Why were some of you so ready to panic?

[jgb]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Also Troy aikman, Drew Brees.

Brees in his third year 2-9 record.  11 tds, 15 ints, 57.6% comp rate

And the reason we all know these examples? Because they are extreme and unexpected outliers.

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Meanwhile Belichick goes from Brady to Newton in one offseason and the Patriots are still good. Ditto with Harbaugh from Flacco to Jackson. Reid with Smith to Mahomes. Good coaches adapt to their players, not vice versa. 

The Patriots are still good because they beat Ryan Fitzpatrick and the miami dolphins in a close game?  

We're not going to talk about Belichick's 7 years without Brady? Just a week 1 win this year?

I love when people overreact to week 1 ?

[PS17]

Just now, nyjunc said:

The Patriots are still good better they beat Ryan Fitzpatrick and the miami dolphins in a close game?  

We're not going to talk about Belichick's 7 years without Brady? Just a week 1 win this year?

I love when people overreact to week 1 ?

I’m not taking the bait. Take a hike.

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, Y3k said:

How do you know where he was looking? The shot is from behind him. Perriman was running next to crowder on that play. Even if you're right, it was ONE PLAY.

Because it was obvious.  I’ve seen multiple angles, looked right at him and decided not.  It’s not one play, that was one of many mistakes and that particular is where he is supposed to shine. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

When is the right time to say Darnold is not very good? Those of us who have said it for a couple seasons now are always accused of "panicking." When the team eventually gives up on Darnold, those who point out his shortcomings  at that time will be accused of "beating a dead horse" and "stating the obvious." It's always the same pattern.

Conclusion: it's never the right time to criticize the Jets.

Nailed it, 100%.

Even better lols, the same folks who endlessly attack any critics now will be the same people claiming they knew all all along X or Y was going to fail down the road.   All we're missing now is the standard "he needs weapons, and time" meme comments.

Happened with every failed QB the Jets have had in my adult lifetime. 

 

[nyjunc]

53 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

The NFL was essentially a different sport in 2004. Which is the era Eli was struggling in relative to Darnold's current struggles.

Almost no rookies played and succeeded. Ben's rookie season was seen as exceptional and nowadays rookie's blow it away. The game has been made much easier for QB's. Eli got the living piss beaten out of him in those first few years.

 

2004 is when everything changed. It was the 2003 playoffs when the colts whined to the league after another Peyton playoff choke and they changed the rules which really opened things up for the crazy passing numbers we've seen ever since.

Eli played his entire career in that era, the difference btw him and Sam is that Eli walked into a SB caliber team from day 1 and the Giants always made sure to have excellent weapons for him to throw to.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Eli Manning took 3.5 years (including throwing bad INTs off his back foot) before he figured things out. 

And that was with a HOF coach.

He got better but throughout his career threw bad INTs, he just had great teams around him to make up for it most of his career.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I’m not taking the bait. Take a hike.

Who are you?

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

2004 is when everything changed. It was the 2003 playoffs when the colts whined to the league after another Peyton playoff choke and they changed the rules which really opened things up for the crazy passing numbers we've seen ever since.

Eli played his entire career in that era, the difference btw him and Sam is that Eli walked into a SB caliber team from day 1 and the Giants always made sure to have excellent weapons for him to throw to.

Nah my man.

Even then there was so much less a QB could do. The middle of the field was essentially no man's land as defensive players were free to light up WR's at will. QB's could get hit almost like they were any other player. Even go an watch Eli's rookie season and you'll see some of the sacks/hits on him would be penalties/ejections today. It was just a far, far more physical game. The league actually encouraged and celebrated the violence rather than hide from it. 

[peebag]

My list of items that are troubling about the state of the 2020 New York Jets does not have Sam Darnold on it.

 

[CTM]

Y3k = Nico?

[CTM]

18 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Meanwhile Belichick goes from Brady to Newton in one offseason and the Patriots are still good.

I know the dolphins are SB contenders and everything but this seems premature

[SR24]

From an article on Sam yesterday in the NY Post yesterday.

Player A: 27 starts, 533-for-890 passing for 6,104 yards, 37 touchdowns, 29 interceptions, 59.9 completion percentage, 80.3 rating.

