Lawson reworks contract, frees 2023 cap space

[jgb]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'm not saying we shouldn't extend people.  Personally, I don't trust Quinnen's efforts and production will increase after a hefty pay extension.  I personally think he will disappear.  Just me. 

Why? 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My 2 cents (in terms of total words, $10 worth of my 2 cents ?

1. We'll see if it was smart or not. The Jets had 3 young edge rushers; we'll see this year how necessary it was. If they go all the way, I'm of the "by any means necessary" mindset myself. I see this as a less than enthusiastic endorsement of last year's drafted ends, especially seeing how JFM lines up at end plenty himself. 

2. Yes, I guess. See point 1 above. This isn't elite edge rusher pay, but Lawson's not an elite edge rusher in the first place. He's an edge with 7 sacks in 17 games, who averages 2 (combined) tackles per game. I don't know what his going rate would be, tbh.

3. Don't get excited about the incentives yet; they may be something that shouldn't be hard to attain '23 that he didn't attain on paper in '22 (e.g. playing 1 snap in the postseason; basically that'd be a team incentive, where Lawson gets it if he's not on IR). 

4. The $8MM is all bonus, spread among this season plus 4 additional, voidable seasons (spread over 5 seasons total, 80% of which will accelerate to 2024 if this is still his last season here). It doesn't obviously help a crazy amount with Rodgers; all it does is make it look like less of AR's 2024 hit is siloed under Rodgers instead of dead cap for Lawson. It's the same total, whether it was salary or bonus. The optics are better if Rodgers has his hits leveled out a bit more, even if the Rodgers-Lawson totals (in both seasons) end up to the same amount. 

5. The issue with Mosley isn't his redone contract's structure; it's his outright compensation. If he's paid way above market at $17MM it makes no difference to me if the individual year's hit is $17MM, $21MM, or "restructured" down so it's like $5MM this year (pushing the balance off to the future, like they did with him last summer). He can't be restructured yet, unless I have the rules wrong (totally possible): he can't restructure within 365 days of his prior restructure, which came in August. But while people are arguing the merits of QW's value being $30MM or $25MM, this ****er is easily overpaid by more than that disparity.

On #5, I should have been more clear in terms of a pay cut, not pushing money to future years.

Lawson's new contract is a pay cut, where he went from $15M+ salary to a total of $8/9M to up $12M based on incentives.

I personally believe they should be having similar discussions with Mosley because he too is paid well above market.  That said (written), the competition at middle linebacker is not what it is at Edge.  But I'd be delighted if we learned in the next couple weeks that Mosley agreed to a $5M pay cut.

 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

On #5, I should have been more clear in terms of a pay cut, not pushing money to future years.

Lawson's new contract is a pay cut, where he went from $15M+ salary to a total of $8/9M to up $12M based on incentives.

I personally believe they should be having similar discussions with Mosley because he too is paid well above market.  That said (written), the competition at middle linebacker is not what it is at Edge.  But I'd be delighted if we learned in the next couple weeks that Mosley agreed to a $5M pay cut.

 

Not disagreeing but why is it cool when a team tries to cajole a player into a pay cut despite a contract but a player becomes darth vader when he agitates for a raise?

[jtomm]

28 minutes ago, jbt said:

I miss the days of having crappy players and lots of cap space.  those were the best of times

..and   of times    

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Just now, jgb said:

Not disagreeing but why is it cool when a team tries to cajole a player into a pay cut despite a contract but a player becomes darth vader when he agitates for a raise?

Completely agree with your sentiment.  I personally think there's a place for both.

The context here incorporating my own world view:

1. This was a contract that pre-dated Joe D, not one he negotiated himself

2. Mosley has been overpaid for a couple years now

3. At $12M instead of $17M, he'll most likely continue to be overpaid

4. Given how the NFL works, we are giving him a premium to what he would be getting paid if we decided to cut him -- which is a real life scenario

5. Therefore, it can still be considered a win / win.  Jets keep a player they value / Mosley continues to earn big money.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also on board with restructuring a rookie's contract no more than a year early.  I believe it becomes too much of a slippery slope to do it too early because of sample size (can Sauce repeat his year 1 performance) and because the lower contract is a major benefit of building through the draft.  In return, the rookie gets some guaranteed protections if they don't perform (at all).

