Daniel Jeremiah - “7 of my Top 25 prospects are Edge rushers”

[Litez]

Someone tweeted DJ "Thibodeaux, Hutch, Ojabo, Karlaftis, Jermaine Johnson, Travon Walker, Ebiketie or Enagbore" and he replied Nailed It. I would guess Ebiketie as the 7th and not Enagbore but that seems to be his list in the top 25

[Litez]

For those that havent looked at Ebiketie btw. He's really really good. Reminds me of Carl Lawson a little bit. Watch his tape vs Ohio State and then watch Karlaftis vs Ohio St. Night and Day. Really hope he's there in the 2nd round for us

[slats]

18 minutes ago, derp said:

Eh, you can functionally say that about pretty much every position in free agency. I think edge tends to be one of the ones that works out more often than others.

I also know they're not going to spend like crazy but they'll spend somewhere and given a choice between FA WR and FA edge I'm taking the edge. There's also just less going on in FA this year - which is a good thing.

Both of those positions are crazy expensive when trying to buy a top guy in free agency, that’s why you need to use premium picks on premium positions. Getting a good Edge at #4 for four years, $30M beats paying $20M/year for the type of Edge who hits the market. 
 
I want them to resign Moses, either resign or upgrade LDT, and be done with OL. I don’t want any temptation at all to take yet another first round OL. 

[JohnnyLV]

51 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I know what he said, your notion that the Jets shouldn’t draft one of them is the senseless part.  

I did NOT say that. What I said was that just because there are 7 in the Top 25 does not in any way mean that the Jets will or should pick one depending on how the draft goes. Say Hutchinson and Thibs go in Top 3. Well at 4 the Top player on the Jets board could be Icky or Neal or even Hamilton. Should they pass on their top prospect to reach for a Karlaftis?

Then at 10, it is quite possible that Burks or Wilson or London are the Top of the Jets board. Should they reach for the 6th or 7th EDGE at that point or draft the #1 receiver?

Whether we pick an EDGE depends on how the draft goes. Say Neal. Okwonu and Hamilton are first 3 picks. Well I would expect we take EDGE. I actually think it is quite possible the Jets do take an EDGE but just because 7 of them are in the Top 25 means literally nothing.

[JohnnyLV]

51 minutes ago, slats said:

Expect value and need to match up for the Jets at Edge early. The big difference between JD’s first two drafts was how aggressive he was in getting his guys in the second one. Traded up for AVT, and selected Moore when I think most of us expected another trade down. Edge is a huge need for this team, arguably its biggest. He’s gonna want one of his very top guys there, not wait around to see what’s left in the second round. Currently the odds on favorite at #4, imho. 

I would say WR, OL and TE are all bigger needs for the Jets than EDGE because of Wilson. I am not saying the Jets will not take one, though if Thibs and Hutch are gone I think OL or even Hamilton become more likely than the third EDGE

[varjet]

Hopefully 4 is the logical place someone trades up for a QB and JD can move down a few spots to maximize draft capital a bit.  This team needs better players and more good players.  

[slats]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

I would say WR, OL and TE are all bigger needs for the Jets than EDGE because of Wilson. I am not saying the Jets will not take one, though if Thibs and Hutch are gone I think OL or even Hamilton become more likely than the third EDGE

WR maybe. OL doesn’t come close anymore. The line was good last year without Becton but with everyone else healthy. TE is definitely a huge need, but not the type of need you fill with a top ten pick. 
 
Pass rushers and pass catchers. Those have to be the priorities this offseason. 

[JohnnyLV]

Just now, slats said:

WR maybe. OL doesn’t come close anymore. The line was good last year without Becton but with everyone else healthy. TE is definitely a huge need, but not the type of need you fill with a top ten pick. 
 
Pass rushers and pass catchers. Those have to be the priorities this offseason. 

Was not suggesting a Top 10 pick for TE. It is a bigger need but draft value does not make sense for a TE either at 4 or 10. I would not be opposed to a trade into the bottom of the first for McBride though.

