Interesting Observation - Jets Offense

[Warfish]

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

[JustInFudge]

A good QB could be very successful with this offense.  It sucks that it took the 2nd overall pick getting hurt to figure that out but the offense has the talent to be much better than they've performed.  

[Hex]

I guess we'll find out against the Texans if Zach was the cause or not. I think the LaFleur clearly changed his gameplan after Zach got hurt, though, so he's got that going for him

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, Hex said:

I guess we'll find out against the Texans if Zach was the cause or not. I think the LaFleur clearly changed his gameplan after Zach got hurt, though, so he's got that going for him

Is Wilson starting Sunday?

[kevinc855]

40 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

Yes, alot boils down to Zach. 

Hoping he learned not to look downfield on every single throw. We need 7 more games to evaluate. He looked like balls when he was out there so far. 

[munchmemory]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

Yes, alot boils down to Zach. 

Hoping he learned not to look downfield on every single throw. We need 7 more games to evaluate. He looked like balls when he was out there so far. 

Hairless ones.

[Beerfish]

I think that too much of this is being put on Wilson.  When Wilson got hurt LaFleur had said he had to re-eval how he was doing things and then he went up into the booth to call plays.  Things changed very much for the better since then.

We should find out soon if this is QB related when Wilson gets back.  I think the offensive planning and play calling is much better moreso than a stinky rookie QB.  White, flacco and johnson are not household good qb names.

[thshadow]

Yeah, both of the following can be true:
(A) Wilson was typically bad
(B) LaFleur has started calling a much better game.

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, thshadow said:

Yeah, both of the following can be true:
(A) Wilson was typically bad
(B) LaFleur has started calling a much better game.

This is fair.

This is why I’m so interested in seeing how Zach plays now 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

It was not all Wilson as many so desperately want it to be. Lafleur started calling games completely differently, our OL improved to average outside of GVR, Fant was big upgrade over Becton, we brought in Beck as a coach, not having Cory Davis was an upgrade as we didn't force it to one player, Moore emerged, and unfortunately we faced quite a bit of soft zone. I honestly think Zach is one of the most hated Jets ever with the fans here. A significant amount would not even give him another chance.

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It was not all Wilson as many so desperately want it to be. Lafleur started calling games completely differently, our OL improved to average outside of GVR, Fant was big upgrade over Becton, we brought in Beck as a coach, not having Cory Davis was an upgrade as we didn't force it to one player, Moore emerged, and unfortunately we faced quite a bit of soft zone. I honestly think Zach is one of the most hated Jets ever with the fans here. A significant amount would not even give him another chance.

Ohvand the emergence of MC1, which of course Zach will not have Sunday.

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Ohvand the emergence of MC1, which of course Zach will not have Sunday.

Already getting the excuses ready?  Geez, grow a sack.   

[Barry McCockinner]

LaFleur will probably have a lot more confidence with his play calling now with Wilson at the helm. Not because Wilson is the QB but because he's seen success with other QB's so he won't be second guessing himself as much if Wilson is f'ing up. I don't know how much second guessing he was doing previously but I have to believe any honest person is questioning themselves when the offense is failing, never having called it with a different QB.

 

[Uncle Nicco]

This isn’t interesting at all, it’s reductive and misleading.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the OL couldn’t block and WR couldn’t catch for 5 weeks. I also lost count of the number of runs on 1st and 2nd down that went for a loss. We completely changed our playcalling once Lefleur went in the booth. 
 

Before you get your panties in a bunch I’m not saying that Wilson has no involvement in the struggles, I’m simply suggesting that he wasn’t the biggest difference (he’s just the most obvious).

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

It's better than that. In the 4 games Zach missed, the Jets scored 94 points; 23.5 ppg would be 17th in the NFL. They've averaged 346.5 yards per game, which would be 20th overall. In other words, they've been a solidly middle-of-the-pack offense over the past 4 games, with backup QBs starting.

[Doggin94it]

55 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think that too much of this is being put on Wilson.  When Wilson got hurt LaFleur had said he had to re-eval how he was doing things and then he went up into the booth to call plays.  Things changed very much for the better since then.

We should find out soon if this is QB related when Wilson gets back.  I think the offensive planning and play calling is much better moreso than a stinky rookie QB.  White, flacco and johnson are not household good qb names.

 

28 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It was not all Wilson as many so desperately want it to be. Lafleur started calling games completely differently, our OL improved to average outside of GVR, Fant was big upgrade over Becton, we brought in Beck as a coach, not having Cory Davis was an upgrade as we didn't force it to one player, Moore emerged, and unfortunately we faced quite a bit of soft zone. I honestly think Zach is one of the most hated Jets ever with the fans here. A significant amount would not even give him another chance.

 

8 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

This isn’t interesting at all, it’s reductive and misleading.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the OL couldn’t block and WR couldn’t catch for 5 weeks. I also lost count of the number of runs on 1st and 2nd down that went for a loss. We completely changed our playcalling once Lefleur went in the booth. 
 

