Root for wins? Root for Draft Postion? What do REAL Jets Fans do?

[sourceworx]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets most definitely should have traded down with the Niners last year. They would have had the 12 pick, which ended up being Micah Parsons, they would have had picks 4, 7, and 21 this year and another first next year. The Jets would be in pole position to trade for any QB they like this off-season.

If the Jets had done that and Wilson turned out to be a great QB, you would have been the first one (rightly so) to skewer them for not taking him.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If the Jets had done that and Wilson turned out to be a great QB, you would have been the first one (rightly so) to skewer them for not taking him.

Not true. I thought San Francisco was the spot where Team Wilson was trying to go and they’re a team that was ready to incubate a preemie QB like Zach. 

[sourceworx]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not true. I thought San Francisco was the spot where Team Wilson was trying to go and they’re a team that was ready to incubate a preemie QB like Zach. 

Contrary to what they were saying at the time, the Jets knew what they had in Sam Darnold. You don't get rid of a young QB if you think he can still be good. 

If they'd felt otherwise, then your trade suggestion would have been the right move.

They were in the same position they were in back in 2017. They had nothing at the QB position.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Contrary to what they were saying at the time, the Jets knew what they had in Sam Darnold. You don't get rid of a young QB if you think he can still be good. 

If they'd felt otherwise, then your trade suggestion would have been the right move.

They were in the same position they were in back in 2017. They had nothing at the QB position.

They’re in the dame position now, most likely, but with two fewer firsts, without Micah Parsons, and tied to the fortunes of the wee lad from Utah for another 16 months.

[sourceworx]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They’re in the dame position now, most likely, but with two fewer firsts, without Micah Parsons, and tied to the fortunes of the wee lad from Utah for another 16 months.

That may very well be true. But at the time they had to take a QB. It may not have been the guy you wanted, but they had to do it. They didn't have the luxury of being able to pass on one.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

That may very well be true. But at the time they had to take a QB. It may not have been the guy you wanted, but they had to do it. They didn't have the luxury of being able to pass on one.

I don’t see why they had to? It was always going to be a scorched earth rebuilding year. You can make the argument that it was a mistake to subject a rookie to this season at all. 

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In a draft that’s weak up top with no clear-cut QB pegged to go #1 overall, that might not be true.

In some drafts, if you’re looking to trade down, there’s such a thing as starting out too high. The draft capital required to move up to #1 removes a lot of teams from the running. It’s too early to know yet if this is such a draft, but so far it looks like it.

So anyway it doesn’t always give you greater control because someone else has to want your pick so badly they’ll fork over 3 first rounders or something. So sometimes it means you’re stuck with your original pick because no GM wants to appear to get swindled in a trade-down from that high up. There’s a good chance that roughly pick #5 (give or take) is a sweet spot for picking up an extra 1st rounder and/or more in 2023, which is what I think he’d be after. 

I love the way everyone knows there's no clear cut QB in the draft this year in a league that has no clue how to evaluate a QB . 

Was Joe Burrow the clear cut number 1 until fairly late in the "draft bullsh*t" we deal with every year ? Where was Herbert Drafted ?

I wanted out of that second pick and I wanted to draft Mac Jones but hey we're not experts because how could we be evaluating a freaking game !!! Its a game we have played and watched all our lives but there's experts who somehow know more yet fail at an alarming rate ! 

Its a ******* crap shoot and always will be a crapshoot. Even the great Ozzie Newsome screwed up a lot of drafts thing is he got the early ones correct and had HOF caliber players over a long period of time to cover for some of the crap he drafted later on. 

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t see why they had to? It was always going to be a scorched earth rebuilding year. You can make the argument that it was a mistake to subject a rookie to this season at all. 

We could have traded out and got Jones along with more first round picks. Everyone knew Jones was the most pro ready QB in the draft but you know ******* ceiling is where its at . 

