How much of Wilson's problems are mental? (i.e. the yips)

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

24 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

The Jets literally had to spend money to bring in his "personal coach" who coddles him on the sidelines with pep talks. That move alone made me question his maturity and grit. Now, I'm fine with it, if it works, but the fact that you even need that is like.....weird. 

If they hadn't done that, we would be screaming once again about how the Jets make no effort to develop their QBs. They can bring Mr. Rogers in and he can wear his sweater on the sideline if that's what it takes. 

[kevinc855]

1 minute ago, The Gun Of Bavaria said:

If they hadn't done that, we would be screaming once again about how the Jets make no effort to develop their QBs. They can bring Mr. Rogers in and he can wear his sweater on the sideline if that's what it takes. 

Like I said, im fine with it, if it works......but it makes me scratch my head on why you need it, 

[nyjunc]

He just returned from injury, he didn't have carter or Davis and he's clearly not fully healthy yet.  He's going to be fine.

[BurntDice]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

Like I said, im fine with it, if it works......but it makes me scratch my head on why you need it, 

The qb coach has never done it before. That alone is a reason to bring him in to help. Knapp was going to be a major force in developing Zach, unfortunately he is no longer with us. 

[slats]

54 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Josh Allen struggled his first year but he was never ever this bad not even close. he had some big games and in reality the only time Zach showed anything at all worth a crap was in the second half of the first game.

Yeah, that might be revisionist history. Allen was awful his rookie year. The only thing that saved him was his running ability. 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

it’s also why My Quite was so effective against the Bengals (and Colts in his limited time in that game). 

White succeeded against soft cover 2 Ds that gave him the underneath stuff. So, when he played like check down charlie, he looked like a superstar. Then the Bills came along and played man and Cover 1 and White had a ton of problems with all of the defensive traffic within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. 

[Maxman]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, that might be revisionist history. Allen was awful his rookie year. The only thing that saved him was his running ability. 

More INTs than TDs, 2,000 yards passing on the year. 50% completion.

Wow they stuck with the kid, built the talent level around him and he got better. Crazy concept.

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, that might be revisionist history. Allen was awful his rookie year. The only thing that saved him was his running ability. 

Yeah that's why I said Struggled he did have some very good games mixed in as well it was not all trash like we are seeing. Yes his running helped that no doubt but in reality it helps him to this day its part of his game. Still big questions in the playoffs just like Lamar Jackson since both are prone to bad games like really bad games from time to time which usually comes against difficult opponents in the playoffs.

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, that might be revisionist history. Allen was awful his rookie year. The only thing that saved him was his running ability. 

Zach might actually be playing better than Allen's 52.8% with 10 TD and 12 Int.

[Maxman]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He just returned from injury, he didn't have carter or Davis and he's clearly not fully healthy yet.  He's going to be fine.

That is a really good point. I didn't think of it like that but the Jets were without WR1 and RB1 yesterday. Oh and they won. Oh oh and Jets fans are still mad lol.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

White succeeded against soft cover 2 Ds that gave him the underneath stuff. So, when he played like check down charlie, he looked like a superstar. Then the Bills came along and played man and Cover 1 and White had a tone of problems with all of the defensive traffic within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. 

Once again name me one QB who played well against the Bills Defense . Before he got hurt in the Colts game he drove us for a score vs a Defense that was playing us to take away the short game and White was on the money completeting tight passes in coverage. This short pass argument is beyond stupid especially since a guy named Tom Brady made a living beating us every year using that exact style winning 6 SB's in the process . The only time Brady really attacked downfield with any regularity was when he had Randy Moss. 

The 2 best QB's in history made a living running offenses with short accurate passing games  another QB who made a living beating teams underneath was Drew Brees a guy who had 190 completions to RB's in one of his best years. You care to complain about Brady Montana Brees and yes Peyton manning who had his best years with a short passing game. There were times in the playoffs everyone of the players I mentioned above got destroyed in the playoffs and 2 of the said QB's were destroyed by the Jets Defense in consecutive games but you know Mike White had a bad game against the Bills so in Jets fans eyes it all over now for MW . Like I said Jets fans deserve what they get when they make comments like damn be the short passing game.

[kevinc855]

21 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, that might be revisionist history. Allen was awful his rookie year. The only thing that saved him was his running ability. 

Ok, well Allen was bad as a rookie but I slow down the comparision a bit. 

Allen played 12 games in 2018 and threw 10 TD's and 12 INTS. 

Wilson is at 4 TDs and 10 INTS through 6 games. 

[kevinc855]

16 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Zach might actually be playing better than Allen's 52.8% with 10 TD and 12 Int.

