rangerous Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Kleckineau said: What a bum he has turned into. He spent most of this game getting up off his back. Official stat line? 1/2 tackle Buh bye. maybe but once again it seems like bowles just can't motivate the vets. leo knows he's coming up on his option year and knows he can go anywhere and get paid. and why should he care so much when the players like johnson and claiborne aren't doing their part. it becomes a ripple effect. like the guys on sny said, when anderson got his unsportsmanlike penalty he should've been sat down for a few plays. bowles is too much of a players coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genot Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said: Leo was over Drafted. He's a run stuffing 3-4 DE. As for the double team narrative. J.J Watt, Arron Donald get double teamed. The difference is they often break the double team, and make plays. Leo does not, trade him get that second back we paid for Sam. I don't think he's been coached up. His technique is poor. What makes him an average, above average player, is his strength and athleticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelScott Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 11 hours ago, bealeb319 said: He will be franchise tagged and get one more year to prove himself? Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app Isn't he already on his 5th year tender next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 If if Williams was great, which he is not, he still should have been traded last year. I have said multiple times DT’s very rarely play at the value of that second big contract. Not unless they have a lot of talent around them to keep double teams off them. This past offseason Williams could have netted us a decent return. Now we won’t get anything. The right move is to just release him and spend the savings on offense. We continuously find good DT’s in the late rounds, we do not need to be wasting heavy resources on DT’s. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Snell41 said: If if Williams was great, which he is not, he still should have been traded last year. I have said multiple times DT’s very rarely play at the value of that second big contract. Not unless they have a lot of talent around them to keep double teams off them. This past offseason Williams could have netted us a decent return. Now we won’t get anything. The right move is to just release him and spend the savings on offense. We continuously find good DT’s in the late rounds, we do not need to be wasting heavy resources on DT’s. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yeah we missed our window. Could have been like the Dante Fowler situation where the other team gets to try him out or make a push before th 5th year option kicks in. $14million is way too much for Leo and the only team in the League that would pay him that is the Jets because Mac has a biased point of view of protecting his image and defending his draft pick to the bitter end. THIS is the most important reason we need Macc replaced and an outsider brought in that can give an honest/unbiased assessment of the entire roster and make moves. I’d be all for rebuilding with someone half decent and with somewhat of a vision. We keep Macc, we will be the new Browns and lose even more fans and rightfully so since ownership is just insulting and taking their money without a care or shred of concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Williams is the best DL man we have put some decent players around him add a pass rusher and this kid excels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Williams is the best DL man we have put some decent players around him add a pass rusher and this kid excels. Put decent players around Snacks and he’s a great DT. And he wasn’t drafted in the 1st round and even his “big payday” was not absurd. DT is not a position to build around in today’s league, and it’s not a position to be spending 1st round picks or high dollar contracts on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Williams has been a monster disappointment. However, I do think DL is similar to OL in that your play can be greatly impacted by the overall effectiveness of your entire unit. The Jets unit, is absolutely terrible. Williams is the only legitimate player on the unit. He'll be a player as soon as he leaves this god forsaken franchise. I'm confident in that. Put him on a line with just at least one legitimate threat to take some attention away and he'll be good. Not excusing him, he's been terrible but it's really hard to judge anyone on this D with the most incompetent coaching staff I've ever come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, JiF said: Williams has been a monster disappointment. However, I do think DL is similar to OL in that your play can be greatly impacted by the overall effectiveness of your entire unit. The Jets unit, is absolutely terrible. Williams is the only legitimate player on the unit. He'll be a player as soon as he leaves this god forsaken franchise. I'm confident in that. Put him on a line with just at least one legitimate threat to take some attention away and he'll be good. Not excusing him, he's been terrible but it's really hard to judge anyone on this D with the most incompetent coaching staff I've ever come across. He's a 3-4 DE, and never going to be a dynamic player. He's solid that's about it. If your Dlinemen don't get you at least 8 sacks per year, do not pay them like an edge rusher. Trade Leo on his 5th year option for what