[OilfieldJet]

In general, at the end of a losing year, I would rather play youngsters, experiment with different formations and think about next year rather than churn out a few meaningless wins. Not tank, but a different priority.

However, as we all know here, draft position is worthless unless you have someone decent selecting the players. We have had so many examples of this over our history.

Drafting well >>>>Draft position.

[Dunnie]

We have our QB ... no need to tank ... actually think a trade down or two might be wise.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

Depends on the type of win.  If the Jets lose but Zach Wilson shows tons of progress is more important than winning a game 9-6.  Of Wilson looks great and the Jets win that’s fine too.  The organization needs to learn to win games too.  

Exactly.  If Zach has a breakout game against Tampa and then the next week against Buffalo that would show serious growth.  Getting Zach to develop into a potential FQB is the "prime directive" for this franchise this year.  Nobody will complain about that.

Zach throwing for 102 yards against the awful Jaguars (no offense to Jag fans if they're reading this.  We're every bit as bad) aided by a 103 yard KR TD plus a 53 yard run by Zach where the defense gave up on the play is not kind of progress we need to see.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

18 hours ago, Warfish said:

There is no such thing as "real" Jets Fans.

There are only Jets Fans.

What you root for is purely decided by what you prioritize and how you think winners are built. 

In each case we're all rooting for the same end result: a Jets Super Bowl win.

We just see different routes to get there.

This is not a year where there is major impact from being 4th or 5th in the draft. I'll happily take wins against either or both of the Bills and Bucs. Ain't gonna happen, but it would be sweet.

[TuscanyTile2]

16 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

We have our QB ... no need to tank ... actually think a trade down or two might be wise.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

I'm also on the "trade down" bandwagon (assuming a reasonably good opportunity presents itself).  But trading down from #1 OA would've been a lot more desirable than trading down from a spot lower than that.

[Biggs]

8 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Many of the same people who are currently talking about tanking for a better pick wanted to trade down when the Jets had the second pick last April.

They're full of sh!t. Pay no mind.

 

As if the first pick doesn't have more value than the second pick. 

[K_O_Brien]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm also on the "trade down" bandwagon (assuming a reasonably good opportunity presents itself).  But trading down from #1 OA would've been a lot more desirable than trading down from a spot lower than that.

Desirable, yes but likely, no.

In this year's draft, it's more realistic to assume teams would be prepared to trade up to 4 than all the way to 1. And even 4 and 7 might be too high for QB-needy teams like Pittsburgh and New Orleans. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, OilfieldJet said:

In general, at the end of a losing year, I would rather play youngsters, experiment with different formations and think about next year rather than churn out a few meaningless wins. Not tank, but a different priority.

However, as we all know here, draft position is worthless unless you have someone decent selecting the players. We have had so many examples of this over our history.

Drafting well >>>>Draft position.

Pretty sure this is what they’ve been doing all season. They didn’t even bring a full compliment of players to last week’s game, and played guys who joined the team during the week. I’m sure they’ll be aggressive with the calls these last two weeks, trying out different things and seeing what happens. 

[slats]

43 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm also on the "trade down" bandwagon (assuming a reasonably good opportunity presents itself).  But trading down from #1 OA would've been a lot more desirable than trading down from a spot lower than that.

It’s also possible that no one would want to trade up to the #1 pick for a non-QB due to the cost. The complaining about draft position -which is out of the team’s hands, anyway- is a ridiculous waste of energy. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Trade down! Crapshoot! Lemme tell ya how football works! 

[Copernicus]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Exactly.  If Zach has a breakout game against Tampa and then the next week against Buffalo that would show serious growth.  Getting Zach to develop into a potential FQB is the "prime directive" for this franchise this year.  Nobody will complain about that.

Zach throwing for 102 yards against the awful Jaguars (no offense to Jag fans if they're reading this.  We're every bit as bad) aided by a 103 yard KR TD plus a 53 yard run by Zach where the defense gave up on the play is not kind of progress we need to see.  