Wilson is on pace to double the INTS Allen had his rookie year

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Wilson is on pace to double the INTS Allen had his rookie year

Don't really think that is the point.

[TuscanyTile2]

42 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Sometimes QBs (like pitchers, golfers or 3 point shooters) just have a game where their accuracy and feel is not up to par (or even flat out bad). I don't understand why people think a QB is immune having a bad day throwing the ball. In an interview, Phil Simms said he knew he was going to have a great SB and the Giants would likely win because in warm-ups, he had "it" that day. Every warm-up throw was pin point and he could not miss. Well, he said that because the opposite happens too.

It’s not 1 game 

[dcJet]

Yesterday was a big let down.  We were excited and hopeful to see Zack play better with the improved play calling and blocking that M-F-W and Flacco had.  But we didn't get that.  So now we know it's actually a Zach problem and not a Mike-on-the-sideline and GVR problem.

[TuscanyTile2]

25 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

White succeeded against soft cover 2 Ds that gave him the underneath stuff. So, when he played like check down charlie, he looked like a superstar. Then the Bills came along and played man and Cover 1 and White had a ton of problems with all of the defensive traffic within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. 

The Bills are a great defensive team though so we couldn’t give White another start and see what would’ve happened?

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Once again name me one QB who played well against the Bills Defense . Before he got hurt in the Colts game he drove us for a score vs a Defense that was playing us to take away the short game and White was on the money completeting tight passes in coverage. This short pass argument is beyond stupid especially since a guy named Tom Brady made a living beating us every year using that exact style winning 6 SB's in the process . The only time Brady really attacked downfield with any regularity was when he had Randy Moss. 

The 2 best QB's in history made a living running offenses with short accurate passing games  another QB who made a living beating teams underneath was Drew Brees a guy who had 190 completions to RB's in one of his best years. You care to complain about Brady Montana Brees and yes Peyton manning who had his best years with a short passing game. There were times in the playoffs everyone of the players I mentioned above got destroyed in the playoffs and 2 of the said QB's were destroyed by the Jets Defense in consecutive games but you know Mike White had a bad game against the Bills so in Jets fans eyes it all over now for MW . Like I said Jets fans deserve what they get when they make comments like damn be the short passing game.

Odds that all of the scouts and coaches got the Mike White evaluation wrong and he will be starting QB in the NFL are long indeed. This is his fourth year in the league. He didn't show enough for the Cowboys to keep him and he didn't even show enough in practice for the Jets not to panic when Wilson got hurt and make a trade for old man Joe. And the fact that 3 QBs with 4 years, 14 years and 14 years experience in the NFL had success helming the Jets while Zach was hurt speaks more of the Jets O scheme/design, LaFluer's maturation as an OC and Zach's rookie struggles than it does of the other QBs' abilities. 

Zach might not be the answer at QB, but if he's not, the answer is most certainly not on the Jets roster this season.   

[dcJet]

Zach is really frickin raw.  Some guys pointed that out here before the draft but we never knew he was THAT raw.  Still, raw can be fixed.  The anxiety at the beginning of games, the speed of the games and all that, will get better with experience (or not).

Zach currently has that nervous, over-excited Sanchez vibe that Sanchez never overcame.  I'm worried, but it's not over.  Raw is fixable.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Bills are a great defensive team though so we couldn’t give White another start and see what would’ve happened?

This isn't a "see what happens" business. You evaluate players and put the best ones out there.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Anyone who watched 10 seconds of Hackenberg’s final year in college knows he had the yips long before he came to the Jets. 

As a PSU fan, I can confirm. 
 

I confidently mocked the Jets on draft night for taking Hack. 

[Sonny Werblin]

9 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Wilson is on pace to double the INTS Allen had his rookie year

"Pace" is a funny word. With 7 of his 10 picks happening in his first 3 games, perhaps you need to rethink your definition of "pace". And I think Allen only had 11 starts.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Like I said, im fine with it, if it works......but it makes me scratch my head on why you need it, 

Because it could help make him better? lol. 

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Odds that all of the scouts and coaches got the Mike White evaluation wrong and he will be starting QB in the NFL are long indeed. This is his fourth year in the league. He didn't show enough for the Cowboys to keep him and he didn't even show enough in practice for the Jets not to panic when Wilson got hurt and make a trade for old man Joe. And the fact that 3 QBs with 4 years, 14 years and 14 years experience in the NFL had success helming the Jets while Zach was hurt speaks more of the Jets O scheme/design, LaFluer's maturation as an OC and Zach's rookie struggles than it does of the other QBs' abilities. 

