The "Pressures of Playing in New York" Fallacy?

[Warfish]

Who are all these pro athletes through history that were great players away from New York, but couldn't "handle the pressure of playing in New York" and had their play decline in order to justify this theory?

Of all the concerns we bandy about over possible draft picks and others, the "uh oh, can they handle the pressures of playing in New York" fallacy is the one I have the least concern about. 

Frankly, I think it's complete and total BS, actually.  I can't think of a single pro player who was great before or after being in NY, but where the NY Market/media/fanbase was the primary reason they played worse in New York, i.e. that they "couldn't handle playing in the pressures of the NY Market".

The media is every Pro Sports city is the same these days, especially in the internet era.  The fans of every Pro Sports city are generally the same.  The expectations are greater in many sports cities than they are for the NY Jets tbqh, many other cities have actual winning, Champion, legacies their players have to live up to that we don't.

As many know, I've been a real doubter/cynic over Wilson.  Let me assure you, his playing in NY is the last reason I'd worry about him, or anyone else.

So tell me, what IS the basis for this longstanding theory?  Who are all these great players that NY destroyed with it's "pressure"?

 

[ChewyandtheJets]

Pretty much any big free agent the Mets have signed over the last 20 years but other than that I can’t think of anyone except maybe Ed Whitson and Sonny Gray from the Yankees.  Guess it’s only a baseball thing. 

[BROOKLYN JET]

[RedBeardedSavage]

With camera phones and social media, everything well-known athletes do, everywhere, is on the record and under a microscope. 

I don't think it matters much whether you're in NY or not. 

That said, I do believe the NY media is faster to turn on coaches/players than many other markets. 

[Untouchable]

2 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

The pressures of playing in Kansas City

[BROOKLYN JET]

3 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

The pressures of playing in Kansas City

Did he even get to play there?

[JetPotato]

Ed Whitson was the poster child for this. 

[Jetsfan80]

A lot of MLB writers believed that Nolan Ryan never would have had the same success in New York (he started his career with the Mets) that he had elsewhere.  Some guys over the years legitimately weren't as comfortable playing in NY as they were elsewhere.

But it's probably not as big of a deal as it used to be.  After all, cameras and media attention are found everywhere.  You get scrutinized everywhere.  Twitter doesn't care a whole lot what city you play in.  But perhaps at one time, NYC represented a heightened level of pressure to perform.

[BigRy56]

Not a fallacy at all. The media eats people alive in NY.

In Carolina, Darnold’s seeing ghosts comment would have been a complete non-story. Nobody may have ever knew it even happened. In NY, it’s on the headstone of the grave that is his NFL career...

[David Harris]

I agree it's an overdone trope.  There's some more cameras and the tabloid NY Post and Daily News are caustic and they love getting their outrageous covers national attention but other than that the Jets practice and play in the suburbs of NJ.  The media sessions are a bit more scrutinizing and pointed but that's it.

 

I do think the NY Media Market pressure is a real thing for the Yankees because they play in the city and are a global marquee brand with enormous tradition, hype, reach and influence.  

[JetPotato]

I can't say for sure, but I don't know of many other newspapers outside of NY that would have happily propped up the lies, threats and manipulation of a guy like Manish Mehta. 

Media now is at it's lowest point in history. The primary job of all writers/reporters is to drive views. And sensationalism drives views far more than facts. So that's what we get.

[C Mart]

Jason Bay? Whitson? Sonny Gray? 
 

Baker Mayfield did a post game interview last year and took 1 question. Do you really think that would fly in NY. 

Sanchez and Pennington tried something similar once and got roasted for it.

[Dupe]

Yea sure. (wink)

If Sam strolls out to play game 1 more than half of you fans are going to be booing mercilessly. 

[JetPotato]

3 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I agree it's an overdone trope.  There's some more cameras and the tabloid NY Post and Daily News are caustic and they love getting their outrageous covers national attention but other than that the Jets practice and play in the suburbs of NJ.  The media sessions are a bit more scrutinizing and pointed but that's it.

 

I do think the NY Media Market pressure is a real thing for the Yankees because they play in the city and are a global marquee brand with enormous tradition, hype, reach and influence.  

