NY Post writes article on Joe Douglas

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You said "25 or so teams" had better drafts than the Jets. Continue.

I mean I can continue if you’d like. But those off the top are the clear ones. 
 

A better question might be- which teams got less production out of their rookies than the Jets ?

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I guess if you think Denzel Mims’ career is already over(?), I can see how you would think this draft class is bad. 

The actual players haven't played much or well. We're not talking about the extenuating circumstances until there is some basic agreement on the facts.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Ah, but it's okay to evaluate the HC under those circumstances and let the GM off the hook?

Interesting.

SAR I

Having WRs affects the offense. 

Its not the reason why theres no motion to the offense, why the QB isnt put into plays that hes better in, why the team was totally undisciplined.  

GAse gailem in every way imaginable not just those based on offense 

[NYJ1]

First of all, I LIKE the NY post. Second of all, I like Costello. He's certainly not Manish. Costello writes good Jets pieces, but he also hasn't sold out and that's the way it should be. Third of all, I find absolutely nothing wrong with this article? 

Perhaps you should stop getting your panties in a bunch?

[CanadaSteve]

9 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

here’s tomorrows back page along with the article in the tweet below. Seems like Costello has taken over for Manish as the biggest dumbass on the beat

 

 

 

 

 

This is a great example as to why NY sport teams, other than the Yankees, can have nice things.  It is ALWAYS about who can get the headline, who can stir the most S**t.  

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

The actual players haven't played much or well. We're not talking about the extenuating circumstances until there is some basic agreement on the facts.

A pandemic not being extenuating circumstances, I see.

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Man just win some games. Compete for the playoffs. Douglas is making a boatload of money, figure it out. The excuse making on this board is at a level it’s never been. The team was held more accountable when they were actually making the playoffs.

Hes had one real offseason to improve a roster devoid of talent

Thats not an excuse, its reality.  

There needs to be some patience with the picks made and the whine about the picks made 9 months ago is pointless

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean I can continue if you’d like. But those off the top are the clear ones. 
 

A better question might be- which teams got less production out of their rookies than the Jets ?

You are cutting corners here. 

I will chop at one on your list-Dallas. Explain to me how the Dallas draft class is clearly better than the Jets. They got CeeDee Lamb, who fell conveniently in their lap, and that is a first round win. But what else did they get? A bunch of nothing defensive players that contributed to the leagues worst defense. 

Tell me how that is a far and wide above the Jets draft? And as a reminder, I am not in the camp of evaluating drafts (particularly this one) after such a short range view.

And let's not forget, you are far short of your 25 or so.

[CanadaSteve]

2 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

The actual players haven't played much or well. We're not talking about the extenuating circumstances until there is some basic agreement on the facts.

Then lets make some basic agreements:

1) This was one of the worst coached teams in the NFL, and it actually does make a difference.

2) As of right now, this draft class, out of 9 picks, had 5 people starting either for all or part of the season.

3)  Early returns are out of the 9 picks, we had 7 players who played in games, and 6 who contributed.

4) Of those 6 contributors, 3 were full-time starters.  

How's that?

[CanadaSteve]

48 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Plus another 25 teams or so. The Jets got basically nothing besides a tackle who takes himself out of games and a punter. Counting on Mims to do anything or be a starter next season is silly, especially seeing how profile to be the other rookie receivers were. 

This is a whole lotta something....

[prime21]

I can understand the purpose for the article being written but the back page???  That's really somebody just trying to rain on the good vibes parade we have had this past two weeks.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

As far as Becton goes, it looks like he should be a good player. But if he's missing games and taking himself out again next year, it's going to be a problem.

Mims is an unknown coming off a disappointing rookie year.

Davis struggled. 

Zuniga will probably be on the roster bubble.

Perine looked sluggish. Powell stunk as a rookie so you hope it was just acclimation, but a 4.6+ 40 is what it is.

Davis- wasted pick most likely

Clarke- Roster bubble most likely

Punter- great

Tough Room

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

A pandemic not being extenuating circumstances, I see.

Not relevant extenuating circumstances considering everybody else had to deal with it too.

