The ***OFFICIAL*** Sammy is coming back THREAD let's talk about the weaponz we can add with our top picks

[ZachEY]

52 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I may be completely wrong. Just seems to me when you already have a ton of money and a guaranteed 6 yr contract. when you have been signed as a first time GM you want to prove you can be good at your job, you want to prove you can turn around a franchise and win. Obviously, I don't know the guy. Just seems to me, why would JD come to the Jets and take this VERY lucrative job with no intention of doing everything he can to win. Furthermore, wouldn't it maximize his future earnings if he was able to prove that he is a winning GM, prove that he could take a pathetic Franchise like the Jets and turn it around? Then he could name his number during contract negotiations. Way easier than the shady dealing this theory suggests. LOL.  

Is it easier?

Turn the Jets into a winner or convince Woody and Chris to pay Sam Darnold?

If easy is what I’m after, I know which one I’m going for.

[Peace Frog]

On 1/30/2021 at 12:39 PM, DetroitRed said:

Kittle is a key piece to this offense in SF.  And yes, he turned out to be a player that has been worth a top 10-20 selection.   The TE will probably be more important than the receivers

He’s pretty much a TE in name only. He’s a big bodied playmaking 6-6 WR. 
 

Imagine having a Kittle-like player  on our team.  

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I have no doubt there are other conflict of interests, but I imagine the young QB on a rookie deal and GM isn't super common.  I'll never be able to show hard evidence, and frankly, as I said, have no idea if it's happening, but the idea isn't even a little far fetched.  And, I don't think Douglas needs to be in debt, or any kind of trouble to like more money.  

All we actually know is that 1) Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold share representation, which does, at least to some degree, represent a conflict of interest.  2) Sam Darnold has performed poorly.  3) The Jets have not made any meaningful overtures to upgrade the most important position in the league.

There's more data to be collected, but if they "roll it back with Sam" with another bad veteran backup, when sitting at #2, it's not a good look.  At all.  Because, the alternative is convincing yourself of the narrative that "this is a business" only applies to players in free agency, and that everyone does this to win championships, not make money.

Why do you think this?  We don't have any evidence to say he does.  We don't have any evidence to say he doesn't either.  But, why do we believe he cares about legacy?  The only evidence we have regarding legacy is him taking the Jets job, which, lets be honest, is not a great legacy play.

But, you're making an assumption and then following up the obvious facts if your assumption is correct.  Maybe dude is just trying to maximize his earning potential while he has it?

This, this and more of this!

@TeddEY excellent post I couldn’t word this any better 

[Savage69]

5 hours ago, Biggs said:

There's a difference between great and awful.  It's possible another QB in the same circumstances would have sucked less than Sam did. 

Sam 3 years 38 games 45 td's 39 picks \ John Elway 3 years 40 games 47 tds 52 picks I can do Vinny and Steve Young also..

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Sam 3 years 38 games 45 td's 39 picks \ John Elway 3 years 40 games 47 tds 52 picks I can do Vinny and Steve Young also..

Good points if they all played in this modern day, watered down version of the nfl 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Sam 3 years 38 games 45 td's 39 picks \ John Elway 3 years 40 games 47 tds 52 picks I can do Vinny and Steve Young also..

Any rule changes over the last 30 years that make things any different for QBs today?

Otherwise, what do we make of Joe Namath’s completion percentage of 50%, or his 173:220 TD:INT ratio?  I’m too young... Did Joe Namath suck?

 

[MykePM]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

There's more data to be collected, but if they "roll it back with Sam" with another bad veteran backup, when sitting at #2, it's not a good look.  At all.  Because, the alternative is convincing yourself of the narrative that "this is a business" only applies to players in free agency, and that everyone does this to win championships, not make money.

Maybe dude is just trying to maximize his earning potential while he has it?

I think there's a significant difference between a player "maximizing his earning potential" in free agency and what you (and others) are suggesting Douglas might be doing with Darnold.  A GM taking a piece of the action while awarding a player with a contract that he doesn't deserve isn't the same as a player leaving a team to get a better offer elsewhere or even holding out to get more money.  It's the equivalent of a player taking a bribe to throw a game.  And there's a reason why the players from the Black Sox Scandal are still infamous over 100 years later, while Darrelle Revis's holdout was laughed about on Hard Knocks and then everybody moved on.

If it ever came out that any GM did what's been suggested, he would be banned from the NFL for life (actually or effectively), and rightfully so.  To suggest that Douglas might be doing that, just because some people don't agree with how he's rumored to be handling the QB situation (before the offseason has technically even started) and he shares the same agent as Darnold, seems like an unwarranted assault on his integrity.

