Why I Like what Douglas is doing

[CanadaSteve]

It's easy for me to chastise those who think Douglas did an awful thing by drafting James Morgan with a 4th round pick without explaining why I like the move.  It has been discussed by many people from many angles why the move was terrible.  And it is understandable, given the needs we have.  Here is my perspective on why I liked the move without fully knowing the results. 

Its pick number 48 in the draft, and the Jets are on the clock.  They could have taken Mims there, or they could have taken Chase Claypool.  Maybe they were not sold on him, and its easy to chastise the Jets for not taking Claypool.  But he could be thriving because he came into an ideal situation to thrive, rather than being put on the Jets.  He may not have been ANYWHERE near as effective here.  We will never know.  But Douglas trades the pick, knowing that Claypool, Van Jefferson, Denzel Mims, and moves down 11 picks.  There are three great receivers, and he takes a chance.  If one is left, he takes one, if not, perhaps he moves down more and picks a couple of decent prospect receivers.  But he goes down 11 spots and gets one of the top three remaining.

He then takes the extra pick from Seattle (101), and moves down by trading with the Patriots.  He then gets two picks from them, which turn into James Morgan and Cameron Clark.  By moving down 11 spots and still getting an 1 impactful receiver, he has the potential now to get two more pieces.  He takes Cameron Clark with one pick, who many thought was a GREAT pick so late who could turn into a starting guard at the next level, who has the ability to play other positions if necessary.  Another potential score.  Could he have taken another receiver?  He could have. He could have taken Gabriel Davis, Antonio Gandy-Golden, Joe Reed, Tyler Johnson, Collin Johnson, Quintez Cesphus, John Hightower, Isaiah Coulter, Darnell  Mooney, or K.J Osborn (the next ten receivers picked).  But ask yourself this: Is it better to have one of those receivers, or is it better to have another shot at a QB, because a team lives and dies by its QB play?  And MAYBE Douglas was thinking all along Darnold wasn't his guy, so he was going to take a flyer on an extra pick he got on a QB, knowing that he has to keep drafting them until he gets one.  It is ABSOLUTELY a large boom/bust pick.  But I would rather a GM get a good asset like Mims, move down and accumulate picks, and then take a boom/bust player like Morgan in the 4th, rather than drafting a safety at 6 and then another one in the second round, when a potential HOF QB was staring him in the face and he didn't pull the trigger.  

That is why I like the move.  It could very well blow up in his face.  But no GM bats .1000.  I would rather he take a shot with a bonus 4th round pick than what we have had drafting for the Jets the last decade. 

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

I created a thread absolutely attacking JD for drafting Morgan during the 4th but I'm looking forward to him as our GM moving forward and as much as I loved Jamal Adams, I may have been against trading him to Dallas for a single 17th overall pick but JD moving him for a Khalil Mack type of haul consisting of two 1st rounders and a 3rd while saving a boat load of future available cap space was an absolute A+ trade for our Jets. 

Now he'll have 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks over the next two draft's and if we're able to land 5 Becton/Mims type prospects/talents to build around Trevor Lawrence throughout just the first two rounds throughout the next two draft's? We'll become true AFC East Contenders for many of years to come. 

And if JD uses the available cap space saved from not paying Jamal Adams on two players such as (just say) Allen Robinson/Joe Thuney? Our offense is going to high fly around Trevor Lawrence. 

I was frustrated about the Morgan pick and threw out a hot take but throughout the grand scheme of things he's been A+ thus far and because of Mekhi Becton, Denzel Mims, 4 first round picks and 2 2nd round picks throughout the next two drafts along with A+ available salary cap space I'm actually enjoying this Tank for Trevor 2020 disaster season because I know JD is going to hit a grand slam with our 4 first round picks while using his A+ salary cap space on game changing players to surround Trevor Lawrence with; our future is better than ever before. 

I just can't wait until JD brings in a head coach to replace Gase who shares the same vision as himself (I believe Harbaugh/JD would become a football match made in heaven as two true football minds working alongside one another with the same goal of building around Lawrence). 

[CanadaSteve]

34 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I created a thread absolutely attacking JD for drafting Morgan during the 4th but I'm looking forward to him as our GM moving forward and as much as I loved Jamal Adams, I may have been against trading him to Dallas for a single 17th overall pick but JD moving him for a Khalil Mack type of haul consisting of two 1st rounders and a 3rd while saving a boat load of future available cap space was an absolute A+ trade for our Jets. 

Now he'll have 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks over the next two draft's and if we're able to land 5 Becton/Mims type prospects/talents to build around Trevor Lawrence throughout just the first two rounds throughout the next two draft's? We'll become true AFC East Contenders for many of years to come. 

