Training Camp Updates - Tues Aug 3

[Green Ghost]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I will be concerned if he continues to struggle in practice and if the Jets treat him with kid gloves in preseason games. He needs to play a lot on preseason, IMO. Let him get ready, take some hits and have a welcome to the NFL moment. The gap between BYU and the league is massive.

All good points.

I voiced the same concerns as @TeddEY however.

Im not down on Zach at all, as @FidelioJet said, he’s been about as good as we could’ve expected thus far. The issue I have is the team slotting him to be the day 1 starter, without a safety net.

I don’t think any reasonably sane Jet fans are expecting this years team to compete for a playoff spot this year, so what is the point? 
Id have brought in a vet, given Zach his reps during camp, and let him get his snaps in PS games, but let him sit for 4-6 weeks to start the season.

Again, not a knock on the kid. We just put on a clinic in how foolish it is to throw a rookie QB out there behind a bad OL. Whatever you think of his predecessor, what would be the harm of sitting Zach a few weeks to make sure the OL is good enough to give him a chance?

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Saleh is already losing the team. 

Man, I take a nap for an hour and its come to this?

SAR I

[flgreen]

5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I think Zach's doing alright seeing as it's almost unheard of for a rookie to be taking first team reps as the definite starter so early. At this point he doesnt exactly need to light it up. Him just not sucking and continuing to improve puts him pretty far ahead for where he is in his career.

Agree.

That and the fact that it appears that the DE's are running free at him, and he's not falling apart and throwing 2-3 picks every practice.

It's not Wilson on the O that I'm worried about at this point.  It's the OL.  Of course the OL needs some time to come together also.   We'll see how this all plays out when the Jets start practice against the other teams. 

[JohnnyLV]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I thought we should have had a veteran in there prior to these practices, and nothing Zach Wilson has done in these practices has made me rethink that.

I would have liked to have seen better accuracy with the ball when he has had chances in between the clear defensive wins.

Again, this isn't some hot take, it's a luke warm take, that the guy hasn't convinced me that he's ready to start in 40 days.

I have to admit I am overjoyed that we finally have a HC that is 100% focused on developing the young QB. I think having a veteran accomplishes next to nothing other than robbing the rookie of much needed reps. And any veteran we would get would suck and it would be very debatable that he would even be better than Zach. I detest the "veteran" QB thing.

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

Can he at least get to a preseason game first , before all the critics pounce?

[the Claw]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I can't take hearing Buttle and Lyons saying heighth.  Guys, it's not a ******* word.

Easily one of my biggest per peeves. It makes my skin crawl.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Man, I take a nap for an hour and its come to this?

SAR I

I thought it best if I was the one to tell you. 

[flgreen]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I guess I'm just less concerned about Becton and Moses because they are, to a certain extent, known commodities. I've seen them play (and look very good) against NFL defenses.

Hard to gather too much from a bunch of tweets considering we aren't there in person but I'm getting a little nervous about Wilson.

Let it play out a bit.  I mentioned before that the one good thing going on with Wilson is that he's not falling apart under all the pressure he appears to be under.

As you said We aren't there in person so it's hard to really understand what's happening on hand selected tweets from the scribes.  Particularly when the main tweeter is DJ Big-Anus  the new NYDN snark.   

[section314]

19 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

1) With the very unfortunate passing of Knapp, who is developing Zach?  There isnt a single player or coach on the team who has taken an NFL snap at QB.  Not 1. There isnt a single coach on the team who has developed a QB.  There isnt a single coach on the team who has called play in an NFL Football game.  And we're rolling out a project QB.  It's not a good recipe for success.  And I've got a buddy who has been to every practice and said Wilson has looked "erratic" at best, during live time.  That said, it's early...so we'll see how it changes but I hate that he has nobody to work with that actually knows the position. 

2) I'd be more concerned if he didnt prove himself last year.  Concerning?  Sure but I think Becton proved when he was available last year, he has elite attributes if he can put it all together and stay on the field. 

To your first point, they have to be looking/ interviewing guys to take over for coach Knapp, God rest his soul, right?

[Green Ghost]

10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have to admit I am overjoyed that we finally have a HC that is 100% focused on developing the young QB. I think having a veteran accomplishes next to nothing other than robbing the rookie of much needed reps. And any veteran we would get would suck and it would be very debatable that he would even be better than Zach. I detest the "veteran" QB thing.

