the Jets after having seen a full year of tape on 2018 Darnold and that Gase WANTED to coach Sam and knew that Darnold was locked in here for at least the next 3 years after his rookie season.  So, why should this coach get a new QB?

But then you have Douglas.  He is playing the long game in building this roster.  With $50M in Cap space he's kept his wallet in his pocket despite glaring holes and deficiencies at everywhere from pass rusher and CB to WR.  And, there were/are guys available in FA that Joe could have added.  Not only didn't he add, he sent the team's best defender to Seattle and replaced a WR2 in Robby Anderson with another WR2 in Perriman but uses him to check the WR1 box.  He also plugged a last minute WR hole with this year's version of Ryan Khalil (Chris Hogan). So we're stuck with an almost unsolvable puzzle....it's like having one equation with 2 unknowns that you're trying to solve for....

1. Can Douglas evaluate Adam Gase while he coaches a mediocre roster that has many new faces and multiple injuries?

2. Can Douglas evaluate Darnold and determine if the deficiency is with Darnold, with Gase, with the other personnel....or with all three?

3. Can Douglas look at what's happening on the field and accurately grade the HC, the QB, and the rest of the roster at the same time?  It's almost like a vaccine trial - What's the control group?

 

[sec101row23]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

This franchise is literally at ground zero.  Who are the exciting young players on this team?  Austin?  Becton? 

It's as talent ridden as I've ever seen it.

 

 

This. This. This. This.  It’s arguably the worst roster in the league.   I urge everyone to look through the rosters around the league and tell me one that is worse.  It flat out sucks, it’s the most un-interesting team to watch.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

This. This. This. This.  It’s arguably the worst roster in the league.   I urge everyone to look through the rosters around the league and tell me one that is worse.  It flat out sucks, it’s the most un-interesting team to watch.

So bad. 

It's crazy, we have more 1st round picks on offense than we do on defense. 

Offense; Becton, Perriman, Darnold.  

Defense: Q. Will. 

For a team that has basically exclusively drafted defense, that is unreal.

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

So bad. 

It's crazy, we have more 1st round picks on offense than we do on defense. 

Offense; Becton, Perriman, Darnold.  

Defense: Q. Will. 

For a team that has basically exclusively drafted defense, that is unreal.

 

 

Don't forget Flacco!

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Y3k said:

I had hopes for Gase yesterday but his play calling is too predictable. There is no miss direction, there is no play action, no roll outs for Darnold. No easy "gimme" plays to get the QB into a rythm. 

you can't run play action without a run game.  a run game needs a good oline.  the oline has 4 new players and none of them have played together.  it takes time.  not an excuse just a fact.

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

If your friend hires a 10 year old to change the battery on his Tesla and he fails... do you blame the kid or your friend?

Gase is the 10 year old.  The Johnson organization has for almost 20 years now hired well below average personnel, including REX.

In my 30 year financial career, working with people from all walks of life, I have seen successful people. How they behave, how they think. They are  a unique breed.

They would do a far superior job than Woody or Chris. We are DOOMED!  The Johnsons hire these people because they do not know how to identify talent, determination and the intangible trait of drive and success. They hire morons like Gase, Bowles, MAC, Idzik. Even Herm. When you listen to Herm, he is NOT a win now guy. He sounds very different from Parcells, Gruden, Bellicek etc.

 

Preach

[HessStation]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

So bad. 

It's crazy, we have more 1st round picks on offense than we do on defense. 

Offense; Becton, Perriman, Darnold.  

Defense: Q. Will. 

For a team that has basically exclusively drafted defense, that is unreal.

 

Wow, just wow

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Ugh.  Spider Crickets.

[Y3k]

10 minutes ago, rangerous said:

you can't run play action without a run game.  a run game needs a good oline.  the oline has 4 new players and none of them have played together.  it takes time.  not an excuse just a fact.

actually you can

[rangerous]

i neither love nor hate gase.  he's the coach of the jets and i feel better if they do well (at least the past 10 seasons of futility have numbed the pain somewhat).  at the same time it's important to know that he's really just starting with his team.  last season was mac's sorry excuse for a team and it showed.  this season they replaced a raft of players , especially on offense, and it's going to take time to get them all playing as a team.  and as much as some people felt they should have kept robbie, he wouldn't have helped the way things went.  it all starts with the oline and it's tough to get them all going the same way with the abbreviated practices and the fact that all 5 have never played with each other previous.  consequently they were run blocking very well and they still need to work on pass blocking.  about the only thing that was strange was the receivers not getting open.  were they not running their routes?  i would've expected some 2 te sets or maybe even 3 with wesco as a fullback.  the thing is darnold needed the run game if he had any chance of running play action.

the bottom line is it still starts with oline play.  that will get straightened out in short order.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Mike McCarthy’s Cowboys put up 17 points yesterday with All Pro caliber players at seven different positions on offense, so your alternatives were also very bad. 