Q falls into the above bucket.  He has only had 1 great year but I feel he has earned a reworked deal and is a good example of the good things that happen when draft picks work to become elite.  I personally like that as a cultural incentive.

Are there inequities?  Damn right, I would never argue there are not.   

[Sperm Edwards]

27 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

On #5, I should have been more clear in terms of a pay cut, not pushing money to future years.

Lawson's new contract is a pay cut, where he went from $15M+ salary to a total of $8/9M to up $12M based on incentives.

I personally believe they should be having similar discussions with Mosley because he too is paid well above market.  That said (written), the competition at middle linebacker is not what it is at Edge.  But I'd be delighted if we learned in the next couple weeks that Mosley agreed to a $5M pay cut.

 

That won't likely happen in the next couple weeks. He restructured on Sept 2, 2022 so - in the absence of cutting & then re-signing him - I think that 9/2/2023 (or maybe it's 9/3/2023) is the earliest time they can again restructure him.

I think that's correct but am not 100% sure so anyone who knows for certain please comment. 

Anyway it's just as well because they're not flush with ILBs right now & they won't be in a position to put a squeeze on him without having a "or else" contingency starter ready to go. So it's just as well that they get one more summer's look at who else is there. TBH Kwon could be that contingency, seeing how his best years were inside (before his injuries started piling up). I don't think Saleh is that comfortable with rocking that boat, though that's why HCs typically aren't also the GMs. 

[extmenace]

5 hours ago, oatmeal said:

The Saints paid Carr new money with negative cap space. This isn’t a valid excuse for JD 

Rodgers has a 107 million 2024 cap number….the saints / carr deal isn’t a similar situation. 

[Sperm Edwards]

27 minutes ago, extmenace said:

Rodgers has a 107 million 2024 cap number….the saints / carr deal isn’t a similar situation. 

Obviously Rodgers has agreed to play for just $30MM/year. They're just working out the structure now.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Obviously Rodgers has agreed to play for just $30MM/year. They're just working out the structure now.  

I would sign up now to play for ‘just’ $30MM per year.

I might regret that the second I see a 340 pound Defensive Tackle bull rush Tomlinson and throw him aside on his way to my sorry ass.

That would probably match the fear I felt getting carjacked at age 19 or falling asleep at the wheel and crashing thru a telephone pole at 27.  

[UntouchableCrew]

I honestly don't understand Jets fans who don't want to pay QW. 

We haven't signed a first round pick to an extension in 7 years. We finally draft a guy who looks like a total stud -- a First Team All Pro who garnered a DPOY first place vote, a guy who was voted team MVP by his teammates and the "good guy award" by his teammates who completely transformed the defense (see below)...

When Williams was on the field, per TruMedia, the Jets had a 9.8 percent sack rate and 38.1 percent pressure rate, which would rank second and third league-wide, respectively. When Williams was off the field, the sack rate dropped to 3.6 percent and the pressure rate to 31.9 percent, which would rank 32nd and 21st. 

...and there are Jets fans who don't want to pay him because their gut instinct is that he's going to "stop trying" once we gets the contract? What are we even talking about here?

 

[varjet]

4 hours ago, David Harris said:

Should we be concerned at the amount of money that has been pushed into future years.  The Jets have reworked every single big contract they have outside of Corey Davis. A lot of money pushed to future years and a lot of void years added. 

This includes:

Carl Lawson

Alan Lazard

JFM

CJ Mosely

Duane Brown

Uzomah

Conklin

 

What about Rodgers’ $110m next year?

[Jet_Engine1]

7 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Two words:  Mo Wilkerson.

Quinnen seems to be showing a lot of grievance about not getting paid.  Guys like that usually disappear when they do. 

Quinnen Williams and MO Wilk.

 

I couldn't think of 2 more different mindsets and personalities if I tried. 

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Not disagreeing but why is it cool when a team tries to cajole a player into a pay cut despite a contract but a player becomes darth vader when he agitates for a raise?

Economically speaking, because what a team is paying the player for is the right to (1) his services at the specified price each year or (2) to cut him and only pay the guaranteed money. If a player wanted a fully guaranteed contract, the team would pay less.

But that's economically speaking. On a moral level, screw that, and players should get what they can when they can, especially given how short the typical career is and how dangerous the sport is.

[CanadienJetsFan]

14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I honestly don't understand Jets fans who don't want to pay QW. 