Sam started day one. The HCs were 100% focused on developing him, the problem (aside from Sam himself) was the lack of talent around him, not reps that we’re going to McCown. ?

You loved Sam, do you want to see the same thing happen to Zach?

 

[HighPitch]

34 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

We're a little over a month away from week 1.  This isn't an assessment of his potential or his career, it's an assessment of where he is today, and where you'd hope a guy who's starting NFL games in a month would be.

Teddy dont you know you are not allowed to asses anything unless you have good things to say? Thats how it works around here buddy. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Let it play out a bit.  I mentioned before that the one good thing going on with Wilson is that he's not falling apart under all the pressure he appears to be under. 

As you said We aren't there in person so it's hard to really understand what's happening on hand selected tweets from the scribes.  Particularly when the main tweeter is DJ Big-Anus  the new NYDN snark.   

He's not allowed to get hit.  Very different then the real thing.  The "pressure" is imaginary at this point.  I think the concern is, from some first hand accounts, is that he's erratic in the face of fake pressure.  What happens when those rushers are allowed to come home is a different story.

[HighPitch]

29 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, he's going to get those preseason games, so of course it can change.  But, I don't see why this is so controversial an opinion, outside of you're not allowed to say anything but positive things about our QB, that 40 days isn't a long time, and he's looking only fair in shorts right now.

Wait Teddy... werent you one of the posse that ripped i to me because of my Mims assessment? Dont make me dig for posts

[SAR I]

9 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Can he at least get to a preseason game first , before all the critics pounce?

This.

Having been to a bunch of camp days over the years these are the most overrated events ever, they are more like walkthroughs.  In this era of fast typing social media they make a huge deal out of everything.  Three preseason games will tell the tale.  Right now, we're just looking for players to look like they are in the right position, running the right routes, making the right reads, not looking gassed.  The judgement on the execution comes in a few weeks.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

To your first point, they have to be looking/ interviewing guys to take over for coach Knapp, God rest his soul, right?

No clue but I sure hope so because Knapp was legitimately the only thing making me comfortable about Zach's development.  He's now getting coached up by Rob Calabrese who was the towel boy for the Broncos last year.  It's scary. 

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Won't isn't a word I've used.  It's 40 days, and the guy is a bit of a project.

I think it's a mistake not to have another option.

And, I guess my bar wasn't "low end starter."

He’s a rookie. I buy into rookies playing early and struggling and making determinations on their abilities early on. Unless we bring in Gardner Minshew, I don’t know if there’s a QB I’d rather have play than a rookie Zach Wilson.

[Irish Jet]

It’s a bit early to have any definitive judgement on Wilson but I hate how we never give our rookies real competition. Three in a row have pretty much been uncontested week one starters. I think the whole team will take some time to come together as there’s been a lot of turnover so I’m not shocked that it’s been a shaky start. 

Lawson is definitely really good but damn it’s concerning that Becton is just getting smoked. Hopefully he’s better for it but there were times he really struggled with speed rushers last year and it seems that’s continuing.

I do think our pass rush could he a force this year though and I can’t wait to see it. To think Q is still to come into this group. For all the concerns about the offence struggling I do think we have to consider the possibility that this defence is actually going to be really good. That front is scary. Will wait until the games before getting carried away.

Nice to see Blessuan Austin having a good camp. It was pretty laughable that some thought he’s struggle to make a roster. Saleh was always going to love him. 

 

[Lurker89]

I'm all giggles over here....

@FidelioJet 's foaming at the mouth defense of Zach is amusing. I mostly agree with you Fid. The kid isn't really showing cause for concern everyone is just all hyped up and looking for the "why" in why we're doomed.

 

I think Zach is doing just fine and will be fine come game day. I also have tempered expectations when it comes to how we will fare this year.... Call it the mature approach to Jets football. If the wheels fall off I'll just have a chuckle.

@TeddEY I think low end starter should be the benchmark.... Even if the kid is destined to be all world in the future, low end starter is all you can realistically hope for from a rookie QB in the NFL. Anyone we would have brought in would have been a low end starter with some starts on their resume. Mullens or trading for Foles doesn't inspire much confidence. 

I do think Lawson is a beast and everyone crying about Becton should chill. Becton needs to have a sit-down with Lawson and ask him what other LTs have done that has made his life difficult on the field. They need to work together to make each other better and I think they will. The Becton Lawson match up is only a good thing for this team and both individuals.

This O line will be better than anything Sam had .... Best skill position players I've seen us with in a long time ... Real nice front 7 and a secondary with youth and potential. 