you can get. We got a 2nd for Sheldon, so you never know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Remember when people were like "At least Maccagnan hits on his 1st rounders!" I get that the franchise sucks and the coaches ruined him, but was he even all that good back when he was trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said: I saw plenty of plays where he wasn’t. I think this excuse is way overblown. He gets doubled but who doesn’t? 3-4 D line is notorious for players getting doubled. I watched some of the game. I saw him handled one on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said: He's a 3-4 DE, and never going to be a dynamic player. He's solid that's about it. If your Dlinemen don't get you at least 8 sacks per year, do not pay them like an edge rusher. Trade Leo on his 5th year option for what you can get. We got a 2nd for Sheldon, so you never know.. Coming out, I thought he could be a Richard Seymore type. That guy was a stud, even without huge sacks. He's just another, slightly above average player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, chirorob said: I watched some of the game. I saw him handled one on one. Me too. The guy is so overrated by blind homers. He’s only good at absolute best. I think he’s looked bad for a good portion of this year but the total body of work says good. Good doesn’t mean $14mil for a season. He’s low end start level and can be replaced by cheap older vet DTs for a 3-4 just to occupy blocks. If we switch to a 4-3 maybe that changes everything but I’m disappointed in he effort, strength/conditioning and lack of leadership from this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRJETS Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 13 hours ago, usapaw said: Can you really hate him when he sees what a pathetic disgrace this organization is? We embrace losing and he has always been a winner. He wants to get out and I cant blame him. Management has to prove to the best players that they want to change but they don't seem to want to? Sso why does this make Leo a bad guy??? Because he is the first one to praise Bowles and always telling anybody who want to listen that he doesn't want to play for another coach. He prefer the laissez faire approach because he is fat lazy good for nothing and that is why he was on his knee all day yesterday and believe this dummy organization will make the same mistake to give him ton of money the same way Macc did to all the washed up vets in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Williams is not Wilkerson. Not even close. he never takes a play off and clearly cares about winning. You can slam his production but you can't slam his effort. Wilkerson tanked the moment he got his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I don't think he's a dog. He's just not as good as we thought he was when he came into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said: I don't think he's a dog. He's just not as good as we thought he was when he came into the league. If he wants 14-16 million a year, let him go elsewhere and get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said: He's a 3-4 DE, and never going to be a dynamic player. He's solid that's about it. If your Dlinemen don't get you at least 8 sacks per year, do not pay them like an edge rusher. Trade Leo on his 5th year option for what you can get. We got a 2nd for Sheldon, so you never know.. Maybe. I really dont know. I look him similarly like I look at Cam Heyward. Both huge disappointments coming into league (granted Heyward wasnt a top 10 pick) but as soon as you put some talent around him, the guys a handfull. Now that he has Dupree, Watt, Hargrave and Tuitt...Heyward can do his thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 9:10 PM, kmnj said: our players have no heart and leadership starts with coaching LW is slow and lazy and shows no heart I miss rex he would get all of these number one picks to play some defense They did play hard for Rex. Never seemed to be any attitude issues then. Trash Rex all you want, but every player wanted to play for him. I met Jeremy Kerley and Bilal a few years back when Rex was coach and they could not hide their enthusiasm for the guy and they were on offense. Rex struck a chord with players, Bowles is a nice guy, but does not inspire players. He should have stayed a coach under a HC who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Sad to say but Williams hasn't even touched Wilkerson's career. When Wilkerson "cared" he would get you 9-12 sacks, stop the run and sometimes be the best defender on the field. Williams hasn't approached that in four years, is it Bowles scheme or is Williams just a JAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, KRL said: Sad to say but Williams hasn't even touched Wilkerson's career. When Wilkerson "cared" he would get you 9-12 sacks, stop the run and sometimes be the best defender on the field. Williams hasn't approached that in four years, is it Bowles scheme or is Williams just a JAG? When will everyone just accept that he is a jag. He’s never been a big sack guy, does not make impact plays or cause turnovers. He’s just ok, period, a guy who dominated in college but lacks the quick twitch athleticism to excel in the nfl. We can only hope this draft will not have any more jag DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/3/2018 at 11:12 AM, JiF said: Maybe. I really dont know. I look him similarly like I look at Cam Heyward. Both huge disappointments coming into league (granted Heyward wasnt a top 10 pick) but as soon as you