Confidence in JD to get the QB position right moving forward

[kevinc855]

Two things can be true at once

1) JD has done a good job building a talented and exciting roster from nothing. 

2) In his most important pick of his career for the most important position on the field, he may of massively screwed up. 

Regardless, JD will be the GM moving forward here for years to come but still cannot complete his vision until this team has competent QB play. The reality is JD has drafted two bad QBs, one not in the league anymore with a 4th rounder and what is seeming to line up as a Bust in the second overall. Moreover, he brought in Flacco as an insurance policy which has had mixed reviews and signed Mike White which has also had mixed reviews. 

What is your confidence moving forward JD can get the right QB considering his track record in the position? 

[Ron Rico]

I have as much confidence in JD finding a QB as I do in pulling a name out of a hat. Both of us have the same odds we'll either pick Tom Brady, or Rick Mirer.

That's just the way it is with QB's. There is no other position that makes the transition from College to the NFL so difficult to predict. 

You either have it, or you don't. Nobody knows that until they actually take snaps in a real NFL game.

 

[Warfish]

50/50.

J.D. early was quite questionable.

J.D. later on has been very good.

At this time I'd be willing to give him another shot.

But I don't think, personally, that a draft pick is the answer.  A Veteran QB is.  A Vinny Testaverde for the 2020's.

[kevinc855]

6 minutes ago, Coquito said:

I have as much confidence in JD finding a QB as I do in pulling a name out of a hat. Both of us have the same odds we'll either pick Tom Brady, or Rick Mirer.

That's just the way it is with QB's. There is no other position that makes the transition from College to the NFL so difficult to predict. 

You either have it, or you don't. Nobody knows that until they actually take snaps in a real NFL game.

 

I guess with that summary why even have a scouting dept or evaluation process. Accountability when you get it right, and when you get it wrong. 

Didn't we just cover this accountability thing with Zach?

[Ron Rico]

18 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I guess with that summary why even have a scouting dept or evaluation process. Accountability when you get it right, and when you get it wrong. 

Didn't we just cover this accountability thing with Zach?

Perhaps I used hyperbole, but let me elaborate the point. 

Thursday morning, April 29, 2021, on a separate piece of paper, I wrote the names: Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Trevor Lawrence, Mac Jones, and Davis Mills, put them in a basket and shook it up, and pick one out and it was Davis Mills, you would think I was an idiot. 

Well, Davis Mills was a 3rd round pick for the Houston Texans. He's currently their starter. Go look up his stats. Way better than our Number 2. Not sure about everybody else but--- the point remains that sometimes dumb luck > scouting, evaluation el al

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

The thing that irks me about the ZW pick was that fields was the clear cut #2 best qb in that draft all college football season. Then the season ended and Zach shot up draft boards. 

what’s my point? I have no idea. JD got duped but I’m willing to give him another crack at it. I think he’s earned it. Just hope he doesn’t over think it next time or else he’s a goner.

[Claymation]

Whether he drafts another QB, signs a vet or sticks with Zach, he will have to take a long look at the OC and the QB Coach. They were hired to develop a QB and so far they have failed.

[kevinc855]

7 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

The thing that irks me about the ZW pick was that fields was the clear cut #2 best qb in that draft all college football season. Then the season ended and Zach shot up draft boards. 

what’s my point? I have no idea. JD got duped but I’m willing to give him another crack at it. I think he’s earned it. Just hope he doesn’t over think it next time or else he’s a goner.

JD seemed to way to easily overlook the level of competition at BYU or the condensed COVID season for his "arm talent" Guess he thought the talent could be coached into NFL play. Then they hire a couple guys in their early 30's to be OC and QB coach. The whole thing has been puzling since the draft IMHO

[Bleedin Green]

I've avoided the JD topic lately because I know some are hyper-defensive of him.  However, I don't actually dislike him, but do think he's been a bit overrated around here in his time, as while he has certainly shown himself to be better than many of his predecessors with the team, more often than not he's actually shown himself to be pretty good but not great on the relative scale of NFL GMs.

For as much as he was hyped up as the guy to build the team through the draft, other than AVT his first 2 drafts are looking really bad at the moment.  This year's definitely looks to be an improvement, but we also can't get too far ahead of ourselves with that either when it ever comes to rookies, and the curve they are all naturally graded on.  I think there's really no question about Sauce being a home run at this point, but then you have a guy like Garrett Wilson who I do like so far, but already celebrating him as a huge win is based on assumptions that he'll continue to get better, which doesn't always happen (see: Mims).  If by his 4th year his performance looks identical to this year's, not a lot of folks are going to be happy with that.

With all of that said, the flip side is the one area he deserves some serious credit is in the ROI he's managed to get for the mid-tier free agents that have helped to cover a number of those missed picks.  As rather than going for the big money guys, he's buying "low" (on a relative FA scale of course) for guys who are often outplaying their contracts.  The only difficulty that comes with that is these guys are not interested in signing long-term deals at those prices, as they understandably want to come back for their big paydays, meaning within the next year or two JD is going to have to figure out whether he's actually willing to throw big dollars at some of these guys, then making him more heavily dependent on the draft, or if he thinks he can continually find the next guy who will out-earn his FA contract for a few years.  If he can keep pulling that off, it definitely offsets the draft troubles, but that's no easy task.

