Jets and Jameson Crowder agree to contract restructuring (merged)

[Barton]

Obviously we dont need Crowder. Not worth the $$. Just sign Breshad Perriman, right Joe D?

Crowder better be on this team. The current WR corps has done almost nothing in the NFL. 

[clayton163v]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

A #2 with a history of hit or miss effort, a complete unknown with an injury history, a #3 of no special note and a complete unknown rookie.

Could be a great group, could maybe not.

We do not need the cap space.  This is penny wise, pound foolish.  

In a year where everything should be about giving Wilson the maximum weapons, cutting Crowder is just dumb.

Is it not?  What if Mims is Mins and gets hurt and misses time, and David gets hurt.  Both reasonable possibilities.

You feeling good about Cole as your #1?  Moore the slot.  Berrios the #3?

Cause I don't.  Not at all.

A #2 with a history of hit or miss effort, a complete unknown with an injury history, a #3 of no special note and a complete unknown rookie.

Davis is a solid #1.  A savage blocker with enough size to be a credible H-back, Davis has produced 200 catches for 2800 yards as the #1 receiver over his first four years.  An average of 50 catches for 700 yards per year.  While anyone could wish for more production, nobody - except you - has criticized him for a lack of effort.  Just the opposite, the man lays serious wood.  Mims got hurt in his rookie year and produced 23 catches for 357 yards in half a season.  Over a full year, that is 46 catches for 700 yards.  I am satisfied and am looking forward to this year.  After all, he fits the prototype for the X or Y, just like Corey Davis and is not a limited slot player like Crowder.  Furthermore, Mims will be more productive when he has another prototype receiver on the field to give him a chance at single coverage.  As for Moore, we agree he is an unknown NFL quantity.  But you are not being fair.  He was the 33d pick in the entire NFL draft and was highly coveted by the NFL.  That is of "special note".  You also have to accept that Moore's 4.3 40 sure beats the heck out of Crowder's 4.56 40.   

Could be a great group, could maybe not.

My point was that we have four players to go to war with this season.  Last year, Crowder was alone (Perriman had never started an entire year).

We do not need the cap space.  This is penny wise, pound foolish.  

We have the leverage.  As we type, Crowder's agent is testing the waters to see what they could reasonably expect to get on the open market and are comparing it to what the Jets are offering.  Remember, when last season began we were without Mims AND Perriman.  We were forced to play Crowder on the outside and HE FAILED.  The whole league saw it.  That hurt his value.

In a year where everything should be about giving Wilson the maximum weapons, cutting Crowder is just dumb.

The Jets would have cut him if that was the case.  We want him to stay but at a lower salary.  Given that he has proved to be limited to the slot, it is fair.   Plus you are forgetting about Berrios.  Last season he produced 55 catches for 400 yards and played all 16 games.  Crowder got hurt after 12 games.

Is it not?  What if Mims is Mins and gets hurt and misses time, and David gets hurt.  Both reasonable possibilities.

It it true that Mims could get hurt.  It is true that Davis could get hurt.  But it is true that Crowder could get hurt.  After all, he got hurt last year after 12 games and we LOST every single one of them.  It took Mims to get us victories.  Without Crowder who was on the DL for both victories.

You feeling good about Cole as your #1?  Moore the slot.  Berrios the #3?

I feel a whole heck of a lot better about it than I do about Crowder at the Z, Chris Hogan at the X, and Berrios at the slot.  Last year we played three slot receivers and reaped the whirlwind.   Crowder got his chance to be the man last season and failed.  He is an above average slot receiver.   But there is also the added dimension of the Shanahan offense.  It does not like to use slot receivers.  It prefers a fullback or two tight ends.  That way the defense cannot guess run or pass.   With Moore, Davis and Mims the Jets can play Davis as the H-back and run it.   The defense has to fear it too.  Nobody fears Jamison Crowder is going to stone the linebacker on a running play in the slot Warfish. 

Cause I don't.  Not at all.

All in all, this reminds me of the famous conversation between Branch Rickey and Ralph Kiner.  Rickey told Kiner - after a fine statistical season - that "we finished last with you and can finish last without you".  I would like to keep Crowder but understand why Douglas does not think he is worth #10 million per.

 

[Buffalo 24 7]

37 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Moore by all accounts has looked like a super star, literally. He will be on the field a lot next to Davis and Cole.  Yes I think he starts over Crowder for the majority of the season. JD had a top 20 grade on him.  He’s going to play. Meaning Crowder is part time. 