Before you get your panties in a bunch I’m not saying that Wilson has no involvement in the struggles, I’m simply suggesting that he wasn’t the biggest difference (he’s just the most obvious).

Honestly, you're all missing the point. The key question isn't "was the disfunction the first few weeks of the season all Zach's fault?"

Of course it wasn't. Lots of things have improved since Zach went down, OL and play-calling notably among them, and not because it was some other QB there.

The key question is "ok, now what does it look like once Zach's back?" Because the offense as it's developed to date is now capable of humming along sufficiently well. So it will be telling to see how it operates with Zach at the helm these next few weeks. If it's back to being the worst offense in the league ... yeah, that would be a bad sign. It's not like Lafleur is suddenly going to unlearn everything he's learned since week 1, or the OL will suddenly get less cohesive over time (obviously, a major injury can change that, and the absence of Carter does impact things a bit). On the other hand, if it performs to current standard or better (23+ ppg, 350 or so ypg) that's a good sign for Wilson's development and future prospects. 

So ... let's see how it goes.

[Uncle Nicco]

6 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

 

 

Honestly, you're all missing the point. The key question isn't "was the disfunction the first few weeks of the season all Zach's fault?"

Of course it wasn't. Lots of things have improved since Zach went down, OL and play-calling notably among them, and not because it was some other QB there.

The key question is "ok, now what does it look like once Zach's back?" Because the offense as it's developed to date is now capable of humming along sufficiently well. So it will be telling to see how it operates with Zach at the helm these next few weeks. If it's back to being the worst offense in the league ... yeah, that would be a bad sign. It's not like Lafleur is suddenly going to unlearn everything he's learned since week 1, or the OL will suddenly get less cohesive over time (obviously, a major injury can change that, and the absence of Carter does impact things a bit). On the other hand, if it performs to current standard or better (23+ ppg, 350 or so ypg) that's a good sign for Wilson's development and future prospects. 

So ... let's see how it goes.

Sure but the offense sucked the last two weeks, and we are missing our RB1. So yes, let’s see how it goes and try not to panic if it doesn’t immediately look amazing. And if it does go to sh*t, let’s look at all the reasons why instead of defaulting to OMFGZ ITS THE MORMON. 

[Warfish]

43 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It was not all Wilson as many so desperately want it to be. Lafleur started calling games completely differently, our OL improved to average outside of GVR, Fant was big upgrade over Becton, we brought in Beck as a coach, not having Cory Davis was an upgrade as we didn't force it to one player, Moore emerged, and unfortunately we faced quite a bit of soft zone.

Great. 

Then we should see Zach have a pretty great game vs. the 29th/30th ranked Texans Defense, given all those other improvements.

As I've said, the best way for Zach to silence his doubters would be to keep the improvements we've seen in offensive production since he got hurt going.

Quote

I honestly think Zach is one of the most hated Jets ever with the fans here. A significant amount would not even give him another chance.

I'd comfortably wager that the number of people who "hate Zach" and "would not even give him another chance" is closer to actual zero than to anything one might consider a "significant amount". 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

good points.  and then you have to consider that the offense jumped with back ups at qb.  how often does that happen?  to the jets?  almost never.  here's to hoping wilson learned a thing or two while riding the pine and better understands the game.  if so, maybe we can see another jump.

[Uncle Nicco]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Great. 

Then we should see Zach have a pretty great game vs. the 29th/30th ranked Texans Defense, given all those other improvements.

As I've said, the best way for Zach to silence his doubters would be to keep the improvements we've seen in offensive production since he got hurt going.

I'd comfortably wager that the number of people who "hate Zach" and "would not even give him another chance" is closer to actual zero than to anything one might consider a "significant amount". 

Ryan Tannehill threw four interceptions against that terrible defense. If Wilson doesn’t have a great game he can try to have one the next week. Setting arbitrary ultimatums behind the veil of objectivity is trolling. 

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

good points.  and then you have to consider that the offense jumped with back ups at qb.  how often does that happen?  to the jets?  almost never.  here's to hoping wilson learned a thing or two while riding the pine and better understands the game.  if so, maybe we can see another jump.

Probably happens about as often as team gives up the the second most points over a 4 game span in the NFL's history.

When your defense is giving up near 50 point a week, the other's team defense plays quite a bit differently.

 

[undertow]

The narrative that Lefleur radically changed his game plan or play calling after Wilson got injured has been debunked 100 times in Jet pressers...I guess it doesn't really matter tho the proof will be in the last 7 games.

[rangerous]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Probably happens about as often as team gives up the the second most points over a 4 game span in the NFL's history.

When your defense is giving up near 50 point a week, the other's team defense plays quite a bit differently.

 

i think you can say that about the dolts game i'm not so sure about the bills game or the doltfin game.  the jets lost both of those games by large margins but i don't think the bills were laying back.  if that were the case they would've pulled allen.

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Ryan Tannehill threw four interceptions against that terrible defense.

Which doesn't change that they are one of the worst Defenses in the NFL.

Quote

If Wilson doesn’t have a great game he can try to have one the next week.