Kingsbury and Rhule...?

[predator_05]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

If your friend hires a 10 year old to change the battery on his Tesla and he fails... do you blame the kid or your friend?

Gase is the 10 year old.  The Johnson organization has for almost 20 years now hired well below average personnel, including REX.

In my 30 year financial career, working with people from all walks of life, I have seen successful people. How they behave, how they think. They are  a unique breed.

They would do a far superior job than Woody or Chris. We are DOOMED!  The Johnsons hire these people because they do not know how to identify talent, determination and the intangible trait of drive and success. They hire morons like Gase, Bowles, MAC, Idzik. Even Herm. When you listen to Herm, he is NOT a win now guy. He sounds very different from Parcells, Gruden, Bellicek etc.

 

You have 2 different types of owners in the NFL:

1. Owners who live and breathe the franchise, and are involved in every aspect of it. Much in the same way that a committed entrepreneur would familiarize himself with all the different aspects of his business. They build and maintain strong relationships with competent people, without letting ego get in the way (too often). They don't think highly of themselves for owning the franchise, they see it as their future. they work hard to maintain and improve their team's brand value and on-field product. They celebrate wins, lament losses and enjoy the game. I can imagine somebody like kraft or jerry jones taking out the trash as they leave the facility. Examples: kraft, kroenke, blank, even jerry jones. 

2. Owners who use the franchise to enhance their personal reputation in social circles and burn money. For these guys, results are secondary. Involvement is minimal, decision-making is less strategic and more political; primarily aimed at 'maintaining order'. These owners, not surprisingly, see more turnover and fail to create strong bonds with competent people. They often work through others, and disassociate from poor results. They have very little respect for the game or the fans. I cannot imagine a person like woody johnson discussing football in any great detail, does he even know his players names? Examples: snyder, spanos, brown, and our own woody johnson. 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

McCarthy and Rhule don't come in and ruin the best QB prospect we've had since Pennington. Neither does Bienemy.

McCagnan was going to be shown the door sooner than later regardless of the HC. You're crediting Gase with something that he may have had a hand in and has nothing to do with his role as a HC. ?

I'm not sure the right head coach wouldn't sit Sam for a year or two.  I'm pretty sure the fan base would be very unhappy if that happened. 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, Drums said:

The scariest thing is that no matter who we hire, the product on the field doesn’t really change. Same crap different day. Why?

Leon Hess, Woody & Chris Johnson. 

Thats why.

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Kingsbury and Rhule...?

[ChuckkieB]

41 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

1. Can Douglas evaluate Adam Gase while he coaches a mediocre roster that has many new faces and multiple injuries?

2. Can Douglas evaluate Darnold and determine the deficiency is with Darnold, with Gase, with the other personnel....or with all three?

3. Can Douglas look at what's happening on the field and accurately grade the HC, the QB, and the rest of the roster at the same time?  It's almost like a vaccine trial - What's the control group?

 

These 3 questions are really what it comes down to.  My two cents is that Gase's overall track record as a head coach has already disqualified him from any further mulligans. He is what he is, and that is a bad HC.  He was hired to coach up the franchise QB and bring a new and modern offensive approach to the team and instead has produced a 31st ranked offense and has created more questions about his QB than answers.  Darnold, on the other hand, while inconsistent over two years, has had played well enough in spots (remember, he's still one of the youngest QB's in the league), that he gets the benefit of the doubt by a mile over the coach, and if Douglas has to choose between the two at any point, the smarter play would be to hang his hat on Darnold, not Gase.  We still don't know what Danold is but we know what Gase is.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

45 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This. This. This. This.  It’s arguably the worst roster in the league.   I urge everyone to look through the rosters around the league and tell me one that is worse.  It flat out sucks, it’s the most un-interesting team to watch.

If a person new to football watched a saints, ravens, or chiefs game and then watched a Jets game they would think it’s a different league. 

The hard part for me as a fan is that it’s been so long since I had playoff expectations for this team before the season started. It’s just been a series of waiting for the ownership as they drag their feet on firing their mistakes. 

The part about Gase and coaching staff that bothers me most is I have zero confidence that the young players are getting better on the offensive side of the ball. Yeah, they’re all mostly duds talent wise, but there’s been absolutely no moving the needle at all. 

[Ohhthepain]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

^^ bravo.. couldn't have said it better.