Looking like a superstar in camp literally means nothing.

[Buffalo 24 7]

24 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

Davis is a solid #1.  A savage blocker with enough size to be a credible H-back, Davis has produced 200 catches for 2800 yards as the #1 receiver over his first four years.

 

 Davis has never been a bonafide #1. He disappointed as a rookie in Ten. After a decent 2nd year, a rookie AJ Brown became the Alpha in Tennessee's WR room.

 

[Larz]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

That's the real problem we are not use to the way a team is supposed to run. We all want it but when ever it happens it's weird and scary.

I was being polite lol

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Buffalo 24 7 said:

If he was available at the start of free agency, he would have easily made 10 mil on a open market.

Absolutely not.

[GreenFish]

When you watch GB, they play their bigger WRs when they go to 3 or 4 WR sets. Seems like in the WCO, you either play 2 TEs or play bigger WRs in the slot. This allows the run game to continue to be a threat. Coles fits that role better than Crowder. Same with Davis.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Agreed.  he has a contract.  I hate holdouts etc.. but in reverse, we can ask a player to take a cut BUT he can and has the right to leave.  

I understand the perspective and used to share it. I’d be against holdouts still if teams couldn’t send a player packing whenever it is suitable for them. A holdout is one of the few bits of leverage players have. Without that the owners would be even more ridiculously advantaged. Without guaranteed contracts, I can’t blame a player for pushing the only button he has in a negotiation.

2 hours ago, undertow said:

I'm so confused as to why people are wanting to get rid of a proven WR when we are not in need of cap space and have a rookie QB....are we worried about saving Woody Johnson 10 million bucks?

Gotta roll over that cap space! I feel like Sisyphus rolling his stone up the hill.

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Crowder was ranked 52nd in receptions last year and 54th in yards. The 50th salary for WRs is 3.5 million in the NFL. There is no way he is getting 5 million from anyone else.

Darnold was the worst QB in the NFL

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

The usual hyperbole re: our WR is already rampant at JN, as expected.

Davis, a career #2, is already an elite #1 to some of our fans.  

Cole, basically a league afterthought before we got him, is now an elite #2.

Mims, a reliable young superstar in the making.

Moore, already the best slot in the NFL after one minimcamp.

So sure, if you believe all that already, I guess we can cut Crowder, the actual best and most reliable WR on our roster right now thru today.

If you project that all our new WR's will all be great, then everything will be great.

Just remember this if we get to ~Week 10 and Davis is hurt, Mims is hurt, and Moore has 10 catches for 90 yards all season, and we're starting Cole and Berrios at #1 and #2 WR spots.   When half the board is saying "we can't really evaluate Wilson's poor numbers because of his weak WR corps".

There is no earthly reason to let Crowder go, most certainly not over a few million in cap space.  He is Wilson Insurance.  

The Jets haven't spent to the cap in years, any claim that the saving we get from Crowder is "needed" to "get a star" is laughable.

Maybe people think woody will lower the price of hot dogs if he saves crowder’s salary?

[Bronx]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo 24 7 said:

 Davis has never been a bonafide #1. He disappointed as a rookie in Ten. After a decent 2nd year, a rookie AJ Brown became the Alpha in Tennessee's WR room.

 

Moore is the Alpha, count on it. 

[slats]

The WR market kinda collapsed this year. There were a couple big contracts (Davis being one of them), but then something of a drought. The problem for veteran receivers is that colleges are producing better, more polished WRs than ever before with all these wide open offenses. Heading into free agency, a lot of people here wanted the Jets to sign JuJu Smith-Schuster as an upgrade to Crowder - he wound up signing for one year, $8M. In today’s market, Crowder is overpaid. No one’s trading for him at his current number, and no one is giving him anything close to it in June. That’s his reality.  
 
I’m a little surprised that JD opted to do this now rather than wait until the end of camp. To the best of my knowledge, Crowder has no guarantees until he’s on the opening day roster. Meaning that if he got hurt in camp, he could be waived with an injury settlement. JD could’ve waited, and made sure the Jets had no injuries or maybe took advantage of another team’s injury problem at the spot. It’s something of a favor to Crowder to make the ask before mandatory OTAs. 
 
