Tua head injury: bad look for NFL/Dolphins

[Butterfield]

Just now, David Harris said:

No offense but all the armchair doctors are off here.  Last week WAS a lower back injury from shock to the lower back, this week was a concussion.  

You can have trouble walking from things other than a shot to the head.

No, not like that.  It was obvious he was woozy.  

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Meh .. if the act of the tackle.is in progress you cant and should not stop the hit.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

You think the hit on Tua was unavoidable?  I don't BUT it was close. But there are many cases where it is not.  Most believe it was a late hit.

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/tua-tagovailoa-head-injury-late-hit-matt-milano-concussion-video-dolphins-01gdtxzw5s2g

 

[Butterfield]

6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But players and people make choices everyday about whether or not to take part in risky activities. Where does it end with regulation, smoking , drinking , poor food choices , working construction, listening to extremely loud music , hell I'd even contend you take a risk everyday getting on a highway. Once choices are taken away what is left ? 

Unfortunately, often people are too stupid to make their own choices.  
 

If you have ever heard Tua talk, you know he his the textbook definition of a dumb jock.  Too many hits to the head already.  

[TheClashFan]

18 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The fact we are having this type of convo these days is a good thing.  I remember playing high school ball and in practice we were in a tackling drill.  I went low on a guy just as he as making a move and his knee came up and hit me right in the head.  Classic ring your bell effect, I got up staggered around a bit was dizzy and felt sick....and I went right to the back of the line of the same drill to line up for the next rep.

Players coaches etc were just totally unaware of the potential consequences of such a thing.  It was suck it up and show you are tough.

 

 

Yeah, and just because a guy can "shake it off" after a head hit doesn't mean that he should be right back out on the field, running around and getting hit some more.  Idk if the Dolphins erred with Tua, but it is early in the season, and they should be trying to keep him healthy long-term, it is a long season, rather than just for a single big national TV game.

 

[FloridaJetsFan]

5 hours ago, docdhc said:

It was an independent doctor who cleared him. They determined he didn’t have a concussion based on actual exam and cognitive testing. Yes it looks bad because he had a head injury this week but everything doesn’t have to be a conspiracy. 

The NFL rule is - if a player demonstrates "gross motor instability" he is not to return to the game, and may be out for indefinite period of time. If you saw him fall (twice) after the Buffalo hit, how can anyone conclude that he did NOT suffer "gross motor instability?" I think the Dolphins should be brought up on attempted murder charges.

[Greensleeves]

16 minutes ago, David Harris said:

No offense but all the armchair doctors are off here.  Last week WAS a lower back injury from shock to the lower back, this week was a concussion.  

You can have trouble walking from things other than a shot to the head.

Completely disagree. You don't shake your head twice, be woozy, and fall to the ground with a back injury. They are textbook symptoms of a concussion. The team Dr. told him to go back in - you have to protect the players from themselves. Common sense dictates the guy doesn't see the field for the rest of Sunday's game and Thursdays game.

[southparkcpa]

21 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Unfortunately, often people are too stupid to make their own choices.  
 

If you have ever heard Tua talk, you know he his the textbook definition of a dumb jock.  Too many hits to the head already.  

Says who????  Those who judge others are the most scary IMO.  No one has the right to judge or make choices for others.  

[jetspenguin]

Just felt horrible for the kid. For a minute there I said a silent prayer when I saw the way he held his fingers while laying in the ground.

Scary moment for his family I'm sure.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

Completely disagree. You don't shake your head twice, be woozy, and fall to the ground with a back injury. They are textbook symptoms of a concussion. The team Dr. told him to go back in - you have to protect the players from themselves. Common sense dictates the guy doesn't see the field for the rest of Sunday's game and Thursdays game.

This is what I was thinking when they said back injury because it sure looked like his head wasn't right to me.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[jetspenguin]

No offense but all the armchair doctors are off here.  Last week WAS a lower back injury from shock to the lower back, this week was a concussion.  
You can have trouble walking from things other than a shot to the head.

He didn't have trouble walking. He had trouble walking straight....... and his equilibrium was clearly off. Additionally, I do find it strange that they said it was a back injury but he never held or touched his back to indicate any pain back there... not once. I NEVER agre with this loud mouth but this time he is 100% CORRECT.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Butterfield]

11 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Says who????  Those who judge others are the most scary IMO.  No one has the right to judge or make choices for others.  

The government does it all the time.  Every second of every day.  

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

The government does it all the time.  Every second of every day.  

Unconstitutionally but yes.....

[FootballLove]

This highlights my fear of having a small QB. Tua, Zack, Kyler Murray, et al. 

You can watch the Bills play for the next 100 years and will never see Josh Allen be tossed around and thrown to the ground like a rag doll. Remember the days of blitzers literally bouncing off Big Ben Rothlisberger? We'll never have those days here.

