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Trade with Bengals for #5 overall? Target Lance.


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I've been thinking at the best case scenario for the Jets in the draft and unless they are sold on Wilson and/or Fields as a Franchise QB (I'm not BTW), I think it would have to be moving down to #5 with the Bengals. The Bengals would get Sewell and the Jets would get more draft assets this year and next. Meanwhile, the plan would be to target Lance. NOT Wilson, NOT Fields. Now, I get it, the Bengals would have to bite. But they are kind of in no-mans land at 5, just out of reach of a generational LT who they truly need to protect their 2nd year Franchise QB. 

Personally, I think Lance's stock will rise after the combine but I don't think anyone will consider him the #2 QB. If the Jets move down to #5 I can only imagine one team ahead of them (the Falcons) being interested in a QB. Now, obviously someone could move up to the #3 pick with the Dolphins and take a QB but with Wilson and Fields being considered 'better' prospects than Lance, I can't imagine Lance being gone by #5. Possible but highly unlikely. 

What I like about Lance is his combination of immense upside (physical tools and traits- size/athleticism, cannon arm), leadership, and accuracy. All he's done is put up insane numbers and win. But he's raw and comes from playing in weaker conference. Anyway, I love him as a 'consolation prize' to TL, especially if the Jets can trade down, sit him and develop him while they give Darnold another shot. 

I'm no scout but if the Jets saw Lance as a legit Franchise QB who just needed to be developed a couple of years would you be on board for this strategy? Or would you rather punt on a QB completely this year OR conversely, go with Wilson or Fields #2? (I guess the option would be another QB later on like Mac Jones or Trask).       

I'm posting this thread because it seems like with all the talk since missing out on TL, nobody seems to be considering Lance as even an option.  

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Just now, Untouchable said:

I’d pass on taking a QB altogether.

JD should try his damndest to trade down, accumulate more picks and take a guy like Pitts in the 5-10 area or just stay put at #2 and take Sewell.

And I REALLY don’t buy that he’s going to be interested in someone like Trask or Jones when he just felt the need to use a 4th round pick on James Morgan 8 months ago. Clearly he likes the kid. And supposedly so did Belichick.

You build up the rest of the roster and see what Darnold can do with an improved supporting cast and a coach who knows his ass from his elbow. If Darnold fails, then it is what it is. You make a move for a guy like Howell in 2022 and at least he won’t be marching straight into a meat grinder.

Agreed.  I’m fine with taking Sewell at 2 but if we get a great offer to move down a few sports we gotta really consider it 

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Matt waldman and others seem to think he’s a step or two behind Trevor - but have a higher ceiling. Since Trevor’s gone, I would love to trade down and pick Trey. He probably would have a semi rough first year but I think he can be really good.

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I'm now in the take Sewell and roll with Darnold next year camp.

Ideally after next weekend the strength of schedule works out so that Atlanta jumps above Houston/Miami in the draft.

Then we can convince Atlanta that Carolina is going to trade up with us for Fields, unless Atlanta trades up one spot with us.  Then we can trade down one with Atlanta, pick up some more picks, still stay ahead of Houston/Miami and Cincy and then take Sewell...that would be ideal for me.

 

 

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FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

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9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I’d pass on taking a QB altogether.

JD should try his damndest to trade down, accumulate more picks and take a guy like Pitts in the 5-10 area or just stay put at #2 and take Sewell.

And I REALLY don’t buy that he’s going to be interested in someone like Trask or Jones when he just felt the need to use a 4th round pick on James Morgan 8 months ago. Clearly he likes the kid. And supposedly so did Belichick.

You build up the rest of the roster and see what Darnold can do with an improved supporting cast and a coach who knows his ass from his elbow. If Darnold fails, then it is what it is. You make a move for a guy like Howell in 2022 and at least he won’t be marching straight into a meat grinder.

I'll admit I flip flop, but seeing Tannehill go from complete garbage under Gase to being ranked #4 in the league (QBR) makes me want to see Sam have a year with a real HC/OC combination before I dump him for a 3rd rounder

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7 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'll admit I flip flop, but seeing Tannehill go from complete garbage under Gase to being ranked #4 in the league (QBR) makes me want to see Sam have a year with a real HC/OC combination before I dump him for a 3rd rounder

Agreed

I was all about moving on from Darnold when it looked like we were going to land Lawrence.

