Jets and Jameson Crowder agree to contract restructuring (merged)

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, slats said:

I wouldn’t lump (Berrios) in with the UDFA hopefuls. He’s capable of handling the slot job all by himself, and that’s before you throw Moore and Cole into the mix. 

Agree to disagree, IMO Berrios is exactly the type of fringe NFL talent loser teams always seem to roster and a certain portion of the fanbase get all hyped up over.  He sucks, and if he's playing any meaningful # of plays for us, we likely suck. 

Just like last year.  Cite any numbers you like, watching him and watching Crowder, there is no quality equivalence there.  The difference should have been obvious to anyone with eyes.  Also  worth noting, Crowder was for much of the year our "#1" in terms of WR quality, the only Jets WR that was a real threat and hence worth covering. Berrios was an afterthought to most DC's.

1 minute ago, slats said:

I like Crowder and feel for the guy, but the fact is that he’s overpaid and the team has options already in house. He’s just in a crappy situation. I think the two sides come to terms once the emotion is removed. 

Crowder isn't taking a 50% pay cut.  The writing appears to be on the wall, JD has a stiffy for "superstar" Moore, and so Crowder was given an offer he couldn't accept.  He's as good as gone, barring an injury between now and then to Moore/Cole/Berrios.

As long as your fav Mims finally steps up, plays regularly, and does something notable, it could blunt any loss cutting Crowder could cause.  Lets hope he's not sitting half the season again.

[slats]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Crowder isn't taking a 50% pay cut.  The writing appears to be on the wall, JD has a stiffy for "superstar" Moore, and so Crowder was given an offer he couldn't accept.  He's as good as gone, barring an injury between now and then to Moore/Cole/Berrios.

They might be able to find some middle ground, or they may not. But if Crowder doesn’t take the $5M from the Jets this year, who else is giving him $5M in June? You and he may not want to admit it, but Cole and Berrios put up similar production for a lot less money last year. That’s the market he’s in as strictly a slot on a team that would rather run 12 or 21 personnel. 
 
He’s in a bad situation, and has to be coming to that realization. Unless his agent can pull a surprise contract out of a hat. 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

The rookie HC, OC, and QB year probably isn’t it, regardless. This is an evaluation year on the youngest team in the NFL, a team determined to build thru the draft. Getting the youngsters on the field, getting their baptisms by fire, is going to be a priority. 

I'll start believing the "we will need that money in a year" argument when we actually spend that money the next year as opposed to just saving money for the Owner.

Just be aware, that "baptism by fire" could hurt Wilson.  He better be up to that challenge.

Fundamentally, I'm not against a youth movement, or starting the kids.  They just better be the right kids, and kids ready to play and produce and support our key asset, Wilson.  This entire WR group sans Crowder is a giant ? as of today.  Davis has never carried a team as a #1.  Mims is soft, or so it seems so far.  Cole is a #3.  Moore had a great minicamp but hasn't played a single NFL snap yet.    

Again, if it all works out, great.  If not, Wilson could be hurt by this, and that, for cap money we don't need to save, is IMO unacceptable penny pinching that only helps the Owners bottom line.

[slats]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'll start believing the "we will need that money in a year" argument when we actually spend that money the next year as opposed to just saving money for the Owner.

Just be aware, that "baptism by fire" could hurt Wilson.  He better be up to that challenge.

Fundamentally, I'm not against a youth movement, or starting the kids.  They just better be the right kids, and kids ready to play and produce and support our key asset, Wilson.  This entire WR group sans Crowder is a giant ? as of today.  Davis has never carried a team as a #1.  Mims is soft, or so it seems so far.  Cole is a #3.  Moore had a great minicamp but hasn't played a single NFL snap yet.    

Again, if it all works out, great.  If not, Wilson could be hurt by this, and that, for cap money we don't need to save, is IMO unacceptable penny pinching that only helps the Owners bottom line.

