What the Jets SHOULD do, rather than what they WILL do (according to one mock)

[PepPep]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

None of these OL are good enough to be a top 3 pick.

I get that we need to improve the line, but some people are going overboard now. There's no Joe Thomas type LT who's a projected top 3 pick or something like that. 

Like it or not, the value at our spot is DL or OLB. 

If we trade back? Fine, get Jonah or Taylor. But Allen, Bosa, or Q. Williams is the pick if we stay at 3. 

Completely agree. I think Jet fans are also going overboard with how bad our O-line is. They were mainly terrible in the run game. They were ranked middle of the pack in Pass Protection. Now they got Bell and Osemele, that should definitely improve the run game. 

Fact is Taylor probably couldn't outplay Beachum this year and take his starting spot anyway. 

If they trade down, yes, makes sense to go OT. I actually prefer Jonah. 

But its funny to me how Jet fans have been clamoring for an elite Pass Rusher and finally we have a perfect opportunity to get an elite pass rusher in the draft and Jet fans want to reach for an OT, one that I personally have no faith in being able to step in and be an impact player right away. 

And why is it that if the Jets don't draft an O-lineman in the first 2 rounds they are 'ignoring' the O-line. 

So if they get a starting caliber C and talented OT who may need a couple of years to develop in the 3d round, after taking a much needed blue chip Pass Rushing prospect, that's ignoring the o-line? 

[CanadaSteve]

10 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

OL is the way to go. I wouldn't worry though. If we can't trade back we will end up taking Allen. Macc can't override that much value.  

Not at three dude.....IF we want someone like Jonah or Jawaan, trade down and pick up extra picks.  They will be there.  Even if they are not, we can trade down into the low 20's and pick up a boat load of picks, then grab one of the top Centres.

In NO way shape or form should we over reach for Jonah Williams at three.

[JustInFudge]

Jawaan Taylor is not #3 overall pick worthy. Nothing about his game even says top 10.  Talk about an insane reach. 

[tuffhand]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

Vernon Gholston.

Flowers was drafted to fill a need. Gholston was drafted because Mike T fell in love with him.

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, tuffhand said:

Flowers was drafted to fill a need. Gholston was drafted because Mike T fell in love with him.

so?  Both were early 1st round monstrous busts.  By posting "Erik Flowers",  your point seems to be that the Jets should not to go OL early because the Jets could find themselves in a similar situation as the Giants had with the Flowers disaster.  My point is that an early Edge pick is just as likely to bust majorly as an early OT, for example the Vernon Gholston disaster.  The motives behind the choice are wholly irrelevant.

 

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Fact is Taylor probably couldn't outplay Beachum this year and take his starting spot anyway. 

Totally agree.  What makes people think Taylor is an upgrade to Beachum for the upcoming season?  You have an adequate player at LT already under contract and are force fitting a need by over drafting an O-lineman at #3 vs. Edge/DL where the bulk of the talent and upside is...

[GreenFish]

Josh Allen is more likely to be Anthony Barr than he is Khalil Mack. Barr is a good player but we will likely want more from the #3 Pick. I don’t trust Bosa can stay healthy. And Quinnen can become Leo; a very good player but maybe not top 5 worthy. 

There’s really nobody in this draft I’m running to the podium for. This doesn’t mean reach for a OT. But it means Macc needs to trade back even at a small discount. The draft value chart has to be more flat this year than in years pass. 

Burns and Oliver could easily become the best D players in this draft and they might go between 5-15. 

Do what you can to trade back Macc.

[PepPep]

29 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Josh Allen is more likely to be Anthony Barr than he is Khalil Mack. Barr is a good player but we will likely want more from the #3 Pick. I don’t trust Bosa can stay healthy. And Quinnen can become Leo; a very good player but maybe not top 5 worthy. 

There’s really nobody in this draft I’m running to the podium for. This doesn’t mean reach for a OT. But it means Macc needs to trade back even at a small discount. The draft value chart has to be more flat this year than in years pass. 