I continue to think Crowder will take the pay cut. If he doesn’t, I think Joe D will not hesitate to cut him. He’s got Cole, Berrios, and Moore to fill the slot. Jets have all the leverage in this one. 

[Dunnie]

Not a good look to offer your mpst productive receiver a pay cut ... just looks and smells bad.

[jgb]

53 minutes ago, Barton said:

Obviously we dont need Crowder. Not worth the $$. Just sign Breshad Perriman, right Joe D?

Crowder better be on this team. The current WR corps has done almost nothing in the NFL. 

I think some are afraid advocating for Crowder to stay on the team might cost them Real Fan™ Points because it indicates something less than wild optimism for Moore, Davis, Cole.

[Larz]

6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Not a good look to offer your mpst productive receiver a pay cut ... just looks and smells bad.

Why ?  His contract isn’t guaranteed. They could wait until the last second, when the cap money is gone and the musical chairs have stopped and cut him. 
 

it’s a big boy business 

Dont forget that Gase brought JD in , JD gutted the roster and fired Gase for losing and was still able to recruit some of the top coaching candidates. 
 

Optics are way overrated 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 hours ago, undertow said:

I'm so confused as to why people are wanting to get rid of a proven WR when we are not in need of cap space and have a rookie QB....are we worried about saving Woody Johnson 10 million bucks?

A team is always in need of cap space.  Period. If Crowder is worth $5 million on the open market, why pay him $10 million?  And why do some fans always take the player's side when it is in the team's and the fan's interest for the Jets to pay Crowder and every other player on the team as little as possible ?  If Crowder is only a little better than Moore, Moore plays. Then what is the need for Crowder?  Crowder became expendable when Moore was drafted. He's a free agent after this season and has no guaranteed money.  If cutting Crowder's pay means the Jets sign Moses, cut his pay or cut him yesterday.  I'd rather have a starting RT or a swing back up OT than an average slot receiver who just became redundant.  And that $5 million in cap savings rolls to next season and could turn into something more useful and long term than one more year of a 4th or 5th WR.  

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Not a good look to offer your mpst productive receiver a pay cut ... just looks and smells bad.

Team can try to force him to take less and he can hold out. Neither side is morally right or wrong. It’s business on both sides. Both are playing by the rules of the game.

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

They have plenty of cap space, no pressing financial problems,  plenty of cash for any additional FAs they might want to grab, and plenty of room on next years projected cap.

 

Mims is so far underwhelming, Moore is promising but an unknown, and Cole is getting a lot of hype for a former UDFA.

 

Crowder is in his last year of a deal, has been nothing but a solid pro on a disaster of a team, produced despite being in the worst Offense in tye league, and is a dependable and know commodity. 

 

This just makes the Jets look cheap. No reason for ******* the guy.  I'd tell JD to go **** himself, and either pay me what my contract says, or cut me now. 

Thank you!!

In a year from now JD will be telling us once again how he made a mistake!

Can the Jets just once in awhile do right by the guys who have been good and loyal players and men!

Good Grief!

[PepPep]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

The usual hyperbole re: our WR is already rampant at JN, as expected.

Davis, a career #2, is already an elite #1 to some of our fans.  

Cole, basically a league afterthought before we got him, is now an elite #2.

Mims, a reliable young superstar in the making.

Moore, already the best slot in the NFL after one minimcamp.

So sure, if you believe all that already, I guess we can cut Crowder, the actual best and most reliable WR on our roster right now thru today.

If you project that all our new WR's will all be great, then everything will be great.

Just remember this if we get to ~Week 10 and Davis is hurt, Mims is hurt, and Moore has 10 catches for 90 yards all season, and we're starting Cole and Berrios at #1 and #2 WR spots.   When half the board is saying "we can't really evaluate Wilson's poor numbers because of his weak WR corps".

There is no earthly reason to let Crowder go, most certainly not over a few million in cap space.  He is Wilson Insurance.  

The Jets haven't spent to the cap in years, any claim that the saving we get from Crowder is "needed" to "get a star" is laughable.

I mean I guess thats one way to look at it. 

But if you just look at the numbers, you just named 4 WRs not named Crowder who are definitely not getting cut or traded and are slotted to start. That leaves 2 spots available on the roster at WR? You keep Crowder that leaves one. So now you gotta think to yourself, do I keep Crowder at 10mil for just this year because he's a solid, reliable player and could be critical for Wilson. Or do I cut him, save the that cap space, open up a roster spot for a Berrios, or V.Smith or J.Smith- someone who might hang around at a cheap price and contribute as a depth/special teams player, and now put myself in position to sign Moses and trade for Nick Foles. Its a close call. Its why JD is asking for Crowder to take a pay cut so he doesn't have to make that choice.