Player B: 27 starts, 577-for-990 passing for 6,506 yards, 40 touchdowns, 29 interceptions, 58.3 completion percentage, 79.3 rating.

Player A and player B through their first 27 games. Player A is Sam Darnold and player B is Blake Bortles. I'm pretty sure they were the last 2 Qbs to selected #3 overall too. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He got better but throughout his career threw bad INTs, he just had great teams around him to make up for it most of his career.

Eli had a very strong surrounding cast (especially on defense) and a HOF HC but so did Montana and Brady.

Right now, Sam still is at the "has great potential" stage of his career.  Clearly he doesn't have the surrounding cast and he certainly doesn't have the HOF HC.  He's also younger than Burrow.  He needs to be given more time.  I think Joe D understands that and still believes in Sam (as do I).

If somehow the season really goes in the tank, though, and we're in a position to draft Trevor Lawrence then I'd be 100% okay with doing so (even though I still think Sam is going to be a FQB).  TL is considered a generational prospect plus he'd be on a rookie deal (Woody and Chris wasted the cheap years of Sam with Macc/Gase).

[Matt39]

Rosen played in the same conference against the same teams with less talent and basically put up the numbers as Darnold in college. Arizona moves on after only one season (the right move). If Darnold doesn’t play better over the next 3-4 games or so you need to make Lawrence happen. This shouldn’t even be debatable.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Rosen played in the same conference against the same teams with less talent and basically put up the numbers as Darnold in college. Arizona moves on after only one season (the right move). If Darnold doesn’t play better over the next 3-4 games or so you need to make Lawrence happen. This shouldn’t even be debatable.

It’d be cold-blooded, but if they could find a path to secure Lawrence, you’d also get your pick of coaches along with it. It’d take a lot of questionable IR moves, benching Darnold for Morgan at some point, and trading off Bell and Crowder for pennies on the dollar. They should already be looking to dump Quinnen onto whatever team was rumored to want him, but that seems too good to be true. Trevor Lawrence and, say, Lincoln Riley in 2021 wouldn’t be too shabby

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’d be cold-blooded, but if they could find a path to secure Lawrence, you’d also get your pick of coaches along with it. It’d take a lot of questionable IR moves, benching Darnold for Morgan at some point, and trading off Bell and Crowder for pennies on the dollar. They should already be looking to dump Quinnen onto whatever team was rumored to want him, but that seems too good to be true. Trevor Lawrence and, say, Lincoln Riley in 2021 wouldn’t be too shabby

We'd be in the same boat as we are today except the coach might be better.  And I do mean "might".

Also Lincoln Riley is not going anywhere.

[slimjasi]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If Darnold doesn’t play better over the next 3-4 games or so you need to make Lawrence happen. This shouldn’t even be debatable.

I agree in principle, but I think making Lawrence happen in practice is still a big gamble. There is no room for missing. You either get the number 1 pick or you fail miserably and I will continue to say that this team will find a way to win just enough meaningless games to ruin the plan. 

I'd be all in, but we also need some tangible backup plans. The entire bottom third of the league will be dreaming bout Lawrence by late October/early November. 

The other thing is, regardless of what happens at QB, we need to see Joe D's first draft class perform. That means getting Mims/Perine/Zuniga/Davis on the field and being productive. Ideally, you want those guys to all play well while still losing, which is a tricky balance. And if those guys don't play well, how confident will we be with Douglas going forward, anyway?

[Y3k]

30 minutes ago, SR24 said:

From an article on Sam yesterday in the NY Post yesterday.

Player A: 27 starts, 533-for-890 passing for 6,104 yards, 37 touchdowns, 29 interceptions, 59.9 completion percentage, 80.3 rating.

Player B: 27 starts, 577-for-990 passing for 6,506 yards, 40 touchdowns, 29 interceptions, 58.3 completion percentage, 79.3 rating.

Player A and player B through their first 27 games. Player A is Sam Darnold and player B is Blake Bortles. I'm pretty sure they were the last 2 Qbs to selected #3 overall too. 

That is as valid as comparing him to Aikman or Brees through 2 years (not very valid) 

[Y3k]

44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nailed it, 100%.

Even better lols, the same folks who endlessly attack any critics now will be the same people claiming they knew all all along X or Y was going to fail down the road.   All we're missing now is the standard "he needs weapons, and time" meme comments.

