DESHAUN OFFICIALLY REQUESTS TRADE BABY

[David Harris]

6 hours ago, football guy said:

People act like I've been on here touting him as the next Messiah just because I think the team is moving forward with him and that the rest of the league thinks really highly of him. Tape study suggests that his issues are correctable and that he should be able to maximize his ability in the new offense. I have no idea if that means he'll be Ryan Fitzpatrick, Aaron Rodgers or somewhere in between... all I know is that the Jets see a 23-year-old with unique talent who has great work habits and has had an unfair shake his first 3 years. They believe he can be a starting QB you can win with, but are unsure what his ceiling is. Talent wise? His ceiling is through the roof. But processing wise, the ability to command the field and make better decisions with consistency, they realize much of this is unknown, and are curious to see if the new environment will provide clarity on that. 

I think the best way to put it is this: on a good team, they think he can be what Jimmy Garoppolo has been which is a talented QB who's a good fit for their offense, but is missing something preventing him from being an elite QB. That won't stop them from exploring upgrades, but what makes Darnold different is his age, untapped potential, and the realization he's been in a sh*t situation. There's a reason 12-15 teams have inquired...

 

If he doesn't work out, they have built-in flexibility due to unlimited cash and draft picks in 2022 to address the position. 

If he works out, you could be on your way to building the next 3-5 year dynasty a la the Chiefs with up to 8 1st round picks in a 3-year span with tons of financial flexibility. 

I honestly think this is the best post I’ve read maybe ever.  Relevant and reasonable and yes, informed.

If we don’t get Watson (my limit is 3 firsts and Sam if they want him) then I prefer to keep Sam rather than take any other QB in this draft after TLaw goes. 

[pointman]

If there are any breaking developments, or delicious cryptic speculative posts.. please make a new thread. I can't continue on with this thread. Thanks.

[playtowinthegame]

 

[Maxman]

20 minutes ago, pointman said:

If there are any breaking developments, or delicious cryptic speculative posts.. please make a new thread. I can't continue on with this thread. Thanks.

We will call your home phone # with updates as they happen.

[Philc1]

After that Stafford trade you can forget about Watson

[Larz]

The staffird deal makes the compensation for Watson counterproductive and it’s simply not likely that the Texans will take a lot less than his value to do a deal

 

[neckdemon]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

After that Stafford trade you can forget about Watson

lol. this might be true. no way should we trade something like all of our first rounders this year and next plus darnold. its just too much for one player

[neckdemon]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

The staffird deal makes the compensation for Watson counterproductive and it’s simply not likely that the Texans will take a lot less than his value to do a deal

 

as of now it seems like the texans aren't even entertaining any offers for him at all

[predator_05]

7 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

as of now it seems like the texans aren't even entertaining any offers for him at all

Playing hard to get. 

Wait until Watson punches the mascot, then it's on. 

[neckdemon]

1 minute ago, predator_05 said:

Playing hard to get. 

Wait until Watson punches the mascot, then it's on. 

it's not gonna be worth the price to get him. 4 1sts is a stupid price to pay

[bla bla bla]

 

[Jet2020]

19 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

lol. this might be true. no way should we trade something like all of our first rounders this year and next plus darnold. its just too much for one player

Our 2nd overall alone is worth 3-5x what Rams paid. It’s 2022 and 2023 firsts and most likely late firsts at best. Third is a wash against getting Goffs contract. 

If anything, this trade cemented current years draft value. Rams didn’t budge on giving up the 2nd rounder (their first pick this year) and instead received a 3rd. So Lions only received high future draft picks. Would you give up the Seattle first for a late first in 2022 and a late first in 2023? No way. That’s our 23rd this year. Our 2nd carries an astronomical value. Watson isn’t worth giving up 4 firsts including the 2nd overall. 

If Texans want 4 future first, take OUR firsts from 2022-2025 and we can call it a deal. 

[Dunnie]

8 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

ummm ..no

[Dunnie]

9 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Our 2nd overall alone is worth 3-5x what Rams paid. It’s 2022 and 2023 firsts and most likely late firsts at best. Third is a wash against getting Goffs contract. 