I still only think we have a 10%-20% chance of being a good competitive football team because that seems like the smart place to be emotionally but I see a lot to like.

[Claymation]

 

[Bronx]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Hilarious 

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Ok, early worries that will surely garner plenty of thumbs downs.

1) I don't think Wilson is ready to be the day 1 starter.  Wish we had a veteran, even for 6-8 games.

2) Becton getting abused is not great.  This goes beyond "Well it's a good sign from Lawson."  Lawson may be the best pass rusher we've had since Abraham, but the guy isn't Lawrence Taylor.  Concerning.

Have to see it in a game before worrying. 

[kevinc855]

34 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have to admit I am overjoyed that we finally have a HC that is 100% focused on developing the young QB. I think having a veteran accomplishes next to nothing other than robbing the rookie of much needed reps. And any veteran we would get would suck and it would be very debatable that he would even be better than Zach. I detest the "veteran" QB thing.

Yea that worked out well for Sam

[kevinc855]

Kev's take so far

1) Saleh is awesome. Really like this guy as a leader of men. Doesn't obsess over one side of the ball and gets players to work. 

2) Wilson is raw but also not stinking it up. No surprise. We need a veteran QB. I will never understand why we didn't grab one. Not only for development with such a young QB room but what if Zach gets hurt? Rolling with White? Oh boy

3) Lawson looks amazing or Bechton looks bad. Not sure how to feel about this. 

4) Elijah Moore is a beast. He will end up being the best pick of the draft this year. 

5) Is Corey Davis alive?

6) Screen alot? Expect to see a ton through the season. 

7) Secondary holding up but its early. Secondary is a clear concern but the young kids holding their own. Not getting a legit corner was the biggest gamble of the offseason up there with leaving no veteran QB backup option. 

8.) We still are a revolving door for kickers. Frustrating. Hoping Naggar works out. 

9) Happy to see Jet fans back in action doing our thang at camp and soon the stadium. Games arent the same without us. 

JET UP!

[flgreen]

Rich Cimini @RichCimini 17m

Zach Wilson had so-so day. Some good throws early, including long completion to Vyncint Smith. Sputtered in third-down period, ending with sack + 3 straight incompletions. Finished 8-for-13, 3 sacks. Pocket got messy + held ball. Learning how to work in “phone booth.” #Jets

[ZachEY]

37 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Wait Teddy... werent you one of the posse that ripped i to me because of my Mims assessment? Dont make me dig for posts

Nope.  Not me.  Mostly because, honestly, outside of the Max thread, until TC, I haven't posted much.

That having been said, I'm sure whatever your assessment was, it was bad, and you are bad for having it.

[ZachEY]

31 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It’s a bit early to have any definitive judgement on Wilson but I hate how we never give our rookies real competition. Three in a row have pretty much been uncontested week one starters. I think the whole team will take some time to come together as there’s been a lot of turnover so I’m not shocked that it’s been a shaky start. 

The other thing about lack of competition is, for the fans at least, we'd be able to see where "it's the offensive line's fault" really plays out, vs, the guy just stinks.

[rex-n-effect]

I don't know why I would get bent out of shape over a rookie QB taking first team reps four days into his career and having so-so days. Every QB makes bad throws and has bad days. Brady is a HOF QB but had a lousy camp day this year and he's twenty years into his career. I'd like Wilson to look great every throw but he deserves to be judged by reasonable expectations under the circumstances.

[DoubleDown]

The Jets have a rookie HC, rookie OC, new offensive system, a significant number of new players on the offensive side of the ball, and a QB room with zero NFL starts under its belt.  It was always overly optimistic to expect a rookie QB out of BYU to come in and hit the ground running.

I was a proponent of drafting Wilson, letting Darnold play out the final year of his contract, and allowing Wilson to be developed and brought along slowly without the pressure of starting Day 1.  Taking over after the bye week would have potentially been a nice transition point.  With that said, I was totally on board with trading Darnold for the compensation package he fetched, but the Jets should have gone to Plan B in regard to bringing in a veteran QB.  At this point, they are basically forced to start Wilson as there is no other viable option on the roster.

It's still early and no games have been played yet.  Let's see how things develop over the coming weeks.  By no means am I counting Wilson out at this point.  I hope he puts it all together over the next month.  The red jersey is coming off sooner rather than later.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

We're a little over a month away from week 1.  This isn't an assessment of his potential or his career, it's an assessment of where he is today, and where you'd hope a guy who's starting NFL games in a month would be.