Happened with every failed QB the Jets have had in my adult lifetime. 

 

The time to give up on Darnold is when he stops improving and his plateau isn't good enough. 

He improved across the board from year 1 to 2, even though his circumstances were terrible. 

Lets see if he continues to improve from year 2 to 3. 

My issues is the knee jerk panic over 1 game. 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

See what exactly ? The bad mechanics ? The terrible Awareness ? Throwing across your body while rolling in the opposite direction ? Not seeing wide open WR's directly in front of you and running out of Bounds ? 

 

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’d be cold-blooded, but if they could find a path to secure Lawrence, you’d also get your pick of coaches along with it. It’d take a lot of questionable IR moves, benching Darnold for Morgan at some point, and trading off Bell and Crowder for pennies on the dollar. They should already be looking to dump Quinnen onto whatever team was rumored to want him, but that seems too good to be true. Trevor Lawrence and, say, Lincoln Riley in 2021 wouldn’t be too shabby

I think Williams knew Quinnen stunk last year and the Jets floated that rumor out to gauge interest. He is looking like a colossal bust.

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I agree in principle, but I think making Lawrence happen in practice is still a big gamble. There is no room for missing. You either get the number 1 pick or you fail miserably and I will continue to say that this team will find a way to win just enough meaningless games to ruin the plan. 

I'd be all in, but we also need some tangible backup plans. The entire bottom third of the league will be dreaming bout Lawrence by late October/early November. 

The other thing is, regardless of what happens at QB, we need to see Joe D's first draft class perform. That means getting Mims/Perine/Zuniga/Davis on the field and being productive. Ideally, you want those guys to all play well while still losing, which is a tricky balance. And if those guys don't play well, how confident will we be with Douglas going forward, anyway?

Yeah I get it’s early, but Jets fans tend not to judge early enough. Douglas first class looks like a whiff. Claypool and the Edge from Charlotte we’re both playing for Pittsburgh last night and they are significantly more talented than the Jets. Both could have been Jets. Mims season is already a wash and Zuniga seems like a dog. Maybe Davis contributes on specials but right now he’s a backup safety we took in the 3rd effing round. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Y3k said:

The time to give up on Darnold is when he stops improving and his plateau isn't good enough. 

This is a straw man.

Every single Jets Fan is rooting for Darnold to improve and succeed.

Discussing performance =/= "giving up", and even if it did, so what?  Fan talk on the internet has no effect whatsoever on the team or the players.  

I'll go one further, if what we say here actually DID matter to Sam Darnold, I would cut him on the god damn spot. 

What a laughable proposition, that a QB's play is driven by what fans think of f'ing internet forum.

2 minutes ago, Y3k said:

My issues is the knee jerk panic over 1 game. 

OUR issue is a bad team losing bad games.  Until that changes, every single person involved in this franchise can expect criticism or scrutiny.

And no, you liking it or agreeing with it isn't required.

[Biggs]

Great post and it makes the argument for Darnold sitting on the bench like Aaron Rodgers did.  The problem is we took this raw talent and threw him into the fire and said swim.  He's drowning.  

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Yeah I get it’s early, but Jets fans tend not to judge early enough. Douglas first class looks like a whiff. Claypool and the Edge from Charlotte we’re both playing for Pittsburgh last night and they are significantly more talented than the Jets. Both could have been Jets. Mims season is already a wash and Zuniga seems like a dog. Maybe Davis contributes on specials but right now he’s a backup safety we took in the 3rd effing round. 

Eh, I think Claypool vs. Mims remains to be seen. It's obviously incredibly frustrating that the guy can't even get on the field. Same with Zuniga - would be nice to get these guys on the field. I agree about Davis - I'd like to see him playing on defense more considering that we picked him in the 3rd with bigger positions of need still on the board. Also, can't ignore Becton. Was very solid in his first game, all things considering. 

But let's assume that you are right, and outside of Becton, the draft class is a whiff. Then how excited are we going forward anyway? 

[Y3k]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This is a straw man.

Every single Jets Fan is rooting for Darnold to improve and succeed.

Discussing performance =/= "giving up", and even if it did, so what?  Fan talk on the internet has no effect whatsoever on the team or the players.  