+1. The Yankees are target #1. As an organization though, they have really focused on taming the media. To the point that a lot of the beat writers are now official water-carriers for Brian Cashman.

[Chrebetfan80]

9 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

With camera phones and social media, everything well known athletes do, everywhere, is on the record and under a microscope. 

I don't think it matters much whether you're in NY or not. 

That said, I do believe the NY media is faster to turn on coaches/players than many other markets. 

I think this is the crux of the issue.  The media and fanbase are so starved for success and so cynical from bad decisions over the years there isn't much wiggle room or leeway for performance. I think the "Can't handle NY" This comes from this.  Players want to impress, they know if they start hot they can be the biggest thing ever as our fan bases here tend to blow guys up that are doing well.  However, this pressing sometimes leads to slow starts or inconsistency which NY fan bases in general have a hard time accepting.  So they pile on early which can break confidence in some guys. 

 

Its not that the media is too tough, or the fans are too tough.  I think sometimes players coming here have a hard time managing expectations and in tern just being themselves and tuning out everything else.  That to me is the NY effect. 

[sourceworx]

You're right. I'm sure players and front office personnel for the Green Bay Packers routinely deal with their children being stalked by someone like this guy at their little league games.

 

[chirorob]

15 minutes ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

Pretty much any big free agent the Mets have signed over the last 20 years but other than that I can’t think of anyone except maybe Ed Whitson and Sonny Gray from the Yankees.  Guess it’s only a baseball thing. 

Used to see it a lot in baseball.

Javier Vazquez was another.

[chirorob]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

You're right. I'm sure players and front office personnel for the Green Bay Packers routinely deal with their children being stalked by someone like this guy at their little league games.

 

He looks like he stole his sister's Cabbage Patch Kid and turned into his personal sex toy.

[RedBeardedSavage]

4 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think this is the crux of the issue.  The media and fanbase are so starved for success and so cynical from bad decisions over the years there isn't much wiggle room or leeway for performance. I think the "Can't handle NY" This comes from this.  Players want to impress, they know if they start hot they can be the biggest thing ever as our fan bases here tend to blow guys up that are doing well.  However, this pressing sometimes leads to slow starts or inconsistency which NY fan bases in general have a hard time accepting.  So they pile on early which can break confidence in some guys. 

 

Its not that the media is too tough, or the fans are too tough.  I think sometimes players coming here have a hard time managing expectations and in tern just being themselves and tuning out everything else.  That to me is the NY effect. 

The cycle of building someone up and tearing them down spins faster in NY.

But I still believe things have changed since social media/camera phones - a lot of what used-to-be considered downsides of NY are now downsides everywhere: There's nowhere to hide anymore. 

[QB1]

You think the butt fumble exists if it was teddy Bridgewater in Minnesota? 

[Matt39]

Just now, QB1 said:

You think the butt fumble exists if it was teddy Bridgewater in Minnesota? 

If it were Cousins, yes.

[Biggs]

There are more distractions.  Not sure that counts as pressure.  There are actually things to do outside of football.   

[Jet Life]

Our beat writers were super soft on Gase. Maybe back when there was 8 channels and New York teams were on more. I'd say pitching in Yankee Stadium in October it makes sense for more. Not football

[southparkcpa]

20 minutes ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

Pretty much any big free agent the Mets have signed over the last 20 years but other than that I can’t think of anyone except maybe Ed Whitson and Sonny Gray from the Yankees.  Guess it’s only a baseball thing. 

I am with @Warfish and his theory BUT Whitson came to mind almost immediately.

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Jason Bay? Whitson? Sonny Gray? 
 

Baker Mayfield did a post game interview last year and took 1 question. Do you really think that would fly in NY. 

Sanchez and Pennington tried something similar once and got roasted for it.

 

With the short porch, I don't really understand how ANY right-handed pitcher could have success at Yankee Stadium these days.  

[UntouchableCrew]

Because of the overwhelming popularity of the NFL I think it's less of a thing in football.