I don't care if Douglas misses picks. Everybody misses picks. Nobody can beat the draft, at least as far as the actual selecting of players. But again nobody is going to concede silver linings when you people won't acknowledge the cloud.

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I'm still honeymooning, but I thought the article was completely fair. He's mostly been busy cleaning up the last guy's mess, but we've seen that before. That's the easy part of the job; removing bad players with big contracts and clearing cap space. That's Idzik level bull****. The hard part is putting together a winning team. There's pressure this year, but I suspect most fans (and the NY sports media) will be pretty content with a near .500 record, and a team that isn't regularly getting blown out in their losses. But they need to get at least there. 

Cleaning up Mac's mess gets lost in all this. Jets fans are idiots in that they want instant results. They see Joe Douglas being the GM of a 2-14 team, without knowing any other details, and they cast judgment. Those people are dingbats.

I thank you for stating the obvious.. Joe Douglas was forced to spend about one season unf*cking all the sh*t Mac f*cked up.

From here on out is where I see the honeymoon is over. This off season forward is where JD needs to show his drafting ability, hiring, and FA prowess is beneficial, and in sharp contrast to Mac, for the NYJ.

JMO, but I think he's going to do a good job. I think he's going to build the NYJ into contenders.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Not relevant extenuating circumstances considering everybody else had to deal with it too.

I don't care if Douglas misses picks. Everybody misses picks. Nobody can beat the draft, at least as far as the actual selecting of players. But again nobody is going to concede silver linings when you people won't acknowledge the cloud.

Not sure who "you people" are, but I agree. Do you mean posters that were not formerly banned twice and reincarnate?

[T0mShane]

36 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I do t think it’s over, I wouldn’t be relying on him to start year 2 though. He couldn’t get on the field and when he did, he struggled to get open.  The Jets need to take at least 2 receivers or sign someone other than a Periman level player. Douglas talked about building the best culture in football, signing guys who have milked injuries throughout their career like Permian doesn’t really align.

I think, big picture, you look at the draft and he locked up OLT1 for ten years, and he’s got a promising WR2 and CB2 out of it. If none of the other players pan out, that’s a relatively impressive haul for one draft class. I can’t point to what they did in year one and say “welp, they didn’t produce!” because the HC and QB melted down early on and the whole thing went sideways. I think if Mims, Becton, and Hall—simply as prospects— were in this year’s draft class, they’d each go higher than they did last year, which is a good sign. 

[bitonti]

Braden Mann is not actually one of the leagues best punters. He just gets the most reps. Check the stats 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I thank you for stating the obvious.. Joe Douglas was forced to spend about one season unf*cking all the sh*t Mac f*cked up.

Historically, @slats doesn’t give credit to new GM’s who have to expend time and resources cleaning up the wreckage of the previous, awful administration. 

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You are cutting corners here. 

I will chop at one on your list-Dallas. Explain to me how the Dallas draft class is clearly better than the Jets. They got CeeDee Lamb, who fell conveniently in their lap, and that is a first round win. But what else did they get? A bunch of nothing defensive players that contributed to the leagues worst defense. 

Tell me how that is a far and wide above the Jets draft? And as a reminder, I am not in the camp of evaluating drafts (particularly this one) after such a short range view.

And let's not forget, you are far short of your 25 or so.

Diggs was probably the best rookie CB up until he broke his foot. Him and Lamb are two surefire every down starters for them long term. WR 1B at worst and CB 1.

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Diggs was probably the best rookie CB up until he broke his foot. Him and Lamb are two surefire every down starters for them long term. WR 1B at worst and CB 1.

He graded as meh, by PFF. Not sure why Diggs is up in your grading despite injury, yet you ding Jets that had injuries. Seems uneven. BTW, Bryce Hall graded similarly (59.7) by PFF. 

Waiting on those other 14 or so teams that grade out far and above the Jets.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/trevon-diggs/41817

2020 PLAYER GRADES

EDGE

OVERALL

 

 

62.7

[SAR I]

33 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Having WRs affects the offense. 