[Savage69]

19 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Any rule changes over the last 30 years that make things any different for QBs today?

Otherwise, what do we make of Joe Namath’s completion percentage of 50%, or his 173:220 TD:INT ratio?  I’m too young... Did Joe Namath suck?

 

I'm the same age as Joe and most all the rule changes happened after 1978. Prior to that CB's got away with murder there was no 5 yard rule and D linemen could head slap the O line when the ball was snapped.. Joe's problem was he took chances throwing that he shouldn't have attempted but his gunslinger brain overruled his common sense most of the time.. Joe was treated like a rock star back then even at away games.. 

[Pac]

17 minutes ago, MykePM said:

I think there's a significant difference between a player "maximizing his earning potential" in free agency and what you (and others) are suggesting Douglas might be doing with Darnold.  A GM taking a piece of the action while awarding a player with a contract that he doesn't deserve isn't the same as a player leaving a team to get a better offer elsewhere or even holding out to get more money.  It's the equivalent of a player taking a bribe to throw a game.  And there's a reason why the players from the Black Sox Scandal are still infamous over 100 years later, while Darrelle Revis's holdout was laughed about on Hard Knocks and then everybody moved on.

If it ever came out that any GM did what's been suggested, he would be banned from the NFL for life (actually or effectively), and rightfully so.  To suggest that Douglas might be doing that, just because some people don't agree with how he's rumored to be handling the QB situation (before the offseason has technically even started) and he shares the same agent as Darnold, seems like an unwarranted assault on his integrity.

It's completely absurd.  If he thinks Darnold was a sub standard QB he'd be sabotaging his own career so Sexton gets a higher vig on Sams new contract.

Silly sauce.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's completely absurd.  If he thinks Darnold was a sub standard QB he'd be sabotaging his own career so Sexton gets a higher vig on Sams new contract.

Silly sauce.

4 years of GM money plus whatever vig and then getting fired and going back to being a player personnel guy...it's not a bad route for guys like Douglas who probably saw the Jets as their only opportunity to be a GM. Not saying it's happening, but if Darnold is back and his backup is garbage then yeah it's fishy.

[Jethead]

26 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I'm the same age as Joe and most all the rule changes happened after 1978. Prior to that CB's got away with murder there was no 5 yard rule and D linemen could head slap the O line when the ball was snapped.. Joe's problem was he took chances throwing that he shouldn't have attempted but his gunslinger brain overruled his common sense most of the time.. Joe was treated like a rock star back then even at away games.. 

The only year he had more TD's than picks was his rookie year. 73 picks in his first 3 years. Can you image what this crowd would make of that!

[DetroitRed]

53 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Any rule changes over the last 30 years that make things any different for QBs today?

Otherwise, what do we make of Joe Namath’s completion percentage of 50%, or his 173:220 TD:INT ratio?  I’m too young... Did Joe Namath suck?

 

You can also do Brees in year 3.  Worst than Sam.  He probably won’t get better, but he is also Probably not as bad as last year’s results.  He did have a winning record the year prior 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

 

There's more data to be collected, but if they "roll it back with Sam" with another bad veteran backup, when sitting at #2, it's not a good look.  At all.  Because, the alternative is convincing yourself of the narrative that "this is a business" only applies to players in free agency, and that everyone does this to win championships, not make money.

 

How would tying his career to Sam Darnold help Joe Douglas make money?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't really get the theory here. Clearly the best route for Joe Douglas is being successful enough to get another contract --that's how he makes money. Win enough to convince the Johnson's he should be here beyond 6 years.

What could possibly be the motivation for Douglas to pick Darnold if he genuinely doesn't believe in him?

[football guy]

 

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

You can also do Brees in year 3.  Worst than Sam.  He probably won’t get better, but he is also Probably not as bad as last year’s results.  He did have a winning record the year prior 

Brees Year 1 he threw 27 passes.  Not a fair comparison.

Brees's 3rd year as a starter he went 11-4 with a 27:7 TD:INT ratio.

And yes, Sam did have a winning record the prior year, competing against 4 of the 5 worst defenses in the league and I believe the league's easiest schedule that year, but also put bottom of the league numbers.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

I like this analogy, and is a good rationale for dumping Darnold. We'd literally be hoping the dude was a trailer and we don't even know if he's capable of that.

[oatmeal]

35 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

4 years of GM money plus whatever vig and then getting fired and going back to being a player personnel guy...it's not a bad route for guys like Douglas who probably saw the Jets as their only opportunity to be a GM. Not saying it's happening, but if Darnold is back and his backup is garbage then yeah it's fishy.

