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Could Drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 be Justified?


Warfish

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In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

I love this idea personally 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

This is an argument for immediate termination.? Kidding, sort of. This draft is deep at Edge and TE, so you would be covered there. To your point, the only way I could see doing this would be if you had Jameson Williams rated in your top 10, and had him clearly as the #1 WR. Take him #4 and then Burks, London whomever at #10. You would do this more than likely with giving Williams the year to fully recover. What I really could see, trading out of #4, if there is a willing partner, and taking WR at #10, and then double dipping on WR later on. This is where coaching all these kids in the Senior Bowl could pay off.

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It’s not the craziest idea and might even work if the Jets didn’t have so many holes!  I also think you are taking the most negative views of Davis (proven #2 WR), Berrios (because of a rumored asking price) and Moore (who produced like a #1 Wr over a span of 5 games before getting hurt).

Moore’s usage and a major strength is his ability to play inside and outside so drafting 2 outside guys would not be the best use of draft capital.  The numbers don’t lie, look at how he was used and how well he performed in each role.  
 

I love how London compliments the others and would favor an experienced TE like Schultz over another young guy.  Balance is key.

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11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

Honestly, I have been as negative as anyone here on this team but this is a new level. I found this so depressing, I couldn't  get past the halfway point of the OP. Spending the first two picks on WR's is loony.  Our WR looked bad most of the season because of Wilson, not the other way around. Moore to me was a pleasant surprise. He showed up in his rookie year in a position that normally takes 2 or 3 years for a player to develop  into. Carter is also going to help in the passing game. There is no need to roll the dice twice at WR. There are plenty of UFA WR's. I'm actually hoping we get Scantling. He would be a #1  if he didn't  play opposite  Adams. The only skill spot I would be ok with in the first is TE because we have literally nothing after Kroft. The first two picks should be LB, Edge, or DB (not necessarily in that order)

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It's intriguing, but I think the organization is higher on Davis and Moore than 'meh' and 'mostly hope'.

Given the past rumors surrounding Godwin (and Schuster Smith), I can see the Jets making a run at either guy.   And I do think  have to consider a  WR at #10 if they don't bring in a top flight FA.  But using both picks on a WRs is overkill, and puts one of those guys (or Davis) on the bench for a majority of snaps- which isn't a good use of resources.   Give Wilson another starting WR, and get a TE in the 2nd and there should be no excuses about his supporting cast. 

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I guess I'm tired of FA never-gonna-happen fantasies (we're gonna sign Devonte Adams!), homer fantasies (Moore is totally a reliable elite #1 WR) and second tier Draft half measures (Mims is really a 1st round talent, really) when it comes to our Offense, especially in this era of the NFL, and especially given our QB needs all the help he can get.

Signing some mid-grade WR and drafting one later on, maybe, is not going to make the Jets Offense competitive.  Davis and Moore are not "studs" in the way that drives a top 10 Offense.  Not alone.  And Wilson isn't close to the kind of "stud" who makes average WR's into studs.  Not yet.

If we blow our picks "rebuilding the Defense" and leave our #1 draft pick QB on a fragile, talent-deficient Offense, again, it's going to be a sh*tshow.  This Defense, even if top 15 (a massive leap from now) isn't going to win us 10 games.  And if our Offense remains near the bottom of the NFL, we're basically writing off 2022 as another lost season of "rebuilding".

For once, I'd like to see this team make a big, bold, leap to make an effort be field a real, legitimate Offense.  To support Wilson, and give him the very best chance to succeed.  To score points, and win by scoring points.  And being exciting.  And interesting, in ways we've rarely seen as Jets Fans (2015, the first two Sanchez years, one year with Vinny, the mid-80's, Namath....).

My nightmare is we draft and a Safety, an Edge, a LB and a TE as our top 4 picks.  And what scares me is I think that is a real possibility.

 

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I think it would be a mistake to get two WRs in the first. However, depending on what happens in FA, it could be justified. Just maybe not advisable.

Scenario where I would be ok with taking two WRs.

FA: sign starting RG, TE, CB and S.

Draft:

4) Garrett Wilson WR

10) Treylon Burks WR

Use 35 and 69 to trade up for an edge rusher (say Jermaine Johnson)

Use 38 for Trey McBride TE

Then use day 3 picks for depth along the OL, to take a shot at LB and to add a rotational back.

 

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20 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Nope.  Wouldn't even take one at 10.  

Moore is a stud.  Davis will be fine.  Add a TE and a slot early with another WR in the middle rounds and you're good to go.

Pick 4 should be OL and 10 used on edge or to trade down.

 

Moore and Davis are always hurt. I probably don’t double dip in round 1, but the Jets should walk away with 2 receivers and 2 backs from this draft.

.

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35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In discussing WR quite a bit of late, specifically the Berrios issue, it's pretty clear......our WR room sucks today.  Davis (meh) and Moore (mostly hope).

Mims, bust.  Cole, gone.  Crowder, likely gone.  Berrios, maybe gone too.  The rest on our roster, unworthy of discussion.

