The Jets Will Go as LaFleur Goes, - Not Zach, Flacco, Nor the Defense

[McNeil]

Whoever is under center Joe D has amassed more than enough talent for that QB to succeed - if LaFleur brings a gun to the gun fight. Unlike the first part of last year when he carried a knife, and called the game like a coward.

Before Zach was injured last season, LaFleur's tendencies were obvious for all the world to see. Thus the opposition ate the Jets offense alive. It was way worse than it should've been; it was an. anemic. After Zach got hurt LaFleur threw away his conservative, disjointed and most of all predictable script - and rolled the dice with Mike White. And he continued doing so for most of the remainder of the season. And like that the Jets offense was noticeably better.

No, this season doesn't revolve around Zach or Flacco, nor the defense (the defense will do its job). It will turn on LaFleur (and thus Saleh as his boss). He has enough talent to put some points on the board. In today's offense-friendly NFL you need a dynamic, creative, fearless OC leading your team. Is LaFleur that man?

[The Crusher]

I quit.,

[Hal N of Provo]

I don’t know.   He kept calling plays without enough blockers and no outlets.  
 

But there were good things too. like most on the Jets - potential, but he needs to improve to be successful in the NFL. 

[IndianaJet]

I mean, if preseason games are any indication we are screwed.  
 

Plays seemed very basic and bland and it was like he didn’t game-plan for the opposing team at all?!?!?!?

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Folks, there's a reason the QB is the highest-paid employee on NFL teams and OC's make a fraction of what they do:  The QB matters a lot more than the OC.

Over two decades of this nonsense.  Paul Hackett, Mike Heimerdinger, Brian Schottenheimer, Tony Sparano, Marty Mornhinweg, Chan Gailey, John Morton, Jeremy Bates, Dowell Loggains and now Mike LaFleur.  All of these guys were fully to blame for the failures of the offense.  Because of course.

[pointman]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

I quit.,

I audibly laughed out loud at this. Didn't expect this post. Would read again. 10 outta 10. Recommended.

[pointman]

38 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

I mean, if preseason games are any indication we are screwed.  
 

Plays seemed very basic and bland and it was like he didn’t game-plan for the opposing team at all?!?!?!?

 

Thats what preseason calls are.

[Joe W. Namath]

Lafluer is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game.  But he will need Zach to be at his best to score points and win football games.  Wednesday, August 31st🙏🙏🙏

[Flea Flicking Frank]

7 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Lafluer is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game.  But he will need Zach to be at his best to score points and win football games.  Wednesday, August 31st🙏🙏🙏

Im being honest when I ask this question, what the hell do you see in him? I think Lafleur is absolutely horrid

[pointman]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Im being honest when I ask this question, what the hell do you see in him? I think Lafleur is absolutely horrid

He's regurgitating all the hot takes about LaFleur from people who have spoken about him in what are more or less advertisements for his hiring. 

[Jets Things]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Folks, there's a reason the QB is the highest-paid employee on NFL teams and OC's make a fraction of what they do:  The QB matters a lot more than the OC.

Over two decades of this nonsense.  Paul Hackett, Mike Heimerdinger, Brian Schottenheimer, Tony Sparano, Marty Mornhinweg, Chan Gailey, John Morton, Jeremy Bates, Dowell Loggains and now Mike LaFleur.  All of these guys were fully to blame for the failures of the offense.  Because of course.

3rd and 9? Gotta call a draw!! 

[JoJoTownsell1]

Lafleur is the best coach on this team, and it's not close. 

[Jetsfan80]

59 minutes ago, Jets Things said:

3rd and 9? Gotta call a draw!! 

I’m not saying a lot of our OCs haven’t sucked, mind you.  But fans have tried to scapegoat them for bad QB play for over 20 years.

[Warfish]

I see the Zach excuse train is already headed down the tracks with it's first scapegoat if/when Zach poops himself.

Right on schedule.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The big money OL got handled by the Giants trash backups 

especially in the run game

there were no holes

MC doing gymnastics to avoid TFLs

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I see the Zach excuse train is already headed down the tracks with it's first scapegoat if/when Zach poops himself.

Right on schedule.  

What astronomical leap in logic took you to that conclusion?

Serious question:  Did you even read the first sentence?  How about more than half of the title?

“Whoever is under center…”

“…Flacco, Nor the Defense”

”No, this season doesn't revolve around Zach or Flacco, nor the defense (the defense will do its job). It will turn on LaFleur (and thus Saleh as his boss). He has enough talent to put some points on the board. In today's offense-friendly NFL you need a dynamic, creative, fearless OC leading your team. Is LaFleur that man?”

You guys do realize that not every single little thing mentioned here has to do with Zach right?  Especially when that thing is a post SPECIFICALLY talking about how the QB is less important than the OC right now.  

I mean seriously, would it absolutely kill anyone here to actually read the content of threads they’re responding to so we can have other conversations here?