Here is where I disagree on OL. As it stands if we bring back everyone on the OL it would seem to be in a good place. But that is only for 2022 and even that is questionable. Fant is on his last year. Becton is really a gigantic ???? I am not convinced it is even reasonable to assume he will be even average at this point. Even without the injuries it was hinted strongly in the preseason that Becton had some emotional issues as well. I do not think it is impossible that he never plays for the Jets again. So if we lose Fant and we cannot count on Becton then we also face losing LDT (to being a doctor) and re-signing Moses is not ultra likely. So in 2023 our OL could literally be AVT. That is why someone like Icky might make a ton of sense at 4.  We could play him at G in 2022 and then in 2023 we have at least our LT spot wrapped up and if Becton does return then you have a foundation of Becton, Icky and AVT which could be elite.

And we have 2 #1s which makes OL a third year in a row have much less opportunity cost.

[Anthony Jet]

"now we can trade down and get one just as good in the late 1st!"

[Fantasy Island]

We need a new medical staff and a nutritionist that carries a whip,

[bla bla bla]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

WR maybe. OL doesn’t come close anymore. The line was good last year without Becton but with everyone else healthy. TE is definitely a huge need, but not the type of need you fill with a top ten pick. 
 
Pass rushers and pass catchers. Those have to be the priorities this offseason. 

I think the team knows more about Becton than the fans. If we take Neal or Ekwonu at #4 then the answer is we don't have a ton of faith he is going to be the guy.

Our worst case scenario is a 2020 version of Becton. Leaves you hopeful but only playing 70% of total snaps. Now what do you do? You need to decide on his 5th year option plus Fant and McGovern are up on contracts.

IMO taking someone with positional flexibility should be priority #1. Doesn't mean it has to be a top 10 pick but if we pull the trigger at #4 its a damning indictment on Becton.

[Sammybighead]

This is why we should go offense in rd 1 with a guard/tackle + WR and look to take an edge with one or both of our second rd picks.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Here is where I disagree on OL. As it stands if we bring back everyone on the OL it would seem to be in a good place. But that is only for 2022 and even that is questionable. Fant is on his last year. Becton is really a gigantic ???? I am not convinced it is even reasonable to assume he will be even average at this point. Even without the injuries it was hinted strongly in the preseason that Becton had some emotional issues as well. I do not think it is impossible that he never plays for the Jets again. So if we lose Fant and we cannot count on Becton then we also face losing LDT (to being a doctor) and re-signing Moses is not ultra likely. So in 2023 our OL could literally be AVT. That is why someone like Icky might make a ton of sense at 4.  We could play him at G in 2022 and then in 2023 we have at least our LT spot wrapped up and if Becton does return then you have a foundation of Becton, Icky and AVT which could be elite.

And we have 2 #1s which makes OL a third year in a row have much less opportunity cost.

The line was fine without Becton. Resign Moses, and the team is good at tackle. No need for another, even higher, first rounder on the OL, at all. If Becton comes back and plays and plays well, all the better. If not, they can address 2023 in 2023.  
 
Again, I’m really hoping they do enough on the OL in free agency that drafting one early isn’t even a consideration, because it shouldn’t be. Zach’s in much greater need of receivers than protectors. The team is in greater need of an Edge than another OL. 

[derp]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

Both of those positions are crazy expensive when trying to buy a top guy in free agency, that’s why you need to use premium picks on premium positions. Getting a good Edge at #4 for four years, $30M beats paying $20M/year for the type of Edge who hits the market. 
 
I want them to resign Moses, either resign or upgrade LDT, and be done with OL. I don’t want any temptation at all to take yet another first round OL. 

I understand the economics of the draft and free agency. I'm not talking about taking an edge as opposed to drafting an edge highly, but adding one in free agency in addition. The idea stems from me not being particularly sure what else they're going to do in free agency that's a good use of the money and my believe they need to stack pass rushers. I will add that I don't think a free agent edge has exceeded $18M a year, the Trey Flowers contract. Last year the high end was $15M - and while that didn't work out well for the Jets with Lawson's injury it was a huge hit for the Bengals with Hendrickson.

I'd like them to handle the OL in FA as well, I'd love James Daniels to start at RG and be a potential McGovern replacement. However I don't think that's going to happen unless their board doesn't (or likely won't) have either Neal or Ekwonu in the top four.

Philosophically at the top of the draft I don't think they're looking at need except to break ties. Certainly not the way fans do, they want the best players. So if one of those guys is in the top four and they don't have a trade down in place, then they're probably going to need to leave open a hole on the OL for the potential #4 pick to play. And I think that's likely the scenario.

