Edge Rushers and Wide Receivers

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Or for the love change the scheme.  You need someone big enough to be a MLB but a fast high end nickel in coverage.  

And elite edges.   And elite interior DL.  
 

it doesn’t seem like the right personnel are easy to find to make this thing work.   

But we are getting better at some of the base fundamentals 

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

But we are getting better at some of the base fundamentals 

I love the idea of not needing elite CBs and DBs too.  I thought they were closer… 

You are right that they need an elite new MLB to make this work.   Fred Warner in college was a standout pass defender who had an eerie ability to read on offense.   That’s the recipe I suppose.  

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I love the idea of not needing elite CBs and DBs too.  I thought they were closer… 

You are right that they need an elite new MLB to make this work.   Fred Warner in college was a standout pass defender who had an eerie ability to read on offense.   That’s the recipe I suppose.  

I hope you got that I was quoting our DC from like week 8. The whole D is trash. 

[bealeb319]

You could really make this thread with any position headlining

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[LAD_Brooklyn]

2 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

Yes, and yes.

We need one of top ER to fall to us.  I'd prefer Hutch but I'd take either with our first #1.  

God forbid we get a WR over 6'0.  London or Pickens need a strong look.  

We also need improvement at the TE position.  The two we have our backups at best.

Please tell this to the folks who mock us selecting two OL in the 1st round.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

So just throw money to jags like Feeney instead . OHthat free agent DB that we signed to play special teams how's that working out ?

 

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Yeah, that's what we did.

Seriously?  THAT is your comeback to what I said?

[Origen]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Why not draft them early?   

Ummmm, aren't we talking about late-round flyers for guys here?  The argument you are putting forth is that you should straight up grab them by Positional Need.  WTF?  These are guys who have a 1% chance of making it anywhere.  I would rather my team grabs some guy who is faster, stronger, and quicker but never put it all together before and see if you can put them in different positions than make sure we get a 4th guard from Nowhere U that no one else wanted to draft either. 

[Origen]

1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Or for the love change the scheme.  You need someone big enough to be a MLB but a fast high end nickel in coverage.  

And elite edges.   And elite interior DL.  
 

it doesn’t seem like the right personnel are easy to find to make this thing work.   

A Micah Parsons here would be perfect.

[Origen]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

So you have no concept of how that fails, throwing large sums of money at someone and having it backfire, like it has, oh I don't know, the last 5-6 times the Jets tried it?

So is this in reference to when we signed the guy for the big money, he kinda signed with us and then didn't, or never really was coming here no matter what we offered?  We've had all of those situations in Jet history.  Some guys took the money and played, some became embarrassing.  Vikings have generally touched their toes in the water and run back to Minnesota.  No one was coming here last year as JD was not offering big deals to anyone.  Especially not long term.  This is the year those will come out and we'll have a much more productive free agency, finally.

[xJayce]

2 hours ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

I'm not to fascinated with the top WR in the draft . Rather go FA and grab Robinson from Chicago or Mike Williams from the Chargers

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I don't remember this ever working well for us...

[genot]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Pipe dreams, neither will have ANY interest in coming here.  Not solving this in free agency.  

We need to do what the Mets did with scherzer.. Break the bank.

[bla bla bla]

1) WR1 in FA - Gallup would be my target but there is also Juju, Godwin, Robinson, and Adams

2) Hutch or Thib with our pick

3) Hamilton/Linderbaum with Seattle pick

[sec101row23]

41 minutes ago, Origen said:

Ummmm, aren't we talking about late-round flyers for guys here?  The argument you are putting forth is that you should straight up grab them by Positional Need.  WTF?  These are guys who have a 1% chance of making it anywhere.  I would rather my team grabs some guy who is faster, stronger, and quicker but never put it all together before and see if you can put them in different positions than make sure we get a 4th guard from Nowhere U that no one else wanted to draft either. 

No

[Greensleeves]

4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree that there are a lot of positions of need, it’s just that unless you get playmakers at edge and WR the development of this team is staying in neutral.  You can’t win games with pedestrian athletes at important positions like those.  

You can't ignore that Lawson was our best player before he got hurt. If we don't get one of the top two pass rushers, I doubt we pick one in the first round. Lawson is also getting big money and JFM will be even better with Lawson on the field. He will make our D better immediately by quite a bit. Pairing him with Hutchinson or Thib will be a no brainer, we just need to be in the top 3 as Detroit may be persuaded to go QB once they get a better look at them. Certainly they don't think that now, but Walter football mentioned it as a possibility as the offseason progresses.

[Greensleeves]

45 minutes ago, Origen said:

So is this in reference to when we signed the guy for the big money, he kinda signed with us and then didn't, or never really was coming here no matter what we offered?  We've had all of those situations in Jet history.  Some guys took the money and played, some became embarrassing.  Vikings have generally touched their toes in the water and run back to Minnesota.  No one was coming here last year as JD was not offering big deals to anyone.  Especially not long term.  This is the year those will come out and we'll have a much more productive free agency, finally.

Lawson signed for big money.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Pipe dreams, neither will have ANY interest in coming here.  Not solving this in free agency.  

We should target DJ Chark.

[Barry McCockinner]

Write a blank check for Davante Adams and draft Hutchinson.

[sec101row23]

Just now, jgb said:

We should target DJ Chark.

Chark is nice, just depends what he wants.  Jacksonville will have around $75M in cap space so they can afford him if he wants to stay there.  Does he really want to come here and catch passes from Zach or go somewhere that’s more competitive?   
 