But with that dream dead and buried, might as well build the sh*t out of the team with the most cap space in the league and a bounty of draft picks and see what Darnold can do under the tutelage of someone like Daboll.

Neither Fields or Wilson or Lance are some kind of amazing prospects that can’t be passed on. Take Lawrence out of the equation and there are plenty of people who would take the 2022 class of QB’s over the 2021 class.

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1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Agreed

I was all about moving on from Darnold when it looked like we were going to land Lawrence.

But with that dream dead and buried, might as well build the sh*t out of the team with the most cap space in the league and a bounty of draft picks and see what Darnold can do under the tutelage of someone like Daboll.

Neither Fields or Wilson or Lance are some kind of amazing prospects that you just have to take. Take Lawrence out of the equation and there are plenty of people who would take the 2022 class of QB’s over the 2021 class.

Agreed.  Honestly a few weeks ago I accepted the fact that we were going to start over.  But I always felt that Sam was dealt a bad hand by this organization.  He should get a chance with an actual coach and talent around him 

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

As much as I don’t want a QB in the 1st round at this stage, I wouldn’t be against trading a 4th or 5th round pick for a guy like Minshew and having an open competition between him, Darnold and Morgan.

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Just now, Patriot Killa said:

I don’t think enough of Trey Lance tbh. He just gives me as vibes like Paxton Lynch did coming out. 
 

I don’t think he pans out just my opinion.

Honestly the only other  QB I like is Wilson BUT there are concerns with his frame and the fact that he doesn’t go up against the best competition 

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1 minute ago, JetPotato said:

I'm not rooting for a guy named Lance.

A bit easier when it’s the last name. You can call him Trey, messiah or whatever you want. But yeah, Lance, Brock and other names are just not very nice.

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I was also ready to move on from Darnold for Lawrence, but picking 2nd muddies the waters a bit.  My first instinct was, despite being a Darnold fanboy, to move on from him, but as I think it about it more, I'm just not sure that the better play might be to give him one more year to prove himself and take the bookend tackle at #2.

 

Man, I hate this team.

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8 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

As much as I don’t want a QB in the 1st round at this stage, I wouldn’t be against trading a 4th or 5th round pick for a guy like Minshew and having an open competition between him, Darnold and Morgan.

Meh, I think Minshew is back up level but so is Sam, so sure, I guess that's fine, just dont go status quo.  I'd prefer keeping the pick and just signing Dalton or Winston or something like that...

 

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35 minutes ago, JetsFan1986 said:

Agreed.  I’m fine with taking Sewell at 2 but if we get a great offer to move down a few sports we gotta really consider it 

Taking a LT at #2 overall the year after hitting on a LT at #11 overall is just poor roster management, and I fully expect that JD is not gonna go that route. Its great that Sewell is there, though, but strictly as trade bait. 

24 minutes ago, JiF said:

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

I’ve been meaning to ask you, what do you think of Trask? 

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3 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

If the Jets believe there is a franchise QB worth taking in this draft they would be crazy to trade down.

The Dolphins are picking right behind them and could either draft a QB they want or trade the pick to a team that wants to draft a QB.

It's too risky. You stay at 2 and take your guy if you like a QB. 

Does Flores yanking Tua in a must win game make anybody think they are sold on him? Not me.

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37 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I’d pass on taking a QB altogether.

JD should try his damndest to trade down, accumulate more picks and take a guy like Pitts in the 5-10 area or just stay put at #2 and take Sewell.

And I REALLY don’t buy that he’s going to be interested in someone like Trask or Jones when he just felt the need to use a 4th round pick on James Morgan 8 months ago. Clearly he likes the kid. And supposedly so did Belichick.

You build up the rest of the roster and see what Darnold can do with an improved supporting cast and a coach who knows his ass from his elbow. If Darnold fails, then it is what it is. You make a move for a guy like Howell in 2022 and at least he won’t be marching straight into a meat grinder.

This is off on a tangent but the part that is bolded is a negative not a positive.  Bellichick fluked into brady, a guy everyone including the pats passed on many times, 20 years ago.  Guys he has liked since then have been mediocre to utterly awful.  He had years to find a replacement for Brady and he has to sign Cam fricin Newton.