Maybe if there's no avenue for a guy to play they'd pass. With Fant expiring after this year and Becton being a question, tackle isn't off the table long-term need wise. Certainly not to the point of taking it off the board or passing if they think those are the best players. They'd need somewhere for the guy to play as a rookie, though. Given RG is the hole, it's not a big deal if they walk into the draft with a need there, draft a player they prefer at 4, let RG ride until the second, third round where there will be viable starting caliber options for the position.

I'm not suggesting that's what they should do or even what their preference is but unless those guys are out of the top four I think the possibility of taking them is going to trickle into the free agency strategy.

[jetsons]

3 hours ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Cameron Thomas (SDSU) is going to go WAY higher than people realize. 

He reminds me alot of Ryan Kerrigan...

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, section314 said:

So would I. He's gonna get paid, and good for him.

What do you think he's going to get?

At age 26 - granted the cap ceiling was a little lower, but not by like 50% or anything - and with his expected-prime seasons ahead of him he got a $7MM/year deal. Then he was just cut in the summer before the season, again over that amount, and no one would outbid the Jets and their $3-4MM guarantee. Then on top of that, while he was a better signing than we could've imagined (because of Becton), 2021 wasn't his best year or anything. 

Now 5 years later, at age 31, how much is he really going to get? Hey, maybe his agent already communicated they're looking for a contract in the $10-13MM/year range, thinks he'll get it, and that's why there have been no substantial talks on that front because such an amount is a nonstarter for a team that already has 2 starting tackles.

But if he can be had in/around that $7MM/yr range? I'd bite. With the injury risks that accompany both Fant and Becton, imo they'd sign someone with some LT/RT experience for ~$3MM/yr without breaking a sweat, and with the extra game (and hopefully still more games, with the playoffs we're supposed to be competing to get into) it's a really long season. I'd look to save $3-4MM/yr elsewhere, which would in turn have the dual-benefit of killing any ideas of burning a top 10 pick on yet another OLman. 

[ElBarrioJets]

1 hour ago, jetsons said:

He reminds me alot of Ryan Kerrigan...

 

And this team could absolutely use a Ryan Kerrigan. Edge is stacked in this class. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, derp said:

So if one of those guys is in the top four and they don't have a trade down in place, then they're probably going to need to leave open a hole on the OL for the potential #4 pick to play. And I think that's likely the scenario.

I don’t know about this. Teams take positions off their boards. I don’t see the Jets taking a safety, CB, or QB in the top ten this year, regardless of their grade. They’re not taking a RB or TE, regardless of need. They can do the same thing with the OL, especially if they issue a couple contracts for Moses and a RG. 
 
Pass rush is such a huge need on this team, and the draft has a plethora of them. The Jets need to scour those dudes, and have a list of about three that they really want by #10. And if they don’t think the whole three name list will make it to #10, they should just take their top guy at #4. 
 
I get that there’s a cloud over Becton, but they don’t have to deal with that this year as long as they bring back Moses. And they can (and should) bring in developmental guys later. Taking an OT at #4 to play guard as a rookie is just a horrible use of resources. We’ll see how they operate free agency, but (if there are no trade downs) I’m really hoping it’s Edge-WR with the top two picks, even if there’s some complaint about them being reaches. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t know about this. Teams take positions off their boards. I don’t see the Jets taking a safety, CB, or QB in the top ten this year, regardless of their grade. They’re not taking a RB or TE, regardless of need. They can do the same thing with the OL, especially if they issue a couple contracts for Moses and a RG. 
 
Pass rush is such a huge need on this team, and the draft has a plethora of them. The Jets need to scour those dudes, and have a list of about three that they really want by #10. And if they don’t think the whole three name list will make it to #10, they should just take their top guy at #4. 
 
I get that there’s a cloud over Becton, but they don’t have to deal with that this year as long as they bring back Moses. And they can (and should) bring in developmental guys later. Taking an OT at #4 to play guard as a rookie is just a horrible use of resources. We’ll see how they operate free agency, but (if there are no trade downs) I’m really hoping it’s Edge-WR with the top two picks, even if there’s some complaint about them being reaches. 