Thats really going to be the issue when talking about any free agent WR coming here, how much does JD have to over pay to get them to play with Zach?   Last year you could sell the hope and change of a young rookie QB to attract Davis and Cole, now that everyone has seen Zach play how much will that hurt attracting WRs?  

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Same goes for the defense.  You need edge rushers who can win one on one battles.  Just like the offense needing to scheme receivers open, the defense can’t rely on scheming sacks all the time.  There aren’t enough athletes on this team, way too many average to below average athletes at key positions.  

It's kind of like our forum.  The Jets really are a reflection of us I guess.  Lots of average to below average unathletic guys... and I never really saw Nico win a one-on-one matchup against the poster in front of him that he was debating.  

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

It's kind of like our forum.  The Jets really are a reflection of us I guess.  Lots of average to below average unathletic guys... and I never really saw Nico win a one-on-one matchup against the poster in front of him that he was debating.  

Lol…so true.  Nico was the Wayne Hunter of debaters.   

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Chark is nice, just depends what he wants.  Jacksonville will have around $75M in cap space so they can afford him if he wants to stay there.  Does he really want to come here and catch passes from Zach or go somewhere that’s more competitive?   
 

Thats really going to be the issue when talking about any free agent WR coming here, how much does JD have to over pay to get them to play with Zach?   Last year you could sell the hope and change of a young rookie QB to attract Davis and Cole, now that everyone has seen Zach play how much will that hurt attracting WRs?  

I'm hoping Chark's market is soft due to 2020 being a soft year for him and being injured in 2021 and we can overpay him a bit.

[Origen]

Oh.  My point still stands.  We will get a WR via free agency and draft OL, DL, LB, TE in the first 2 rounds.

[Origen]

23 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Lawson signed for big money.

Yep.  He did.  Got hurt so he can't do anything this year, but the money talked and he came walking.  AND, his ego told him he would be able to change this place.  But no, no one will ever come here.

[68JET11]

The first 2 picks in this years draft need to be Hutchinson, and Linderbaum.  PERIOD !!!

[undertow]

Agreed I have seen lots of people mocking the Jets drafting secondary help in the top ten I think that's the last position we should be taking that high.

[Warfish]

You know a QB is a bust when you get to the “All the WR’s and Oline need replaced so Zach can have a chance” stage. 
 

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

[doitny]

as long as we dont draft any OL in the 1st two rounds im good. 

[CanadaSteve]

8 hours ago, Origen said:

So is this in reference to when we signed the guy for the big money, he kinda signed with us and then didn't, or never really was coming here no matter what we offered?  We've had all of those situations in Jet history.  Some guys took the money and played, some became embarrassing.  Vikings have generally touched their toes in the water and run back to Minnesota.  No one was coming here last year as JD was not offering big deals to anyone.  Especially not long term.  This is the year those will come out and we'll have a much more productive free agency, finally.

You could use the internetz to find about a half dozen guys that were brought here on big contracts and contributed very little in the past half decade if you like.  

[varjet]

6 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

The first 2 picks in this years draft need to be Hutchinson, and Linderbaum.  PERIOD !!!

This team needs so, so many players.  McGovern is under contract for next year.  

I guess if we drafted Linderbaum and moved CM to RG that could work.

But I am not optimistic about convincing FAs to join this mess, particularly on offense, money or not.  So we need the draft picks to fill the holes, and need more draft picks. 

Eagles have 3 in the first round now!

[FidelioJet]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

You know a QB is a bust when you get to the “All the WR’s and Oline need replaced so Zach can have a chance” stage. 
 

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

Who's saying that?

I haven't seen that stated, by literally, anyone.

People are talking about getting a true #! WR - which is a legitimate need...People are talking about upgrading our interior OL - which is also a desperate need.  And people are mostly talking about adding a legitimate Edge rusher.

Teams upgrade positions - that's the point of a the draft.  Doesn't mean they're protecting anyone - simply because you want to upgrade in the draft and FA.

Just again, seeing a topic about how to best use our 4 top picks - and someone it becomes an attack on Zach Wilson.

It's gone beyond sad to comical at this point.

[Chrebetfan80]

15 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Need more of both.   This team lacks guys who can win one on one battles on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.  
 

Aside from Moore, there isn’t a WR on this roster that can beat man coverage consistently, it’s painful to watch.  Miami played man coverage in the second half and nobody could get open.   You can’t rely on “scheming open” a receiver on every play to get a completion.  Once in a while a player needs to beat the guy in front of him.   The Jets don’t have nearly enough of these guys.   
 

Same goes for the defense.  You need edge rushers who can win one on one battles.  Just like the offense needing to scheme receivers open, the defense can’t rely on scheming sacks all the time.  There aren’t enough athletes on this team, way too many average to below average athletes at key positions.  

 

 

I feel like this has been the narrative over at the draft forum now for a few weeks.  I think its become painfully apparent where the exact deficiencies are and the direction in the first round is becoming more and more clear.  

[Origen]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:41 PM, jetstream23 said:

It's kind of like our forum.  The Jets really are a reflection of us I guess.  Lots of average to below average unathletic guys... and I never really saw Nico win a one-on-one matchup against the poster in front of him that he was debating.  

I see alot more 'ignore and change the subject' than "matchups"

[Sonny Werblin]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:26 PM, slimjasi said:

Also desperately need a TE. 
 

This team needs to sign a TE in FA AND draft one 

OJ Howard in free agency