[Hal N of Provo]

51 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I see the Zach excuse train is already headed down the tracks with it's first scapegoat if/when Zach poops himself.

Right on schedule.  

 

20 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The big money OL got handled by the Giants trash backups 

especially in the run game

there were no holes

MC doing gymnastics to avoid TFLs

Yeah Warfish, there’s the first Zach homer right on schedule 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

No, this season doesn't revolve around Zach or Flacco..........It will turn on LaFleur

This season is not on LaFleur. 

It's 100% on Zach Wilson.

Trying to portray it otherwise is the same kind of pre-emptive excuse making we've heard many times before. 

In before "we can't judge Zach, LaFleur's playcalling sucked, we have to wait, and see Zach with a real O-Co".

Hell, that was the meme for a big chunk of early season last year, till it got blown open when the backups played.  

[Mogglez]

23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This season is not on LaFleur. 

It's 100% on Zach Wilson.

Trying to portray it otherwise is the same kind of pre-emptive excuse making we've heard many times before. 

In before "we can't judge Zach, LaFleur's playcalling sucked, we have to wait, and see Zach with a real O-Co".

Hell, that was the meme for a big chunk of early season last year, till it got blown open when the backups played.  

Not once, in OPs entire post, did anyone say anything remotely close to "we can't judge Zach, LaFleur's playcalling sucked, we have to wait, and see Zach with a real O-Co".

If you actually read the post, and it’s so painfully clear that you didn’t, the first line, literally, discusses the point it is trying to make:

It doesn’t matter who the QB is.  There are no excuses for this offense to not put up points, and LaFleur needs to remember what worked last year, along with what didn’t, in order to succeed, as his growth as a play caller is vital to this team’s success, both short term and long term.

If you want to disagree with the notion that LaFleur is that important, fine.  Be my guest.  That’s the discussion OP is trying to have.  If you’re going to derail the thread and turn it into another “Wilson’s Warriors vs Anti-Zaxxers” thread with snippy and misinformed insinuations like the one you made, when we already have 7 (I literally counted) of those type of threads on the front page of the forum right now, then do everyone a favor and just stop.  I’m so absolutely sick of not being able to have real discussions here without the thread devolving into a pissing match because two sides, who SHOULD be rooting for the same thing, can’t stop making passive aggressive quips and ruining threads.

[Paradis]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Folks, there's a reason the QB is the highest-paid employee on NFL teams and OC's make a fraction of what they do:  The QB matters a lot more than the OC.

 

It's an interesting thought, although slightly erroneous, or maybe incomplete... The majority of Coaches ascend from Coordinators, and for most teams (minus outliers), poor coaching will cap your team's success. No matter the QB...

I also think Stafford's winning a SB actually is an argument against your statement. The OC is the user with the joystick calling plays. But if your QB player is rated 71 with accuracy issues and no arm -- then he's not able to execute the buttons you're mashing. I think what I'm saying is -- its not the QB up game-planning all night. Culturally speaking, we've become QB worshippers, because, to your point -- no other player can so dramatically impact a team's chance to win consistently. They're an invaluable commodity... but ideally.... IDEALLY... they're the Lamborghini your OC is driving. 

The driver is still the one who ultimately decides where this offense is headed. 

[Paradis]

39 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This season is not on LaFleur. 

It's 100% on Zach Wilson.

 

 

*52 other players in the room*

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, McNeil said:

Whoever is under center Joe D has amassed more than enough talent for that QB to succeed - if LaFleur brings a gun to the gun fight. Unlike the first part of last year when he carried a knife, and called the game like a coward.

Before Zach was injured last season, LaFleur's tendencies were obvious for all the world to see. Thus the opposition ate the Jets offense alive. It was way worse than it should've been; it was an. anemic. After Zach got hurt LaFleur threw away his conservative, disjointed and most of all predictable script - and rolled the dice with Mike White. And he continued doing so for most of the remainder of the season. And like that the Jets offense was noticeably better.

No, this season doesn't revolve around Zach or Flacco, nor the defense (the defense will do its job). It will turn on LaFleur (and thus Saleh as his boss). He has enough talent to put some points on the board. In today's offense-friendly NFL you need a dynamic, creative, fearless OC leading your team. Is LaFleur that man?

Hmm. Seems to me that after realizing the two TE thing wasn't going to work he adjusted a bit, but Mike white was just capable of running the system better thank zach. I don't think he was very conservative at first and then changed...if anything some of his playing calling became more safe as the season went on

[T0mShane]

LaFleur was a made man after that Colts game where he squeezed blood from the Josh Johnson stone. 

[genot]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

This season is not on LaFleur. 

It's 100% on Zach Wilson.

Trying to portray it otherwise is the same kind of pre-emptive excuse making we've heard many times before. 

In before "we can't judge Zach, LaFleur's playcalling sucked, we have to wait, and see Zach with a real O-Co".