However, that right there is the long route to getting back to the original question.  Perhaps JD's biggest flaw in his 4 years has been his handling of the QB position being wildly different than any other position.  While that's not totally uncommon throughout the league, JD has taken it to a further extreme than most teams.  Darnold wasn't even his pick, but he made it pretty clear he was a believer in him at first, so made a point that Darnold was going to be unopposed as this team's QB.  Now for the past 2 years he's done the same for Wilson, clearly making a point of having no competition for the job.  I can actually accept the concept of a bust of a QB pick (although Wilson is a special level of awful, which is frightening), as infuriating as those can be, but his refusal to have any degree of insurance or hedge his bets even slightly makes it that much worse.  If he pulls a similar move this coming offseason it's going to cost him his job, and rightfully so.  But hopefully the amount of backlash going on for it right now will slap some sense into him, as there's plenty of people out there who could immediately bring legit competition to the position for the Jets if given the chance.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as he's over the past year or so started to show some learning from past mistakes, so hopefully that now translates over into QB as well.  In the end though, he needs to find both a legitimate interim solution while he keeps looking for the long-term answer, or the Jets seriously face the risk of this being another of their strong defensive and running teams that falls apart while trying to find the QB.  History has shown for the Jets, and really teams all across the league, that there's only so long you can keep a talented team together if your greatest weakness is the game's most important position.  If that happens, it's the end of a GM every time.

[KINGDIRK]

He’s our best GM in a long time. He missed on the QB. Big deal. Need I remind you guys who our last two GMs were. I tear up his contract and give him a new 4 year deal. Give him another shot to find a QB.

Long term stability at GM- we are allergic to it. 

[JetPotato]

I have no confidence that there is a single GM in the entire league that knows how to draft a QB. It's pure luck. Zach isn't the first guy drafted top 5 to absolutely suck. Tom Brady went in the 6th. 

How I judge Joe D's QB acquisition ability will be in this offseason, when I expect him to do whatever it takes to go get a decent veteran like a Jimmy G, while continuing to draft one every year until we luck into our Mahomes. If he fails to acquire an established top 15 guy, then it's a compete failure. All of the other good he has done is washed away if we continue to snap the ball to the worst guy in the league every year.

[FidelioJet]

Don't draft one.  

 

[kevinc855]

6 minutes ago, KINGDIRK said:

He missed on the QB. Big deal.

Think alot would disagree with you on this point. It could be the difference of being 8-2 or 6-4

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Coquito said:

I have as much confidence in JD finding a QB as I do in pulling a name out of a hat. Both of us have the same odds we'll either pick Tom Brady, or Rick Mirer.

That's just the way it is with QB's. There is no other position that makes the transition from College to the NFL so difficult to predict. 

You either have it, or you don't. Nobody knows that until they actually take snaps in a real NFL game.

 

I don't think this is a roster that you turn  to a rookie.  We need a veteran and I hope that is the direction JD looks.  Lamar (Probably a pipe dream that he reaches FA), JImmy G, Gardner MInshew, Geno Smith (can't believe I am saying that), Taylor Heinecke are all UFA next season.  Go get one of those guys or get a solid vet in trade.  Draft a guy day 2 or day 3 with some upside who does not have to start immediately. 

Let vet, rooke and Zach compete in camp and the best guy plays.

[bla bla bla]

I have more confidence in the GM and staff then I have ever had. Easily the most talented team we've had in over a decade and hes finding it everywhere. Trades, draft, FA, waivers - not to mention his contracts have been sound. I'd give him another crack at it.

- Jimmy G to win now. I'd endorse Lamar if Joe D thinks he can play at his current level the next 3-4 years but I do have my reservations.

- 3rd round project QB to groom

- Hope Wilson can figure it out from sitting and becomes insurance or trade bait

[peekskill68]

46 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Whether he drafts another QB, signs a vet or sticks with Zach, he will have to take a long look at the OC and the QB Coach. They were hired to develop a QB and so far they have failed.

I'm not sure you can "teach" someone to process the field.  Either you have it or you don't.  As to the footwork, arm angle stuff, you don't think LaFleur and Calabrese aren't beating the sh!t out of him in the film room?   

[KINGDIRK]

22 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Think alot would disagree with you on this point. It could be the difference of being 8-2 or 6-4

I shouldn’t say “big deal”. It is. But overall as a GM he has been very good. I think everything else he has done outweighs the miss on Zach. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

They're going to ride Zach as an option until it doesn't make sense for his rookie deal. The mistake we're avoiding is probably not having a viable QB option besides him and not giving Zach an extension unless he suddenly has a breakout season.

