The real reason Denzel Mims is buried on the New York Jets’ depth chart

[FidelioJet]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's there a need for him to learn the options on the routes he does run?  Honestly, if he is just acting out because he feels put down and they make an example of him?  So what?  This board has celebrated and demanded that be done to be considerably better players like Abraham, WIlkerson and RIchardson.  You don't make a point holding Chris Herndon accountable.  Guys like Austin and Mims?  Maybe. 

I think when you say things like “this board” it’s a bit unfair.  Because there are two sides to everything and two sides to this. 
 

i, for one, have always been best players play. These guys are paid to win. It’s not about teaching lessons. Coaches are paid to win, which means daal with problems. 
 

I suspect most people are consistent on this one here. But I could be wrong. 

[Paradis]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Sure. It has been one game.

That’s a terrible reply. And I say that with love, cause u on the level. You’re on the “He knows” list. And this is you coming up empty. There been problems elsewhere. Is Mims the issue? Maybe. But you flat out balking on an honest question 

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think when you say things like “this board” it’s a bit unfair.  Because there are two sides to everything and two sides to this. 
 

i, for one, have always been best players play. These guys are paid to win. It’s not about teaching lessons. Coaches are paid to win, which means daal with problems. 
 

I suspect most people are consistent on this one here. But I could be wrong. 

Fair enough.  Maybe they are dealing with a problem. 

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Quote by Corey Davis made sometime in training camp-----

“Mims is really talented man, it’s really up to him, coming out here and doing the work every single day. The grind gets hard, it’s tough at times, even for me there are days I don’t want to come out here, but in order to get better you’ve got to do the things you don’t want to do. So for him it’s just that mental block and pushing past that, because he has all the physical attributes, mentally, I think that’s where his battle is”

Quote by Cimini -----

“There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well”

 

 

the quote by Davis says it all.  Mimms isn't putting the effort in - combine that with the illness and you can see why he's on the bench.

[Jethead]

With as many facts as anybody else on this board, I say Mims has shown himself to be the weakest link. Until he earns more playing time, I hope the Jets play the guys who outplayed him in TC and earned their reps.

[munchmemory]

Just now, batman10023 said:

the quote by Davis says it all.  Mimms isn't putting the effort in - combine that with the illness and you can see why he's on the bench.

Some guys never get the NFL system.  Others, who might be less talented, pick it up naturally and excel past expectations. 

[Scott Dierking]

18 minutes ago, Paradis said:

That’s a terrible reply. And I say that with love, cause u on the level. You’re on the “He knows” list. And this is you coming up empty. There been problems elsewhere. Is Mims the issue? Maybe. But you flat out balking on an honest question 

What, you want me to get upset and totally tear down the offensive scheme after one game? That seems totally knee jerk. I have no idea what they will be, nor what the success will be. That is not a reason to make proclamations.

What I do know is that the system has worked elsewhere and has been successful. Compared to the past 2 years, that feels like a dynasty in the making. I refuse to bail this early.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

lol jesus...If there's one thing i don't have time for it's the too proud middle-aged guy who responds with some "don't tell me how to life my life" trash

I am a therapist. deal with it. 

 

Na, I'll toss you on ignore and tell you to get f'ed instead I think.

Good luck with your campaign to get Mike fired after one week.  Seems legit.

[Turd Ferguson]

6 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

the quote by Davis says it all.  Mimms isn't putting the effort in - combine that with the illness and you can see why he's on the bench.

Yes. 

He’s being taught how to be a professional. In good time, he’ll hopefully get it and contribute.

[Turd Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

lol jesus...If there's one thing i don't have time for it's the too proud middle-aged guy who responds with some "don't tell me how to life my life" trash

I am a therapist. deal with it. 

 

Do I have to make an appointment or are walk-ins welcome? Also, can you DM me pics of your hands completing feats of strength?

[Paradis]

19 minutes ago, Turd Ferguson said:

Do I have to make an appointment or are walk-ins welcome? Also, can you DM me pics of your hands completing feats of strength?

why not share it with everyone.

[Paradis]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Na, I'll toss you on ignore and tell you to get f'ed instead I think.

Good luck with your campaign to get Mike fired after one week.  Seems legit.

Too proud guy is too proud.....probably the most shocking response since i asked my 5 year old if he wanted ice cream.

[Warfish]

36 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

the quote by Davis says it all.  Mimms isn't putting the effort in - combine that with the illness and you can see why he's on the bench.