Hell, that was the meme for a big chunk of early season last year, till it got blown open when the backups played.  

Agreed. We have more than enough talent to put up good numbers offensively. Wilson has the arm talent to make all the throws. If this offense struggles its because of his bad decisions, and, or inaccuracy. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

28 minutes ago, genot said:

Agreed. We have more than enough talent to put up good numbers offensively. Wilson has the arm talent to make all the throws. If this offense struggles its because of his bad decisions, and, or inaccuracy. 

Wilson has a “loose, live arm”, but I personally think his arm talent has been overstated 

He flexed on future UPS drivers during a COVID year

Much easier to make relaxed “off-platform” throws when it’s like a 7 on 7 drill with no pass rush vs Troy, Sam Houston State or whatever, but those situations don’t really prepare you for the NFL 

Besides, if it was only about arm talent,  Jamarcus Russell would be in the HOF instead of a legendary bust

Joe Douglas is in denial, just like he was with Sam

Wilson should have spent his summer with Peyton and Eli learning how to play from the pocket instead of touring South Beach and Cabo or whatever with his BFF Berrios 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

It's an interesting thought, although slightly erroneous, or maybe incomplete... The majority of Coaches ascend from Coordinators, and for most teams (minus outliers), poor coaching will cap your team's success. No matter the QB...

I also think Stafford's winning a SB actually is an argument against your statement. The OC is the user with the joystick calling plays. But if your QB player is rated 71 with accuracy issues and no arm -- then he's not able to execute the buttons you're mashing. I think what I'm saying is -- its not the QB up game-planning all night. Culturally speaking, we've become QB worshipper, because, to your point -- no other player can so dramatically impact a team's chance to win consistently. They're an invaluable commodity... but ideally.... IDEALLY... they're the Lamborghini your OC is driving. 

The driver is still the one who ultimately decides where this offense is headed. 

Im not saying that coaching isn’t important or that there aren’t bad OCs.  What I am saying is that coaches don’t suddenly forget how to coach if they’ve made it this far in the profession.  

Bad QBs make OCs look bad no matter how good the OC (with rare exceptions).  Very good QBs can make OCs look like geniuses.  Some OCs can help good QBs become great.  But NO OC can take a sh*t QB and make him look good.  If Zach is sh*t there’s nothing Lafleur can really do to help him.  

[genot]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Wilson has a “loose, live arm”, but I personally think his arm talent has been overstated 

He flexed on future UPS drivers during a COVID year

Much easier to make relaxed “off-platform” throws when it’s like a 7 on 7 drill with no pass rush vs Troy, Sam Houston State or whatever, but those situations don’t really prepare you for the NFL 

Besides, if it was only about arm talent,  Jamarcus Russell would be in the HOF instead of a legendary bust

Joe Douglas is in denial, just like he was with Sam

Wilson should have spent his summer with Peyton and Eli learning how to play from the pocket instead of touring South Beach and Cabo or whatever with his BFF Berrios 

Well. That's pretty much what I said. He has a tendency to panic too quickly and leaves the pocket prematurely.  Very Darnoldish. He has a great arm though. Not much touch. Although that improved at the end of last season. We'll see.

[neckdemon]

10 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

I mean, if preseason games are any indication we are screwed.  
 

Plays seemed very basic and bland and it was like he didn’t game-plan for the opposing team at all?!?!?!?

 

 

lol its preseason. there's no real gameplanning and everything is mostly vanilla. that said.....yeah this team isn't gonna be winning many games this year. there's some talent for sure, but the jets are still about 2 years away from being a legit contender for postseason play. if they win 6 games this year i'd be surprised

[jgb]

9 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Lafluer is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game.  But he will need Zach to be at his best to score points and win football games.  Wednesday, August 31st🙏🙏🙏

We really need a face palm reaction option.

[neckdemon]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

We really need a face palm reaction option.

i don't think that guy has ever said a negative thing about anythign to do with the jets even once. willing to bet he even thinks the uniforms are the best, not only in the nfl......but the best uniforms for a sports team ever in history

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i don't think that guy has ever said a negative thing about anythign to do with the jets even once. willing to bet he even thinks the uniforms are the best, not only in the nfl......but the best uniforms for a sports team ever in history

He watched @SAR I closely, took notes, and then said “hold my beer.”

[Biggs]

Not to mention Gase gets blamed for Douglas's first draft.  Lefleur had a lot to do with taking Zach Wilson.   Saleh is in charge of good vibrations.  

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Saleh is in charge of good vibrations.  

[Biggs]

9 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Lafluer is one of the brightest, young offensive minds in the game.  But he will need Zach to be at his best to score points and win football games.  Wednesday, August 31st🙏🙏🙏

His offensiveness burns very bright.  

[SickJetFan]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

His offensiveness burns very bright.  

one thing is clear, we dont have to worry about him leaving to be head coach somewhere anytime soon.  You can't be head coach from the booth.