If anything, this trade cemented current years draft value. Rams didn’t budge on giving up the 2nd rounder (their first pick this year) and instead received a 3rd. So Lions only received high future draft picks. Would you give up the Seattle first for a late first in 2022 and a late first in 2023? No way. That’s our 23rd this year. Our 2nd carries an astronomical value. Watson isn’t worth giving up 4 firsts including the 2nd overall. 

If Texans want 4 future first, take OUR firsts from 2022-2025 and we can call it a deal. 

so if we are taking contracts into account i say we offer the 23rd round pick for Watson and that is all.

[bla bla bla]

15 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

so if we are taking contracts into account i say we offer the 23rd round pick for Watson and that is all.

I think Douglas will win this trade if it happens.

[Dunnie]

Just now, bla bla bla said:

I think Douglas will win this trade if it happens.

If the trade happens we better win it because Douglas' future will be tied to it.

Which is why I don't see it .. Watson doesn't have the history that would justify risking your career over. Douglas is more likely to trust his hand picked scouting department.

[Jet2020]

13 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

so if we are taking contracts into account i say we offer the 23rd round pick for Watson and that is all.

Why? Watson’s contract is bad? Remember the Osweiler trade? Texans gave up Osweiler, a 2nd and a 6th for Browns 4th rounder. Salary cap dump. Watson isn’t a salary cap dump like Goff. 

[Dunnie]

5 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Why? Watson’s contract is bad? Remember the Osweiler trade? Texans gave up Osweiler, a 2nd and a 6th for Browns 4th rounder. Salary cap dump. Watson isn’t a salary cap dump like Goff. 

How did that Osweiller trade work out ?

[BCJet]

35 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Our 2nd overall alone is worth 3-5x what Rams paid. It’s 2022 and 2023 firsts and most likely late firsts at best. Third is a wash against getting Goffs contract. 

If anything, this trade cemented current years draft value. Rams didn’t budge on giving up the 2nd rounder (their first pick this year) and instead received a 3rd. So Lions only received high future draft picks. Would you give up the Seattle first for a late first in 2022 and a late first in 2023? No way. That’s our 23rd this year. Our 2nd carries an astronomical value. Watson isn’t worth giving up 4 firsts including the 2nd overall. 

If Texans want 4 future first, take OUR firsts from 2022-2025 and we can call it a deal. 

This is 100% accurate.  The Rams trade is not even close to the same situation as Watson and has very little bearing other then to show the value of cap space.  The Rams improved dramatically at QB AND shed salary - to do that it costs picks, and late firsts simply arent as valuable as they are portrayed.  

The Texans arent gonna get 4 firsts, there just arent teams that will give up those picks while at the same time being competitive enough for Watson to waive the no-trade clause.  #2, 2022 first and 2023 first plus Sam and we take on their worst contract along with Watson.  Thats how this is gonna play out.

[BigRy56]

After seeing the Stafford deal I think only the Jets and Dolphins can afford Watson. If the Texans wait until after this draft, I would think that takes Miami out of it - I don’t think they have the same level of picks moving forward as they do this year

[Jets723]

3 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

After seeing the Stafford deal I think only the Jets and Dolphins can afford Watson. If the Texans wait until after this draft, I would think that takes Miami out of it - I don’t think they have the same level of picks moving forward as they do this year

I still don’t see it happening.  After the Stafford trade the cost is going to be Astronomical.  Douglas seems to be a guy who wants to build through the draft.  I think we can all agree the Jets have easily have more holes on their roster than any other team so obviously trading away a ton of high picks makes that much harder to fix.  It doesn’t seem like Douglas’s way of doing things especially at that crazy cost.  Texans are in no rush to trade him either UNLESS they get a massive epic return 

[Jet2020]

18 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

How did that Osweiller trade work out ?

For? It was a salary cap dump from Houston so they achieved their goal. 

For Browns, it was buying a 2nd rounder for a few mil of their cap space, which they had loads of. Worked out well for the purpose intended. Osweiler was released, as expected, I believe. 

[Jets Things]

30 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

If the trade happens we better win it because Douglas' future will be tied to it.

Which is why I don't see it .. Watson doesn't have the history that would justify risking your career over. Douglas is more likely to trust his hand picked scouting department.