I think it's very easy to be critical of Wilson's 102 yard game on the surface . Until you realize that our defense, even against a terrible Jaguars team still couldn't get off the field on many drives , , add that are running game with Michael Carter was strong and Barrios' kickoff return for  a TD gave the ball right back to the Jags and had Zach on the field much less . Not to mention there were two or three key drops that would have added a minimum a 50 yards to Zach stats . I don't think Zach' s 102 yards passing is as bad as it appears in the stat column. Our defense is what worries me about playing the Bills and Tampa in regards to Zach's development. There is soemthing that is lost when evaluating Zach when our defense cant get off the field which limits Zach's chances and addds extra pressure to succeed that the other Qbs dont deal with. Our defense is literally the worst in the NFL by far.. There is such a let down factor and momentum swings when we are down early knowing our defense cant stop any NFL team. Hopefully our defense can be even decent in the next two weekes to get a better evaluation for Zach

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Exactly.  If Zach has a breakout game against Tampa and then the next week against Buffalo that would show serious growth.  Getting Zach to develop into a potential FQB is the "prime directive" for this franchise this year.  Nobody will complain about that.

Zach throwing for 102 yards against the awful Jaguars (no offense to Jag fans if they're reading this.  We're every bit as bad) aided by a 103 yard KR TD plus a 53 yard run by Zach where the defense gave up on the play is not kind of progress we need to see.  

this is literally the worst post ive seen in a long time. you deserve the suck.

[SoFlaJets]

I'd rather watch them win and let the draft position fall where it may. How many "can't miss, he's the best player to come out..." blah blah blah and how many of those guys turned into what we thought they'd be before becoming a pro? Who knows maybe the 8th and 13th players picked in the 2022 draft turn out to be the best players of the 1st round-we can hope

 

[JohnnyLV]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

This year, 'tanking' is not a big deal for the jets, like it or not we have our new QB at least for a few years. 

However winning meaningless games at the end of a year is terrible for a team.

The Jets have often totally screwed themselves out of important players by winning late meaningless games that make you feel good for about 5 minutes then live with the fact you had to chose Vernon Gholston for the next 10 years.

The example I will use is one I've talked about a few times on here.

The Eagles vs WFT last year.  Doug Pederson and the Eagles just got eviscerated in the media for pulling hurts and not trying hard enough to beat Washington in a totally lost season.  The fact they lost meant they were picking 6th instead of 10th if they had won.  Since they were picking 6th they were able to make the deal with Miami, get an extra 1st rounder this year and still were able to draft DeVonta Smith.

The Jets are getting hammered in their last two games so no worries there. 

Is that true though? One thing we have not yet developed is a overall winning tradition. Teams need to win so that they eventually expect to win and their base level of play is higher due to a culture of winning. 

I get the desire to lose and get better draft position. But at the same time, what if we win these last 2 games and Zach plays really well? 

That momentum could lead to more victories than losing 2 games and getting slightly better draft position. 

In addition, if we were to somehow win out and finish as a 6 win team maybe its a little easier for us to sign the priority free agents we want.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

40 minutes ago, slats said:

It’s also possible that no one would want to trade up to the #1 pick for a non-QB due to the cost. The complaining about draft position -which is out of the team’s hands, anyway- is a ridiculous waste of energy. 

I'm discussing it from a fan's perspective.  That's what these forums are about.

[TuscanyTile2]

20 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

this is literally the worst post ive seen in a long time. you deserve the suck.

I stand behind everything I wrote in that post.  In what way do you think it was bad?