I think when guys from small market po-dunk franchises comet to the Yankees or Mets it's a different ballgame though. The media coverage of baseball in NYC is very different than Cincinnati or Oakland.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You're right. I'm sure players and front office personnel for the Green Bay Packers routinely deal with their children being stalked by someone like this guy at their little league games.

 

Yeah I also remember Cannizzaro writing some snotnosed hit-piece on Ferguson in his rookie summer. Think Brick kept walking away from him while being peppered with gotcha-attempt questions Mangini had already refused to answer because MC was still going through buddy Herm Edwards withdrawal symptoms.

My guess is this stuff exists more for coaches/GMs getting second-guessed than for players, though. But it's a fantasy that this stuff only goes on here. I think we just think so because we get it so much worse than the Giants. Well, news flash, most years we were worse than the Giants lol. They've even won a SB since 1970, if you can imagine that. 

[Warfish]

I'll be quite honest, I think it has far more to do with New Yorkers self-image than anything in reality.

Reading the replies so far, that becomes clearer.  Be assured, the media in many cities is just as horrid and quick to turn and backstabby as that of NY.  You think the Washington Post, representing the Capital of the country and the heart of American politics, is some kind of backwater rag?  Lol.

Fans are fans.  When you play well, we love you.  When you suck, we boo you.  I've seen Nats fans boo Zimmerman, literally the face of our franchise since the day it restarted, because he wasn't as good as he was when he was a kid ffs!  NY'ers are unique for that kind of (I'd say mistreatment).

You think NY Jets Players have more pressure than Kansas City Chiefs players?  Or New England Patriot Players?  Or Dallas Cowboys players?  Lol, come on, seriously?  Even more, you think NY media takes Jets players as seriously as those players were taken at their colleges, especially the big super-football schools, where they were the sole focus of a massive football obsessed fanbase and small media?

The only thing about NY that IS special and semi-unique is the massive tax rates, amongst the worst in the Nation (right up with California).  THAT is a legit issue, as it takes money directly out of player pockets.  A few mean fans and sh*tty beat reporters?  You get them everywhere in 2020. 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I am with @Warfish and his theory BUT Whitson came to mind almost immediately.

I had to do a little ggogle-fu on him it's so long ago now, lol.

Taken from his wikipedia page from when he was a Padre (pre-Yankees):

"Whitson later told family that he was so nervous before the game that he could barely walk to the mound." for his NLCS showing.

Perhaps Mr. Whitson was ill suited to ANY spotlight, not just that of the Yankees?

And playing under "No you fight me!" Billy Martin would be a stress for just about anyone, only specific to NY because Martin was specific to NY, lol.

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Because of the overwhelming popularity of the NFL I think it's less of a thing in football.

I think when guys from small market po-dunk franchises comet to the Yankees or Mets it's a different ballgame though. The media coverage of baseball in NYC is very different than Cincinnati or Oakland.

This could be true for the smallest Baseball markets or markets where Baseball is a third-tier priority, sure, I could see that.

I was focused on the NFL, but I could see a truly tiny-market Baseball player being at least initially a bit iffy about NY Baseball media, sure.

[southparkcpa]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Because of the overwhelming popularity of the NFL I think it's less of a thing in football.

I think when guys from small market po-dunk franchises comet to the Yankees or Mets it's a different ballgame though. The media coverage of baseball in NYC is very different than Cincinnati or Oakland.

Moreover, now that I am NOT in NY any longer, I see Yankee games at other stadiums. Atlanta, Tampa, Cleveland, Baltimore, Washington for example.  The Yankees are the BIGGEST, by far, draw, in other stadiums. Even when on the road, they are the biggest game in town.

[jetswin]

36 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Ed Whitson was the poster child for this. 

he invented it lol

[Icer]

This line of thinking made sense before everyone in the world was connected at all times, there's no safe place no matter who you are or where you play anymore

[jetswin]

not that i ever thought he was any good however Neil O' Donnell was horrific as a Jet after going to a Super Bowl

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, jetswin said:

not that i ever thought he was any good however Neil O' Donnell was horrific as a Jet after going to a Super Bowl

True, but I don't think it was "the pressure of playing for the Jets in NY" that did him in.