Here comes Cimini linking the Jets to a possible decision with Trevor Lawrence

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

Why don't we compare their rookie seasons please. I'll wait.

If you selectively narrow the sample sizes enough, you can make anyone look like anyone.

[joewilly12]

Sign me IF Sam Darnold falters miserably this season. 

*disclaimer our WR's are the worst in the NFL. 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

That statement is factually incorrect.  He has shown a lot, and it's even been consistent at times (see below), but just like the personnel on the OLine and the WR group..... it comes and it goes.  It's been sporadic.

It's also a big problem that a large percentage of his best games came as a rookie two years ago.  But he's had really good stretches in both 2018 and 2019.

 

 

 

 

Narrow the sample size enough and Brooks Bollinger looks like a starter in the league.

Darnold hasn't show anything regarding the #1 attribute of a FQB--consistency. Sure he's "shown things," only none are relevant to his performing his job at a satisfactory level over sample sizes beyond a few games. Forgive my short hand, although thank you for the opportunity to elaborate.

[Greensleeves]

The NY media created SOJF, not just the Jets performance. There are several teams in the league that have never sniffed a championship game, let alone win a Super Bowl in the NFL and they get less criticism than the Jets. Why, because these reporters need to sell whatever it is they write for. The thing that surprises me is that so many fans don't realize that they ignite the negative thoughts in them - it's a huge manipulation that doesn't just pertain to one NY team. This wouldn't happen in another city. One year after the successive AFC Championship runs we were getting made fun of again. These reporters are mostly responsible.

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Narrow the sample size enough and Brooks Bollinger looks like a starter in the league.

 

Then let's take the most recent 25% of his career (2nd half of 2019 season).  In the final half of 2019 (8 games) he threw only 4 INTs against 13 TDs and the Jets went 6-2.

Is it more likely he forgot how to play football or that this train wreck of an offseason with no preseason games and a Week 1 with 8 new players on offense as compared to 2019, had something to do with it?

[joewilly12]

NFL QB either you have it or you don't. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Then let's take the most recent 25% of his career (2nd half of 2019 season).  In the final half of 2019 (8 games) he threw only 4 INTs against 13 TDs and the Jets went 6-2.

Is it more likely he forgot how to play football or that this train wreck of an offseason with no preseason games and a Week 1 with 8 new players on offense as compared to 2019, had something to do with it?

When I'm buying a house, I evaluate the whole house. If the bedroom is dope but the basement floods, I'm not interested. A FQB costs a lot more than a house.

[Losmeister]

@jetstream23

respectfully...   you are becoming desperate in your attempts to prop up a below avg guy who we happen to spend a sh*tton of draft capital on...

2018 we were 3-3...   still fighting

he plays three games where his QBR are 11.9, 50.0 and 6.7...   7 INTS vs 2 TD and we're ****ed as he gets benched...

2019 plays good in a win to get us off the schnide then plays 3 games where his QBR is 1.1, 19.7 and 55.8 throwin 8 int vs 3 td

and we're ****ed....

garbage time is garbage time

[Jet_Engine1]

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

@jetstream23

respectfully...   you are becoming desperate in your attempts to prop up a below avg guy who we happen to spend a sh*tton of draft capital on...

2018 we were 3-3...   still fighting

he plays three games where his QBR are 11.9, 50.0 and 6.7...   7 INTS vs 2 TD and we're ****ed as he gets benched...

2019 plays good in a win to get us off the schnide then plays 3 games where his QBR is 1.1, 19.7 and 55.8 throwin 8 int vs 3 td

and we're ****ed....

garbage time is garbage time

Hey now, you can only cherry pick data when it supports a positive take on Darnold.

[Philc1]

No way Trevor will ever play for Gase.  He will threaten to sit out the season

[Losmeister]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Hey now, you can only cherry pick data when it supports a positive take on Darnold.

swhat am sayn...

but even if you dont, and lump IT ALL together...    he's bottom 6...   shrug. That's not the type of talent that makes ANYONE better...

also very very few plays made with feet, mobility way overrated. He can shimmy in the pocket and take a few steps here and there and make some plays...     but most NFL Qbs do that as well...

[Spoot-Face]

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

swhat am sayn...

but even if you dont, and lump IT ALL together...    he's bottom 6...   shrug. That's not the type of talent that makes ANYONE better...

also very very few plays made with feet, mobility way overrated. He can shimmy in the pocket and take a few steps here and there and make some plays...     but most NFL Qbs do that as well...

If Darnold turned it around at this point and became a top quartile (or even top half) QB he’d be on a list of like ten guys in league history. I’d need odds to bet on him. Big ones.

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

If Darnold turned it around at this point and became a top quartile (or even top half) QB he’d be on a list of like ten guys in league history. I’d need odds to bet on him. Big ones.

it's a low probability bet...

Alex Smith looks like his ceiling

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

it's a low probability bet...

Alex Smith looks like his ceiling

Homer!  

[Losmeister]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

Homer!  

Also means waiting another 3.5 yrs before he is above average!!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Also means waiting another 3.5 yrs before he is above average!!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03.htm

Can’t give up to early!!