[TuscanyTile2]

34 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I think it's very easy to be critical of Wilson's 102 yard game on the surface . Until you realize that our defense, even against a terrible Jaguars team still couldn't get off the field on many drives , , add that are running game with Michael Carter was strong and Barrios' kickoff return for  a TD gave the ball right back to the Jags and had Zach on the field much less . Not to mention there were two or three key drops that would have added a minimum a 50 yards to Zach stats . I don't think Zach' s 102 yards passing is as bad as it appears in the stat column. Our defense is what worries me about playing the Bills and Tampa in regards to Zach's development. There is soemthing that is lost when evaluating Zach when our defense cant get off the field which limits Zach's chances and addds extra pressure to succeed that the other Qbs dont deal with. Our defense is literally the worst in the NFL by far.. There is such a let down factor and momentum swings when we are down early knowing our defense cant stop any NFL team. Hopefully our defense can be even decent in the next two weekes to get a better evaluation for Zach

Zach played a nice game on Sunday but let's not get carried away here is my point.  If Zach plays well these next 2 games, I'll be far more encouraged.

[Alka]

20 hours ago, Warfish said:

There is no such thing as "real" Jets Fans.

There are only Jets Fans.

What you root for is purely decided by what you prioritize and how you think winners are built. 

In each case we're all rooting for the same end result: a Jets Super Bowl win.

We just see different routes to get there.

Very astute commentary on your part.  You are 100% on the mark.

For myself, I am like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.  I root for the Jets to win, and when they lose, I am happy.

How does that make sense?  I don't know, but this is what this Jets franchise has done to me.

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I stand behind everything I wrote in that post.  In what way do you think it was bad?

your entire post is the glass half empty version of the actual events. i think this is what they refer to in the biz as a SOJF.

[undertow]

2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I think it's very easy to be critical of Wilson's 102 yard game on the surface . Until you realize that our defense, even against a terrible Jaguars team still couldn't get off the field on many drives , , add that are running game with Michael Carter was strong and Barrios' kickoff return for  a TD gave the ball right back to the Jags and had Zach on the field much less . Not to mention there were two or three key drops that would have added a minimum a 50 yards to Zach stats . I don't think Zach' s 102 yards passing is as bad as it appears in the stat column. Our defense is what worries me about playing the Bills and Tampa in regards to Zach's development. There is soemthing that is lost when evaluating Zach when our defense cant get off the field which limits Zach's chances and addds extra pressure to succeed that the other Qbs dont deal with. Our defense is literally the worst in the NFL by far.. There is such a let down factor and momentum swings when we are down early knowing our defense cant stop any NFL team. Hopefully our defense can be even decent in the next two weekes to get a better evaluation for Zach

Time of possession was virtually even ,total plays was virtually even, and they both had 9 drives.  Time of possession average for the season is Jets 28 minutes opponents 32 minutes.

[DoubleDown]

You root for wins because culture matters especially on a young, inexperienced team.  This team hasn't had a winning culture in a decade.

Douglas, Saleh, and Wilson are all here for at least one more season.  It would be a different situation if the team had a lame duck general manager, head coach, and/or starting quarterback.

The Jets will have plenty of draft assets to improve the team in 2022.  A couple of slots in one direction or the other is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme.  Often times, those second and third tier overlooked prospects end up having the best careers anyway.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

your entire post is the glass half empty version of the actual events. i think this is what they refer to in the biz as a SOJF.

Can you be a little more vague?

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, sourceworx said:

If the Jets had done that and Wilson turned out to be a great QB, you would have been the first one (rightly so) to skewer them for not taking him.

Wait, people are critical after the fact over decisions that don't work out? ? Tell me more! 

[Hex]

Root for wins, but at this point losses are ok
Not preferable

[More Cowbell]

You root for Wilson

[jamesr]

9 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

We could have traded out and got Jones along with more first round picks. Everyone knew Jones was the most pro ready QB in the draft but you know ******* ceiling is where its at . 

Pro ready is a blessing and a curse.

Josh Rosen was the most "pro ready" QB in his class, for example.

[T0mShane]

If you so much as turn on the television this weekend to watch the New York Jets lose by 30 points to a semi-retired Brady and Gronk, your fanhood is not in question, ever. This team sucks, it’s boring, and it’s unlikeable. If you’re still watching, you are a diehard fan. 
 

If you attend this game to root for the Jets, you are insane and should be in prison.