Its not the reason why theres no motion to the offense, why the QB isnt put into plays that hes better in, why the team was totally undisciplined.  

GAse gailem in every way imaginable not just those based on offense 

The offense worked in late 2019 to the tune of a 6-2 record and the pieces Douglas brought in for 2020 didn't work.  He didn't replace Robby, he underestimated Robby's value to Darnold, and the OL pieces he brought in were a step back.  I can't blame Gase for not running a sexy motion offense when Jets fans couldn't name the starting 3 WR's for half the season either.

I'm not defending Gase.  Just saying we should have a Gase-like set of standards for Douglas.  In GM circles, no one is getting the gold jacket ready for a guy who just went 2-14 after two years.  Douglas gets a second draft and FA period, surely, but we made the mistake of sitting on Maccagnan too long and we can't let that happen again.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The offense worked in late 2019 to the tune of a 6-2 record and the pieces Douglas brought in for 2020 didn't work.  He didn't replace Robby, he underestimated Robby's value to Darnold, and the OL pieces he brought in were a step back.  I can't blame Gase for not running a sexy motion offense when Jets fans couldn't name the starting 3 WR's for half the season either.

I'm not defending Gase.  Just saying we should have a Gase-like set of standards for Douglas.  In GM circles, no one is getting the gold jacket ready for a guy who just went 2-14 after two years.  Douglas gets a second draft and FA period, surely, but we made the mistake of sitting on Maccagnan too long and we can't let that happen again.

SAR I

The offense never worked.  I dont care how many meaningless games they won at the end of 2019. If you watched those games and came away convinced that you were watching a even decent offense, a disciplined team that was well coached you need to take a step back and reevaluate things.  

JD is viewed as a rising GM, people think he will be a good one for years.  Gase is viewed as a total failure at HC who will never get a HC gig again.  I cant help it if some cant see and admit that they tore the team down to prepare for a rebuild.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

42 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

As far as Becton goes, it looks like he should be a good player. But if he's missing games and taking himself out again next year, it's going to be a problem.

Mims is an unknown coming off a disappointing rookie year.

Davis struggled. 

Zuniga will probably be on the roster bubble.

Perine looked sluggish. Powell stunk as a rookie so you hope it was just acclimation, but a 4.6+ 40 is what it is.

Davis- wasted pick most likely

Clarke- Roster bubble most likely

Punter- great

First off consider some need that first bit of summer NFL coaching than others, were robbed of a lot of it due to covid, and then compound it with IR injuries from late summer through the first half of their rookie seasons for to Mims, Zuniga, Davis, and Clark. Davis also missed multiple games early on, but not as much.

So here’s what I’d consider fair.

Becton = looks like he could/should be better than just good. For a prospect that was supposed to be on the raw side, it’s reasonable to expect improvement in pass blocking from a rookie performance. Actually there’s reason to expect that from any LT between a rookie season and the rest of his career. He’s already a premiere run-blocking LT. If he becomes at least 80% of what Ferguson was in pass blocking he’s a top 3 LT. And his pass blocking was more a handful of really bad whiffs in 2 games but was still mostly solid there, so the problem was more consistency: excellent, with a bit of getting rookie-schooled by a serious edge rusher or two. The problem with praising JD for the pick isn’t the player, but the idea that a child dead-set on drafting a tackle at #11 would have nailed it, too. There was a binary choice of Becton or Wirfs, so he really couldn’t have made a bad pick. Even if he limited himself to tackle or any top-25 drafted WR over 6’ tall he still had a 0% chance of failure (though the latter would’ve been harder to assess success due to Darnold. Speaking of which...).

Mims = missing the first half of the season was disappointing, and unlike many/most WRs who have rookie success, there was no “true #1” WR opposite him drawing double-teams. Plus we saw at least a couple examples of plays where not only was he open but Darnold was staring right at him & either threw it late or didn’t even throw it at all. With Darnold looking like crap for most of the season, I don’t know how many WRs running deeper routes who wouldn’t appear disappointing. Anderson looked like a big meh since losing a consistent (but still weak-armed) old McCown, and then seemed to reappear when he went to Carolina — yes with a serious target opposite him but at the same time Bridgewater is just ok himself. Mims hasn’t had ok. He’s had Darnold. Came off IR and KC was his first NFL game. His only 2 games with Flacco (who also sucks, mind you) resulted in 11 rec/133 yds. His 6 games with Darnold 12 rec/224 yds. He can’t throw it to himself. 