I continue to think Crowder will be back on a reduced contract but, if he’s not, I don’t see him as the make or break player that could’ve saved the WR corps. Looks like the Jets don’t think so, either. Crowder’s status has nothing to do with what Davis or Mims do on the outside as he’s not capable of filling that role himself. 
 
Also don’t think the owner’s bottom line is the issue here at all, but that JD is doing his job here without their influence. It’s his job to manage the salary cap and roster, and part of that is not overpaying players he doesn’t have to overpay. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

I continue to think Crowder will be back on a reduced contract but, if he’s not, I don’t see him as the make or break player that could’ve saved the WR corps. Looks like the Jets don’t think so, either. Crowder’s status has nothing to do with what Davis or Mims do on the outside as he’s not capable of filling that role himself. 
 
Also don’t think the owner’s bottom line is the issue here at all, but that JD is doing his job here without their influence. It’s his job to manage the salary cap and roster, and part of that is not overpaying players he doesn’t have to overpay. 

I guess we'll see. 

Nice to see if it doesn't work out, we can lay the responsibility directly and squarely on JD.  Glad we agree on that.

[nycdan]

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree, IMO Berrios is exactly the type of fringe NFL talent loser teams always seem to roster and a certain portion of the fanbase get all hyped up over.  He sucks, and if he's playing any meaningful # of plays for us, we likely suck. 

 

Same thing was said about Welker, Edelman, Chrebet, and a number of other very productive WRs who nobody thought was worth a uniform and helmet.  Not saying Berrios will be that but given that he is a very capable return man as well, I have no issue with him being a depth WR who can get a few targets every game.

[sec101row23]

Those of you lamenting about Crowder is comical.  Back when this coaching staff was put in place some of us explained why a receiver like Crowder would not be nearly as valuable as some are making him to be.  Now after feee agency and the draft it becomes even clearer that his value is diminished.   The fact that JD wants a 50% pay cut for Crowder should also show that he was over valued here.   The role of a slot only receiver is small in this “system”, position versatility is way more valuable.  This is proven out by the free agent signings of Davis and Cole and the drafting of Moore.   
 

If you have an opportunity to save money you do it, especially if it’s on a player that you don’t think will have a significant role in your offense.  
 

 

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Same thing was said about Welker, Edelman, Chrebet, and a number of other very productive WRs who nobody thought was worth a uniform and helmet.  Not saying Berrios will be that but given that he is a very capable return man as well, I have no issue with him being a depth WR who can get a few targets every game.

If you're "not saying Berrios will be that", then why are you comparing him to the likes of Chrebet, Welker and Edelman?  

Oh, right, because Jets Fans are obsessed with UDFA fringe-talent WR's. 

Especially if they fit a "certain mold", i.e. Chrebet, Woodhead, Welker, Edelman.....hmm, wonder what these guys all have in common, beyond a lack of height.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

If you're "not saying Berrios will be that", then why are you comparing him to the likes of Chrebet, Welker and Edelman?  

Oh, right, because Jets Fans are obsessed with UDFA fringe-talent WR's. 

Especially if they fit a "certain mold", i.e. Chrebet, Woodhead, Welker, Edelman.....hmm, wonder what these guys all have in common, beyond a lack of height.

I don't count Woodhead.  What the rest have in common besides being short, is they were productive.  If you're waving the race card, you should walk that back because this thread is not going there.  Period.  If you take umbrage with that, feel free to PM Max directly.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I don't count Woodhead.  What the rest have in common besides being short, is they were productive.  If you're waving the race card, you should walk that back because this thread is not going there.  Period.  If you take umbrage with that, feel free to PM Max directly.

No need to walk it back, it's bloody obvious that a portion of the Jets Fanbase LOVES short, slow, fringe talent white WR's who in some way "represent them" for the largely white fanbase of the NY Jets.  It's been a thing for this fanbase for as long as I can remember, nothing gets the attention of our Fans more than a guy who fits this mold.  

