Gase Forcing Macc Out

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Did Johnson give the guy who skipped the draft because he didn’t want Le’Veon bell his way yet?

i mean have any of you guys said that out loud?

lol

This is a perfect example of the inherent contradiction in being a homer—You say you’re a huge supporter of the team and that you’re extremely invested in that team doing well, but at the same time you close ranks around coaches, players, or GMs that are demonstrably bad at their jobs out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the logo. The homer is good for ticket and merchandise sales, but they don’t really care about winning football games. You’re not fans, you’re cultists and, like cultists, it doesn’t matter what kind of person the cult leader is, what he professes, or what indignities he subjects you to, you shame yourself to be a superficially valued and easily manipulated member of the flock. Whenever I encounter a Jets homer, I often reflect on that scene at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai, where Alec Guinness spots William Holden getting ready to blow the bridge he helped build for his Japanese captors and Guinness starts blowing his whistle, alerting the guards to Holden’s plot. Holden looks at Guinness and can’t believe a British Colonel would be so deluded as to see an obvious ally as an enemy, but there they were, with Guinness blowing that whistle.

Alas. 

Keep blowing that whistle, homers. It’s only been fifty years. 

[Dcat]

8 minutes ago, mrcoops said:

I think everyone suspected the Giants were taking Barkley for a very long time. They were also assuming that Darnold was going #1 to Cleveland.

The Jets, suspecting that Darnold was going #1 and fairly sure that Barkley was going #2, traded up to 3 to assure themselves of the other QB they liked - Mayfield.

The Giants were never a threat to take Mayfield.  But, once Cleveland picked Baker #1, it reset things a bit.  I don't think anyone expected Darnold to be there at #2, and he was far more of a fit for the Giants than Mayfield was. That probably made the Jets nervous.

In the end, the Giants stuck with their plan to pick Barkley and passed up on the unexpected chance to pick Darnold - which could explain Heimerdinger's "horseshoe" comment.

Gotta love how everyone (including me) forgets that the Giants could have traded that pick to a team desperate for a QB so not only did Mac gamble that the Giants were going to take Barkley instead of a QB, but also that the Giants would refuse trade offers from other teams to jump the Jets.

It was pure, unfettered luck.   Mac moved up to 3 because he hoped to get Mayfield but was certainly willing to give up three 2nd round picks for Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (I assume it would have been Allen and not Rosen.)   

He had no idea what Gettleman was going to do.  He hoped that it would not be Darnold or a trade down.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

Gotta love how everyone (including me) forgets that the Giants could have traded that pick to a team desperate for a QB so not only did Mac gamble that the Giants were going to take Barkley instead of a QB, but also that the Giants would refuse trade offers from other teams to jump the Jets.

It was pure, unfettered luck.   Mac moved up to 3 because he hoped to get Mayfield but was certainly willing to give up three 2nd round picks for Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (I assume it would have been Allen and not Rosen.)   

He had no idea what Gettleman was going to do.  He hoped that it would not be Darnold or a trade down.

So what Mac lucked into Sam?

 

80% of his moves have been trash.  Besides Sam which was lucky his only really good draft pick in 4 years has been Herndon

 

This offseason has been good but we did have $100 million in cap room plus the third overall pick.  My dog could have improved the roster with that.

 

And who knows Gase probably has hijacked the GM position already.  I’m fine with that

 

 

 

[JetsFanatic]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is a perfect example of the inherent contradiction in being a homer—You say you’re a huge supporter of the team and that you’re extremely invested in that team doing well, but at the same time you close ranks around coaches, players, or GMs that are demonstrably bad at their jobs out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the logo. The homer is good for ticket and merchandise sales, but they don’t really care about winning football games. You’re not fans, you’re cultists and, like cultists, it doesn’t matter what kind of person the cult leader is, what he professes, or what indignities he subjects you to, you shame yourself to be a superficially valued member of the flock. Whenever I encounter a Jets homer, I often reflect on that scene at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai, where Alec Guinness spots William Holden getting ready to blow the bridge he helped build for his Japanese captors and Guinness starts blowing his whistle, alerting the guards to Holden’s plot. Holden looks at Guinness and can’t believe a British Colonel would be so deluded as to see an obvious ally as an enemy, but there they were, with Guinness blowing that whistle.

Alas. 