Burns and Oliver could easily become the best D players in this draft and they might go between 5-15. 

Do what you can to trade back Macc.

I get your general thinking here but I don't understand why fans like to project players by comparing them to other players in the way you are doing. It's one thing to say player A is similar to player B because of XYZ. But what are you trying to say when you say Allen is more like Barr than Mack. I mean, I don't understand what that means. Allen is not like Barr and Barr is not like Mack. They are different players that had different roles and played in different system with different expectations and different coaches.

Barr is a versatile Pro Bowl caliber player and I would have no issue taking him top 5 in most drafts, assuming we had a need at the position. Mack is a player you rarely see. It's hard to compare him to anyone. He would clearly be the #1 overall pick in most drafts assuming the team did not have a need for a franchise QB. Allen is a versatile LB who can cover, rush the passer and hold his own against the run. He has great measurables, put up big numbers in school and looks to be a hard working player that has his head on straight. I mean, that's kind of all you really know about him without going into meticulous detail. He could be a bust and he could be a stud. Just like any player in any draft, there is no such thing as a sure Pro Bowler.

Leo is a Pro Bowl caliber player who has been a bit slower than expected to develop and has yet to make a huge impact. I don't know how you can possibly look at QW, say he could become Leo and in the same breath say he is not worthy of a top 5 pick. I don't know how you can suggest his ceiling is where Leo is now, there's just no way to know that.

To me, the general consensus is that QW, Bosa and Allen are the top 3 prospects in the draft EXCLUDING QBs. Period. Sure, everyone has their own opinion on it but that's how I see it. The Jets are GUARANTEED to have a shot at drafting one of them. Bosa looks to be the best pure pass rusher out of the 3 but has injury red flags and inability to stay on the field to show what he can do. Allen looks to be the most well rounded one of the 3 with the fewest red flags. QW is equally as well rounded in the sense that he can rush the passer and stuff the run but has one red flag being that he has not had consistent production over multiple years in college.

I would take any one of the three but am leaning towards Allen and Bosa. I have concerns over Bosas injuries but I believe the Jets really need a true pass rusher.     

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Not at three dude.....IF we want someone like Jonah or Jawaan, trade down and pick up extra picks.  They will be there.  Even if they are not, we can trade down into the low 20's and pick up a boat load of picks, then grab one of the top Centres.

In NO way shape or form should we over reach for Jonah Williams at three.

I understand your point and the truth is I can't see Macchiato's reaching that far for an OL of we can't trade back.  It's too close to the ledge should something go wrong. If a trade back doesn't happen, we are going with Allen or Bosa or whoever.  A trade back is optimal and I get the value thing. 

Me though? Without all of the stress of reality in the way? I I couldn't find a trade partner I go with the top OL on my board and say to hell with draft value. Then I do it again with my first 3rd rd pick. It's what I did for the Vikings in our Mock and I'd do it for the Jets. IT felt good for me to just get the O line firmed up to secure the investment in Cousins. We should do the same for Darnold. 

It's like paying your property taxes. No one wants to take the money out each year to take care of them, but it sure feels nice when it's done. Take care of the business of getting our O line done so Darnold can get to work. Then we can all play with all of the other fun pieces later. 

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, PepPep said:

Completely agree. I think Jet fans are also going overboard with how bad our O-line is. They were mainly terrible in the run game. They were ranked middle of the pack in Pass Protection. Now they got Bell and Osemele, that should definitely improve the run game. 

Fact is Taylor probably couldn't outplay Beachum this year and take his starting spot anyway. 

If they trade down, yes, makes sense to go OT. I actually prefer Jonah. 

But its funny to me how Jet fans have been clamoring for an elite Pass Rusher and finally we have a perfect opportunity to get an elite pass rusher in the draft and Jet fans want to reach for an OT, one that I personally have no faith in being able to step in and be an impact player right away. 

And why is it that if the Jets don't draft an O-lineman in the first 2 rounds they are 'ignoring' the O-line. 