[Losmeister]

Just now, jgb said:

Can’t give up to early!!

Just a second, I'll go get my masters degree ....   and by THAT time...

[The Crusher]

Suddenly Trevor realized how much he loves being in college. 

[jgb]

Just now, Losmeister said:

Just a second, I'll go get my masters degree ....   and by THAT time...

I wish I had the ability to see alternative time lines. I’d kill to see what this place would look like if we had drafted Josh Rosen.

[MS jets Fan]

Week 2 of the season I’ll go with that right now! Too much can happen between now and the end of the season. Sam is under contract and We still don’t know much about Morgan. Sam knows he’s in the cross hairs, so it’s up to him to correct this. JD will have the final say at the end of the season.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Because he'll have 3 years of tape on Darnold to suggest that, even with a decent roster, he'd still not be any good.  You don't need awesome circumstances to evaluate a QB. 

If we end up in a position to draft a new QB, it'll mean we need a new QB (along with a new HC and a bunch of other pieces to surround him with).  This isn't all mutually exclusive.  Douglas didn't draft Darnold.  No one is safe.  

I agree, but what I fear is that we are somewhere in between -  both in draft standing and in our evaluation of Darnold - stuck in no man’s land - like always.

Not good enough to win anything or even inspire hope for the future and not bad enough to get a guy like Lawrence. Rinse and repeat. 

[Jet_Engine1]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

I wish I had the ability to see alternative time lines. I’d kill to see what this place would look like if we had drafted Josh Rosen.

[Beerfish]

18/37,  234 yards, 0 tds, vs the 31st ranked college defense in the biggest game of the year.  Totally and thoroughly out played by the present Cincy QB.

Quinnen Lawrence.

[Untouchable]

If we’re in position for Lawrence, then that means that Darnold was either hurt or completely and utterly fell flat on his face this season. If that’s the case, then by all means, do what it takes to get Lawrence.

But you’d still by and large be ushering him into the same sh*t situation that was thrust upon Darnold unless Douglas just absolutely nails these next two offseasons.

[mudcat22]

If Jets get first pick it's a win win situation.  They either take Laurence or trade down for mucho picks.  Just not like Parcells did it.

[Lith]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

At the end of Year 3 we'll have seen just how good Darnold can be with one season under Bowles/Bates and two under Gase/Loggains where the pinnacle of the weapons he had to throw to were in Year 1 with a healthy Herndon and Robby Anderson, and the pinnacle of his OLine is likely this this season (TBD).

I'm trying to be honest with myself about what this kid is and what he can (or can't) be.  There's some recency bias.... his last game was bad and most of it was on him.  Bad decisions, bad mechanics, etc.  But when I step back it just seems odd that he'd look worse in Year 3 than he did halfway through Year 1.  BUT...maybe it seems odd because this has been an odd year with no preseason games and the Jets only had 3 WRs take snaps on Sunday (one of which was Chris Hogan) and counted on the dynamic duo of Frank Gore and Josh Adams for half the game?

That Darnold had a QB Rating around the same as Tom Brady and Kyler Murray, and better than Baker Mayfield and Carson Wentz doesn't mean much to me with all of those teams playing on the road and against very good defenses.  Offenses are typically behind defenses at the start of the season anyway, but with no preseason games and 2 of the 3 WRs joining the team recently (Perriman, Hogan) and one of them missing practices the past two weeks (Perriman) I'm not shocked that the timing may have been off and the offense out of sync.

As you said, we need to know what we have.  But it may take several weeks before we can get an honest assessment.

Taking several weeks to make an assessment is fine.  As far as I am concerned, he has 15 more weeks to prove what he is.  Sunday was one game.  First game of the season.  After an offseason with major roster turnover on the offensive side of the ball and probably the strangest offseason ever due to Covid.  I hope he bounces back this week and looks better, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I am very skeptical.  He has been dealt a bad hand, but he has not made the most of his cards either. 

When guys are open, hit them.  If the pocket is clean, make quality throws.  Throw receivers open or put balls where only your receiver can catch them.  Show pocket presence.  Extend plays.  Limit turnovers and bonehead plays.  But if we see the same guy we saw Sunday for the rest of the season, this offseason is time to hit the reset button.  Use those two #1s to make sure we come away with Fields/Lawrence/Lance.   

I am rooting for Sam over these next 15 weeks.  Quickest way to success for this team is if Sam proves he can be the guy.  But if he can't, don't waste any more time. 

[Untouchable]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Taking several weeks to make an assessment is fine.  As far as I am concerned, he has 15 more weeks to prove what he is.  Sunday was one game.  First game of the season.  After an offseason with major roster turnover on the offensive side of the ball and probably the strangest offseason ever due to Covid.  I hope he bounces back this week and looks better, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I am very skeptical.  He has been dealt a bad hand, but he has not made the most of his cards either. 