Keep blowing that whistle, homers. It’s only been fifty years. 

You're a perfect example of a SOJF, you have the best Safety in the league and you continually make a fool of yourself criticizing him.

Keep blowing the whistle SOJF!

[static14]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is a perfect example of the inherent contradiction in being a homer—You say you’re a huge supporter of the team and that you’re extremely invested in that team doing well, but at the same time you close ranks around coaches, players, or GMs that are demonstrably bad at their jobs out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the logo. The homer is good for ticket and merchandise sales, but they don’t really care about winning football games. You’re not fans, you’re cultists and, like cultists, it doesn’t matter what kind of person the cult leader is, what he professes, or what indignities he subjects you to, you shame yourself to be a superficially valued and easily manipulated member of the flock. Whenever I encounter a Jets homer, I often reflect on that scene at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai, where Alec Guinness spots William Holden getting ready to blow the bridge he helped build for his Japanese captors and Guinness starts blowing his whistle, alerting the guards to Holden’s plot. Holden looks at Guinness and can’t believe a British Colonel would be so deluded as to see an obvious ally as an enemy, but there they were, with Guinness blowing that whistle.

Alas. 

Keep blowing that whistle, homers. It’s only been fifty years. 

Does this make the Jets Colonel Saito?

[Philc1]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It confirms my belief that raw homers will throw their bodies in front of anyone on the Jets payroll if Manish Mehta tells them to. 

I’m the opposite I’d like to throw Mehta under a bus - literally 

[RedBeardedSavage]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is a perfect example of the inherent contradiction in being a homer—You say you’re a huge supporter of the team and that you’re extremely invested in that team doing well, but at the same time you close ranks around coaches, players, or GMs that are demonstrably bad at their jobs out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the logo. The homer is good for ticket and merchandise sales, but they don’t really care about winning football games. You’re not fans, you’re cultists and, like cultists, it doesn’t matter what kind of person the cult leader is, what he professes, or what indignities he subjects you to, you shame yourself to be a superficially valued and easily manipulated member of the flock. Whenever I encounter a Jets homer, I often reflect on that scene at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai, where Alec Guinness spots William Holden getting ready to blow the bridge he helped build for his Japanese captors and Guinness starts blowing his whistle, alerting the guards to Holden’s plot. Holden looks at Guinness and can’t believe a British Colonel would be so deluded as to see an obvious ally as an enemy, but there they were, with Guinness blowing that whistle.

Alas. 

Keep blowing that whistle, homers. It’s only been fifty years. 

Yea but sometimes I’m reminded of the “d*cks, p*ssies & a$$holes” speech from Team America - “a$$holes who just want to sh*t all over everything”. 

Take pick 3 for instance; if we couldn’t trade out, which it seems like we couldn’t, I can’t really hate on the QW pick. In fact, I’m excited to see him in green. But there are those here that will just sh*t on it, regardless of circumstance, because it’s easy to say “we drafted another defensive lineman”.

Before the draft, I wanted to trade down too - but I can’t, nor can our GM, dictate who offers us what. 

So while I wish our terrible owner would sell the team, that our GM was fired, I’m not just gonna sh*t on everything either. 

[Cyberjet]

Bottom line on paper the Jets are a better team than last year. Throw in a better coaching staff both on offense and defense there is a lot to be happy about.

 

[thebuzzardman]

46 minutes ago, static14 said:

Does this make the Jets Colonel Saito?

I just want to know who everyone is in Von Ryan's Express.

I'm pretty sure all Jet fans are Ryan. 

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Macc may be a bit of a boob but these GMs do seem to know what's going on.  It's like Gettleman right now taking tons of heat (and deservedly so) for the Daniel Jones pick.  When he says he "knows that two other teams before the 17th pick would have taken Jones," I think that's 99% likely.

ESPN is reporting that the two teams he was referring to were Denver and Washington.  They both were blowing smoke out of their asses because they really wanted Lock and Haskins.

He blew this one by a wide margin if those were their guys

[Matt39]

Gianoti actually pressing Maccagnan on Bell skipping minicamp.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Gianoti actually pressing Maccagnan on Bell skipping minicamp.

Bell only got $52 million why would he show up to practice?