I'm not a cap guru but the Jets have about 30mil in cap space and they haven't signed all of their rookies, including Wilson. Wilson's deal alone will count for about 6-7mil against the cap. Nick Foles is making around 4mil. Lets say that leaves maybe 15mil for the Jets to sign Moses once the rookies are all signed. Thats plenty but I'd imagine Moses is not signing for anything less than 8-10mil. Right? He's a top NFL tackle without a history of injury. So The Jets are left with 5-7 mil cap space. I'm not sure thats the kind of position JD wants to be in. 

And look, I get it, Moore is a rookie and hasn't proven anything. But the fact is that the Jets used a premium draft pick on him and he was considered the best slot receiver in the draft. And he is flashing right now in camp. I can only judge him based on what I've seen so far and from what little I've seen he looks legit. Meanwhile Crowder plays that same position and is MIA with contract negotiations. Its also not helping him at all that Berrios is working his butt off as he always does. 

[Charlie Brown]

15 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Not a good look to offer your mpst productive receiver a pay cut ... just looks and smells bad.

I agree with you and far too many believe that business is somehow different than human decency and its not!

[Maynard13]

10 hours ago, undertow said:

People have been beating this Crowder is gone narrative for about 6 months....he wasn't going anywhere 6 months ago and he ain't going anywhere now just lots of people overthinking things.

I think 6 months ago they didn’t have Davis, Cole or Moore.  Yea I’m pretty sure of that. 

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

A team is always in need of cap space.  Period. If Crowder is worth $5 million on the open market, why pay him $10 million?  And why do some fans always take the player's side when it is in the team's and the fan's interest for the Jets to pay Crowder and every other player on the team as little as possible ?  If Crowder is only a little better than Moore, Moore plays. Then what is the need for Crowder?  Crowder became expendable when Moore was drafted. He's a free agent after this season and has no guaranteed money.  If cutting Crowder's pay means the Jets sign Moses, cut his pay or cut him yesterday.  I'd rather have a starting RT or a swing back up OT than an average slot receiver who just became redundant.  And that $5 million in cap savings rolls to next season and could turn into something more useful and long term than one more year of a 4th or 5th WR.  

Goes both ways. Could easily be asked why some people always take the team side — what happened to “but he has a contract!” then?

I prefer to not think about it as a moral issue. Both sides have the right to act in their perceived best interest.

 

[freestater]

1 hour ago, Buffalo 24 7 said:

Crowder isn't even 28 yet.

When I start to give a **** about a Bills fan's $.02 about any given subject, I'll be sure to let you know. 

[PepPep]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

The Jets currently have 27 million in cap space. Are they going to be paying Moses in the realm of 30 million? Please elaborate on the corner/OT they're signing that they need 2-3 million more cap space this season?

Crowder's contact is not preventing them from signing anybody.

I'm not sure why its so confusing. If the Jets intend to go after Moses (and it sounds like they are), they will need to pay him close to 10mil a year. He is a reliable, top NFL OT. It would actually be a game-changer, IMO, because if he can fit in this system he would be an upgrade over Fant and give the Jets much needed depth in case Becton got hurt. He's also improve the run game. 

Then you have to sign the rest of your rookies. That includes Z.Wilson. His contract will count around 6-7 mil against the cap. And if the Jets want to go after a vet QB so this team is not a complete train-wreck if Zach gets banged up (lets say they trade for Foles (4 mil against the cap). Suddenly you go from 27mil in cap space to to around 6? Its not very much wiggle room. 

If JD is, indeed looking to make these moves (or something like this), I can completely understand why he wants Crowder to take a pay cut, or is willing to cut him outright. Especially if he is infatuated with Moore, who he used a premium pick on and looks like a legit stud at the slot position.  

[mfmartin]

They are easily in the bottom 4th of the league.
Lets say you put the Jets ahead of the Eagles, Colts, Lions, Patriots, Texans, Raiders and Jaguars. That would only make them 25th at best.  
 

Top 20


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[slats]

20 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I agree with you and far too many believe that business is somehow different than human decency and its not!

The country would be a much better place if this was true, but it’s not. Human decency and business rarely cross paths. 