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

They're going to ride Zach as an option until it doesn't make sense for his rookie deal. The mistake we're avoiding is probably not having a viable QB option besides him and not giving Zach an extension unless he suddenly has a breakout season.

He’s been put on notice and possibly benched halfway through his second year. Not so sure it’s a done deal he’s on the roster another 2 full seasons 

[Wit]

He whiffed on a back up and on a QB1, not much confidence. I will say that he seems to be learning from mistakes and his drafts keep getting better. QB is also so freaking hard to get right. Its not enough to have the physical attributes, or have the brains or processing, but to know who can play with 300 pound lineman coming at you. Zach literally has the yips because he cant process in a real game. 

[THE BARON]

2 hours ago, Coquito said:

I have as much confidence in JD finding a QB as I do in pulling a name out of a hat. Both of us have the same odds we'll either pick Tom Brady, or Rick Mirer.

That's just the way it is with QB's. There is no other position that makes the transition from College to the NFL so difficult to predict. 

You either have it, or you don't. Nobody knows that until they actually take snaps in a real NFL game.

 

Agree.  The draft is more or less a crap shoot, especially with QBs.  There is also the circumstances to consider as well.  One program may be an ideal fit for a QB prospect where as others would be a disaster  Thousands of moving parts.  Nothing is cut and dry. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Just now, kevinc855 said:

He’s been put on notice and possibly benched halfway through his second year. Not so sure it’s a done deal he’s on the roster another 2 full seasons 

Wasn't saying that he is. In my opinion he actually gets a legit competition in next year's training camp, which is ultimately progress since they've basically fallen over backwards to give him the job despite him sh*tting the bed every week. The chances they draft a rookie QB again this upcoming draft is low. I'd think a vet QB option is more likely. Like someone alluded to the fifth year option is going to be telling as a bar for how commited they feel about him.

 

 

[GreenFish]

JD has been a good GM. Im happy he’s our guy. I think he pairs really well with Saleh.

He hasn't been perfect. Botched the QB and LT position.

I trust that, on average, our FO and CS will continue to make good decision.

I personally think the Jets need a veteran QB at this point. Bryce Young is the only guy I would draft and he is going 1st overall.

[Fantasy Island]

JD has drafted 2 QB's both were Sugar Honey Iced Tea.   It's go time for a vet.  Try White and Strev to see what they got.  Say goodbye to Flacco.  Keep the better of the two as the back up.

Sign the Vet,  Make Zach the 3rd stringer and have to earn his way up in practice and so on.

I prefer just trading him, but there will be no takers.

[Averagejetsfan1421]

I love how fans expect jets to hit on every single draft pick they choose, do you people not look around the league and see the draft is a crapshoot ? 
 

I give Douglas 2 more years and we should have a competitive year in and year out football team.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I'd be confident that JD, Saleh, and LeFluer learned a ton from these past 2 seasons and know what they need to make this offense move. At least I hope.

[BroadwayJoe12]

The biggest mistake he could make, that previous management made, was not acknowledging the error and then doubling down on it. He’s not the solution, admit it and move on. Don’t ostrich yourself, ignore the data and everything you’ve seen and just hope he plays better. 

[WILLY]

45 minutes ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

I love how fans expect jets to hit on every single draft pick they choose, do you people not look around the league and see the draft is a crapshoot ? 
 

 

unfortunately true. Sometimes you swing and miss.  First round QB bust rate - 40% (bleacher report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

[nj meadowlands]

This is kinda what it comes down to for me.  For any team that doesn't have the Franchise QB on the roster, and won't be picking high in the draft, it's kind of a hopeless feeling.  You don't usually find great answers in FA.

But we have seen enough from Douglas to have a glimmer of hope that he's got something up his sleeve.

[kevinc855]

2 minutes ago, WILLY said:

unfortunately true. Sometimes you swing and miss.  First round QB bust rate - 40% (bleacher report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

Which confuses me why some teams are so willing to tank for unproven college talent. Give me the proven veteran anyday 

[Jet Life]

Get Jimmy G in the building and all is forgiven 

[Sonny Werblin]

I have total confidence in JD finding a QB because it is either Zach Wilson, if he proves himself worthy for the remainder of the season or Gardner Minshew, who totally fits the bill for a JD free agent signing which only includes an old player if no young options are available.  JD is not signing a grizzled 30+ or 40+ year old QB. He is looking for a longer lasting answer at QB and someone who can give the Jets O an identity. That player is extraordinarily obvious. It is Gardner Minshew. So, the Jets 2023 QB will be Wilson, if he proves himself worthy, or GW. JD is not looking for short term fixes and retreads known for their success elsewhere. He is looking for players who will make their names known as a NY Jet.

[Trotter]

5 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

Get Jimmy G in the building and all is forgiven 

Jimmy G is going to have an interesting off season. Does SF want to keep him even though Lance was drafted #3?

If yes, I think you are moving away from Trey.

Does Jimmy want to leave since SF kind of did not want him? Bright lights of NYC?

Guy has the world by the balls right now - good for him