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, CTM said:

Ok, so it was widely reported that the initial outline of the trade was put together during the scouting combine which was the end of Feb. The trade was consummated on 3/17/18, almost 6 weeks prior to the 4/26 draft.

For your version of events to be true, the same guy who was "surprised" by the Mayfield pick on draft night, somehow knew 2 months in advance that Gettleman was taking Barkley and he'd for sure have 1 of Darnold/Mayfield available to him.

• Despite the fact that Barkley's pro day was 3/19, 2 days after the trade was official
• Despite the fact that the Giants didn't host Barkley for a private workout until 3/27, 10 days after the trade was official

Sounds extremely likely. Hard to believe that such a prescient Gm has an extensive track record of incompetence.

Barkley to the Giants was the worlds worst kept secret.

Gettleman said over and over again that at 2 you need someone who you see in a yellow jacket.  He talked up Barkley at every turn. 

It like saying no one knew for sure that AZ was taking Murray

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Gianoti actually pressing Maccagnan on Bell skipping minicamp.

How long did it take Boomer to start yelling over him?

[Jet Nut]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:56 AM, Dcat said:

It was pure, unfettered luck.   Mac moved up to 3 because he hoped to get Mayfield but was certainly willing to give up three 2nd round picks for Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (I assume it would have been Allen and not Rosen.)   

He had no idea what Gettleman was going to do.  He hoped that it would not be Darnold or a trade down.

You can look at this anyway you want to fit the we hate Macc agenda but its wrong.

He made a move, a trade to get into position to get one of his three top QBs.  If he sat at six he would have left us in a position where we could have been frozen out of any of them.  The trade made sense given how long this team has been looking for a FQB if it were Baker, Darnold or Allen/Rosen at 3.

Not luck, the right move. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

How long did it take Boomer to start yelling over him?

He did not actually. Felt a bit uncomfortable, but it was the first time I've ever heard anyone local basically put his feet to the fire a bit.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

He did not actually. Felt a bit uncomfortable, but it was the first time I've ever heard anyone local basically put his feet to the fire a bit.

Well, damn. I’m assuming Macc gave the usual mumbling, if pleasant, Macc answers to everything? 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Well, damn. I’m assuming Macc gave the usual mumbling, if pleasant, Macc answers to everything? 

"the CBA...we like Leveon quite a bit...he knows how to prepare...we like him quite a bit"

[CTM]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You say you’re a huge supporter of the team and that you’re extremely invested in that team doing well, but at the same time you close ranks around coaches, players, or GMs that are demonstrably bad at their jobs out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the logo.

Often times this comes at the expense of other coaches, players or GMs who are equally Jets. Defend mac by saying Bowles sucks. Pennington, Sanchez and Geno werent sh*t players, they had no weaponz, and bad online / coaching. 

 I'm not sure loyalty to the logo fully explains homerdom

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, damn. I’m assuming Macc gave the usual mumbling, if pleasant, Macc answers to everything? 

I didn't hear the interview but I'll put the over under on how often he used the phrase "college free agency" at 4.5

[Larz]

Don’t believe everything you read on the internet folks 

 

[Jetsfan80]

29 minutes ago, CTM said:

Often times this comes at the expense of other coaches, players or GMs who are equally Jets. Defend mac by saying Bowles sucks. Pennington, Sanchez and Geno werent sh*t players, they had no weaponz, and bad online / coaching. 

 I'm not sure loyalty to the logo fully explains homerdom 

It's hard for a homer to attack the GM or QB, because those are difficult positions in the franchise from which to transition.  When you replace the GM, you're starting over with a brand new vision and possibly a new HC.  When you replace the QB, it's an earth-shattering decision that changes what your franchise looks like for years into the future.  And the worry is that you're going to replace those guys with someone worse. 

It's much more comforting for homers to think the GM and/or QB will "figure it out" rather than be faced with the possibility of the franchise starting over.  Especially when you have a lot of sunken cost, emotionally and sometimes financially, own a QB's jersey, etc. 

I know all this as an ex-homer. 

[UnitedWhofans]

15 hours ago, CTM said:

So he verbally confirmed he had no idea Cleveland was going Mayfield and that leads you to conclude he knew exactly what Gettleman was doing weeks before the draft?