I can see the jets going edge at 4 and then trading back from 10 and then taking another pass rusher in round 1.  They’d still have enough day 2 picks to address OL wr and TE.

[Gangrene]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Both of those positions are crazy expensive when trying to buy a top guy in free agency, that’s why you need to use premium picks on premium positions. Getting a good Edge at #4 for four years, $30M beats paying $20M/year for the type of Edge who hits the market. 
 
I want them to resign Moses, either resign or upgrade LDT, and be done with OL. I don’t want any temptation at all to take yet another first round OL. 

What you say makes perfect sense. I guess a mitigating factor is that O linemen have a lower bust rate than every other player besides cornerback...so an edge is a high draft bust-risk maybe.

However your still logic stands.

 

[varjet]

A recent podcast I listed to thought it was unlikely that the Jets sign either Moses or LDT because they both will be looking for high likely starting roles, and it’s was not thought that the Jets could do that.  

So drafting an elite athlete like Ekwonu who could at worst play RG or cover for Becton at RT or maybe even LT seems like the better call.

While Zach is on his rookie deal, I am not troubled by the investment in OL.  I think its unlikely that Becton gets a second contract (if I were the Johnsons, I would have seen enough).   Ekwenu will get paid what we would need to pay Moses.  I think the Jets should move on from Moses and LDT and extend CM, who will be too expensive to Franchise.  If we need Fant to play LT, we can Franchise him.  

[hmhertz]

6 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Would obviously expect us to take an Edge with one of our two 1sts.

Question is...what do we do with the other. If Bechton wasn't such a fat lazy bum then we'd feel pretty good about our OL and could focus on a WR but who knows what's going to happen with him...

You got that right. Forget about the dummied up pictures they're showing of him this year.

As a rookie his love handles had love handles. His laziness has him stop moving his feet.

Contrary to the blimp, Fant has good feet

[doitny]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Was not suggesting a Top 10 pick for TE. It is a bigger need but draft value does not make sense for a TE either at 4 or 10. I would not be opposed to a trade into the bottom of the first for McBride though.

Here is where I disagree on OL. As it stands if we bring back everyone on the OL it would seem to be in a good place. But that is only for 2022 and even that is questionable. Fant is on his last year. Becton is really a gigantic ???? I am not convinced it is even reasonable to assume he will be even average at this point. Even without the injuries it was hinted strongly in the preseason that Becton had some emotional issues as well. I do not think it is impossible that he never plays for the Jets again. So if we lose Fant and we cannot count on Becton then we also face losing LDT (to being a doctor) and re-signing Moses is not ultra likely. So in 2023 our OL could literally be AVT. That is why someone like Icky might make a ton of sense at 4.  We could play him at G in 2022 and then in 2023 we have at least our LT spot wrapped up and if Becton does return then you have a foundation of Becton, Icky and AVT which could be elite.

And we have 2 #1s which makes OL a third year in a row have much less opportunity cost.

why dont we worry about 2023 when it gets here. we do have another draft next year.

if the above scenario plays out and you draft Icky at 4 what happens when in 2023 weather, we pick 4 or 14 the BPA might be ANOTHER OL. so do we draft a 4th one in 4 years? when do we draw the line and spread the premium picks around? 

thats why BPA is a bad strategy. its the one we had from 2007 to 2018 when we drafted all defense except for Sanchez in 2009. its the reason why were in this mess now. 

what your suggesting now is no better than when we drafted 4 DL. Mo, Coples, Richardson and Leo in 4 out of 5 years. 

if we do this and use 3 out of 5 top 14 picks on the OL in 3 years that will be as disastrous as what we did by drafting all those DL 4 out of 5 years.

[derp]

25 minutes ago, slats said:

I don’t know about this. Teams take positions off their boards. I don’t see the Jets taking a safety, CB, or QB in the top ten this year, regardless of their grade. They’re not taking a RB or TE, regardless of need. They can do the same thing with the OL, especially if they issue a couple contracts for Moses and a RG. 
 
Pass rush is such a huge need on this team, and the draft has a plethora of them. The Jets need to scour those dudes, and have a list of about three that they really want by #10. And if they don’t think the whole three name list will make it to #10, they should just take their top guy at #4. 
 