If JD's hand-picked scouting department isn't telling him Watson is a top 5 QB, they should all be fired. 

[Dunnie]

Just now, Jets Things said:

If JD's hand-picked scouting department isn't telling him Watson is a top 5 QB, they should all be fired. 

What exactly has Watson done to make you believe this ? 4-12 ?

[Jets Things]

5 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

What exactly has Watson done to make you believe this ? 4-12 ?

A bunch of single digit losses and a horrible defense. And I've seen him play. 

[Dunnie]

24 minutes ago, Jets Things said:

A bunch of single digit losses and a horrible defense. And I've seen him play. 

I see a 4-12 QB that has won exactly 1 playoff game ... with JJ Watt on defense --- and a superstar wide receiver until this year.

 

Is he above average ... absolutely ... is he break the bank good ?? top 5 ? i think not.

 

Is the best landing place for him a team that has the least amount of talent in the league ?  Absolutely not. Not with that contract.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Dunnie

[Jets723]

14 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I see a 4-12 QB that has won exactly 1 playoff game ... with JJ Watt on defense --- and a superstar wide receiver until this year.

 

Is he above average ... absolutely ... is he break the bank good ?? top 5 ? i think not.

 

Is the best landing place for him a team that has the least amount of talent in the league ?  Absolutely not. Not with that contract.

Agreed.  Plus Douglas isn’t going to give up a Kings ransom Knowing he had to fill in a ton of positions on this roster.  Just not how he operates nor is it smart.  Now if we had a better roster already in place then fine yeah I could see it but not the state of the team currently 

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Playing hard to get. 

Wait until Watson punches the mascot, then it's on. 

https://resources.plantricianproject.org/toro-houston-s-mascot/content/698c05f3c5d926e4d9d58e966ff9019c/texans-mascot-toro-whipping-the-titan-fan

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

football guy just said the Texans aren't trading Watson.  Presumably, he thinks they never will trade him.  Not now or in a future season.

In fairness he makes at least a couple good points why they shouldn’t. Just because I can think of reasons they should, that doesn’t erase the other half of the PROS/CONS t-chart. 

• The Texans are going to be terrible anyway. At least they won’t be terrible with the narrative that they didn’t get enough for Watson (which will be the narrative no matter what they get).
• The Texans will be seen as doing everything possible to mend fences if they hold him. If they trade him - particularly if they trade him in February (officially taking place in March) - there’ll be years of saying they gave up too soon on changing his mind.
• The rookie QB they get at #2 (or #3 or whatever) doesn’t have to get compared to Deshaun Watson so narrowly as “Houston traded Watson for ____,” which of course will happen, and even worse in the face of the upcoming failure season with the Texans.
• Wherever Watson goes - particularly to the Jets - will see a surge in wins. Many lazy commenters (including prominent sportscasters & writers) will ignore any other picks and spending the Jets will do, and will instead say that it could & would have been Houston improving by 6-8 games. 
• There’s also an ego thing surely involved, like rewarding a player for holding out because he didn’t get to choose a GM and HC. I know it’s not quite that simple, but plenty see it that way, and who knows what was said: “We’d like you to be part of the process” could be now misrepresented as “We promise your input will be integral parts of these decisions [wink-wink you can veto anyone you don’t like].”

I’m sure I can think of more reasons if I wanted.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

How did that Osweiller trade work out ?

They gave his money to Hopkins and his reps to Watson. So I'd say it went pretty well.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

If the trade happens we better win it because Douglas' future will be tied to it.

Which is why I don't see it .. Watson doesn't have the history that would justify risking your career over. Douglas is more likely to trust his hand picked scouting department.

His hand picked scouting department would have also scouted Watson at some point as well though and if they haven't they can turn their attention to his NFL tape for clarity. I agree I don't think Douglas risks his career on this move without consulting others as well.

I think Watson likely gives you the same job security as drafting a QB #2. The only real difference IMO is that we'd have the expectations of competing for the playoffs this season with Watson.

[32EBoozer]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Texans are going to be terrible anyway. At least they won’t be terrible with the narrative that they didn’t get enough for Watson (which will be the narrative no matter what they get).