It's the "Invincible" and "Rudy" thing, the "a normal white guy from the block could be an NFL star despite being too short, too slow, and not having the same physical skills" as a legit NFL WR.  I mean for Christ's sake, they literally made two successful movies about exactly this concept, and how that psychologically connected to people.  People like to see people like them doing what they themselves dream about doing but can't do. 

It's akin to all the shows on TV where people dream that yes, they too could be the new millionaire buying houses.  It's fantasy projection.  There is nothing politics or racism about it (the two banned topics here), it's basic human psychology. 

The same effect is in play for other groups too, look at the film "42", and the effect seeing a black man finally playing major league baseball had on black fans at the time, finally seeing "someone like them" on the field.  Again, this is universal, not specific to a single race.  Why do you think we always hear the "first ever" when some barrier gets broken in this or that?  

So ban me if you like, if being accurate and truthful about a particular psychological habit of human beings is now banworthy, up to you really.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

All true, and Crowder has been a solid, productive player for us.  But a few mitigating thoughts:

Crowder signed a 3-year, $28.5MM contract in 2019.  Over the first two years, he has been paid about $18M of that money.  Most NFL players know the last year of a multi-year deal is far from guaranteed.  So even if the Jets and Crowder part ways, he has been paid very fairly for his contributions here.  There should be no hard feelings either way.  Certainly nobody should be feeling like Crowder is getting shafted.  This is normal across the league, and this is why players get signing bonuses up front. 

No player should 'expect' to get paid out on the last year of his contract unless it conforms to the current league average pay scale.  At this time, perhaps due in part to COVID impact, Crowders deal is above league average for his performance.

This is spot on, and the current salary cap in the NFL is far below projections that were made 2-3 years ago pre-COVID due to the revenue drop last year.  It's what made this FA period very interesting and probably impacted the deals that guys like JuJu got as an example.  Crowder's deal does look above average right now due to this.

 

Quote

This isn't a knock on his ability or production, but just a recognition of reality.  In reality, he will probably counter with something like $8M and maybe they will settle around $7M.  Everybody can walk away with some win.  But if they do release him, it's not about being cheap or being disloyal, it's about maximizing resources and while we could debate the finer points, it's still really just about football.

 

No doubt.  There's a difference between being cheap and being economical.  IMO (and many of the anti-ownership, anti-Johnson fans probably disagree with me on this) the Jets haven't really been cheap over the years, they've just completely mismanaged their money.  Signing Trumaine Johnson to a $72M deal wasn't cheap, it was dumb.  Signing Bell for $42M wasn't cheap, it was dumb, etc.  JD is turning out to be a very astute manager of the Salary Cap and looks to be building the right way.  With that said, he got burned last year when he tried to improve both the salary and talent complexion of the WR group too quickly.  Bringing in Perriman, Chris Hogan, etc. and losing Robby Anderson just didn't cut it.  He seems to have learned his lesson this year.  The additions of Davis, Cole and Elijah Moore on top of drafting Mims last year all show that JD recognizes he needs to do better at WR for a young QB.  The Cap implications are important but IMO they're not more important than supporting Zach Wilson, particularly in Year 1.  If Crowder doesn't accept a pay cut and challenges the Jets to release him, how much Cap pain would there be for the Jets in keeping him for 2021 at $10M?  I'd see it as a slightly expensive but worthwhile insurance policy.

 

EDIT:  One more thought.  I think JD is in this renegotiation phase with Crowder right now (and Alex Lewis two weeks ago) because he could be trying to line up an extension for Marcus Maye.  If we hear that Crowder's salary gets reduced to an agreeable amount of $7-8M then I wouldn't be totally shocked if an extension of Maye is announced in the next few weeks.

[Rhg1084]

 

 

[Rhg1084]

Just now, Rhg1084 said:

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1404461757284950026?s=21
 

 

He’s back 

[nyjunc]

I'm surprised but happy.  This WR corps is as deep as I can ever remember.

[More Cowbell]

Never thought this was in doubt.