I get that there’s a cloud over Becton, but they don’t have to deal with that this year as long as they bring back Moses. And they can (and should) bring in developmental guys later. Taking an OT at #4 to play guard as a rookie is just a horrible use of resources. We’ll see how they operate free agency, but (if there are no trade downs) I’m really hoping it’s Edge-WR with the top two picks, even if there’s some complaint about them being reaches. 

Again, I think that's the way fans look at the draft, not teams. At 4 they're not going to be looking at short-term allocation of resources, they want a long-term building block. Quality of player is going to be more important, and positional need will be a tiebreaker. That's how teams draft at the top.

You effectively restricted their board at 4 to the top 4 edge rushers in the draft, no? Top guys in this class are OL-edge-S-CB. And general consensus has the third and fourth edges in the class somewhere roughly in the teens rankings wise. There you also maybe slip into a WR or a LB (I'd assume LB is similar to CB/S for this purpose). Regardless of what you think they should do to build the team, do you genuinely think that an NFL team is going to sit at 4 and say well I guess we have to take the guy we think is the 12th best player in the draft here? Especially when a lot of those edge rushers project to go in the teens and they have another pick at 10.

Even edge tier wise, it's going to be Hutchinson-Thibodeaux, then maybe someone establishes as a top of a second tier but likely there's going to be a clump of 3-5 guys who are pretty similar. Taking a guy in that clump at 4 or taking a guy in that clump at 10...should be a similar player.

I don't think they have to take a tackle. I don't even think they should. But given the uncertainty there I think they will if he's the guy they think is the best player on the board at 4.

Your last sentence kind of sums up why I don't think they deal with things that way. If you're hoping they lock into certain positions even if they're reaches, odds are the team's not going to force picks that way.  Teams never draft this X position round Y, Q position round R style. Is it possible it falls that way? Of course - maybe Thibodeaux or Hutchinson falls to 4 or another edge establishes themselves as a legitimate top 4 prospect and they love Burks/Wilson/London and take one of those guys at 10.

I still think they leave guard open, again unless they feel the top four players in the draft don't include Ekwonu or Neal. Because even in that scenario you'd prefer, they can come back with Kinnard or Zion Johnson with one of the two second round picks or someone in the third and solve the right guard issue. But I don't think they'll intentionally box themselves out of taking a guy they think is one of the best in the draft at the top.

[slats]

16 minutes ago, derp said:

Again, I think that's the way fans look at the draft, not teams. At 4 they're not going to be looking at short-term allocation of resources, they want a long-term building block. Quality of player is going to be more important, and positional need will be a tiebreaker. That's how teams draft at the top.

You effectively restricted their board at 4 to the top 4 edge rushers in the draft, no? Top guys in this class are OL-edge-S-CB. And general consensus has the third and fourth edges in the class somewhere roughly in the teens rankings wise. There you also maybe slip into a WR or a LB (I'd assume LB is similar to CB/S for this purpose). Regardless of what you think they should do to build the team, do you genuinely think that an NFL team is going to sit at 4 and say well I guess we have to take the guy we think is the 12th best player in the draft here? Especially when a lot of those edge rushers project to go in the teens and they have another pick at 10.

Even edge tier wise, it's going to be Hutchinson-Thibodeaux, then maybe someone establishes as a top of a second tier but likely there's going to be a clump of 3-5 guys who are pretty similar. Taking a guy in that clump at 4 or taking a guy in that clump at 10...should be a similar player.

I don't think they have to take a tackle. I don't even think they should. But given the uncertainty there I think they will if he's the guy they think is the best player on the board at 4.

Your last sentence kind of sums up why I don't think they deal with things that way. If you're hoping they lock into certain positions even if they're reaches, odds are the team's not going to force picks that way.  Teams never draft this X position round Y, Q position round R style. Is it possible it falls that way? Of course - maybe Thibodeaux or Hutchinson falls to 4 or another edge establishes themselves as a legitimate top 4 prospect and they love Burks/Wilson/London and take one of those guys at 10.

I still think they leave guard open, again unless they feel the top four players in the draft don't include Ekwonu or Neal. Because even in that scenario you'd prefer, they can come back with Kinnard or Zion Johnson with one of the two second round picks or someone in the third and solve the right guard issue. But I don't think they'll intentionally box themselves out of taking a guy they think is one of the best in the draft at the top.