Every company’s worst nightmare is what the Texans are facing. No viable solution to get out of the hole created by ownership and O’Brien. An elderly entitled owner who can’t see the culture change taking place and terrible trades & contracts damning the team to years of irrelevance. A fan base disgusted and angry.

Option A: So you choose to keep Watson and ride out the storm hoping that the new coaches can calm the seas. But you still are in cap he’ll. Watt and Mercilus contracts are suffocating you. You need to trade Watt, but only to a place he can win a ring out of respect. 
 

Option B: Put on your Kevlar and go full rebuild. Trade Watson & Watt and Mercilus for the best deals you can get. Draft Qb and others foundational players and start over with this chapter as your guidepost moving forward. It will be ugly but if you build a winner in 2-3 years fans will forget and move on. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by 32EBoozer

[bla bla bla]

2 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Every company’s worst nightmare is what the Texans are facing. No viable solution to get out of the hole created by ownership and O’Brien. An elderly entitled owner who can’t see the culture change taking place and terrible trades/contracts damning the team to years of irrelevance. A fan base disgusted and angry.
Option A: So you choose to keep Watson and ride out the storm hoping that the new coaches can calm the seas. But you still are in cap he’ll. Watt and Mercilus contracts are suffocating you. You need to trade Watt, but only to a place he can win a ring out of respect. 
 

Option B: Put on your Kevlar and go full rebuild. Trade Watson & Watt and Mercilus for the best deals you can get. Draft Qb and others foundational players and start over with this chapter as your guidepost moving forward. It will be ugly but if you build a winner in 2-3 years fans will forget and move on. 

Watt is an interesting piece, do teams want 1 year $17.5m from him or are they willing to risk getting him as a Free Agent? There is no dead money associated with Watt so teams know he'll have to be cut. If he does get cut I think he takes less money to go to Pittsburgh to play with his brothers.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness he makes at least a couple good points why they shouldn’t. Just because I can think of reasons they should, that doesn’t erase the other half of the PROS/CONS t-chart. 

• The Texans are going to be terrible anyway. At least they won’t be terrible with the narrative that they didn’t get enough for Watson (which will be the narrative no matter what they get).
• The Texans will be seen as doing everything possible to mend fences if they hold him. If they trade him - particularly if they trade him in February (officially taking place in March) - there’ll be years of saying they gave up too soon on changing his mind.
• The rookie QB they get at #2 (or #3 or whatever) doesn’t have to get compared to Deshaun Watson so narrowly as “Houston traded Watson for ____,” which of course will happen, and even worse in the face of the upcoming failure season with the Texans.
• Wherever Watson goes - particularly to the Jets - will see a surge in wins. Many lazy commenters (including prominent sportscasters & writers) will ignore any other picks and spending the Jets will do, and will instead say that it could & would have been Houston improving by 6-8 games. 
• There’s also an ego thing surely involved, like rewarding a player for holding out because he didn’t get to choose a GM and HC. I know it’s not quite that simple, but plenty see it that way, and who knows what was said: “We’d like you to be part of the process” could be now misrepresented as “We promise your input will be integral parts of these decisions [wink-wink you can veto anyone you don’t like].”

I’m sure I can think of more reasons if I wanted.

There is some good stuff here but there is no 'they' in these situations. It would be nice if everybody had a designated representative for the best interest of the team isolated in a panic room somewhere but they don't. I mean we already have a pretty good idea that some real high level decisions are made in that organization because jesus. If Watson sticks to his guns he's getting traded because Houston doesn't know Rule #1. The team speaks in one voice because this is what happens when it doesn't. I'm not going to be fully convinced that Douglas isn't an intentional bad actor until Darnold is off the team, but even if he is we're still infinitely better off than the teams who don't have anybody in charge.

[32EBoozer]

25 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Watt is an interesting piece, do teams want 1 year $17.5m from him or are they willing to risk getting him as a Free Agent? There is no dead money associated with Watt so teams know he'll have to be cut. If he does get cut I think he takes less money to go to Pittsburgh to play with his brothers.

Didn’t even think about that. TJ on one side & JJ on the other with Tuitt. That’s scary good. If Watt goes Watson will want to leave even more

Edited January 31, 2021 by 32EBoozer