100% agree

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How would tying his career to Sam Darnold help Joe Douglas make money?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't really get the theory here. Clearly the best route for Joe Douglas is being successful enough to get another contract --that's how he makes money. Win enough to convince the Johnson's he should be here beyond 6 years.

What could possibly be the motivation for Douglas to pick Darnold if he genuinely doesn't believe in him?

The argument is that because they share representation, he could be getting points on any Darnold deal.

Why do players always fight for guaranteed money?  Douglas could do his absolute best, and still not succeed.  Then, no extension.  So, he's got to do something very difficult to earn another dime more than his contract from the Jets.  On the other hand, if there is a behind the scenes deal with Sexton, all he needs to do is convince Woody and Christopher Johnson that Darnold has upside, get him the 90-100M deal, and take the points to the bank.

[ZachEY]

45 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's completely absurd.  If he thinks Darnold was a sub standard QB he'd be sabotaging his own career so Sexton gets a higher vig on Sams new contract.

Silly sauce.

You understand that this is all under the assumption that he'd be sacrificing his career for points on Darnold's deal.  Not so that Sexton lines his own pockets.  You do get how this would work, right?

[DetroitRed]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Brees Year 1 he threw 27 passes.  Not a fair comparison.

Brees's 3rd year as a starter he went 11-4 with a 27:7 TD:INT ratio.

And yes, Sam did have a winning record the prior year, competing against 4 of the 5 worst defenses in the league and I believe the league's easiest schedule that year, but also put bottom of the league numbers.

It was still his third year.  Brees was 25 years old and starting his 4th season when he broke out. Sam isn’t 24.   I’m sure plenty of posters on this board would have thrown him away. It would be dishonest to say otherwise 

[dcJet]

Rolling it back with Sammy is Macc'ish.  

Macc kept kicking the QB can down the road for three years until he was forced to take a QB and then he had to overpay.   If we go another 3 years without a QB, JD is toast too.

 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

It was still his third year.  Brees was 25 years old and starting his 4th season when he broke out. Sam isn’t 24.   I’m sure plenty of posters on this board would have thrown him away. It would be dishonest to say otherwise 

I can't, and won't speak to how others would have reacted.  I didn't watch every Drew Brees start that year, to have an opinion, so I don't have one of my own, either.  I did, however watch every Sam Darnold start for 3 years, and he's been terrible since day one.  There's little to build upon, other than hope, and externalization of blame, to think Year 4 will be different.

As for dishonesty, I think to say year 3 is the same across the board is intellectually dishonest.  At the end of his Year 3, Drew Brees had started 27 games over two seasons of playing.  At the end of Sam Darnold's year 3, he had started 38 games.  That's a meaningful difference.

Age isn't relevant either.  If it was, there's a strong argument that he was too young to be drafted.  Contracts start at the age the player does, and last 5 years.  If Sam is too young to be good, then he's a problem.

I'm happy to risk throwing Sam Darnold away.  I wish we'd done the same with Geno Smith or Christian Hackenberg, and we wouldn't be having these conversations today.

[Pac]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

You understand that this is all under the assumption that he'd be sacrificing his career for points on Darnold's deal.  Not so that Sexton lines his own pockets.  You do get how this would work, right?

No one gets how this works, Shaman..  because it's ludicrous. 

 

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, Pac said:

No one gets how this works, Shaman..  because it's ludicrous. 

 

Seemingly, most everyone gets the basic fundamentals of how commissions or points work.  Whether you think it’s happening or not is an entirely different conversation.

[MykePM]

45 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Seemingly, most everyone gets the basic fundamentals of how commissions or points work.  Whether you think it’s happening or not is an entirely different conversation.

I'm not naive enough to think this kind of thing can't ever happen, but the "same agent" thing and Douglas's support for Darnold isn't enough to make me think he's on the take.  Keeping Darnold for this season isn't the type of move that's being universally criticized as an obvious head-scratcher.  Is Saleh talking Sam up because he's getting a cut of Darnold's next contract too?  How about Orlovsky, or any of the other pundits, or people around the NFL, who feel that Sam may be salvageable and was just dealt a bad hand here so far?  I'm not saying that they're right, but the viewpoint doesn't belong to only one person who could be lining his pockets off of it.

Plus, if you believe this stuff, it completely rewrites the history of the NFL.  For example, maybe Maccagnan was actually a genius after all, and he's laughing with a margarita on the desert island he owns from his cuts of the Muhammed Wilkerson, Trumaine Johnson, and CJ Mosley contracts (the Anthony Barr points were sadly lost when Barr had a crisis of conscience before he signed the purposely inflated contract).