So if they get a starting caliber C and talented OT who may need a couple of years to develop in the 3d round, after taking a much needed blue chip Pass Rushing prospect, that's ignoring the o-line? 

I have never clamored for a pass rusher.  I always want offense and we always disappoint until last year.  9 YEARS PREVIOUS NOTHING BUT DEFENSIVE BS.  Ten if you count Sanchez.

2008	6	Vernon Gholston	DE	Ohio State	5	2
	30	Dustin Keller	TE	Purdue	5	5	[32]
2009	5	Mark Sanchez	QB	USC	7*	5	[33]
2010	29	Kyle Wilson	CB	Boise State	6*	5	[34]
2011	30	Muhammad Wilkerson	DL	Temple University	5*	5	[35]
2012	16	Quinton Coples	DE	North Carolina	4*	4
2013	9	Dee Milliner	CB	Alabama	3*	3
	13	Sheldon Richardson	DT	Missouri	5*	4
2014	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville	2*	2
2015	6	Leonard Williams	DT	USC	3*	3*
2016	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State	2*	2*
2017	6	Jamal Adams	S	LSU	1*	1*	[36]
2018	3	Sam Darnold	QB	USC

 

Its time to help Sam out while he is on the cheap.  Vernon Gholston Jr.  we do not need!

[GreenFish]

3 hours ago, PepPep said:

I get your general thinking here but I don't understand why fans like to project players by comparing them to other players in the way you are doing. It's one thing to say player A is similar to player B because of XYZ. But what are you trying to say when you say Allen is more like Barr than Mack. I mean, I don't understand what that means. Allen is not like Barr and Barr is not like Mack. They are different players that had different roles and played in different system with different expectations and different coaches.

Barr is a versatile Pro Bowl caliber player and I would have no issue taking him top 5 in most drafts, assuming we had a need at the position. Mack is a player you rarely see. It's hard to compare him to anyone. He would clearly be the #1 overall pick in most drafts assuming the team did not have a need for a franchise QB. Allen is a versatile LB who can cover, rush the passer and hold his own against the run. He has great measurables, put up big numbers in school and looks to be a hard working player that has his head on straight. I mean, that's kind of all you really know about him without going into meticulous detail. He could be a bust and he could be a stud. Just like any player in any draft, there is no such thing as a sure Pro Bowler.     

Mack single handedly changes the flow of the game. There’s a difference in value of a player like him and Von Miller vs a guy like Barr. Barr, like Leo, is a very good player. But those guys aren’t impacting the game enough. The Vikings almost didn’t give Barr a second contract. And Leo’s second contract is up in the air. They are nice players and you need those guys. But they are not players like Revis who you can build a defense around. 

Im not so much comparing their playing styles. I’m comparing the value they bring to a team. Josh Allen seems like he is going to be a good versatile player. I just don’t see a guy that is going to cause the opposing QB to have nightmares. 

If we take Josh Allen, im expecting 2 years from now Jets fans arguing about hidden production.

[Gastineau Lives]

You want to help Sam Darnold? Get off the field on defense. This way he doesn't have to throw 40 times a game. 

[Joe Jets fan]

16 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Do you know what an Elite pass rusher really is in today's NFL?

A roughing the passer penalty.

Especially with two games each year against the biggest p#$$y ever, Tammy Brady.

 

I'll take OL in a trade down or at the 3 spot.

If that’s true why do you need a good OL?

[tuffhand]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

so?  Both were early 1st round monstrous busts.  By posting "Erik Flowers",  your point seems to be that the Jets should not to go OL early because the Jets could find themselves in a similar situation as the Giants had with the Flowers disaster.  My point is that an early Edge pick is just as likely to bust majorly as an early OT, for example the Vernon Gholston disaster.  The motives behind the choice are wholly irrelevant.

 

My point is that when you reach and draft to fill a need, i.e. Erick Flowers, you take a much bigger risk than drafting the BPA. Gholston was also a risk, with some scouts loving him and some hating him. Mangini admitted afterwards that he had some doubts about him, and Gholston was not the BPA available when the Jets took him.