Not running the right routes, not putting in the effort, not handling Coach feedback well, has a persecution complex.

Mims is right where Mims belongs.  He's got so many gifts, his future is literally up to him.

 

[Paradis]

39 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

What, you want me to get upset and totally tear down the offensive scheme after one game? That seems totally knee jerk. I have no idea what they will be, nor what the success will be. That is not a reason to make proclamations.

What I do know is that the system has worked elsewhere and has been successful. Compared to the past 2 years, that feels like a dynasty in the making. I refuse to bail this early.

maybe a better way to frame it is, why are you assuming he's a good coach? Because he comes from the Shanny-tree? How many BB assistants have gone down like a Zepplin... operationally/scheme was in only 50% of the job... the other half is leadership/coaching/mentorship.... i see subject matter experts fall all the time with the second half of that job description

I just throwing it out there that it may not be as simple as Mims is dumb/aloof

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

maybe a better way to frame it is, why are you assuming he's a good coach? Because he comes from the Shanny-tree? How many BB assistants have gone down like a Zepplin... operationally/scheme was in only 50% of the job... the other half is leadership/coaching/mentorship.... i see subject matter experts fall all the time with the second half of that job description

I just throwing it out there that it may not be as simple as Mims is dumb/aloof

50% scheme, 50% leadership/coaching/mentorship

That doesn't leave a lot of room for the most important part.

Having good players.

[Beerfish]

We re getting pissed at the oc because Mims has not at all progressed the way we hoped?  For gods sake.

These guys want to win, they want the best players playing, if Mims had come to camp and lit it up like I expected he would be starting.

Also  if coaches are getting on his case that is a good thing.  When people give you grief it is because they know you can do more and be better.  The big worry is when people start to ignore your mistakes. that means they no long er give a shi* about you as a player or employee.

 

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

maybe a better way to frame it is, why are you assuming he's a good coach? Because he comes from the Shanny-tree? How many BB assistants have gone down like a Zepplin... operationally/scheme was in only 50% of the job... the other half is leadership/coaching/mentorship.... i see subject matter experts fall all the time with the second half of that job description

I just throwing it out there that it may not be as simple as Mims is dumb/aloof

I have already answered this, regardless how many different ways you to choose to frame it. ONE game. ONE game. In in that one game, I actually witnessed more ingenuity on offense than I witnessed in the past 2 years. 

Baby steps of course. But I will take that, because it is all that I have. I will be more ready to make pronouncements around weeks 8 or 9, and even better at the end of the year. Rookie quarterback starting his first NFL game is everything you need to know about the offense. 

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

I am a therapist. deal with it. 

How empathic.

[munchmemory]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We re getting pissed at the oc because Mims has not at all progressed the way we hoped?  For gods sake.

These guys want to win, they want the best players playing, if Mims had come to camp and lit it up like I expected he would be starting.

Also  if coaches are getting on his case that is a good thing.  When people give you grief it is because they know you can do more and be better.  The big worry is when people start to ignore your mistakes. that means they no long er give a shi* about you as a player or employee.

 

Dude, every year there is a guy who is embraced by many as just not being understood by the coaches.   It's like they're holding back his talent.  Not that the player sucks or is unwilling to step his game up.

[FTL Jet Fan]

When the new coaching staff feels he is ready to contribute to their offensive plans we will see him, no matter how much we bitch and complain.

[doitny]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

It's not about rewarding a player who they claim is not playing well, it's about WINNING. It's absurd that the CS isn't smart enough to find a way to utilize Mims on more than 3 plays. They say he's not playing well. The only problem with that is he passes the eye test with flying colors. Every time Mims gets a play he looks like the same excellent prospect we've always known him to be. Good coaches place players in position to do what they do best. Robert Saleh is NOT doing that. Instead, he's trying to get a good football player to conform to other jobs, which wouldn't necessarily EVER be his normal responsibility. Mims has excellent talent on go routes. It's for the a$$hole CS to expand their horizons so they can win a game.

you want to win? then play the best guys. and right now thats not Mims.

you want to know who passes the eye test? Adams. played really good in the few carries he had last year and played the best game for a RB this preseason. but Perine got the job and Adams got cut.

it doesn't matter what our eyes tell us for 60 mins a week, this CS is with these guys every day for hours. they see them more then us. 

do you know how this offense runs? read the link by @MR.GANGGREEN28

there are no set plays. no set routes. the WRs dont know the routes till they read the defense at the L.O.S. you cant get Mims his own plays without messing up the whole offense. and im sure that will go over well with his teammates. and how long till the other teams know when Mims is out there he getting the ball.

you want to win then trust your coach to know what hes doing. hes only coached ONE game.

and you know what i like about what Saleh is doing?. hes not playing politics. cause if he was he would do those special plays for Mims cause he was a high draft pick. im sure JD would like to see Mims out there more too. 