If the Dolphins knew that the Giants were taking Barkley, then the Jets had to have known. Gettleman is not exactly tight lipped

[UnitedWhofans]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's hard for a homer to attack the GM or QB, because those are difficult positions in the franchise from which to transition.  When you replace the GM, you're starting over with a brand new vision and possibly a new HC.  When you replace the QB, it's an earth-shattering decision that changes what your franchise looks like for years into the future.  And the worry is that you're going to replace those guys with someone worse. 

It's much more comforting for homers to think the GM and/or QB will "figure it out" rather than be faced with the possibility of the franchise starting over.  Especially when you have a lot of sunken cost, emotionally and sometimes financially, own a QB's jersey, etc. 

I know all this as an ex-homer. 

You go with the devil you know rather than the devil you dont

[UnitedWhofans]

I also find it interesting that people here credit Heimerdingner with he trade yet don’t say he got lucky. Trying to walk the logical tightrope is dangerous for people with agendas. The facts are difficult to dispute. And the facts seem to lean towards that everybody knew the Giants were taking Barkley hell or high water

[rangerous]

19 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No tools?  Really, did you pay attention to the offseason?

yes and teams need to build from the lines out.  granted mac brought in bell and crowder and improved the oline by bringing in osmele but the center position and left tackle still need to be addressed in a big way.  i'm the first one to say that no gm can bring in superior players for so many holes in one season.  this has been going on for all 4 of mac's seasons as gm.  and let's be clear too, just because they did get a guy like bell doesn't mean that he is going to return to steeler form nor does it mean he will be an instant fit into whatever offense gase is planning.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yes and teams need to build from the lines out.  granted mac brought in bell and crowder and improved the oline by bringing in osmele but the center position and left tackle still need to be addressed in a big way.  i'm the first one to say that no gm can bring in superior players for so many holes in one season.  this has been going on for all 4 of mac's seasons as gm.  and let's be clear too, just because they did get a guy like bell doesn't mean that he is going to return to steeler form nor does it mean he will be an instant fit into whatever offense gase is planning. 

Yep.  We had tons of cap space during an offseason when none of our biggest needs (LT, Pass Rusher, CB, WR, C) had a bevy of talent.  So while we spent money on some quality players, it only barely moves the needle for the roster, and several of those guys (Bell, Crowder, Osemele) are guaranteed not to be here long-term. 

That's why you have to draft well and can't depend on free agency.  The players that truly matter most rarely hit free agency for a reason. 

Having said that, there were a few nice, young pass rushers available (Preston Smith, Za'Darius Smith, Trey Flowers) that Macc never seemed to even go after.  That made no sense whatsoever.  He was seriously content to enter the draft with Brandon Copeland as our best and only pass rusher?  Very strange.  PFF graded Preston Smith (76.9, # 19 EDGE) and Za'Darius Smith (71.7, # 33 EDGE) much better than Copeland (67.4, # 51 EDGE) at the same position, with Copeland (27) being older than both of them (26). 

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yes and teams need to build from the lines out.  granted mac brought in bell and crowder and improved the oline by bringing in osmele but the center position and left tackle still need to be addressed in a big way.  i'm the first one to say that no gm can bring in superior players for so many holes in one season.  this has been going on for all 4 of mac's seasons as gm.  and let's be clear too, just because they did get a guy like bell doesn't mean that he is going to return to steeler form nor does it mean he will be an instant fit into whatever offense gase is planning.

I get that he created this hole, lack of talent at positions

But you said he didnt bring in tools and he did.  Whether he brought in enough, should or could have brought in more is a different question. 

[JetsFanatic]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So what Mac lucked into Sam?

 

80% of his moves have been trash.  Besides Sam which was lucky his only really good draft pick in 4 years has been Herndon

 

This offseason has been good but we did have $100 million in cap room plus the third overall pick.  My dog could have improved the roster with that.

 

And who knows Gase probably has hijacked the GM position already.  I’m fine with that

 

 

 

It wasn’t all luck with Sam, if he didn’t trade into 3 a month before the draft, he wouldn’t have gotten him.

[CTM]

59 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I also find it interesting that people here credit Heimerdingner with he trade yet don’t say he got lucky. Trying to walk the logical tightrope is dangerous for people with agendas. The facts are difficult to dispute. And the facts seem to lean towards that everybody knew the Giants were taking Barkley hell or high water

Almost 0% chance  gentlemen knew for sure he was taking Barkley prior to his pro day or visit with Giants.