And if JD uses the available cap space saved from not paying Jamal Adams on two players such as (just say) Allen Robinson/Joe Thuney? Our offense is going to high fly around Trevor Lawrence. 

I was frustrated about the Morgan pick and threw out a hot take but throughout the grand scheme of things he's been A+ thus far and because of Mekhi Becton, Denzel Mims, 4 first round picks and 2 2nd round picks throughout the next two drafts along with A+ available salary cap space I'm actually enjoying this Tank for Trevor 2020 disaster season because I know JD is going to hit a grand slam with our 4 first round picks while using his A+ salary cap space on game changing players to surround Trevor Lawrence with; our future is better than ever before. 

I just can't wait until JD brings in a head coach to replace Gase who shares the same vision as himself (I believe Harbaugh/JD would become a football match made in heaven as two true football minds working alongside one another with the same goal of building around Lawrence). 

I have criticized your criticism multiple times, but believed in the end I was being unfair.  If I am not willing to offer why I liked the move, there really is no reason to tell you or anyone else why I didn't like it!  So, again, it could be a wasted pick.  However, if you are going to get an extra pick every year by moving around, use it on a boom/bust type player.  And until we have a QB, keep picking them.  

[southparkcpa]

Have we ever had a really good GM?????   I give Douglas a pass as of today but I was not thrilled with Tanny or Parcells.  

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Have we ever had a really good GM?????   I give Douglas a pass as of today but I was not thrilled with Tanny or Parcells.  

Tanny started off fast and strong.  D'Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, etc 

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Tanny started off fast and strong.  D'Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, etc 

Agreed...  we can debate it forever but I noted that once. Mangini  left, Tanny sucked.  Terrible with contracts, terrible managing people etc.  He appears to have been influenced HEAVY by the HC at the time as he had NO experience with football talent.  

[munchmemory]

[Bruce Harper]

The Jamal trade was nothing short of amazing. And his first draft is looking very good. He is not batting 1000 but he is off to a promising start.


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[Mo Lew]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

It's easy for me to chastise those who think Douglas did an awful thing by drafting James Morgan with a 4th round pick without explaining why I like the move.  It has been discussed by many people from many angles why the move was terrible.  And it is understandable, given the needs we have.  Here is my perspective on why I liked the move without fully knowing the results. 

Its pick number 48 in the draft, and the Jets are on the clock.  They could have taken Mims there, or they could have taken Chase Claypool.  Maybe they were not sold on him, and its easy to chastise the Jets for not taking Claypool.  But he could be thriving because he came into an ideal situation to thrive, rather than being put on the Jets.  He may not have been ANYWHERE near as effective here.  We will never know.  But Douglas trades the pick, knowing that Claypool, Van Jefferson, Denzel Mims, and moves down 11 picks.  There are three great receivers, and he takes a chance.  If one is left, he takes one, if not, perhaps he moves down more and picks a couple of decent prospect receivers.  But he goes down 11 spots and gets one of the top three remaining.

He then takes the extra pick from Seattle (101), and moves down by trading with the Patriots.  He then gets two picks from them, which turn into James Morgan and Cameron Clark.  By moving down 11 spots and still getting an 1 impactful receiver, he has the potential now to get two more pieces.  He takes Cameron Clark with one pick, who many thought was a GREAT pick so late who could turn into a starting guard at the next level, who has the ability to play other positions if necessary.  Another potential score.  Could he have taken another receiver?  He could have. He could have taken Gabriel Davis, Antonio Gandy-Golden, Joe Reed, Tyler Johnson, Collin Johnson, Quintez Cesphus, John Hightower, Isaiah Coulter, Darnell  Mooney, or K.J Osborn (the next ten receivers picked).  But ask yourself this: Is it better to have one of those receivers, or is it better to have another shot at a QB, because a team lives and dies by its QB play?  And MAYBE Douglas was thinking all along Darnold wasn't his guy, so he was going to take a flyer on an extra pick he got on a QB, knowing that he has to keep drafting them until he gets one.  It is ABSOLUTELY a large boom/bust pick.  But I would rather a GM get a good asset like Mims, move down and accumulate picks, and then take a boom/bust player like Morgan in the 4th, rather than drafting a safety at 6 and then another one in the second round, when a potential HOF QB was staring him in the face and he didn't pull the trigger.  

That is why I like the move.  It could very well blow up in his face.  But no GM bats .1000.  I would rather he take a shot with a bonus 4th round pick than what we have had drafting for the Jets the last decade. 