[PepPep]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo 24 7 said:

Looking like a superstar in camp literally means nothing.

Lol it is where rookies earn their keep and carve out their roles. Its where guys on the bubble start the fight to make the team or begin their road to getting cut. Its where players can emerge as starters or be left back to the bench. Heck yeah it means something. You show up to camp in the best shape of your life and play light out, impress the coaching with how you're soaking everything up and gelling with your teammates- that might vault you from the bench to a starting role. It will give you more opportunities in pre-season and so on. Maybe it doesn't mean much for a proven vet but for a rookie like Moore it def. means something.  

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

The country would be a much better place if this was true, but it’s not. Human decency and business rarely cross paths. 

And sadly human decency is rarely rewarded in business. The biggest villain in NFL history also owns the most rings. Not a coincidence.

[GREENBEAN]

like the article says they can keep crowder without any salary cap issues.  but at the same time doesn't the surplus cap carry over to the next season?  if so, that few million they'd save by cutting crowder may be what it takes to land a top player or help retain some of their own.we'll see what happens.  crowder has been a pretty reliable receiver and knows how to ad lib.  as for the coaches, dungy seems to be the coach i think of most when talking about a guy who didn't yell.  caldwell is another.  i doubt if the bellichicken yells and i also doubt parcells yelled all that much.  it's just too hard to communicate very well if ones ears are ringing.

Agree with much of this but parcels was always yelling. I made it to a few practices at Hofstra during his years and his voice could be heard all the time.
I’m not sure if crowders money can be increased by the carry over or not. We get his $10 mil back next year anyway after the contract expires. If we trim it $5 mil that will carry over but then we only get $5 mil back from his contract. Still $10 mil. That’s how it looks to me anyway. I might be wrong.
If they want the money back it just seems like they might want to spend it. ?


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[GREENBEAN]

Why would Crowder cut his salary in half for 2 years, when he would easily make more money in free agency in 2021. It's not like he is old.
Lets say Crowder gets cut for not taking a pay cut. He would still get 5mil this year from a team like the Pats, Lions, Falcons or Colts. In the following off-season, he could easily get a 3 year, 30 Mil contract if he continues his current level of play.

He’s unlikely to get a $10 mil contract though. That’s the foundation for the request. I saw a stat that said the average salary for a slot is just about $6-7 mil. I don’t know where I saw it or id post it for ya. But with Crowder’s Injury history it’s gonna be tough for him to achieve this contract number again.
That’s why he was not traded most likely. His contract is prohibitive for teams that might’ve been interested.


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[Joe Willie White Shoes]

56 minutes ago, jgb said:

Goes both ways. Could easily be asked why some people always take the team side — what happened to “but he has a contract!” then?

I prefer to not think about it as a moral issue. Both sides have the right to act in their perceived best interest.

 

Well,what is best for the team is usually best for the fans.  Crowder getting paid more money is only good for Crowder, not necessarily for the team. It's a zero sum game with a salary cap.  I want the Jets to win.  I could care less if Crowder gets an extra $5 million over market and how he uses that money.It's not going to positively impact my life as a Jets fan and it may cost us another player.  Crowder's contract is not guaranteed, so yes he has a contract, but the Jets are not legally obligated to pay him that money until the first game of the season. So, technically, the contract is worthless and Crowder knew that when he signed it.  Essentially the Jets and Crowder are determining what his contract should be for 2021 and if they can't agree, Crowder will be cut and free to negotiate a new deal with another team.  Both are acting in their self interest.  As a fan, my interests are served if the Jets sign Crowder to a contract that matches his market value and maximizes cap space. I am not served if Crowder is paid over market and is able to use that money to buy a bigger house.  

 

[Jet_Engine1]

17 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Well,what is best for the team is usually best for the fans.  Crowder getting paid more money is only good for Crowder, not necessarily for the team. It's a zero sum game with a salary cap.  I want the Jets to win.  I could care less if Crowder gets an extra $5 million over market and how he uses that money.It's not going to positively impact my life as a Jets fan and it may cost us another player.  Crowder's contract is not guaranteed, so yes he has a contract, but the Jets are not legally obligated to pay him that money until the first game of the season. So, technically, the contract is worthless and Crowder knew that when he signed it.  Essentially the Jets and Crowder are determining what his contract should be for 2021 and if they can't agree, Crowder will be cut and free to negotiate a new deal with another team.  Both are acting in their self interest.  As a fan, my interests are served if the Jets sign Crowder to a contract that matches his market value and maximizes cap space. I am not served if Crowder is paid over market and is able to use that money to buy a bigger house.  