And the week after that too. 

And the week after that. 

And after that. 

And so on, barring additional injury of course.

Quote

Setting arbitrary ultimatums behind the veil of objectivity is trolling. 

There is no 'ultimatum' here, only ongoing analysis and evaluation.

Nor is having an expectation of him showing some improvement 'arbitrary'.

[Augustiniak]

I think most of this has to do with the bengals not taking mike white seriously and clearly looking past the jets.  

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

i think you can say that about the dolts game i'm not so sure about the bills game or the doltfin game.  the jets lost both of those games by large margins but i don't think the bills were laying back.  if that were the case they would've pulled allen.

I respectfully disagree.

In each of those games the defenses clearly softened.  Heck, even if they didn't move into softer zones (which they did) human nature is just going to lack in motivation to come up with every stop.

But that isn't even really the point I was trying to make..

.it's just that when you play with numbers -  like the defense went from 31st to 27th over a 4 game window and try and make a determination about an individual player is just sill...it's just too small of a window - with constantly changing and and far too many variables.  

Trying to push a hypothesis based on this is faulty at best.

[Hex]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Is Wilson starting Sunday?

"Tune in Wednesday"-Saleh

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Is Wilson starting Sunday?

Yes, unless he gets mono 

[rangerous]

13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I respectfully disagree.

In each of those games the defenses clearly softened.  Heck, even if they didn't move into softer zones (which they did) human nature is just going to lack in motivation to come up with every stop.

But that isn't even really the point I was trying to make..

.it's just that when you play with numbers -  like the defense went from 31st to 27th over a 4 game window and try and make a determination about an individual player is just sill...it's just too small of a window - with constantly changing and and far too many variables.  

Trying to push a hypothesis based on this is faulty at best.

that's why saleh gets the big bucks.  he's going to have to figure out the best way to construct the team.  i'm not sure it's such a tough job, at least on offense since they've only addressed, long term, the left side of the oline and only one rb and qb.  they still need a te, rg, lt, center and another receiver.  i think defense is a little trickier because they lost so many players and it doesn't seem like all of the players are compatible with saleh's monkey defense.

[Jethead]

Expecting a positive showing. Too bad Carter is out. Hope to see all 4 prize rooks in same game before year ends.

[jgb]

21 hours ago, JiFapono said:

A good QB could be very successful with this offense.  It sucks that it took the 2nd overall pick getting hurt to figure that out but the offense has the talent to be much better than they've performed.  

QBs make the wepaoinz not the other way around

19 hours ago, Uncle Nicco said:

This isn’t interesting at all, it’s reductive and misleading.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the OL couldn’t block and WR couldn’t catch for 5 weeks. I also lost count of the number of runs on 1st and 2nd down that went for a loss. We completely changed our playcalling once Lefleur went in the booth. 

So not Wilson's fault because Jets made lots of other changes than just QB to account for the improvement but...

19 hours ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Sure but the offense sucked the last two weeks, and we are missing our RB1. So yes, let’s see how it goes and try not to panic if it doesn’t immediately look amazing. And if it does go to sh*t, let’s look at all the reasons why instead of defaulting to OMFGZ ITS THE MORMON. 

If we revert to league-worst play with Wilson... also not his fault.

[slimjasi]

30 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Expecting a positive showing. Too bad Carter is out. Hope to see all 4 prize rooks in same game before year ends.

The bolded is simply not the NYJ way . . . 

Carter being out is such a shame. 

[Snell41]

I think that too much of this is being put on Wilson.  When Wilson got hurt LaFleur had said he had to re-eval how he was doing things and then he went up into the booth to call plays.  Things changed very much for the better since then.
We should find out soon if this is QB related when Wilson gets back.  I think the offensive planning and play calling is much better moreso than a stinky rookie QB.  White, flacco and johnson are not household good qb names.

Nonsense. Total utter nonsense. It boggles the mind that all our backup QB’s have solid success in the system and the conclusion of Zach fans is that the OC, OL, RB’s, and WR’s all had marked improvements in their game not because Zach is gone (mainly the only thing that changed), but because all of those units suddenly and coincidentally had an epiphany on how to play competent football the day after Zach was no longer the starter. Knock it off. Our offense sucked with Zach for one reason and one reason alone-because Zach sucked. Hopefully he can stop sucking, but I’m not holding my breath.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Sonny Werblin]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I think that too much of this is being put on Wilson.  When Wilson got hurt LaFleur had said he had to re-eval how he was doing things and then he went up into the booth to call plays.  Things changed very much for the better since then.

We should find out soon if this is QB related when Wilson gets back.  I think the offensive planning and play calling is much better moreso than a stinky rookie QB.  White, flacco and johnson are not household good qb names.

Also, Wilson had been much better in the 2 games and 1 quarter before his injury. I am hopeful that the combination of Wilson had been playing better before his injury, Lefluer's changes and Zach getting to watch other less talented QBs killing it in the offense will result in Zach coming back and playing better than he has all season.

[Barry McCockinner]