We haven't signed a first round pick to an extension in 7 years. We finally draft a guy who looks like a total stud -- a First Team All Pro who garnered a DPOY first place vote, a guy who was voted team MVP by his teammates and the "good guy award" by his teammates who completely transformed the defense (see below)...

When Williams was on the field, per TruMedia, the Jets had a 9.8 percent sack rate and 38.1 percent pressure rate, which would rank second and third league-wide, respectively. When Williams was off the field, the sack rate dropped to 3.6 percent and the pressure rate to 31.9 percent, which would rank 32nd and 21st. 

...and there are Jets fans who don't want to pay him because their gut instinct is that he's going to "stop trying" once we gets the contract? What are we even talking about here?

 

I’m sure most fans want Q signed. So long as it is a fair deal. If he’s being unreasonable, then simply franchise tag him. ( next year that is)
Personally, I think they’ll get a deal done by training camp.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, CanadienJetsFan said:

I’m sure most fans want Q signed. So long as it is a fair deal. If he’s being unreasonable, then simply franchise tag him. ( next year that is)
Personally, I think they’ll get a deal done by training camp.

 

The market has been set. There have been like four top DTs that have signed extensions. Not a ton of wiggle room for either side -- he's gonna get slightly more than all these other guys.

[Jetsfan80]

Any game where we're up by 4 or more points entering the 4th quarter, that's ballgame.

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Embed.

Inbed.

Onbed..?

[CanadienJetsFan]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The market has been set. There have been like four top DTs that have signed extensions. Not a ton of wiggle room for either side -- he's gonna get slightly more than all these other guys.

That’s a fair deal. But what if he’s unreasonable? ( like asking for Darnold money)

If so, just franchise tag him. It’s nothing personal , just business.

[PepPep]

8 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

2. People really need to learn how to imbed tweet links...it's a super simple process and so much easier vs. taking a screenshot and uploading the pic.

3. Plug your phone in.

[docdhc]

3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Completely agree with your sentiment.  I personally think there's a place for both.

The context here incorporating my own world view:

1. This was a contract that pre-dated Joe D, not one he negotiated himself

2. Mosley has been overpaid for a couple years now

3. At $12M instead of $17M, he'll most likely continue to be overpaid

4. Given how the NFL works, we are giving him a premium to what he would be getting paid if we decided to cut him -- which is a real life scenario

5. Therefore, it can still be considered a win / win.  Jets keep a player they value / Mosley continues to earn big money.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also on board with restructuring a rookie's contract no more than a year early.  I believe it becomes too much of a slippery slope to do it too early because of sample size (can Sauce repeat his year 1 performance) and because the lower contract is a major benefit of building through the draft.  In return, the rookie gets some guaranteed protections if they don't perform (at all).

Q falls into the above bucket.  He has only had 1 great year but I feel he has earned a reworked deal and is a good example of the good things that happen when draft picks work to become elite.  I personally like that as a cultural incentive.

Are there inequities?  Damn right, I would never argue there are not.   

Isn’t Mosley’s 17million guaranteed?  Lawson’s wasn’t that’s why he could have been cut and why he accepted less. Mosely has leverage. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

Economically speaking, because what a team is paying the player for is the right to (1) his services at the specified price each year or (2) to cut him and only pay the guaranteed money. If a player wanted a fully guaranteed contract, the team would pay less.

But that's economically speaking. On a moral level, screw that, and players should get what they can when they can, especially given how short the typical career is and how dangerous the sport is.

Counterpoint — a commercial contract for personal services is not a bill of servitude and men may break such contracts as they desire so long as they are willing to bear the economic consequences of doing so.

[hawk]

8 hours ago, extmenace said:

Rodgers reworked deal still needs to be finalized you'd think. Structuring a Q deal with Rodgers temporary cap numbers not settled would make things a bit tricky.

Reworking qs deal will help in 2023.

[Alworth]

We understand that the signing bonus portion of the changed Lawson contract is being spread forward, But the changed contract is a haircut for Lawson and pure net cap room gain of at least 3 million for the Jets. In light of that, we should view this reworking as a good thing, not a mortgaging  of the future. Kind of obvious, but I'm not sure that has been acknowledged by some of the posters in this thread.

[C Mart]

7 hours ago, Jets4Life1979 said:

You have money to go and bring Kwon back now

Havent seen such love for a player here since Deontay Burnett 

[Larz]

If this tweet is real, considering he played so soon after re injuring the Achilles last year, ya gotta love this guy. 
 

