JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Maxta_p said: Waaaaay to soon to call Darnold a bust. Lets surround him with an all pro offense, then make our decision. Id give him another 4-5 years honestly. At least let’s see him with a coach who is not a) a Mannequin/Zombie b) a lunatic whose eyes are bugging out in different directions, who gives the appearance of always being unprepared and who brought with him a 4 foot 11 guy to “coach up” Darnold. NY Jets.....aka “The Land of Misfit Toys” hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, GreekJet said: Jim Plunkett Vinny Testaverde Alex Smith Steve Young (not a top 10 pick, but similar) Ryan Tannehill This new structure where the 5th year option needs to be guaranteed will probably open up the opportunity for a lot more. It seems guys are only getting 2-3 years max these days. Not sure I consider Vinny and Tannehill (at least not yet) as successes after they left their first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Clue Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 hours ago, playtowinthegame said: Is Alex Smith gonna start? Nah, he’s the back up to Kyle Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, rangerous said: Yes but if they’re top ten they’re retained by their teams until they can’t play. There have been quite a few that started with one team got traded around and then finally became successful. Rich Gannon and Jim Plunkett for 2. Drew Brees was traded by the chargers to be replaced by Rivers. Craig Morton took the Broncos to the Super Bowl after being replaced by Staubach on the cowgirls. Right now we are seeing Nick Foles having some success while moving between teams. 1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go... 2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success. 4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule.. 5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreekJet Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: 1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go... FF 2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success. 4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule.. 5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. That’s because in the par if you drafted a QB in the Top 10 you likely rode him for minimum 4 years unless you were a Jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf level bust. In today’s NFL if you don’t prove to be an upper echelon QB after 2-3 years you are done because of the salary cap impact. I’d expect to start seeing some of these guys (see Tannehill) restart their careers and have success elsewhere. The QB position is much better today than it was 10 years ago. There used to be less than 32 guys who were legit NFL QBs. Today there are much more than 32 guys who can give you credible play. As a result QBs need to be special if they want to get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said: Tannehill had a problem staying healthy but when healthy he was always an above average starter. If Darnold had Tannehill's 2015 and 2016 in Miami you'd have people here calling him the second coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingjetfan Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 10 hours ago, JiF said: Is Winston a bust? I guess so because he was a 1st overall pick and now he's a back up but if I'm not mistaken, he's the first QB in the NFL history to throw for 4k and 20+ TD's in his first 2 seasons. He threw for 5k and 33 TD's last season. Idk - that doesnt seem bustish. In fact, I wouldnt be upset if the Jets grabbed Winston in the offseason. Who knows, maybe he's learned something behind Brees and maybe bring Pete Carmichael with him. I know one thing for sure, they'll score points. also threw 10,000 yards to the other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 13 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: 1. Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant top 10 draft pick. If a QB is young and top ten at their position then it would be confusing why their first team would let them go... 2. Rich Gannon - 4th round, Nick Foles 3rd round. Top ten QBs are expected to be starters. They have resources, time, and effort invested in seeing them get there. They also have a much longer rope than a later round pick does. Yes, the league has many example of late round QBs who barely played or had questionable success with their team going elsewhere and succeeding. The point being is 2nd round and later QBs are rarely expected to be franchise QBs. They're usually fliers or expected to develop into a backup QB and get significantly less invested in their success by the team drafting them. 3. Nick Foles - outside of not being a top ten pick - I don't recall him having success with the Jaguars (got beat out by Minshew). He lead an impressive comeback then had a poor game the next week. I'm not sure he can be declared a success. 4. Jim Plunkett ('71) and Craig Morton ('65) - I think only two examples out of 50+ years of football you're covering there... they would be the exceptions proving the rule.. 5. Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft choice. He was replaced by... you guessed it, a top ten selection (4th overall). Also, it's pretty hard to argue that Brees was a failure. When he left the chargers, he had just made the pro bowl and was one of the highest rated QBs in the league. So as I said QBs drafted in the top ten that fail with their first team simply do not go on to other teams and have success. Okay. That makes sense. I think you are right. I don’t recall very many that failed with their original team and then moved on and had success. And even in plunketts case, he was successful with the raiders but it’s not like he was a superstar Qb. One other guy that might make the list is Doug Williams. I don’t know if he was a top 10 pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 hours ago, GreekJet said: Another young QB bust? QBs drafted high since 2015 Busts Darnold Rosen Winston Mariota Haskins Trubisky Jury Still Out/OK Mayfield Jones Lock Tua Wentz Goff Stud Mahomes Watson Allen Jackson Murray Burrow Herbert It's really amazing how soon a team gives up sometimes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 5 hours ago, ageingjetfan said: also threw 10,000 yards to the other team. So did Brett Favre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 15 hours ago, GreekJet said: They are still evaluating him so the jury is still out. Same with Lock and obviously Tua. Mayfield, Wentz, and Goff are middle of the pack guys no more less. Right now Mayfield is miles better than Jones. Wentz is much, much better, they dont belong in the same category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Black QBs have a shorter leash than most. Meanwhile Daniel Jones and Darnold can stink it up weekly and retain jobs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 21 hours ago, Beaver said: Although whats worse. Not knowing if you have the guy or not or knowing he is a bust? I'll take the bust. It hurts, but allows you to move on quickly. If you still "don't know" by Year 3, you have yourself a bust. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Funny that Herbert is a "stud" after three games but the jury is out on Goff. Meanwhile Jones (who has been arguably worse than Darnold) also has the jury out. Bizarre list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 22 hours ago, GreekJet said: Another young QB bust? QBs drafted high since 2015 Busts Darnold Rosen Winston Mariota Haskins Trubisky Jury Still Out/OK Mayfield Jones Lock Tua Wentz Goff Stud Mahomes Watson Allen Jackson Murray Burrow Herbert So four games in and Burrow and Herbert have been declared FQB's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAD_Brooklyn Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said: Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate. I agree with this. I think some of these guys would have benefited a lot from sitting a year. There is a long list of successful QBs that sat most or all of their first year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. I'm not convinced that he is runined though. We have been regressing on the players we put around him...the guy has had little to no time to throw the ball in the passed two years and this year has had no real viable options to throw toSent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, bealeb319 said: I'm not convinced that he is runined though. We have been regressing on the players we put around him...the guy has had little to no time to throw the ball in the passed two years and this year has had no real viable options to throw to Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app No time throw ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Washington could be in on the tank also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Haskins vs Darnold, career numbers: Haskins: 59.6 % completions, 6.6 YPA, 77.8 QB Rating Darnold: 59.8 % completions, 6.7 YPA, 79.6 QB Rating Haskins vs Darnold, 2020 numbers: Haskins: 61.0 % completions, 4 TDs/3 INTs, 6.4 YPA, 80.3 QB Rating Darnold: 59.4 % completions, 3 TDs/4 INTs, 5.7 YPA, 70.7 QB Rating If you use this opportunity to complain about Darnold's "weppinz" vs freaking Washington's, I will stab you. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/7/2020 at 2:35 PM, jeremy2020 said: How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. Eli Manning did nothing with the Chargers and had a likely HOF career with the Giants. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/7/2020 at 2:35 PM, jeremy2020 said: How often has a top 10 QB that failed with one team gone to another and succeeded? Once they're ruined, they're done. I went back to the 1980 and couldn't find any great examples that met the criteria (QB drafted in the top 10 who failed with his first team but succeeded with his 2nd team). The best example I found (though admittedly not great) was Alex Smith. Probably the 2nd best example was Vinny T. As a side note, check out the first 5 picks of the 1989 draft. 4 HOFers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/7/2020 at 4:52 PM, GreekJet said: Jim Plunkett Vinny Testaverde Alex Smith Steve Young (not a top 10 pick, but similar) Ryan Tannehill This new structure where the 5th year option needs to be guaranteed will probably open up the opportunity for a lot more. It seems guys are only getting 2-3 years max these days. Tannehill’s numbers under Adam Gase in Maimi are as follows: 4,974 yards, 38 touchdowns, 21 interceptions in just 24 games. In 12 games in Tennessee, Tannehill put up 2,742 yards with 22 scores and just six interceptions. The numbers are extremely comparable. https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/13/new-york-jets-enough-already-with-the-adam-gase-held-ryan-tannehill-back-narrative/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFJET Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I've got more of an idea about Wentz being a bust than Sam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 13 hours ago, flgreen said: Tannehill’s numbers under Adam Gase in Maimi are as follows: 4,974 yards, 38 touchdowns, 21 interceptions in just 24 games. In 12 games in Tennessee, Tannehill put up 2,742 yards with 22 scores and just six interceptions. The numbers are extremely comparable. https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/13/new-york-jets-enough-already-with-the-adam-gase-held-ryan-tannehill-back-narrative/ I could kiss you. Tannehill didn’t “resurge” he stayed healthy and did what he’s always done: play pretty good football. Of course, that's now magically becoming an "obvious point, duh" but when I expressed that Tannehill was gonna kick ass in Tenn I was roundly ridiculed. Can't wait to replace the CBPOTY sig with Tannehill pro bowl sig (which I also predicted). Being right sometimes has to be its own reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 10/8/2020 at 11:10 AM, LAD_Brooklyn said: Haskin threw for 4,800 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 Int his last year at Ohio State. That's an historic year. I don't see the reason for most of these kids being rushed in as starters. Not many bad teams are constructed in a way for a lad to jump in and be adequate. His teammates hate him and he stinks. Easiest way to get benched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 10/7/2020 at 1:31 PM, Skeet Ulrich said: Kyle Allen is starter, Smith is #2. Haskins got bumped to third string. Haskins all the way back to third string? What did he do, get caught in the hay with the owner's favorite cheerleader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 18 hours ago, Scoop24 said: No time throw ? https://youtu.be/xHmgy4uW6vc Boy, makes you wonder what Darnold might be like if he had people blocking for him or sumpin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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