 

 

[addage]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I look at it as tough love, or help-me-help-you, from the coaches. Mims turns just 24 in October so (since they have plenty of depth at WR now, and aren't contenders this year anyway) this is as good a time as any to do it. Unlike last year, when there was no one else to put on the field, on this roster he won't get out there just by being healthy.

He'll either rise to this challenge or he won't. If he doesn't, his resulting temporary, borderline-WR2/3 career will fade as some long seasons, injury, or father time shaves 0.1 seconds off his straightline speed, and the last remaining coaches (once wow'd by his upside themselves) are finally fed up with him too often being in the wrong place. That'd be a shame, because it seems he has the talent to be so much more.

Great post.  Enjoyed reading it.

First.  The "tough love" point is probably valid.  But its a 2 way street.  This is not the U of Alabama.  You can burn a player there knowing its an example to others.  Jets have a dearth of talent.  Saleh talks about approaching players to bring out their best.  I am uncomfortable communicating with players through the media.  They're not the best filter.  Mims has to step up.  But the coaches can't turn themselves into obstacles to that process.

If they have decided that Mims is not a guy they want long term, the best thing they can do is prop up his play, get the most out of him and then work a trade.  Having him waste away on the bench isn't helpful unless its part of successful education program.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, addage said:

Great post.  Enjoyed reading it.

First.  The "tough love" point is probably valid.  But its a 2 way street.  This is not the U of Alabama.  You can burn a player there knowing its an example to others.  Jets have a dearth of talent.  Saleh talks about approaching players to bring out their best.  I am uncomfortable communicating with players through the media.  They're not the best filter.  Mims has to step up.  But the coaches can't turn themselves into obstacles to that process.

If they have decided that Mims is not a guy they want long term, the best thing they can do is prop up his play, get the most out of him and then work a trade.  Having him waste away on the bench isn't helpful unless its part of successful education program.

It was also an odd contrast listening to saleh praise Elijah moore while explaining why the guy who caught the 40 yd throw wasn’t going to be playing next week.  I mean, what happens if moore drops a few more passes vs NE, do you still continue to praise him in the media b/c he (allegedly) knows the routes?  Saleh may have backed himself into a corner here, the wrs he puts out there have to produce something.  Because for the first time in a long time in jet land, there aren’t many people out there who are going to be blaming the quarterback.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have already answered this, regardless how many different ways you to choose to frame it. ONE game. ONE game. In in that one game, I actually witnessed more ingenuity on offense than I witnessed in the past 2 years. 

Baby steps of course. But I will take that, because it is all that I have. I will be more ready to make pronouncements around weeks 8 or 9, and even better at the end of the year. Rookie quarterback starting his first NFL game is everything you need to know about the offense. 

Sure. I get it, i do.... not faulting that logic. But, by that same extension - concede that ONE coach seems to be having a hard time with Mims... Baylor didn't have one... Nagy & SB company didn't have one... Gase, he certainly didn't have a problem mothballing people he didn't like... and yet not a peep.... And ALL of sudden he scks ass. 

Do you see the picture i'm painting?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

How empathic.

Canadian therapists have to bring the tough love.  

 

[Scott Dierking]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Do you see the picture i'm painting?

It is incomplete. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

Dude, every year there is a guy who is embraced by many as just not being understood by the coaches.   It's like they're holding back his talent.  Not that the player sucks or is unwilling to step his game up.

i dunno about that.  I agree that there's always players that have their champions - but this goes beyond that. This isn't Herndon continues to suck on sundays and is getting phased out. This is a guy who was coming a long after a heck of a junion/senior campaign was the toast of the senior bowl and made plays on a terrible offense. The reason it's keeps getting attention is because it doesn't add up

is there even a point to this? Are you just going to argue that it's all him, regardless?

[munchmemory]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

i dunno about that.  I agree that there's always players that have their champions - but this goes beyond that. This isn't Herndon continues to suck on sundays and is getting phased out. This is a guy who was coming a long after a heck of a junion/senior campaign was the toast of the senior bowl and made plays on a terrible offense. The reason it's keeps getting attention is because it doesn't add up

is there even a point to this? Are you just going to argue that it's all him, regardless?