 

The Jets have a sh*t ton of cap space, and Crowder is in the final year of his deal. All this "it benefits the Jets and the fans" stuff is stupid. The Jets are haggling over $5 Million with what, $25m in current cap space? LOL That's just being cheap. 

 

Mims is always hurt so far.

Davis was the third or 4th option on his last team.

Keelan Cole was an UDFA in the wasteland of Jax, and hasn't even been as good as Robby.

 

Moore has never gone against a real NFL Corner yet (GTFO with Bless Austin, Jav Guidry, and Bryce Hall)

 

Braxton Berrios is always a TC hero...but he sucks. 

 

Vyncynt Smyth is apparently allergic to Footballs. 

Chris Herndon is Bipolar or something. 

 

But yeah, let's play contract games with a solid player out of nowhere for absolutely zero reason or gain. 

Yeah. The Jets have too many decent players, and that $5 Million will he the difference...

 

Just clumsy and stupid.

 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, clayton163v said:

Davis is a solid #1.

He's never been a #1 for even a single play of his short career so far.  He was always the #2 in Tenn, and on a run-first, run-always team at that.

We're HOPING he can be a #1.  Same as we're HOPING Mims isn't a fragile bust-to-be.  And HOPING that Moore is....well, that Moore is Crowder, frankly.  And that Cole isn't just another UDFA Jag.

None of it is real...yet.

Like I said, hyperbole, thy name is Jets Fan.  We got a bunch of hopeful ??'s that people here have already convinced themselves are a group of 4x All-Pro's, lol.  Some things never change.

I'm optimistic about this group, it's got alot of potential.  But it's better, and better for WILSON, with Crowder.

But I'm not writing Moore's HOF speech based on one "superstar" minicamp, as one poster above put it.

Most of all, we can afford Crowder AND any of the FA's we want, we have space to burn.  Want Sherman, that O-lineman from DC and Nick "Mentor" Mullens?  You can have them all without cutting Crowder.

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

The Jets currently have 27 million in cap space. Are they going to be paying Moses in the realm of 30 million? Please elaborate on the corner/OT they're signing that they need 2-3 million more cap space this season?

Crowder's contact is not preventing them from signing anybody.

Not paying rookies?

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He's never been a #1 for even a single play of his short career so far.  He was always the #2 in Tenn, and on a run-first, run-always team at that.

That theyre a run first team makes your point how?  

He put up basically the same numbers as the only other WR to put up similar yardage.  But hes an always #2.   Both play in a run first offense.  

 

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, clayton163v said:

A #2 with a history of hit or miss effort, a complete unknown with an injury history, a #3 of no special note and a complete unknown rookie.

Davis is a solid #1.  A savage blocker with enough size to be a credible H-back, Davis has produced 200 catches for 2800 yards as the #1 receiver over his first four years.  An average of 50 catches for 700 yards per year.  While anyone could wish for more production, nobody - except you - has criticized him for a lack of effort.  Just the opposite, the man lays serious wood.  Mims got hurt in his rookie year and produced 23 catches for 357 yards in half a season.  Over a full year, that is 46 catches for 700 yards.  I am satisfied and am looking forward to this year.  After all, he fits the prototype for the X or Y, just like Corey Davis and is not a limited slot player like Crowder.  Furthermore, Mims will be more productive when he has another prototype receiver on the field to give him a chance at single coverage.  As for Moore, we agree he is an unknown NFL quantity.  But you are not being fair.  He was the 33d pick in the entire NFL draft and was highly coveted by the NFL.  That is of "special note".  You also have to accept that Moore's 4.3 40 sure beats the heck out of Crowder's 4.56 40.   

Could be a great group, could maybe not.

My point was that we have four players to go to war with this season.  Last year, Crowder was alone (Perriman had never started an entire year).

We do not need the cap space.  This is penny wise, pound foolish.  

We have the leverage.  As we type, Crowder's agent is testing the waters to see what they could reasonably expect to get on the open market and are comparing it to what the Jets are offering.  Remember, when last season began we were without Mims AND Perriman.  We were forced to play Crowder on the outside and HE FAILED.  The whole league saw it.  That hurt his value.