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38 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I'm posting this thread because it seems like with all the talk since missing out on TL, nobody seems to be considering Lance as even an option.  

I've posted a bunch of times about Trey Lance.  I think he would fit in well here because he could sit behind Sam next year.  If Sam looks good, we have a nice problem on our hands.  If not, then we already have our potential solution in-house.  And he'd have already learned for a year from whoever our next HC is going to be.

The thing that stinks is that Cincy is at #5 right now.  If they were at #3, we could've traded back 1 spot and still have been guaranteed that Lance would be there.  If we trade back to #5, there's a real chance some other team might trade up for him. 

Obviously Lance is risky but there's also a potentially big reward.  And with his strong arm and great running ability, I could see teams convincing themselves that he'll be the next Mahomes when we get closer to draft day.  I expect that I'll think that way myself.  

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16 minutes ago, slats said:

Taking a LT at #2 overall the year after hitting on a LT at #11 overall is just poor roster management, and I fully expect that JD is not gonna go that route. Its great that Sewell is there, though, but strictly as trade bait. 

I’ve been meaning to ask you, what do you think of Trask? 

FWIW, I agree with your first point.

As for Trask, I'm not convinced he's anything more then a back up in the pros.  He's just such a limited athlete with such a low ceiling, I just dont think he's all that attractive but a lot of that is just based on what I see working in the NFL today.  He's got some great intangibles and is a very good rhythm/timing passer who can attack all levels of the field.  That said, IMO the statue QB's are a dying breed and while they might make the playoffs; Rivers, Big Ben, Brady, Brees, they're all done winning anything significant IMO.  And he's a statue.  He cant do anything if everything isnt perfect around him...anything off script, is scary.  And when you look at the QB's who are the future; Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Wilson, Murrary, Herbert, Jackson, Burrow, etc. even the older vets having success Wilson, Rodgers, Tannehill - are all athletes with gifts you cant teach and can do the off script stuff too.  Trask is really more of the later and while I woudnt bet against the kid because he's such an incredible story, I think it's going to take the perfect environment, system, coach, etc. to make it work.  Which is why I like Fields so much, he's an all world athlete with ridiculous god given gifts who not only could have gone to any major program in the country, he also has an Ivy league brain (was accepted into Harvard and Yale) ie; stuff you cant teach.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Agreed

I was all about moving on from Darnold when it looked like we were going to land Lawrence.

But with that dream dead and buried, might as well build the sh*t out of the team with the most cap space in the league and a bounty of draft picks and see what Darnold can do under the tutelage of someone like Daboll.

Neither Fields or Wilson or Lance are some kind of amazing prospects that can’t be passed on. Take Lawrence out of the equation and there are plenty of people who would take the 2022 class of QB’s over the 2021 class.

Lol if Fields and Wilson go back to school they are the top 2 picks in the draft next year.

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I’m okay with a trade back to 5. Wilson and Fields are almost guaranteed top 10 prospects. Depending on the coach we could be fine with either, trading back to 5 would probably let us get one or the other.  I prefer Wilson but Fields, Wilson and Lance are worthy of the pick.

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The rep on the Bengals is that they never trade up. Not sure how legit it is, and maybe it changes with Burrow... but I’ve seen dozens of people say this as if it’s fact.

 

Regarding Lance, I think people are underestimating how big a part of the conversation be will be come draft time. Daniel Jeremiah ranked him AHEAD of Trevor Lawerence before the season based on 2019 tape, and he’s the type of guy that will crush the interview process and probably combine. 
 

 

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2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Lol if Fields and Wilson go back to school they are the top 2 picks in the draft next year.

No one knows that for certain

Especially if Fields keeps sh*tting the bed whenever he faces even remotely stiff competition and Wilson once again blows out one of his dainty shoulders.

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19 minutes ago, section314 said:

Does Flores yanking Tua in a must win game make anybody think they are sold on him? Not me.

I agree.

He has not looked good at all this year. He doesn't throw the ball downfield at all. He's the king of the 3 yard completion. He's only just a rookie but teams are starting to have quick pulls when it comes to QB's now. The Cardinals got that ball rolling when they drafted Murray a year after drafting Rosen. 

If the Dolphins aren't sold on Tua, and believe in a QB in this upcoming draft, they could take him.

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