 

Sad as it is 10% would be an upgrade. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

49 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Tanny started off fast and strong.  D'Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, etc 

Yessir and Bill Parcells may have dropped the ball with Peyton Manning but he started of fast too while taking a 1-15 Rich Kotite 1996 disastrous team into an immediate 9-7 team the following season (week 17 Barry Sanders/Detroit Lions hurt as a kid just 12 years old) but then the Tuna got us his hands back on  Curtis Martin and then BANG a 1998 AFC Championship Game Appearance under Broadway Vinny vs Elway/Davis/Broncos only 2 years later; and Parcells would've led us to a SB 1999 too if not for Vinny tearing his ACL week 1 off a fluke fumbled handoff. 

With 4 first round picks and 2 premium second round picks over the next two drafts JD can do what Parcells did for us and immediately erase and move past this (Adam Gase) potential 0-16 trainwreck into an instant brighter future. 

LT: Mekhi Becton. 1st round pick. 

WR: Denzel Mims. 2nd round. 

Now imagine if JD gets us another 6 Becton/Mims A+ Blue Chip Prospects over the next two drafts due to 4 first rounders & 2 second rounders with our next 6 picks? 

And then just imagine if he's able to move Sam for another 2nd round pick or even another two 3rd rounders to a QB desperate team in order to give us even more draft capital needed in order to truly build around Trevor Lawrence? 

We'll be back in the playoffs come 2022. 

JD is about to absolutely splurge around these young gun draft picks throughout Free Agency over the next two years too and we'll become fully loaded with talent before you know it. 

[HessStation]

This could be a lot less words. 

1. He has credible work experience 

2. He’s drafted well

3. He hasn’t wasted money yet

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Agreed...  we can debate it forever but I noted that once. Mangini  left, Tanny sucked.  Terrible with contracts, terrible managing people etc.  He appears to have been influenced HEAVY by the HC at the time as he had NO experience with football talent.  

If Mangini was as great as you and Tom Shane think why isn't he curranty the GM for some team?? 

[Pac]

Super confused why people on this board always act like the story of James Morgans career is complete when it hasn't even started.

Same guys who wanted to trade Q for a 5th.

[DetroitRed]

I understand the Jets can’t waste draft picks, but Jet fans have made this the most controversial 4th round pick in the history of the league


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[Jetscode1]

James Morgan > Jordan Love

JD so much smarter than the rest when it comes to the QB position.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

This could be a lot less words. 

1. He has credible work experience 

2. He’s drafted well

3. He hasn’t wasted money yet

Where were you to be my editor a few hours ago!

 

[CanadaSteve]

It will be interesting to see how JD uses the draft capital next year to move around and gain even more picks.  Its always great to move around and gain picks the following year to either grab a guy you need, or if it doesn't play out, keep moving picks into the following year to have extras.  The best GM's are only hitting 50 percent of the time.  But man, when you have GM's like ours who have historically hit about 30 percent, and we keep missing with 1st and 2nd rounders....

 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

Super confused why people on this board always act like the story of James Morgans career is complete when it hasn't even started.

Same guys who wanted to trade Q for a 5th.

I’d trade you for a 9th and a hot pocket.,

[maury77]

3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

If Mangini was as great as you and Tom Shane think why isn't he curranty the GM for some team?? 

I don't think Mangini should be a GM, but Tanny did make much better personnel decisions when Mangini was around vs. when Rex was around. I think some of that has to be attributed to the coaching staffs asking for certain players, no?

[Maxman]

The draft is looking good for Douglas so far. Mims is very encouraging. 

You have Q and CJ Mosley as stars that Douglas inherited. A big maybe on CJ but with his contract the Jets seem to have to keep him next year.

There have been misses, Desir, Kalil, but nothing that cripples the team cap wise long term.

[doitny]

4 hours ago, Savage69 said:

If Mangini was as great as you and Tom Shane think why isn't he curranty the GM for some team?? 

exactly. i never get how some people here give Mangini so much love when he did nothing. usually the same people hate on Rex who twice brought us one win away from a SB. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Have we ever had a really good GM?????   I give Douglas a pass as of today but I was not thrilled with Tanny or Parcells.  

Mike Hickey....put together some really strong teams by the 1980’s....drafted Klecko late, drafted Gastineau, exciting skill players Wesley Walker, McNeil.

The year of the Mud Bowl fiasco in Miami I thought the Jets roster was the strongest on paper in the entire NFL....should have won it all that year.  Went into Cincy and totally destroyed Hall of Famer Kenny Anderson and the Bengals, following week into Oakland taking down the Raiders.

 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

The draft is looking good for Douglas so far. Mims is very encouraging. 