 

 

[Pac]

34 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Seemingly, most everyone gets the basic fundamentals of how commissions or points work.  Whether you think it’s happening or not is an entirely different conversation.

I've been in sales since Herm uttered the phrase you play to win the game.  I understand commissions.

I'm saying the theory that JD would risk the position he worked 20 years to attain for 10% of 10% (or around 1 mil dollars), is completely asinine.  Nothing he could earn from this deranged scheme would come close to what he'd make by continuing to be a GM.

[ZachEY]

51 minutes ago, Pac said:

I've been in sales since Herm uttered the phrase you play to win the game.  I understand commissions.

I'm saying the theory that JD would risk the position he worked 20 years to attain for 10% of 10% (or around 1 mil dollars), is completely asinine.  Nothing he could earn from this deranged scheme would come close to what he'd make by continuing to be a GM.

I suspect the structure of this would be slightly different than at Sears Tire Center.

[Jetsfan80]

Wait a second ... weren't you just clamoring to give up whatever for Watson in another thread ? How are you going to build up the roster if you sell the farm for him ???

Answer: your not going to and you be mired at 6-10 to 9-7 for the next 5 years.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

Watson = high quality FA’s come here.

Darnold = no one wants to come here without a massive overpay.


And having a top 5 QB makes the whole team better.

This is simple stuff that I’ve noted in numerous threads already.

[ZachEY]

55 minutes ago, MykePM said:

I'm not naive enough to think this kind of thing can't ever happen, but the "same agent" thing and Douglas's support for Darnold isn't enough to make me think he's on the take.  Keeping Darnold for this season isn't the type of move that's being universally criticized as an obvious head-scratcher.  Is Saleh talking Sam up because he's getting a cut of Darnold's next contract too?  How about Orlovsky, or any of the other pundits, or people around the NFL, who feel that Sam may be salvageable and was just dealt a bad hand here so far?  I'm not saying that they're right, but the viewpoint doesn't belong to only one person who could be lining his pockets off of it.

Plus, if you believe this stuff, it completely rewrites the history of the NFL.  For example, maybe Maccagnan was actually a genius after all, and he's laughing with a margarita on the desert island he owns from his cuts of the Muhammed Wilkerson, Trumaine Johnson, and CJ Mosley contracts (the Anthony Barr points were sadly lost when Barr had a crisis of conscience before he signed the purposely inflated contract).

 

 

I'm not trying to convince you, and I'm not sold on it today.

But, I certainly don't feel good about the situation, as of today.

Maccagnan made a minimum of 10M to do worse than you or I would have done by picking off of Kiper's Big Board - with or without kickbacks, he's doing a hell of a lot better than most of us on jet nation dot com.

[BettyBoop]

Let’s look at what keeping Sam could look like.

Free Agency

• Add a stud receiver like Corey Davis or even Allen Robinson.
• Add a stud Guard like Thuney.
• Add a second WR like Algholor
• Add a center Ike Linsley

Draft

• Trade down and add a third first rounder for 2022
• A guard Ike Alijah Vera-Tucker
• A TE/WR like Kyle Pitts
• A WR like Nico Collins
• A RB like Michael Carter

Add to this all of the defensive guys they can add including Edge and CB.  If Darnold sucks they have major draft assets to get their QB in 2022.  There will surely be 2-3 QB as good or better than Wilson and Fields.

[oatmeal]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I'm not trying to convince you, and I'm not sold on it today.

But, I certainly don't feel good about the situation, as of today.

Maccagnan made a minimum of 10M to do worse than you or I would have done by picking off of Kiper's Big Board - with or without kickbacks, he's doing a hell of a lot better than most of us on jet nation dot com.

This 

 

People should be really asking themselves: 

1) in a offseason of many viable replacements why would any professional team handcuff themselves to a lame duck QB who happens to be the worst at his position?
 

2) How can JetNation insiders and some media folk be so adamant of Darnolds return months before full evaluations on the rookies are done and Watson’s situation is unsettled? 
 

Like stated above though, I don’t know yet if something funny is going on but it’s something to think about imo. We will see how this offseason plays out 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, BettyBoop said:

Add a stud receiver like Corey Davis

[batman10023]

23 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Money can be used to buy goods and services.

Sure but money can’t buy integrity. And what oatmeal is suggesting Is lacking integrity 

[RutgersJetFan]

Oh look that thread where Jets fans rationalize why we should hang on to the sh*tty QB for yet another year. This train is never late.