I'll go one further, if what we say here actually DID matter to Sam Darnold, I would cut him on the god damn spot. 

What a laughable proposition, that a QB's play is driven by what fans think of f'ing internet forum.

OUR issue is a bad team losing bad games.  Until that changes, every single person involved in this franchise can expect criticism or scrutiny.

And no, you liking it or agreeing with it isn't required.

If you think the fan and media narrative doesn't affect players and teams you're sadly mistaken. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Eh, I think Claypool vs. Mims remains to be seen. It's obviously incredibly frustrating that the guy can't even get on the field. Same with Zuniga - would be nice to get these guys on the field. I agree about Davis - I'd like to see him playing on defense more considering that we picked him in the 3rd with bigger positions of need still on the board. Also, can't ignore Becton. Was very solid in his first game, all things considering. 

But let's assume that you are right, and outside of Becton, the draft class is a whiff. Then how excited are we going forward anyway? 

Rule of thumb- everyone the Jets hire, whether coach or front office guy is at the bottom of the league and are only being given a chance because the Johnson’s want control and are cheap. The parameters the Jets set are ridiculous. It’s why Rhule isn’t the coach. I mean the Jets front office staff after Douglas are all retreads with little if any analytical experience. Gase is a total fraud using the Johnson’s to get paid.

[Lith]

56 minutes ago, jgb said:

And the reason we all know these examples? Because they are extreme and unexpected outliers.

Exactly.  You see it all the time on this site, using the exception to try to prove the rule.  Most QBs who are bad in year 3 are just bad QBs.  

That said, Sam is our QB for the rest of the season.  Sunday's game was week 1, with a roster with a lot of turnover, coming off of a strange offseason.  Hoping it was an aberration.  He should have been better, but lets see what he does for the rest of the season.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

Exactly.  You see it all the time on this site, using the exception to try to prove the rule.  Most QBs who are bad in year 3 are just bad QBs.  

That said, Sam is our QB for the rest of the season.  Sunday's game was week 1, with a roster with a lot of turnover, coming off of a strange offseason.  Hoping it was an aberration.  He should have been better, but lets see what he does for the rest of the season.

Blake Bortles was fantastic compared to Sam.  He's basically relegated to be a back up for the rest of his career. 

[bitonti]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 benching Darnold for Morgan at some point

[southparkcpa]

Jets fans before and after Buffalo game...............

[JohnnyLV]

Here is what we need to accept about Darnold and learn how to manage it. There is another QB in the NFL with this issue that is at the very top levels of the QB chart in Drew Brees who struggled for 2 years like Darnold.

Darnold is an emotional and momentum fueled QB. 

It is just what he is. He is nervous at the beginning of games and needs to calm down. Once he does he can be fantastic. But every once in a while if he doesn't calm down and have success at the beginning he can sort of spiral downward.

This happened with Brees early in his career as well.

What they started to do was give Brees some easy high percentage throws at the beginning, or sometimes a low risk play action deep pass to get Brees into the flow of the game. Once he had these under his belt he lost the nervousness and got better and better during the game. Payton does that with Brees in almost every game.

Darnold needs this as well. Deep outs is not the way to get Sam into the game, he needs to see success early

 

[Jetluv58]

3 hours ago, Y3k said:

If you don't see it I can't help you. 

 

A bit haughty aren’t we?

[Y3k]

8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Here is what we need to accept about Darnold and learn how to manage it. There is another QB in the NFL with this issue that is at the very top levels of the QB chart in Drew Brees who struggled for 2 years like Darnold.

Darnold is an emotional and momentum fueled QB. 

It is just what he is. He is nervous at the beginning of games and needs to calm down. Once he does he can be fantastic. But every once in a while if he doesn't calm down and have success at the beginning he can sort of spiral downward.

This happened with Brees early in his career as well.

What they started to do was give Brees some easy high percentage throws at the beginning, or sometimes a low risk play action deep pass to get Brees into the flow of the game. Once he had these under his belt he lost the nervousness and got better and better during the game. Payton does that with Brees in almost every game.

Darnold needs this as well. Deep outs is not the way to get Sam into the game, he needs to see success early

 

I can agree with this, I've noticed it too.