I guess it doesn't ad up if you believe the coaches are intentionally trying to ruin Mims.  I don't.  Sometimes, the true answer is right there in front of you.  The coaches, after evaluating Mims' grasp of the playbook and play/effort during practice, may really believe the other receivers are better at this point and deserve to be on the field before him.  Whether this is true or not?  I have no friggin' idea.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Aright…

I feel better about this situation then I did before. 
They see the potential but also see the rough spots and want him to turn those things around because it could be the difference between being good and being elite. 
Plus they're setting the standard for the team. Don’t put in the work, there’s other guys that will and they’ll get the chance. 
Plus seeing him after practice today going through reps with Miles Austin. He’s not just mailing it in. 

[Turd Ferguson]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

How empathic.

[Jets723]

I’m all for giving the bulk of the playing time to those who understand the system and excel in it.  Obviously we’re all hoping Mims gets to that point soon because when the kid has played he has shown to be productive.  Also he has dealt with injuries so that might have set him back as well.  

[Jetworks]

Lots of folks are pointing to the go Mims had towards the end of the game. I ask that you roll back one play to the 4th down conversion to Berrios and watch just how soft Mims is in his route transition (0:08). This was the worry about him coming out of college; poor route running, blamed on route trees. Maybe the trees weren't the problem....

 

 

[Turd Ferguson]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Aright…

I feel better about this situation then I did before. 
They see the potential but also see the rough spots and want him to turn those things around because it could be the difference between being good and being elite. 
Plus they're setting the standard for the team. Don’t put in the work, there’s other guys that will and they’ll get the chance. 
Plus seeing him after practice today going through reps with Miles Austin. He’s not just mailing it in. 

This is a sane way to view it. 

Same fans that cry “you get paid millions of dollars get out there and do your job” are typically the ones that cry “but, but, potential when a guy just isn’t just handed a job” then cry “this guy is a bust, when he can’t do the job “.

In short, people cry about everything. None of them actually care if Mims has someone managing his career path.

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

This is all but settles it for me. I don't want to hang this on you (case you know i love you) but you're holding the bloody knife and glove and yet somehow looking around for clues.

The conversation needs to be with Mike LaFleur and his staff. Is it that the guy who's always been the hard working playmaker suddenly forgot how to do both, or is the approach and asks of our staff (brand new first gig) needing some time in the mirror. 

I know where I sit. Saleh needs to stop pretending this is all on Mims.

I can say one thing: They are not totally giving up on him just yet.  Take this for what you will, but from everything I’ve heard, they just want to challenge him to be great because he did leave a lot to be desired this summer.  There have been questionable moments, from both parties, on the back end, yes…but I think they’ll square this away barring something drastic.  Ultimately, how Mims responds is up to him.  He’s been frustrated for sure.  I liken this situation to Devante Parker’s second year in Miami.  Guy has the all the tools, but needs to be told he hasn’t “made it” yet.

 

 

 

 

luv u 2 :*.

[Sperm Edwards]

58 minutes ago, addage said:

Great post.  Enjoyed reading it.

First.  The "tough love" point is probably valid.  But its a 2 way street.  This is not the U of Alabama.  You can burn a player there knowing its an example to others.  Jets have a dearth of talent.  Saleh talks about approaching players to bring out their best.  I am uncomfortable communicating with players through the media.  They're not the best filter.  Mims has to step up.  But the coaches can't turn themselves into obstacles to that process.

If they have decided that Mims is not a guy they want long term, the best thing they can do is prop up his play, get the most out of him and then work a trade.  Having him waste away on the bench isn't helpful unless its part of successful education program.

He didn't tell the media he had playbook memorization issues for the prior 2 months. At some point, it's fair game so people don't think Mims is being benched for spite or disciplinary reasons (as some had already guessed), or that there was some other petty reason. Saleh seems a pretty personal guy, not some cold, Coughlin-esque douche. 

He's had how long to get this playbook memorized? How many months? It's not like there are 2000 plays, for 3 different positions, and 3 different route trees for each. He's not a new acquisition from last month or anything, so he'll have had received his new playbook plenty of time ago. 

At some point, the player loses the benefit of the doubt. As best we can tell he's literally the only one, so the benefit of the doubt is right now heavily with the coaches not the player here. There's no evidence at all that Mims is any type of victim here. It's time for him to grow up. Past time, honestly. 

I hope he does; we don't have a baker's dozen of 24 year olds with his size & speed & skills.