 

[rangerous]

45 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I get that he created this hole, lack of talent at positions

But you said he didnt bring in tools and he did.  Whether he brought in enough, should or could have brought in more is a different question. 

he brought in some.  crowder and osmele seem like they will actually live up to potential.  bell, hard to say.  you know as well as i that bell was running behind the oline that was rated best in the league so we'll see.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If the Dolphins knew that the Giants were taking Barkley, then the Jets had to have known. Gettleman is not exactly tight lipped

"You have a horseshoe up your ass"  That's what Heimerdinger said after the Giants picked Barkley, not after Cleveland took Mayfield. The Jets did NOT know what the Giants were going to do.  Mac was hoping the Giants weren't taking a QB.  Had he and heimerdinger known, there would have been no "horseshoe" comment.  They were astonished that they got Darnold because the Giants passed on a QB..

 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You can look at this anyway you want to fit the we hate Macc agenda but its wrong.

He made a move, a trade to get into position to get one of his three top QBs.  If he sat at six he would have left us in a position where we could have been frozen out of any of them.  The trade made sense given how long this team has been looking for a FQB if it were Baker, Darnold or Allen/Rosen at 3.

Not luck, the right move.

Luck.  Had the Giants taken Darnold, the Jets would have Josh (most likely Allen).  Darnold was luck.  trading to the top 3 ensured a QB, not Darnold. And that is a fact, not an opinion.

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, Dcat said:

Sure he did .  That's why Heimerdinger told him "you have a horseshoe up your ass" after the Giants took Barkley, right?

That Heimerdinger comment proves to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that Maccagnan didn't know sh!t about what Gettleman was going to do.  I understand that everyone wants the GM to be shrewd, and to have foresight.  But this concept is presently nothing more than a wish.   Maybe the next one we get down the road will have those attributes.  For the time being, we have a doofus, who rolled the dice a year ago and won. But if anyone thinks it was more than a mere roll of the dice, you have vivid imaginations.

The horseshoe was getting Darnold and not Mayfield IMO.  I think the Jets had those QBs ranked 1A and 1B with Darnold first.  Macc expected to get Mayfield at #3 and they were all shocked at what Cleveland did, letting the #1 player on the Jets board slide to #3 overall.  Different position, but the Jets likely had the same thing happen again this year.  If Kliff Kingsbury isn't hired in Arizona nobody is touching Murray before the Giants potentially at #6.  Bosa would have gone 1, Quinnen 2.  I think the Jets were fortuitous again.  Not sure how many horseshoes fit up there but if the thesis here is that Macc is more lucky than good then it seems to be happening every year (with or without trade ups).

[Dcat]

13 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The horseshoe was getting Darnold and not Mayfield IMO.  I think the Jets had those QBs ranked 1A and 1B with Darnold first.  Macc expected to get Mayfield at #3 and they were all shocked at what Cleveland did, letting the #1 player on the Jets board slide to #3 overall.  Different position, but the Jets likely had the same thing happen again this year.  If Kliff Kingsbury isn't hired in Arizona nobody is touching Murray before the Giants potentially at #6.  Bosa would have gone 1, Quinnen 2.  I think the Jets were fortuitous again.  Not sure how many horseshoes fit up there but if the thesis here is that Macc is more lucky than good then it seems to be happening every year (with or without trade ups).

I have no idea why everyone persists with the false belief that they all "knew" the Giants were taking Barkley.  Nobody knew, least of all our doofus who doesn't even know the Dunkin' Donuts is trash.  What Mac did, and it was somewhat wise, was ensure us of one of 4 highly rated QBs, but neither Mayfield nor Darnold.  The horshoe, I believe, was getting either Mayfield or Darnold and that was contingent on the Giants.  There's your hoseshoe right there.  It had nothing to do with Cleveland. In fact for the 48 hours prior to the draft it was fairly well publicized that Cleveland was leaning Mayfield.  SO there was no huge surprise there.

When it can be proven that Mac "knew" what Gettleman was going to do, then get back to me.  If you and the others want to live that dream, that Mac strategically got us Darnold (LOL, LOL, LOL) then enjoy the fantasy.  I know it makes people feel better about being saddled with this dunce as GM to pretend he has a clue.   Well he doesn't.