put some talent around him, the guys a handfull. Now that he has Dupree, Watt, Hargrave and Tuitt...Heyward can do his thing. Agreed. People cite JJ Watt and Aaron Donald as what Leo should be, but look at who they are playing next to every week. I’m not saying Leo can be those guys, but it’s not like there is anyone else on the Jets front 7 that scares an offense. This is kinda what Leo is though. I remember the pre draft chatter the year Leo was drafted, at one point he was the consensus #1 pick, I never bought in because he’s not an edge rusher and his “drop” in the draft was not a surprise for me. It was the same thing with Coples, everyone wanted him to be an edge rusher, but when I watched him at UNC he was always better as an interior rusher, not an edge guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Maybe when “the best player in the draft” falls to 6, he’s not actually “the best player in the draft.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Maybe when “the best player in the draft” falls to 6, he’s not actually “the best player in the draft.” Having the highest grade at your position is only 1 piece of the equation. The actual position that you play is the other. It’s not that difficult, unless you are Macc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla bla bla Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I have a hard time judging players with a lame duck coach. Everyone is in self preservation mode to save themselves for next season, like it or not that is the nature of the NFL. Guys will play all out while they have a chance to play for a playoff spot or for their next contract, honestly I don't really blame them. As for Leo specifically, I think it would be a mistake to trade him unless we are getting good value (2nd or better) reason being is I don't see anyway that we spend all our cap space. Sure $14M is a drastic overpay for his services but unless that $14M is going to actually be used I'd rather we just hold onto Leo for the sake of team continuity. Nothing would tick me off more than freeing up $14M in cap and going into next season with $30M under the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Maybe when “the best player in the draft” falls to 6, he’s not actually “the best player in the draft.” In hindsight, that analysis wasnt really that far off. Gurley, Gordon, Dupree...who else was better in that draft? Williams is probably still a top 5 player from that draft. Top 10, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Leo should be playing inside in a 4-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 There’s only about a handful of players that are worth keeping on this roster and I don’t even think Williams is one of them. How much does he think he’s worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, flgreen said: Leo should be playing inside in a 4-3 There is not team like the jets for miss using players. Both Rex and bowles fir all their D acumn seemed unable to adjust their schemes to meet their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson King Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I understand that so many of you blame the coaching because you hate the head coach and staff so much that you want to blame them for a cloudy day. Of course, I watch this team so I understand why you hate these coaches too. However, this is not high school, it is PROFESSIONAL football. If you are not being the best accountant, lawyer, grave digger, organized crime hitman, whatever, it is on you, not your boss. Now the game plan or play calls may not be optimum for a particular performance or style, but Williams is a DL player. It is not the coaches fault that he is being bested by the opposite OL. It is also not fair to compare him to Wilkerson, he shows up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 5:13 PM, Larz said: I noticed that too Couldn't stay on his feet He never got into great shape as an NFL player No way he gets paid and works harder Damn Shame but he's a stud and way more valuable than a "'back" like Gurley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 i think it's time i should necro my "Leonard Williams isn't the phenom you think he is" thread from pre-draft 2015.,..., guy was a no show at USC in certain tell tell statistical areas, particular on passing downs if i recall. He wasn't a QB pressuring beast in college and we over drafted him based on "circuit hype" and bullet-proof image that was forged, much the same way a lot of this dlineman who suddenly become the defacto best defensive player in the draft... ie. Bradley Chubb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe the Breadman Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 8:46 PM, More Cowbell said: The whole team mailed this one in except maybe Crowell. And Jason Myers. Plus throw in Andre Robert's. That would be about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 7:59 PM, T0mShane said: To be fair, Mo Wilkerson was a lot more talented than Leonard Williams. ..and a lot more lazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammagen Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 8:00 PM, Scoop24 said: Lol it’s funny how 3 all pro caliber dlinemen suddenly can’t play under Bowles and Rodgers .. sheldon seems to have regained form in Minnesota tho this was my point earlier but someone argued that. this on the staff and the way they are using him.Players do not forget how to play...the scheme is not built to their strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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