You have Q and CJ Mosley as stars that Douglas inherited. A big maybe on CJ but with his contract the Jets seem to have to keep him next year.

There have been misses, Desir, Kalil, but nothing that cripples the team cap wise long term.

Without fully understanding the cap ramifications for next year because of Covid, I don't see Mosley going anywhere for the next two years because of cap hits.  The problem is, the guy will be two years removed from playing.  Is he going to be any good?  

Yep, there have been misses.  But I LOVED going into the first year of Douglas' reign signing a bunch of guys on one year deals during Covid, seeing who would be worth extending, and leaving yourself TONS of cap space in a year which the cap will go down and a bunch of teams will be in cap hell.  That to me shows me more about how this guy is thinking two steps ahead.

Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Green Bay, Arizona....all over the cap next year.  New Orleans is $93 million over the cap!  And we are roughly $80-85 million under while saving $13 million cutting Hendry Anderson and Alex Lewis.  We could renegotiate Crowder and save some money as well!

[Larz]

He had me at highway 77

[Maxman]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Without fully understanding the cap ramifications for next year because of Covid, I don't see Mosley going anywhere for the next two years because of cap hits.  The problem is, the guy will be two years removed from playing.  Is he going to be any good?  

Yep, there have been misses.  But I LOVED going into the first year of Douglas' reign signing a bunch of guys on one year deals during Covid, seeing who would be worth extending, and leaving yourself TONS of cap space in a year which the cap will go down and a bunch of teams will be in cap hell.  That to me shows me more about how this guy is thinking two steps ahead.

Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Green Bay, Arizona....all over the cap next year.  New Orleans is $93 million over the cap!  And we are roughly $80-85 million under while saving $13 million cutting Hendry Anderson and Alex Lewis.  We could renegotiate Crowder and save some money as well!

Yeah my basic cap understanding is most of Mosley's contract this year gets pushed back a year.

That is two years away for him a big concern. He was so good though, my hope is he still makes a huge impact on the defense even though he will turn 29 next summer.

[RutgersJetFan]

They are 7-19 under his watch.

[Defense Wins Championships]

28 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

They are 7-19 under his watch.

Ok and? 

The Jets are 408-510 overall and have only had 19 winning seasons of above .500 football in comparison to 41 losing seasons of .500 and below football 

He just arrived and has only held one draft; let's check out his record once JD has a chance to utilize his 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks along with his A+ available salary cap space over the next two offseasons; before we quit on him and all over 1.5 seasons in comparison to 41 season(s) of losing years. 

I've been tough on JD as a fan myself but at the end of the day I know that my criticism of him has been unfair; he's yet to be given a real chance to win here and has yet been given the opportunity to utilize his draft haul earned from moving #33. 

[RutgersJetFan]

52 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Ok and? 

The Jets are 408-510 overall and have only had 19 winning seasons of above .500 football in comparison to 41 losing seasons of .500 and below football 

He just arrived and has only held one draft; let's check out his record once JD has a chance to utilize his 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks along with his A+ available salary cap space over the next two offseasons; before we quit on him and all over 1.5 seasons in comparison to 41 season(s) of losing years. 

I've been tough on JD as a fan myself but at the end of the day I know that my criticism of him has been unfair; he's yet to be given a real chance to win here and has yet been given the opportunity to utilize his draft haul earned from moving #33. 

is it ever ok to evaluate the jets based on wins and losses asking for a friend

[Gibby]

My hope is when Robert gets back... He sees how ugly this mess was from a far. He decides him and his numbskull brother stay out of it and just sit back and collect the checks. He comes to the realization there is a “ football man” in the building now. Perhaps they let him do what he’s paid to do and run the entire organization.

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Mike Hickey....put together some really strong teams by the 1980’s....drafted Klecko late, drafted Gastineau, exciting skill players Wesley Walker, McNeil.

The year of the Mud Bowl fiasco in Miami I thought the Jets roster was the strongest on paper in the entire NFL....should have won it all that year.  Went into Cincy and totally destroyed Hall of Famer Kenny Anderson and the Bengals, following week into Oakland taking down the Raiders.

 

We have to go back to the 80's???     We suck!!!!!

[slats]

12 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Now imagine if JD gets us another 6 Becton/Mims A+ Blue Chip Prospects over the next two drafts due to 4 first rounders & 2 second rounders with our next 6 picks? 

He also has an extra third next year and whatever he gets when he trades Darnold. I'd expect no less than a second round pick, but seeing some of his trades so far, I could also imagine him landing much more. And he's demonstrated a willingness and ability to trade down and add still more picks. 

All my hope is in the JD basket right now. Once again as a Jet fan, the offseason will be more entertaining than the regular season. I've sorta forgotten what the postseason even is. 