When guys are oprn, hit them.  If the pocket is clean, make quality throws.  Throw receivers open or put balls where only your receiver can catch them.  Show pocket presence.  Extend plays.  Limit turnovers and bonehad plays.  But if we see the same guy we saw Sunday for the rest of the season, this offseason is time to hit the reset button.  Use those two #1s to make sure we come away with Fields/Lawrence/Lance.   

I am rooting for Sam over these next 15 weeks.  Quickest way to success for this team is if Sam proves he can be the guy.  But if he can't, don't waste any more time. 

Yep

I still say Darnold is the best prospect to come out of college since Luck with Lawrence being essentially the lone exception. I never put a guy like Mahomes in that category, as dumb as that may seem in hindsight. I still don’t think even the most ardent fan of Mahomes could have forecasted what he would become in such short order,  even with the guidance of Andy Reid.

Leave it to the Jets to take a natural born, gunslinging playmaker and chop his balls off and turn him into a reluctant gamemanager paired with a questionable at best HC...

Figures 

[Y3k]

14 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yep

I still say Darnold is the best prospect to come out of college since Luck with Lawrence being essentially the lone exception. I never put a guy like Mahomes in that category, as dumb as that may seem in hindsight. I still don’t think even the most ardent fan of Mahomes could have forecasted what he would become in such short order,  even with the guidance of Andy Reid.

Leave it to the Jets to take a natural born, gunslinging playmaker and chop his balls off and turn him into a reluctant gamemanager paired with a questionable at best HC...

Figures 

This fan base can’t handle a gunslinging QB. They lose their sh*t at the first sight of a stupid risky INT (see last Sunday). 

[TheMo]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

At the end of Year 3 we'll have seen just how good Darnold can be with one season under Bowles/Bates and two under Gase/Loggains where the pinnacle of the weapons he had to throw to were in Year 1 with a healthy Herndon and Robby Anderson, and the pinnacle of his OLine is likely this this season (TBD).

I'm trying to be honest with myself about what this kid is and what he can (or can't) be.  There's some recency bias.... his last game was bad and most of it was on him.  Bad decisions, bad mechanics, etc.  But when I step back it just seems odd that he'd look worse in Year 3 than he did halfway through Year 1.  BUT...maybe it seems odd because this has been an odd year with no preseason games and the Jets only had 3 WRs take snaps on Sunday (one of which was Chris Hogan) and counted on the dynamic duo of Frank Gore and Josh Adams for half the game?

That Darnold had a QB Rating around the same as Tom Brady and Kyler Murray, and better than Baker Mayfield and Carson Wentz doesn't mean much to me with all of those teams playing on the road and against very good defenses.  Offenses are typically behind defenses at the start of the season anyway, but with no preseason games and 2 of the 3 WRs joining the team recently (Perriman, Hogan) and one of them missing practices the past two weeks (Perriman) I'm not shocked that the timing may have been off and the offense out of sync.

As you said, we need to know what we have.  But it may take several weeks before we can get an honest assessment.

There is no rush. We'll know by the end of the season. If he is playing like that first game we'll hopefully have the number one overall pick. Fire gase, draft Lawrence and hire toub and bring in Tom Clement as the OC. Might actually turn things around. 

[JetPotato]

This is stupid. If the Jets are in a position to draft Trevor Lawrence, it's because Darnold has failed and it will be time to move on.

[Ghost420]

4 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

Even if the conclusion is that Gase is a terrible coach and Darnold is not a franchise QB, the coach gets way less rope in this particular situation. 

I'm betting that Gase is going to be long gone before we get the final word about Darnold.  Trevor Lawrence is a pipe dream.

Im sure cardinal fans didnt think they'd have murray and now look 

[Ghost420]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

If we’re in position for Lawrence, then that means that Darnold was either hurt or completely and utterly fell flat on his face this season. If that’s the case, then by all means, do what it takes to get Lawrence.

But you’d still by and large be ushering him into the same sh*t situation that was thrust upon Darnold unless Douglas just absolutely nails these next two offseasons.

Exepct we have a LT that looks very promising. Another 1st round pick and 2 2nds. 

 

You tske Lawrence and dump darnold all day long. 

[varjet]

Franchise QBs get drafted at the top of the first round.  If the Jets are bad enough to pick one, they should pick one unless Darnold and the team are playing very, very well.

It is not giving up on Darnold, per se.  It is just that the Jets, 2 years of Mac and 1 year of JD, has not built a team that will allow us to develop or evaluate Darnold.  So if we are bad at the end of this year, which is highly likely, we can’t commit to pay a question mark QB $25mm in 2022.  We are better off trading Darnold and starting over, and hopefully build a team that can capitalize on a rookie QBs contract.

The Jets in 2016 knew they were building for a QB.  Mac totally f’d that up.  Even when he had Hackenburg, he should have been building for him.   JD was in a bad spot and Mac left him a mess, but I would rather have Robby, not Perriman, and $3mm less of cap space.  Heck-why not Robby and Perriman and $10mm less of cap space, if the offense would be better.   If Adams, Clowney, Ngakuoe and/or Logan Ryan were on the Jets last Sunday, I don’t the result is different.  Better offensive players, maybe.