There's just something about a 6'6" 250 pound QB that is so appealing to me. I get and appreciate all the scrambling around and door-dash stuff Zack brings to the pocket, but watching Tua get whip-slammed to the turf is like looking into a crystal ball for ZW (and other small-ish QBs). I just have a feeling it's only a matter of time. Ugg.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, FootballLove said:

This highlights my fear of having a small QB. Tua, Zack, Kyler Murray, et al. 

You can watch the Bills play for the next 100 years and will never see Josh Allen be tossed around and thrown to the ground like a rag doll. Remember the days of blitzers literally bouncing off Big Ben Rothlisberger? We'll never have those days here.

There's just something about a 6'6" 250 pound QB that is so appealing to me. I get and appreciate all the scrambling around and door-dash stuff Zack brings to the pocket, but watching Tua get whip-slammed to the turf is like looking into a crystal ball for ZW (and other small-ish QBs). I just have a feeling it's only a matter of time. Ugg.

Besides Josh Allen, who else is built like that? Lol. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

50 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

You think the hit on Tua was unavoidable?  I don't BUT it was close. But there are many cases where it is not.  Most believe it was a late hit.

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/tua-tagovailoa-head-injury-late-hit-matt-milano-concussion-video-dolphins-01gdtxzw5s2g

 

We got to get those slightly late, mild nudges out of this league.  

[The Crusher]

15 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

The government does it all the time.  Every second of every day.  

 

11 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Unconstitutionally but yes.....

Not sure if you guys saw it but we have recently adopted a No politics rule. Thanks. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Besides Josh Allen, who else is built like that? Lol. 

Christian Hackenburg. 

[David Harris]

16 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

He didn't have trouble walking. He had trouble walking straight....... and his equilibrium was clearly off. Additionally, I do find it strange that they said it was a back injury but he never held or touched his back to indicate any pain back there... not once. I NEVER agre with this loud mouth but this time he is 100% CORRECT.
 

 

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.


 

 

 

17 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

He didn't have trouble walking. He had trouble walking straight....... and his equilibrium was clearly off. Additionally, I do find it strange that they said it was a back injury but he never held or touched his back to indicate any pain back there... not once. I NEVER agre with this loud mouth but this time he is 100% CORRECT.
 

 

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.


 

 

There’s a lot of presumptions here.  Presuming the medical staff and the entire NFL, which is trying hard to limit concussions, misdiagnosed  and then lied about the injurylast week.  

Then also the presumption that last night’s clear head whip would not have resulted in a concussion had he not gotten hurt the week before.  The physics of the play would’ve resulted in a concussion no matter what last night.

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

 

Not sure if you guys saw it but we have recently adopted a No politics rule. Thanks. 

Since when???!!!!

I don't remember voting on that rule!

#Rigged

[Butterfield]

7 minutes ago, David Harris said:

 

There’s a lot of presumptions here.  Presuming the medical staff and the entire NFL, which is trying hard to limit concussions, misdiagnosed  and then lied about the injurylast week.  

Then also the presumption that last night’s clear head whip would not have resulted in a concussion had he not gotten hurt the week before.  The physics of the play would’ve resulted in a concussion no matter what last night.

The fencing response is known to occur more often in individuals with multiple concussions in a short amount of time.  Its really not that much different than a seizure, in which the brain needs time to heal and if a second one occurs before you have healed from the first, in can cause a lot more trauma.  To be honest, Tua should probably go IR for the rest of the season, even if just as a precaution.  

[bostonmajet]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's football.  Aren't you supposed to slam people to the ground?  It's okay to do it to the RB, but not the QB?  I am sure they would have called it if it weren't for the play prior being that "diving at the legs" nonsense where a falling DL has to determine whether he should try to do his job while falling to the floor being blocked by a 340 lb man. 

Rules are rules - you can't dive at the legs - and he totally did, you can't slam the QB down - and he totally did. There are rules all over the place like not hitting a defenseless player, can't motion two at a time, must be set before the snap of the ball, ....

There are rules - you may not like some, but that is the way it is. Personally, I don't care for the fact that a defender can't do anything to the receiver and that a catch is not well defined. But, these are the rules.

[Butterfield]

39 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Unconstitutionally but yes.....

Interesting that you like a sport that has an in depth rule book.  

[FootballLove]

As a robotics engineer with a MS in AI, I can tell all of us (and many on here can too) it would be SO EASY to imbed accelerometers (impact sensors) into the helmets of every player. Add blue tooth to the Med Tent and the Med staff can observer and evaluate head impact in real time. An impact beyond a certain number is an automatic 'get him off the field'. No guessing. No second guessing. Heck, the impact graph can even be displayed on TVs so every fan watching will know right then how bad the player's head got whacked.