6 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah my basic cap understanding is most of Mosley's contract this year gets pushed back a year.

That is two years away for him a big concern. He was so good though, my hope is he still makes a huge impact on the defense even though he will turn 29 next summer.

Just looking quickly, next year his entire $6M salary in guaranteed, but that's still the cheapest year on the contract (probably had visions of extending Sam this year). But at that number, it makes sense for the Jets to hold onto him or makes him semi-tradeable. They won't get a lot for him, but they could get out from under his contract. 

If they don't, he has $8M guaranteed in 2022. If Mosley is still on the team, but hasn't produced at an elite level, Joe Douglas has demonstrated having no qualms about eating Mac's guarantees and moving forward. The Jets have $49M(!) in dead money this year. $8M in dead money in 2022 would be a drop in the bucket. 

[Jetster]

Joe D did 4 things that have already endeared the man to this Jet fan.

In a total rebuild year, he signed mostly 1 year deals. He didn't make the same Jets mistake of resigning our AVERAGE players to long term overpaid deals (signing Jenkins to a 1 year deal, letting Jenkins prove he's average which he is).

He drafted Becton a LT (how many of us have said draft premium future expensive positions), QB, LT, CB, EDGE in the 1st round. 

He actually traded BACK and got the player we all wanted in this past draft. 

Finally, the Jamal Adams trade was f*cking INCREDIBLE! Two #1s & a 3rd? Insane! Now we all need to cheer for a Seahawks bounce in the 1st round of the playoffs.

And here we sit with likely the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft, a very good free agent class which lines up with our needs, 3/4 teams over the cap we might be able to trade with with some of our late picks he's accumulated, AND we still have 9 picks & maybe more in 2022 including two 1st rounders! 

* Parcells had capital too but he knew he was a short term coach & all his decisions were based on instant success. Joe Douglas is here for the long haul & you can see he's already layed out a plan. Now he really gets to fill in the blanks. I'm very optimistic! 

[rangerous]

14 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

I have criticized your criticism multiple times, but believed in the end I was being unfair.  If I am not willing to offer why I liked the move, there really is no reason to tell you or anyone else why I didn't like it!  So, again, it could be a wasted pick.  However, if you are going to get an extra pick every year by moving around, use it on a boom/bust type player.  And until we have a QB, keep picking them.  

So many QBs coming out are late bloomers. It could be Morgan is going to be darnolds successor or at least was being penciled in. I don’t think the jets figured on going 0-16 so a shot at Lawrence just wasn’t very probable.  Douglas May have been projecting 4 to 6 wins which would have put them way out of the running for a top QBs prospect. So with darnold on board for another season he can afford to draft a QB to sit watch and learn.

whats up with cam Clark?  He needs to get in and play.

[DetroitRed]

Joe D did 4 things that have already endeared the man to this Jet fan.
In a total rebuild year, he signed mostly 1 year deals. He didn't make the same Jets mistake of resigning our AVERAGE players to long term overpaid deals (signing Jenkins to a 1 year deal, letting Jenkins prove he's average which he is).
He drafted Becton a LT (how many of us have said draft premium future expensive positions), QB, LT, CB, EDGE in the 1st round. 
He actually traded BACK and got the player we all wanted in this past draft. 
Finally, the Jamal Adams trade was f*cking INCREDIBLE! Two #1s & a 3rd? Insane! Now we all need to cheer for a Seahawks bounce in the 1st round of the playoffs.
And here we sit with likely the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft, a very good free agent class which lines up with our needs, 3/4 teams over the cap we might be able to trade with with some of our late picks he's accumulated, AND we still have 9 picks & maybe more in 2022 including two 1st rounders! 
* Parcells had capital too but he knew he was a short term coach & all his decisions were based on instant success. Joe Douglas is here for the long haul & you can see he's already layed out a plan. Now he really gets to fill in the blanks. I'm very optimistic! 

Awesome post.

Pretty hard to argue that the man can’t draft. And he’s going to spend wisely. I wouldn’t expect big name free agents again this year. So hope you all aren’t disappointed. I’m pretty sure ownership is going to lean heavily on him to hire the next coach.

I’m very optimistic


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[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, Savage69 said:

If Mangini was as great as you and Tom Shane think why isn't he curranty the GM for some team?? 

You mean youre not buying the "all the good Tanny picks were Manginis" and all the bad ones where Tanny or Rex picks theory?  Either he needed help or was so lame that he was tied into whoever made picks for him?

Theres no proof anywhere than Mangini made those picks or that Tanny would let a one year, sort of DC make those picks.