Davis = arguably the biggest disappointment in the class based on expectations (iirc people said he had an upper 2nd rd grade and we got him a round later) and not being able to use injuries or Darnold as the primary excuses, though he did end up missing several games by the end. He could be a big nothing or he didn’t take well to a combination of the coaching, the D they ran, and maybe being overwhelmed as a rookie (many are). He’s one I’m hopeful will take a massive leap forward as a soph with some playing time under his belt and improved coaching. If he doesn’t, I wouldn’t hold my breath beyond that because he looked pretty bad as a rookie. At least the appearance of him being a steal early-on made Douglas more comfortable in moving Adams. Worst case, mentally cancel out Seattle’s 3rd rounder and this one and we’re still sitting on a pair of 1st rounders net for a safety who had a suspect season on top of more missed games to injury. I don’t know that you can totally remove this pick from that later trade, so that’s something I guess lol. 

Zuniga = one of the illustrious 4 who missed needed summer practice (which itself was badly abbreviated with covid) and then the first half of his rookie season. Then really I don’t know what position he was supposed to play. Certainly if he was great out of the gate he’d have taken Anderson’s job away from him. We didn’t see enough of him to know what’s wrong with him other than they didn’t want to play him. Not always, but even with suspect coaching that’s usually enough of an indictment. Williams, for all his faults, has been employed defensive coach in the NFL since 1990 (mostly as a DC); he doesn’t know zero about defensive linemen where he’s got a 14-sack end just standing there and he’s benching him without reason.

Perine = don’t know; he could be ok. Unless blessed with rare gifts, the OL and team usually makes the RB. The Jets’ run blocking, other than Becton, was pretty lousy. Combine that with Darnold & his WRs not exactly keeping defenses honest, and you’re not going to usually see much. I’m not worried about his 40 time, since he’ll rarely get the chance to run 40 yards on offense and there’s no shortage of productive (if not probowl/all-pro) RBs with similar & slower times. Agree he doesn’t look special, but for some backs just a 10-20% in space for his first hole can be the difference between amply productive and suck.

Morgan = looks like a wasted pick so far, no doubt, and what’s worse is how it looked like a wasted pick the moment it was made. It appeared to be JD trying to block NE from getting him; that’s not what you do with mid-round picks when you still need so many starters, made that much worse with some WR & OL talent still on the board. We’d all care a lot less if he was a bad 6th/7th round pick since 90% of those are zeros & anyway. He’s not likely going to get enough starting time to show he’s worth keeping long term even as a backup. Too early to say for sure, but when you’re effectively 4th string on a team without a single good QB in its top 3, that’s Hackenberg territory. Hopefully he’s turning any heads in camp this summer, but so far this pick is just awful.

Clark = player #3 from the IR club, rounding out what so far seems like a disastrous round 4 after 1 year. I don’t think he was expected to be among the more polished prospects who fell due to lack of upside; more like the opposite. But it’s never encouraging when a fairly recent young bust day 2 pick like Elflein is outright released for being terrible and, despite below average play of his own, had so little trouble instantaneously leapfrogging Clark on the depth chart.

Hall = looks like an excellent pick so far. My understanding is the reason he fell was durability concern, and not yet seeing him bounce back from his last injury, rather than not having innate talent. The last of the 4 from the Jets’ rookie IR club, he at least took advantage of the lack of depth the Jets had at the position and, for a 6th round pick, with limited rookie camp, and missing the first half of that rookie season outright, he did an excellent job. Looks like he belongs on the field, if he’s durable enough to stay on it, and his ceiling should be higher than half a rookie season.

Mann = meh it’s such a late pick it’s hard to criticize any rookie. He was one of the league’s worst punters by the numbers, and the only thing he led in was compiling total punts & yards because of the embarrassing offense. But punters and kickers can often look like crap one year and top 10 or better the next year. He’ll get competition in 2021 and if he loses I’m still not upset.