We’ll see what happens. I think Joe Douglas has, pretty much, pigeon-holed positions to picks in the first two rounds of his first two drafts, though. I think that’s pretty obvious. There are positions he’s going to avoid. I’ll be shocked if he takes a CB in the first round, even if he trades down significantly first. 
 
One of the things I’ve liked about JD is that he seems to understand positional value. In the NFL, that’s QB-Edge-WR-OT. The only one of those positions he hasn’t hit high yet is Edge, and that’s supposed to be a strength of this draft. I’m not talking about taking a guy who might go half a round later, I’m talking about taking the guy at #4 who you really like and don’t believe will last to #10. Then at #10, the WR might be a little high again, but not outrageously so, and that’s where value and need will potentially meet. 
 
I can also argue in favor of a straight BAP type strategy, but it’s not the strategy that I believe Joe Douglas employs. I believe need and value figure heavily in his draft decisions. And another first round OL has diminished value in comparison to the much greater need at rushing the passer. 

[Adoni Beast]

43 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

You got that right. Forget about the dummied up pictures they're showing of him this year.

As a rookie his love handles had love handles. His laziness has him stop moving his feet.

Contrary to the blimp, Fant has good feet

It's such a shame considering the potential Bechton has. But if Douglas/Saleh are truly invested in rebuilding the culture here then there is no place for someone who isn't taking their job seriously...and an overweight player who is slacking during rehab is the definition of collateral damage on successful teams, regardless of their draft status.

If old boy doesn't come to play and in shape by the time OTA's roll around, he should be shipped off even if the returns are 2 clipboards and a tackling dummy.

But this situation certainly creates a draft NEED that we didn't have to have...so LT/RT should absolutely be on the table with one of the 1sts.

[hmhertz]

I don't want a power rusher for edge.

Power rushers are always getting hurt, witness the Bosa bros, Lawson,

Hutchinson, probable because of all the steroids they swallow. My

choice benders who can fly. Perfect examples Burns, Quinn, Miller,

Landry , Deacon, Bruce Smith and the late great John Abraham.

Nania &  Blewett were praising the Jets for chasing Lawson

over Hendrickson. the last time I checked Hendrickson was

going to the big show and had 14 sacks while Lawson was missing another year

and Lawson  on crutches again

 

 

[Claymation]

49 minutes ago, doitny said:

why dont we worry about 2023 when it gets here. we do have another draft next year.

if the above scenario plays out and you draft Icky at 4 what happens when in 2023 weather, we pick 4 or 14 the BPA might be ANOTHER OL. so do we draft a 4th one in 4 years? when do we draw the line and spread the premium picks around? 

thats why BPA is a bad strategy. its the one we had from 2007 to 2018 when we drafted all defense except for Sanchez in 2009. its the reason why were in this mess now. 

what your suggesting now is no better than when we drafted 4 DL. Mo, Coples, Richardson and Leo in 4 out of 5 years. 

if we do this and use 3 out of 5 top 14 picks on the OL in 3 years that will be as disastrous as what we did by drafting all those DL 4 out of 5 years.

I disagree, as you know the Jets 4 in the top 38 with glaring needs at WR, OL, Edge, TE & secondary. You can address WR & Edge with the 10th pick and they can move up into the 1st with one of their seconds and third. If Ikem is the 4th pick, he can play RG this year with the intent to move him outside. That also doesn't account what the team addresses in free agency.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, ElBarrioJets said:

Cameron Thomas (SDSU) is going to go WAY higher than people realize. 

I'm certainly one of those people since I'd never even heard of him before.

[hmhertz]

19 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

It's such a shame considering the potential Bechton has. But if Douglas/Saleh are truly invested in rebuilding the culture here then there is no place for someone who isn't taking their job seriously...and an overweight player who is slacking during rehab is the definition of collateral damage on successful teams, regardless of their draft status.

If old boy doesn't come to play and in shape by the time OTA's roll around, he should be shipped off even if the returns are 2 clipboards and a tackling dummy.

But this situation certainly creates a draft NEED that we didn't have to have...so LT/RT should absolutely be on the table with one of the 1sts.