 

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Quinnen Williams and MO Wilk.

 

I couldn't think of 2 more different mindsets and personalities if I tried. 

We shall see.  Hope you are right.

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Two words:  Mo Wilkerson.

Quinnen seems to be showing a lot of grievance about not getting paid.  Guys like that usually disappear when they do. 

This is based off saying he hoped to have a deal before otas and him changing his Twitter profile. Yeah big time concerns you know man! Lol cmon.

[jgb]

5 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I would sign up now to play for ‘just’ $30MM per year.

I might regret that the second I see a 340 pound Defensive Tackle bull rush Tomlinson and throw him aside on his way to my sorry ass.

That would probably match the fear I felt getting carjacked at age 19 or falling asleep at the wheel and crashing thru a telephone pole at 27.  

And I’d star in a movie for free but professionals who are actually good at it expect market rate for their services 

[NYJCAP2]

8 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Yes 2023 and 2024 are all in.........2025 and on be dammned for now. 

Give this team some legitimacy first 

Yes 23 and 24 all in.

25 and 26 look buried but roster cap looks like it opens back up in 27.

[LIJetsFan]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Can't wait for a few years down the road when we have to pay Breece and AVT and Sauce and Garret Wilson and we have pushed all this money liability down the road to coincide with them wanting to get paid.

I hate rampant contract redos because they just shift the liability down the road.  The odd time you do it but if you are doing it now becasue we do not have the funds for Quinnen that is less than ideal.  And we are not even considering the Rodgers contract liability going forward.

It's the NFL.  The bold above is just the way a GM has to play it.  Keep pushing it down the road forever and the cap goes up each year to keep things moving.  Just hope your GM hits a lot more than he misses and so far so good with JD.    

[Fantasy Island]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

Not disagreeing but why is it cool when a team tries to cajole a player into a pay cut despite a contract but a player becomes darth vader when he agitates for a raise?

Because unlike the NBA and MLB there is a salary cap.  You want to win or you want the biggest contract.  It's a numbers game.  When you get paid the most , your team falters.

1 outlier Patrick Mahomes.

Whom we didn't pick.

God, I hate McCagnan.

I hope his coffee always comes out cold.

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Because unlike the NBA and MLB there is a salary cap.  You want to win or you want the biggest contract.  It's a numbers game.  When you get paid the most , your team falters.

1 outlier Patrick Mahomes.

Whom we didn't pick.

God, I hate McCagnan.

I hope his coffee always comes out cold.

Don’t think that fully explains it, otherwise the discussions would be rational and economic. Instead it’s very personal, “Greedy! Disloyal! Ungrateful! Eff him!,” and my favorite, “B-b-b-but he’s under contract!!!” However, no one pretends this is a moral or ethical issue when a team rips up a contract to cut a dude. And when a player on a rival team expresses this desirable so-called team-player behavior by taking less than he’s worth? Do we laud that behavior? No, of course we don’t. We rage and accuse the other team of cheating and paying the player under the table.

If the issue here was only economic, instead we would see, “The player may be worth what he is asking and is entitled to ask for it, but as a fan, I hope the Jets can convince him to take less for the overall health of the team.”

Personally, I don’t think a player should ever take below his market value. It’s the GM’s job to manage and players to play and agents to maximize their economic value. Let all sides push for their own interest and the chips will fall where they may. But maybe I’m the oddball here because I truly respect how Revis played the business side of things. Dude was a legend and one of my favorite Jets ever.

Maccagnan definitely sucked.

[Dunnie]

15 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

When Williams was on the field, per TruMedia, the Jets had a 9.8 percent sack rate and 38.1 percent pressure rate, which would rank second and third league-wide, respectively. When Williams was off the field, the sack rate dropped to 3.6 percent and the pressure rate to 31.9 percent, which would rank 32nd and 21st. 

 

 

This is an indictment of the guys playing behind Q imho. Q deserves a good offer (backloaded) ...not a generational market setting offer.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Dunnie

[C Mart]

 

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Two words:  Mo Wilkerson.

Quinnen seems to be showing a lot of grievance about not getting paid.  Guys like that usually disappear when they do. 

Two bigger words: “different people”.

Also different points of their careers.  Q has another contract to play for, Mo not so much