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You want to help Sam Darnold? Get off the field on defense. This way he doesn't have to throw 40 times a game. 

I think Darnold would be insanely helped long-term by throwing the ball 40 times per game this year.

[T0mShane]

What the Jets should do 1A: Trade the #3 for a 2020 first rounder and a few Day Two picks this year

What the Jets should do 1B: Offer the #3 to Tampa straight up for Mike Evans

What the Jets should minimally try to do: trade out even if you take a hit because it’s a trash draft and you have a trash GM and maybe he hits on something due to volume.

What the Jets will do: 1. Quinnen; 2. CB 3. IOL

[Fantasy Island]

2 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

If that’s true why do you need a good OL?

to run the ball on 3rd and short and keep SAM healthy.

[jack48]

21 hours ago, Beerfish said:

pass rushers meet need at 3.  I am all for going oline but you have to draft the pass rusher allen or bosa,

true. this is not  one year draft.  At 3, it is a 10 year draft,  jets have not had a pass rusher in how many years?

[BROOKLYN JET]

If they can't trade out, they should take Allen.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

On 4/13/2019 at 11:45 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There is no way I can possibly get behind trading out of the pick if Oliver falls to 3. At the same time I suppose hubris is kind of the only thing that has really ever worked for the Jets.

What are the chances this works out with us picking Oliver? I feel like it’s pretty slim because Jets. 

[UnitedWhofans]

If they traded down to like 7 or 8, sure. But not at 3.

[bitonti]

On 4/13/2019 at 10:49 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

A B+ blindside tackler is more valuable to the Jets than an A+ defensive tackle. It’s bad luck the Jets are drafting at 3 in a really terrible draft. That’s not valid enough to set aside Darnold as the priority. 

All that matters is Darnold. If he crashes, the Jets crash. If the Jets don’t have an All-Pro DT, they don’t crash. 

Ok Sure. But what happens when the OL they take at 3 isn't better than either Beachum or Shell? Play him at center? 

it's important the player they take impacts the team immediately 

not develop for 5 years (that's your Darnold rookie window) 

[bitonti]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What the Jets should do 1A: Trade the #3 for a 2020 first rounder and a few Day Two picks this year

What the Jets should do 1B: Offer the #3 to Tampa straight up for Mike Evans

What the Jets should minimally try to do: trade out even if you take a hit because it’s a trash draft and you have a trash GM and maybe he hits on something due to volume.

What the Jets will do: 1. Quinnen; 2. CB 3. IOL

 everyone wants to trade down - there needs to be someone worth trading up for 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok Sure. But what happens when the OL they take at 3 isn't better than either Beachum or Shell? Play him at center? 

But what if he is? 

[bitonti]

42 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

But what if he is? 

Ok then Bench Shell I guess? it's not going to make that much of a difference to Sam Darnold's life 

look at the QB hit stats from last season, he's getting enough time, even before the upgrades 

 

[jetstream23]

On 4/13/2019 at 6:24 PM, Beerfish said:

pass rushers meet need at 3.  I am all for going oline but you have to draft the pass rusher allen or bosa,

We have some "thumpers" on D but where is our real speed?  Where is our quickness?  Guys like Mosely, Adams, Leo, Anderson, Jenkins....I consider all of them solid tacklers, good recognition defenders.  But none (not even Adams, Mosely is debatable) is really a game changer, a true weapon on defense.  Both Bosa and Allen have the potential to be that difference maker, a guy who can totally wreck a game for the offense ala Khalil Mack or when Vonn Miller won a Super Bowl for Peyton Manning by keeping a mobile guy like Cam Newton in check and disrupting the game.  

As much as I want to improve the OLine (and I think we can do that with a pick or two on the Interior of the OLine like a Center and/or Guard in Round 3), I really, really want to find our Le'Veon Bell for the defense.....a guy who keeps our opponent awake the night before a game worrying about him.  We need to be able to force turnovers organically out of standard alignments without blitzing.  We need a natural passrusher from the outside.  This Draft is a ****ing gift for a team like the Jets who have only had a handful of guys (John Abraham, Gastineau, etc.) in their history who can do that.