Fant is fine as a LT. The mistake we made was trading up for a good run blocker

but inconsistent pass blocking guard. The Tackles the Vikes took is a better LT prospect

than the soft, lazy, always injured, out of shape uninspiring fat guy we selected and they

had our two thirds to play with

 

[ElBarrioJets]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm certainly one of those people since I'd never even heard of him before.

Lol happy to put him on your radar!

Cam Thomas plays for a program that only gets TV time at 10:30-11 pm on the East Coast on The Ocho. But due to large amounts of herb and beer, I've stayed up for a few of those. The dude just dominated PAC 12 competition and frankly he may not make it to our 2nd rounder. 

[Beerfish]

Things will shuffle around a lot after the 1st week of march when the combine is over and after the senior bowl and perhaps a few pro days.  At least one of these '2nd tier' pass rushers will totally light it up in workouts and move up.  And hopefully at least one QB will look awesome sauce and vault up to be a consensus #1 guy.

[derp]

51 minutes ago, slats said:

We’ll see what happens. I think Joe Douglas has, pretty much, pigeon-holed positions to picks in the first two rounds of his first two drafts, though. I think that’s pretty obvious. There are positions he’s going to avoid. I’ll be shocked if he takes a CB in the first round, even if he trades down significantly first. 
 
One of the things I’ve liked about JD is that he seems to understand positional value. In the NFL, that’s QB-Edge-WR-OT. The only one of those positions he hasn’t hit high yet is Edge, and that’s supposed to be a strength of this draft. I’m not talking about taking a guy who might go half a round later, I’m talking about taking the guy at #4 who you really like and don’t believe will last to #10. Then at #10, the WR might be a little high again, but not outrageously so, and that’s where value and need will potentially meet. 
 
I can also argue in favor of a straight BAP type strategy, but it’s not the strategy that I believe Joe Douglas employs. I believe need and value figure heavily in his draft decisions. And another first round OL has diminished value in comparison to the much greater need at rushing the passer. 

I think we’re kind of seeing the same thing from Douglas. I see him building more optionality for himself than you give it credit for.

You’ve decided the tackle at 4 isn’t a tackle because he’s not playing tackle this year - assuming there are no injuries. They could very well view a guy at 4 as they long term left tackle, and then it’s a premium position. There’s absolutely no long term stability at that position. It’s not bad enough they have to do it, but I also think it’s not good enough that they won’t.

Last draft was pretty evidently going to be a QB at 2. Unique position, heavy QB draft, second pick, was a layup they were doing that. Not really significant long term. He didn’t box himself into trading up for AVT.

First draft they were boxed into a tackle at 11 needing to replace four. It was pretty reasonable in a draft with four top tackles to expect one to slip to eleven - that was absolutely part of the decision to let that ride to draft day. Fant was the tackle they signed because it’d allow a rookie to play either spot depending on who they drafted. And they had a trade up in place to secure one of those guys if they got tight - there’s nothing to indicate they would’ve dipped into that second tier of tackles. They wanted one of four in a top tier, made it pretty foolproof, and got one. If there weren’t four top tier guys sitting at eleven with trade up options and tackle flexibility I don’t think they box in the same way. They were firmly positioned in a tier of prospects and decided to take someone in that tier and trade up if necessary. What you’re suggesting with edge this year is akin to the idea that they would’ve taken Austin Jackson at 11 if the four tackles are off the board.

Having a pick at ten makes a huge difference as well. This draft the edge tier is two guys and with the Jets sitting at four they’re quite possibly going to be off the board. There’s theoretically a big drop off after those two guys, and another edge tier starting around the tenth pick. To me the most consistent approach to what they’ve done would be taking an edge in the top tier if one falls to four and taking someone in that second tier at ten if not. Securing a trade up with Detroit or even Houston would be consistent if they decide they need one of the top edges as well. Reaching outside the tier just doesn’t line up the same way as past stuff they’ve done. It is very, very possible they could take the third edge in this class at 10 and get the same player they would’ve taken at four. That’s how edge tiers are looking right now.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

6 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

and a nutritionist that carries a whip,

No kidding, but it might to too late for Becton

The nutritionist also needs to be able to inspect salmon properly.

[greenwichjetfan]

8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

it is a meaningless stat that has no meaning