[Rhg1084]

Jets with a nice receiving corps now with 

Davis

Crowder

Cole

Mims 

Moore

Berrios/Vyncent Smith 

[jetstream23]

REALLY glad they kept him.  Seems like a win-win for both sides.

Davis, Cole, Mims, Crowder, E. Moore will be a Fab Five for the Jets this year.  I really like the setup and mix of talent, youth, experience of that group.

 

Hey Crowder, get to practice!

 

[Rhg1084]

Joe Douglas is an unbelievable GM btw. The guy is very methodical 

[Columbia Jet Fan]

The potential hidden benefit of this is if Cole and Berrios and Moore ball out Crowder should actually have legit trade value at the deadline. If his new contract is ~$6mm than a contender could trade for him and only have to pay ~$3mm for him for the rest of the season. JD can probably get a mid rounder and half a season of production for a guy that may have been cut. Good move. 

[SAR I]

This is GREAT news. 

So happy.  

SAR I

[Jethead]

Nice, now go get Moses.

 

[Rhg1084]

 

[slats]

As I was saying all along... 

[HawkeyeJet]

We got some weaponz, some Dawgs if you will.

[Lith]

This is good news.  We have a nice deep WR room with a mix of youth and experience.  Young guys for our rookie QB to grow with and experienced vets for the rookie to rely on this year.

If we feel the need to trade Crowder, a restructured contract would make him more attractive -- but I would prefer if we waited until the deadline to seriously consider offers so we know how the young guys look.  I do not want to move him before the season. 

Depth, what a concept.

[Lith]

2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

Gotta love Vacchiano.  "The emergence of rookie WR Elijah Moore."  I would think a rookie needs to play in at least one game before his "emergence".  I am as excited as anyone that Moore looks good in OTAs.  But nobody has had the chance to "emerge" yet.

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Nice, now go get Moses.

JC and Moses in one day?

That would be biblical.

SAR I

[jetstream23]

12 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Joe Douglas is an unbelievable GM btw. The guy is very methodical 

He's had missteps but I'll say this, he's turning those missteps into opportunities to show he's learned from them.  And, that is huge for a GM!  The WR group was mismanaged last year.  Douglas tried to accelerate the transformation of that group both from a cost and talent perspective, relying on Tampa's WR3 (Breshad Perriman) to be the Jets WR1, counting on a 2nd round rookie (Mims) to immediately become the WR2, letting the one WR that his QB had comfort with (Robby Anderson) walk away, etc.  He had a panic signing of Chris Hogan during training camp to be WR1/2 for several weeks early in the year.  I was down on Douglas for all of that because of the importance to a still-young QB in Darnold.  BUT.... that's all over.  Douglas used valuable resources (both FA $$ and draft picks) to add Corey Davis, Keelan Cole and Elijah Moore.... AND he kept Crowder at a lower cost.  That's how you correct a mistake.

[jetstream23]

Just now, SAR I said:

JC and Moses in one day?

That would be biblical.

SAR I

[sec101row23]

JD had all the leverage and he used it, good for him.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

Everyone was freaking out that we would lose Crowder and teams would be swarming to pick him up and give him a 3/30 million dollar deal. 
Turns out, our GM knows the market better than Joe from Piscataway.  

[BigRy56]

Really impressive job by JD

[THE BARON]

20 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

REALLY glad they kept him.  Seems like a win-win for both sides.

Davis, Cole, Mims, Crowder, E. Moore will be a Fab Five for the Jets this year.  I really like the setup and mix of talent, youth, experience of that group.

 

Hey Crowder, get to practice!

 

Hey, don't forget about the Berrios  

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

I don’t need to name the players

So your usual schtick. Make a vague comment and then just ask questions instead of saying anything. Gotcha. We're all aware by now that you're incapable of providing any details. 

[jetstream23]

Just now, THE BARON said:

Hey, don't forget about the Berrios  

 

Berrios is in there if I change my Fab Five to a Savory Six!