Zach might not be the answer at QB, but if he's not, the answer is most certainly not on the Jets roster this season.   

Scouts Coaches ? They get the QB position wrong at an alarming rate across the board. It's a pure Luck scenario. Did you see the scouting report on Montana and Brady the 2 best QB's ever ? Maybe when this league decides to draft football players rather than athletes things might change but right now week in and week out all I see all over the league is sloppy Football but damn that guy is one hell of an athlete.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

It's going to be interesting this Sunday.   Right now, the Eagles are 11th in the NFL in defense.  A big difference from Houston at 29th.  If Philly plays well, we'll get a clear view on if Zack has made progress or not.

29th ranked defense and Zach just tore them up for 145 yards

[undertow]

7 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Zach is really frickin raw.  Some guys pointed that out here before the draft but we never knew he was THAT raw.  Still, raw can be fixed.  The anxiety at the beginning of games, the speed of the games and all that, will get better with experience (or not).

Zach currently has that nervous, over-excited Sanchez vibe that Sanchez never overcame.  I'm worried, but it's not over.  Raw is fixable.

He's obviously much more of a project then was advertised and should have spent the year on the bench like Lance....the question now is being on the field a positive or negative because things aren't progressing at all and Zach is starting to look mortified is his post game interviews.  I think we are just ruining him tbh.

[ultraJETfan]

After yesterdays game I was about ready to give up on the kid but after watching guys like Lamar, Baker, Herbert, Cam, Hurts all have horrendously bad TOs, and these guys are 2nd yr+ players, I start to feel that I have to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and not give up on him so early. As a Jets fan I'm rooting for him to ball out vs Philly.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

JD and his staff would like a word....

Oh believe me, I have several words for them too (many of the 4 letter kind). 

[Sonny Werblin]

30 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Bills are a great defensive team though so we couldn’t give White another start and see what would’ve happened?

Isn't practice where a QB wins the job? Do you think White has been tearing it up in practice all year?

And I agree, the Bills are a great D. And I want a great QB who can beat them.  It might not be Zach. It certainly is not Mike White.

[doitny]

33 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Ok, well Allen was bad as a rookie but I slow down the comparision a bit. 

Allen played 12 games in 2018 and threw 10 TD's and 12 INTS. 

Wilson is at 4 TDs and 10 INTS through 6 games. 

true but why dont you do it after 6 just like Wilson. its 2 TDs and 5INTs

and games 5 and 6 he threw for about 80 yds each.

and game 7 wasnt so great either with a 42 % comp 160yd and 1 TD.

and despite all of Zachs throwing accuracy's. he is at 57% comp rate for the year. Allen finish at 52% and 4 out of 12 games Allen had under 50% throwing. Zachs worst day was his first game at 54%

its was really Allens last 5 games but still wasnt good except the last one. he was horrible at comp%

 

[yvj]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Josh Allen struggled his first year but he was never ever this bad not even close. he had some big games and in reality the only time Zach showed anything at all worth a crap was in the second half of the first game.

The Titans game was the second half of the first game? My sense of time must be off. 

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

His short passing has been Hackenberg-esque so far.  I have to believe it will improve because it doesn’t make sense to me that this wouldn’t have been seen during scouting. But it’s gotten to the point where I’m worried.  

Same here.  Those are high percentage passes, they are "must haves" for an offense.  You can't be turning screen passes, checkdowns and 3-yard outs into 50/50 balls.  The offense can't function if you're not taking the gimme plays.

[derp]

His play this season is starting to remind me of Sanchez but on a worse team.

I think honestly that’s why I’m so big on building up around him. I think his talent is such that if he can be carried by the cast it’ll minimize the impact of his mistakes and the extraordinary plays will be cool and maybe he can build some confidence as he’s working through his mechanical issues and learning how to play at this level.

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

What I find very weird is that in pre season he looked the part. He was accurate, he was looking off safeties and he was scanning the field like a seasoned Vet . Then the regular season and he cant hit a player in stride or with any accuracy at all. A lot of his completions causing players to have to constantly adjust (he had many of those yesterday) is not going to fly in this league. What's even more alarming is he's making mistakes and bad throws even when there is no pressure. He also seems to be getting worse with his accuracy could it be possible there is something wrong with his arm ? I say this because he always threw a tight spiral now he's throwing wobblers . Makes no sense to me

Also in preseason, how often was he going against starters?  How often were teams showing different blitz packages?   Teams tend to play very vanilla defense then.

[Joe W. Namath]

At minimum, Zach Wilson is getting all 17 games next year to prove his is the qb this team has been looking for.  To discuss any other alternative is pointless cause it has 0 shot of happening.