First practice in pads and Wilson is not ready?  Really?  How can anyone possibly tell?  And what "Vet" would be better?  Foles?  What does trading future assets and starting some garbage vet (because that is all that is available) for 6 games do?  How does that make Wilson or the team better?  Is Lawrence sitting for 6-=8 games on that garbage team?  

[MichaelScott]

On Zach - Anyone worrying about Winson is overreacting just as much as the people breaking out their boner pants over the way he looked great during OTAs. It might be true that he might not be ready to start week 1. When it became obvious that he was our draft pick, I was all for signing a vet QB and letting Zach sit for at least the start of the season. Even though it might not be a factor in the pro QB he will eventually be, but the difference in competition between BYU and the NFL is a bigger adjustment than most 1st round rookie QBs need to make. Regardless how talented he is, its going to be a very hard adjustment thats going to have its ugly moments. That being said, we didn't sign someone else so he's the guy week 1, even if realistically it might benefit him more to sit but it is what it is. As long as we have an oline that can give him legitimate protection (unlike Sam), than he's gonna be out there and we are going to have to ride out the ugly moments (and good moments) without overreacting too much. That being said this kid is the perfect student of the game with amazing dedication and legit confidence in himself. This is important because I think he has the make up where he will grow from the mistakes and the really ugly bad games. I don't think Zach is going to be seeing ghosts after a really bad couple series. Zach is a process just like the whole team is. We forget that it used to be almost unheard of for a rookie QB to start week 1 regardless of where they were drafted. If he doesn't look like Burrow or Herbert year 1 it's not the end of the world. 

On Becton/Lawson - It's hard to figure this one out. It's hard to imagine that Becton suddenly regressed significantly from year 1 to 2. However, the pragmatist in me finds it hard to believe that Lawson suddenly became a stud between last year and now. However I do think the former is more unlikely. What I'm wondering that has me a little worried is could it be the new blocking scheme that Lefleur is using that's causing him to struggle. That possibility worries me more than the chance that Becton suddenly became bad in year 2. BUT from following Bectons tweets and interviews, he comes across as a man that takes pride in being dominant and I think the talk of these struggles are going to motivate the hell out of him. The two of them are constantly talking to each other in practice and I think this will help him grow into his potential. I'm glad we finally have someone on D to give Becton problems. It'll make him a better a player when we he isn't practicing every day against the quality of another teams JV players.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Seems like a lot of stuff is just off target.  Overthrows, under throws - these are things that in shorts should be easy.  Rarely putting together a string of good completions, and when he is, they're all underneath stuff.

Again, this has zero to do with long term anything and everything to do with starting an NFL game in 40 days.

And a veteran from the trash that's out there will be better???????  How does that help the young receivers?  Who do you suggest they sign now?  Game plan to protect him and bring him along.  And let's wait for more than one live practice to decide this.

[MichaelScott]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

We're a little over a month away from week 1.  This isn't an assessment of his potential or his career, it's an assessment of where he is today, and where you'd hope a guy who's starting NFL games in a month would be.

Just out of curiosity, what QB were you calling for them to draft this year? 

[Lurker89]

4 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

However, the pragmatist in me finds it hard to believe that Lawson suddenly became a stud between last year and now.

He was already a stud ... There is a reason he was one of the only multi year contracts JD has dished out. Lawson is probably my favorite addition to the team.

He's going to be a boon for Becton's development in the long run.

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

While im not concerned about Zach ( its only the 4th practice, first in pads) I do kinda wonder why they havent sought out to replace Knapp.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I thought we should have had a veteran in there prior to these practices, and nothing Zach Wilson has done in these practices has made me rethink that.

I would have liked to have seen better accuracy with the ball when he has had chances in between the clear defensive wins.

Again, this isn't some hot take, it's a luke warm take, that the guy hasn't convinced me that he's ready to start in 40 days.

This is a horrible idea on so many levels.  Wilson needs reps period. There is no point in giving reps away to a garbage veteran.  First this board thought the world would end because Wilson missed two practices and now they want to give away invaluable practice reps to a QB who will never be in the Jets plans past October??? And then you want the beat writers to be comparing the two in their daily meaningless tweet fests?  These training camp tweets are a pile of useless information.  A play here, a pass there.  It tells us nothing. QB competitions are bad for teams.  When you have 2 QBs you have none. Let the kid play and learn.