In a year where everything should be about giving Wilson the maximum weapons, cutting Crowder is just dumb.

The Jets would have cut him if that was the case.  We want him to stay but at a lower salary.  Given that he has proved to be limited to the slot, it is fair.   Plus you are forgetting about Berrios.  Last season he produced 55 catches for 400 yards and played all 16 games.  Crowder got hurt after 12 games.

Is it not?  What if Mims is Mins and gets hurt and misses time, and David gets hurt.  Both reasonable possibilities.

It it true that Mims could get hurt.  It is true that Davis could get hurt.  But it is true that Crowder could get hurt.  After all, he got hurt last year after 12 games and we LOST every single one of them.  It took Mims to get us victories.  Without Crowder who was on the DL for both victories.

You feeling good about Cole as your #1?  Moore the slot.  Berrios the #3?

I feel a whole heck of a lot better about it than I do about Crowder at the Z, Chris Hogan at the X, and Berrios at the slot.  Last year we played three slot receivers and reaped the whirlwind.   Crowder got his chance to be the man last season and failed.  He is an above average slot receiver.   But there is also the added dimension of the Shanahan offense.  It does not like to use slot receivers.  It prefers a fullback or two tight ends.  That way the defense cannot guess run or pass.   With Moore, Davis and Mims the Jets can play Davis as the H-back and run it.   The defense has to fear it too.  Nobody fears Jamison Crowder is going to stone the linebacker on a running play in the slot Warfish. 

Cause I don't.  Not at all.

All in all, this reminds me of the famous conversation between Branch Rickey and Ralph Kiner.  Rickey told Kiner - after a fine statistical season - that "we finished last with you and can finish last without you".  I would like to keep Crowder but understand why Douglas does not think he is worth #10 million per.

 

Crowder played just 25% of his snaps on the outside last season and the 3 games in which he played the most snaps on the outside came in weeks 15, 16 and 17.  

Weeks 1-4 saw him total just under 400 yards.  Is that failing?  From weeks 5-14 he played fewer than 10 snaps per game outside.  Where are these games early on in the season when he was so bad on the outside?

Oh, and from weeks 1-17 his head coach was Adam Gase who is out of the league along with his offensive coordinator.

 

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The Jets have a sh*t ton of cap space, and Crowder is in the final year of his deal. All this "it benefits the Jets and the fans" stuff is stupid. The Jets are haggling over $5 Million with what, $25m in current cap space? LOL That's just being cheap. 

 

Mims is always hurt so far.

Davis was the third or 4th option on his last team.

Keelan Cole was an UDFA in the wasteland of Jax, and hasn't even been as good as Robby.

 

Moore has never gone against a real NFL Corner yet (GTFO with Bless Austin, Jav Guidry, and Bryce Hall)

 

Braxton Berrios is always a TC hero...but he sucks. 

 

Vyncynt Smyth is apparently allergic to Footballs. 

Chris Herndon is Bipolar or something. 

 

But yeah, let's play contract games with a solid player out of nowhere for absolutely zero reason or gain. 

Yeah. The Jets have too many decent players, and that $5 Million will he the difference...

 

Just clumsy and stupid.

 

It's not cheap, It's smart.  Why pay more for an asset than the asset is worth, especially when every dollar a team spends can't be used to pay for/acquire other players. If I have $180,000 a year to spend on household goods and I am efficient and frugal and have everything but a car for $150,000, should I pay $20,000 for a car worth $10,000 just because I have the money?  And if I can take the money I don't spend and use it next year, should I pay twice as much for my car because I "have the money?"  No.  That is just wasteful and bad money management.  

 

And I can play the same game as you.

First, your facts are wrong on Davis. He was either the #1 or #2 option his entire career.   

Second, Davis has been healthy and he will start at one outside spot.  Mims will start on the other side if healthy and he should be healthy. Cole is the back up to both.  Crowder is and always has been a slot receiver and is not a wide out.

If Moore is the real deal, he plays and starts in the slot.  

So Crowder likely is the back up slot receiver. Why pay top WR $ to a back up slot receiver?  It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't care what he did last year for a 2-14 team.  

Crowder is a free agent. He is not in the Jets long term plans.  Paying him $10 million is a complete waste of money. 

The Jets have too many WRs and Crowder is now superfluous.  If he wants to stay with the team as a back up and as injury insurance, he should accept the pay cut.  If not, bye bye.