Summary = I think because of covid and the overboard injuries as rookies, it’s difficult to assess how good or bad this class will prove to be. If it merely holds as-is, he hit on a can’t miss pick and got lucky with Hall, but heading into 2021 free agency we needed to see early maturing from more picks so he knows he doesn’t need to spend on starters at those positions. I do think that’s at least partly why he played it closer to the vest in FA in 2020. But it’s a disappointment, especially with the strength of the year’s draft class overall, plus there were no shortage of starting opportunities on the 2020 Jets to get a good look at them.

Entire careers aren’t automatically over after limited rookie action, but his five consecutive 3rd & 4th round picks are hard to look at on paper so far. 

[slats]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Historically, @slats doesn’t give credit to new GM’s who have to expend time and resources cleaning up the wreckage of the previous, awful administration. 

Lol, false! 

I give everybody a chance, and keep giving them chances longer than most. Then people call me a "homer," and I log off and cry a little. 

[Lith]

4 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Nothing wrong with the piece.  Douglas had a very solid draft.  I’d estimate that at  a minimum, 6 of the players he drafted will make the roster next season. That’s how we will build a team.  Everyone has misses, but he certainly has a clue.  And I applaud that he was calculated in FA last offseason 

I agree.  Was not a bad piece.  A bit harsh in spots, but the conclusion that the teams needs to be much better on the field next season is reasonable.  Douglas has his coach, it will be his second draft and FA classes, plus he has the extra picks from the Jamal trade.  The team cannot afford another 2-14 season that is over in October.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

Shouldn't these 4 be grouped together in 1 "He made a Great Hire with Saleh on many levels"

What fun would that be? I don't think even Jet fans knew the depth of this signing regarding HOW MUCH this guy was regarded by players, ie. Allen Robinson. 

[32EBoozer]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, false! 

I give everybody a chance, and keep giving them chances longer than most. Then people call me a "homo," and I log off and cry a little. 

I think you misread what they wrote about you! Fixed!

[slats]

4 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

I think you misread what they wrote about you! Fixed!

Hard to sue for defamation if it's true. 

[WestCoastOffensive]

14 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

This article was way out of line to even question Douglas. The guy was given the worst situation in the league and has done a great job 

You're on target with the Manish reference. Coz is getting killed on Jets Twitter; for setting the lines in an imaginary power struggle between HC and the GM. I was stunned. Nothing on "Big Joe's Adventure"; all about re-hashing qualifications that are moot at this point. The Post is useless.

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, ID. said:

This is kinda scary:

”One curious decision Douglas has made is not changing the scouting staff. He largely has the same scouts who worked under Maccagnan when the Jets drafted terribly. Douglas has hired one scout.”

Macc never really even listened to his scouts.  So we have little idea whether they're any good or not.  

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Plus another 25 teams or so. 

Please list the teams. 

It’s hard to compare drafts but Becton is definitely an upper tier 1st round draft pick from last year’s class.  

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc never really even listened to his scouts.  So we have little idea whether they're any good or not.  

I’ve always felt that this is overrated because scouts don’t all agree, anyway. IMO, being a good GM is about being a good decision maker - you listen to a bunch of different people’s opinions, get everyone’s input, integrate and assess information from all of your sources, and make a decision. 

[kevinc855]

I mean he’s right tho...

In 2 seasons he has an ok record....nothing spectacular for sure. Nothing incompetent either. Kinda meh 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

I mean he’s right tho...

In 2 seasons he has an ok record....nothing spectacular for sure. Nothing incompetent either. Kinda meh 

This is the key off-season that will define his tenure here.

remeber that, he was here in name only for the first season. He got here after free agency and the draft with no viable way to significantly improve the team until the following offseason.  
 

This is his second offseason as Jets GM. 

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I mean he’s right tho...

In 2 seasons he has an ok record....nothing spectacular for sure. Nothing incompetent either. Kinda meh 

1 draft. 1 free agency period. 

Grade: Incomplete.