Also, a 2nd or 3rd concussion is easier to get and worse off than the 1st concussion. So players returning from concussion protocol will have a lower impact sensor limit before getting yanked. Plus all head impacts over a career could be dropped onto a thumb drive for future health care.

Anway, one possible reason the NFL will never do this is impact sensors will provide the player with 100% proof of brain injury when he eventually sues the NFL.

[Sonny Werblin]

10 hours ago, docdhc said:

I’m not defending the nfl overall but their previous misdeeds led to using independent doctors on gameday. I’m just taking about this particular incident and saying he met the criteria they use. Whether football itself is dangerous and should be outlawed is another discussion 

How much is the "independent" doctor paid? Are independent docs who identify too many possible concussions not asked back the next season?

[FootballLove]

35 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Besides Josh Allen, who else is built like that? Lol. 

I get it. But come draft time, I'd take a monster with slightly lower upside over a small-ish candidate every time. Sometimes all the QBs coming out are super skinny or just small, so there's no decision to be made. But take 2018.....I'd take Josh Allen over Baker Mayfield, even though Josh had a lower up-sise projection, just based the durability alone.

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Lets suppose we had real data that NFL football players die younger and have more cognitive disorders including CTE and early onset of serious cognetive disease.  Lets also suppose teams and team doctors have a financial incentive to ignore evidence of long term harm and get players back on the field who are at risk.   Should that impact regulation, liablilty and the rules?  Should there be criminal penalties?  

It's a very tough question but at a certain point as data and medical information brings transparency to these issues there might be a very good societal reason to scrap NFL football and some other high contact sports where head trauma is involved. 

I believe at some point they stopped feeding Christians to the Lions and having slaves fight to the death in front of cheering crowds.

big difference between your two examples where there is immediate death versus a long term issue.

[DetroitRed]

Apologies if shared already 

 

[David Harris]

30 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

The fencing response is known to occur more often in individuals with multiple concussions in a short amount of time.  Its really not that much different than a seizure, in which the brain needs time to heal and if a second one occurs before you have healed from the first, in can cause a lot more trauma.  To be honest, Tua should probably go IR for the rest of the season, even if just as a precaution.  

You guys are really dug in from your living rooms

[Butterfield]

Just now, David Harris said:

You guys are really dug in from your living rooms

Says an organization with an owner who is currently suspended for cheating.  Hmm.  

[SuicidalSince98]

3 minutes ago, David Harris said:

You guys are really dug in from your living rooms

Criminal denies crime/ breaking news at 11

[Trotter]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Christian Hackenburg. 

Oof

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

No offense but all the armchair doctors are off here.  Last week WAS a lower back injury from shock to the lower back, this week was a concussion.  

You can have trouble walking from things other than a shot to the head.

https://news.yahoo.com/guys-jail-concussion-expert-rages-113938318.html

[slimjasi]

18 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Criminal denies crime/ breaking news at 11

criminal might be a tad bit strong.

As someone who works in medicine, I can promise you that there is plenty of incompetence among doctors and medical personnel, in general. Doctors make mistakes all the time. Sometimes big ones. Missed diagnoses are underreported in the US. It's entirely possible that they administered the concussion test incorrectly or even that the test itself is inadequate in the first place. 

I think the Dolphins HC covering up a concussion is less likely than the doctor in charge just missing the boat. 

[jetspenguin]

There’s a lot of presumptions here.  Presuming the medical staff and the entire NFL, which is trying hard to limit concussions, misdiagnosed  and then lied about the injurylast week.  
Then also the presumption that last night’s clear head whip would not have resulted in a concussion had he not gotten hurt the week before.  The physics of the play would’ve resulted in a concussion no matter what last night.

Maybe it is a presumption but no, I don't assume a conspiracy. I suggest that the independent Dr on the sidelines for the Dolphins made an error. Anyone can be wrong.

Sent from the NY Jets /Zack Wilson Suicide Watch desk.

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But players and people make choices everyday about whether or not to take part in risky activities. Where does it end with regulation, smoking , drinking , poor food choices , working construction, listening to extremely loud music , hell I'd even contend you take a risk everyday getting on a highway. Once choices are taken away what is left ? 

Let's say you decide to jump out of a plane.  Personal liability.  Lets say you take a job in a factory that's using dangerous chemicals and don't disclose it.  10 years down the line you develop cancer and they hadn't fully reveale the risk?  Now you might sign on to do it anyway.  I would think that doesn't exclude the liability of the employer. 

It's not clear cut.  Most of us are in denial of what life at 50 without mobility and cognitive health really means.  Hard to really grasp it in your 20's.