The NFL is changing.  Guys like Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Baker Mayfield (and soon Kyler Murray) will be the norm.  Who is quick enough to track down those guys?  Who is going to contain and pressure from the outside with enough speed to affect what those guys can do?  Even our best players (Mosely, Adams, Williams, etc.) aren't quick/fast enough.  For guys like Tom Brady, inside pressure affects their game.  Brady wants a clean pocket and things can get ugly for him when he's forced to scramble.  But these other guys?  I'd argue that they're even more dangerous outside the pocket where they create their own throwing lanes and make plays off schedule.  Having Leo Williams chase them towards the sideline is a no-win situation for the Jets.  We need to get Bosa or Allen.  And if we trade down we still need to get an Edge guy in the Top 15 like Sweat, Ferrell, etc.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Ok then Bench Shell I guess? it's not going to make that much of a difference to Sam Darnold's life 

look at the QB hit stats from last season, he's getting enough time, even before the upgrades 

 

When bitonti is satisfied with a sh*tty offensive line that's when you know the nihilists have won.

[rayzor]

On 4/13/2019 at 11:34 PM, cant wait said:

best case scenario is the jets trading down to 6 or 7 to pick up a 2nd rounder, taking ed oliver or brian burns + jenkins or mccoy. fills the 2 biggest holes on the roster with day one starters at edge and C. if they traded back further into the 10-15 range I’d use the first pick on OL and trade a 2nd round pick for frank clark

We traded up to 3 from 6 last year and it cost us our 1st and three 2nd rounders.  Just our luck that there aren't quality QB's coming out with desperate teams needing them. 

[bitonti]

37 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

When bitonti is satisfied with a sh*tty offensive line that's when you know the nihilists have won.

I'd rather they draft a gold jacket D tackle than a bust on offensive line 

[DoubleDown]

I think it's completely ludicrous to take the top offensive lineman off the table at #3 because the experts say it's a reach even though he is consistently mocked in the top 10.  These so called experts are wrong every single year about half of the top prospects.  I would be perfectly happy with Bosa, Allen, or Taylor at #3.  Are people really happy going with another DT if Bosa and Allen go #1 and #2 and there aren't any trade partners at #3?

The Jets offensive line has been neglected for a decade, and it has been a bottom 5 unit for years.  I'm tired of hearing about Beachum and Shell.  Give me a break, they are the definition of JAGs.  Beachum is also 30 years old when the season starts and on the last year of his contract.

The more I read about Taylor, the more I like him.  He's an absolute beast in the run game and athletically adequate enough to handle his own in pass protection.  He has the skills to play several positions along the offensive line.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/20/18268464/jawaan-taylor-nfl-draft-2019-florida-offensive-tackle-scouting-report

[RutgersJetFan]

45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'd rather they draft a gold jacket D tackle than a bust on offensive line 

If Darnold fails the Jets had better do it with them swinging for the fences the entire time and you have no idea who's going to bust or be amazing. You thought Dewayne Robertson was a future HOF'er.

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

We traded up to 3 from 6 last year and it cost us our 1st and three 2nd rounders.  Just our luck that there aren't quality QB's coming out with desperate teams needing them. 

less QB’s and the top 5 defensive players being pretty closely rated is not great for our trade value this year unfortunately 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

If you won't take Oliver because you hate winning, and you think Darnold is a massive liability we need to compensate for at all costs, why not Butler instead of the OL?

[jetsfansince7]

Everybody knew Orlando Pace was that guy in a class that included Walter Jones. There's no consensus about Taylor, whose competition is Williams and Dillard. What does that tell you about taking any of them at 3?

It screams no


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Wonderboy]

On 4/13/2019 at 9:57 PM, CanadaSteve said:

LOTS....but that doesn't matter to some.  DRAFT AN OL AT FIRST NO MATTER WHAT!

 

If we draft Allen Macc must get into the 2nd round and get the best OL available.