The problem is Idzik/Mac first and foremost. Remains to be seen if Douglass can undo the damage but it's an absolute sin they let Mac run last years offseason. One of th emost inexplicable moves I've seen a franchise make. The Johnsons are the issue really

I think its importance is understated but letting Mac run the 2019 offseason was the nail in the coffin for Darnold, and this teams future for the next few years. It was the most important offseason this team has had in the past 20 years and the Johnsons let Mac piss it all away. Only to fire him after the draft and free agency. Just complete incompetence from the top down.

 

[CTM]

20 minutes ago, Ohhthepain said:

I think its importance is understated but letting Mac run the 2019 offseason was the nail in the coffin for Darnold, and this teams future for the next few years. It was the most important offseason this team has had in the past 20 years and the Johnsons let Mac piss it all away. Only to fire him after the draft and free agency. Just complete incompetence from the top down.

 

Yep. Beyond dumb. WE ended up with what is looking like another bust DT and maybe skunked the entire draft,  an over the hill RB, and an extremely overpaid MLB who has played like 1/2 a game in 2 years.  We went an entire offseason and acquired 1 piece, a slot receiver.. and people wonder why we suck

DISASTER

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yep. Beyond dumb. WE ended up with what is looking like another bust DT and maybe skunked the entire draft,  an over the hill RB, and an extremely overpaid MLB who has played like 1/2 a game in 2 years.  We went an entire offseason an acquired 1 piece, a slot receiver people wonder why we suck

DISASTER

But hey we got Blessuan Austin!

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I have, based on how bad the job was when he took it and who else was willing to take it. Of all those candidates, Gase was the best hire because he, at least, waged a coup and showed Chris Johnson the light. McCarthy doesn’t do that. Rhule doesn’t do that. Gase will be remembered as a bad coach, but he issued a course correction that put the team on positive footing moving forward. 

I agree the candidate pool wasn't great at the time we hired Gase but how is that relevant right now?  Gase has been terrible so far.   Again, if we lose by double-digits to the 49ers this week (which we very well might) then he'll have lost by double-digits in 50% of the games he's coached for us so far (9 of 18).

[SAR I]

47 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I agree the candidate pool wasn't great at the time we hired Gase but how is that relevant right now?  Gase has been terrible so far.   Again, if we lose by double-digits to the 49ers this week (which we very well might) then he'll have lost by double-digits in 50% of the games he's coached for us so far (9 of 18).

Adam Gase is 6-3 over his last 9 games.  Hardly a time to panic.

If Darnold plays well and the D makes a few tackles yesterday, we win the game.

SAR I

[FidelioJet]

I was one of the biggest detractors of the Gase signing...thought it was the worst choice they could have made..

BUT....while he still stinks, it’s really hard to blame him all that much - would be hard for any coach to do anything with this garbage roster.

 

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

If a person new to football watched a saints, ravens, or chiefs game and then watched a Jets game they would think it’s a different league. 

The hard part for me as a fan is that it’s been so long since I had playoff expectations for this team before the season started. It’s just been a series of waiting for the ownership as they drag their feet on firing their mistakes. 

The part about Gase and coaching staff that bothers me most is I have zero confidence that the young players are getting better on the offensive side of the ball. Yeah, they’re all mostly duds talent wise, but there’s been absolutely no moving the needle at all. 

NFL should have a 20 team league and a 12 team league. 

top 4 and bottom 4 change leagues-promotion demotion.

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

Darnold, on the other hand, while inconsistent over two years, has had played well enough in spots (remember, he's still one of the youngest QB's in the league), that he gets the benefit of the doub

fhukk that.

Sam fails to make throws any GOOD NFL QB should make , every single week.

HE KNOWS THIS. And frankly, I think he is sh*tting his pants that he way overestimated himself.

He has a bangaverage arm and seems to think he can maked these all arm throws....

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

NFL should have a 20 team league and a 12 team league. 

top 4 and bottom 4 change leagues-promotion demotion.

Revenue sharing makes that impossible.  The Dallas Cowboys aren't going to be willing to share the same TV dollars with the Jaguars and Bengals teams that are playing in the "B League".  Meanwhile, ratings would drop as well by a change like this.  

[ChuckkieB]

Just now, Losmeister said:

fhukk that.

Sam fails to make throws any GOOD NFL QB should make , every single week.

HE KNOWS THIS. And frankly, I think he is sh*tting his pants that he way overestimated himself.

He has a bangaverage arm and seems to think he can maked these all arm throws....

Uhh....no.  He's sh*tting in his pants because he has pass rushers in his face almost every time he throws the ball, which most of the time is a 3rd and long because the incompetent coach can't seem to figure out how to call plays that gain positive yards on first and second down.  Gase hasn't game planned to Darnold's strengths or the team's deficiencies once in a year plus now.  He is GARBAGE.  Literally the worst HC in the league.