We have a rookie, who had a piss poor year, in Wilson, and we're looking today at having very little to help him at the skill positions.

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

So......how do we do the most we can to support Wilson, the KEY to this franchises immediate future?

I would offer up that drafting WR at BOTH #4 and #10 might be one way to really kick this Offense, and Wilson, into gear.

Ignoring trade downs (just for now), we could likely get the top 2 rated WR's in this draft class, and (I'd hope) cement WR as a strength for years to come.

Lets consider, and for giggles say we draft Garrett Wilson (an amazing route runner comps. to DC's McLaurin) and Drake London (a big, powerful WR, the best contested ball/possession guy in this class).

That would give us Davis/Moore/Wilson/London as our 4 WR set.  There is no universe wher ethat group should be a weakness, or that Wilson should not be 100% supported at WR with that group.

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

Is there any argument that this is the way to go for this franchise, to take a huge step towards making the Jets (and Wilson) an Offensive team with real skill players around Wilson?

Thoughts.

Again, to be clear, I’m not agreeing with you. 

But I’m agreeing with you.  

If we address some holes in FA, we like  one of the good edge players and a TE at the top of round 2, taking 2 WRs in round 1 while bold is something I would totally do. Any 3 of Wilson London Burks and I’m good. Better than good. 

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While I do agree we could use 2 receivers, I don't think they go about it by using #4 and & #10 for this simple reason: the receivers at the top of this draft class are not sure fire guys. If this was the 2020 draft or 2021 draft, I would say go for it. 

In those drafts, it was clear you had at least a couple top level talents. Jeudy/Ceedee (nobody knew about Jefferson at that point) and Chase/Waddle/Smith. You knew all these guys would be elite level prospects.

I don't think there is 1 guys in this draft at WR that is universally looked at as an elite level prospect. I think it's more likely the Jets take one guy in the first, and one guy later on in the draft. Alternatively, maybe bring in additional help via FA or trade. But I only see 1 WR max in the first round.

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i dont hate it. 

the only problem i have is when i look at 1st rd picks especially high ones i expect them to be good enough to get a 2nd contract from us. if both work out with Moore thats 3 guys looking at big contracts and i dont see being able to keep all 3.

same reason, well one of the many reasons i dont want to draft OL for the 3rd time. we are not paying 3 of them, maybe even 2 of them big money. 

again, i dont hate it, better than OL at 4. but i might want to spread the wealth. plenty of positions we ignored in the last few years in rd 1.

 

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

.....I think you can find WR talent deeper into draft.....

Can we?

Like our previous successes in our last two decades of Offensive troubles, Denzel Mims, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, Devin Smith, Jalen Saunders, Shaquille Evans,  Stephen Hill, etc., etc., etc.?

We think mid-level FA's and third-tier draft mid-rounders are really stud #1's in hiding. 

And it never, ever seems to works out.  

 

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3 minutes ago, doitny said:

the only problem i have is when i look at 1st rd picks especially high ones i expect them to be good enough to get a 2nd contract from us. if both work out with Moore thats 3 guys looking at big contracts and i dont see being able to keep all 3.

What a horrible, horrible problem to have, wouldn't it be?  :D

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4 and 10 may be out of the box (although I would be better than fine with it), if we can move out of 4 to mid teens and grab 2 WRs I think it would be a home run.

It's an offensive league and nothing is telling Zach we've got his back more than a combo of Wilson/London/Burks after taking Moore last year.  QBs make the weapons but he needs some talent to play with.  

And extra pick or 2, there are EDGE rushers in RD 2, TEs in Round 2 and 3, Olineman in Rounds 2-3-4--all depends on what we do in FA--S, CB, LB?

Can't say how excited I would be to grab 2 WRs in Round 1.  A statement play and a show of support and going all in on Wilson.

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Alot of folks keep repeating "WR in FA".

Who is this WR?  Who, in the real world where the elite, Adams and Robinson types, simply are not coming here.  They don;t want to since they have better options, and we can't afford them at the price they go for.

So who are these solution FA's?  More Cole's and Davis's, #2's or #3/4's we'll press into #1 and #2 service?

And are you all presuming Moore will stay healthy all of 2022?  What on earth makes you think that given his health this year?

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Can we?

Like our previous successes in our last two decades of Offensive troubles, Denzel Mims, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, Devin Smith, Jalen Saunders, Shaquille Evans,  Stephen Hill, etc., etc., etc.?

We think mid-level FA's and third-tier draft mid-rounders are really stud #1's in hiding. 

And it never, ever seems to works out.  

 

Meh, I dont put drafting woes of other GM's on JD and I dont think this post accurately portrays the Jets drafting of WR's.  Sure, they've had misses, just like every other team in the NFL but the best WR's in franchise history were not 1st round picks, outside of Al Toon.  Maynard, Coles, Cotchery, Cherbet, Walker, or more recently, though short lived Enunwa and Kerley, were taken outside of the first round. Robby Anderson was a UDFA.

Decker and Marshall worked out as FA's.  Crowder has been our leading receiver for the team since he arrived.  And for as much sh*t as Davis takes around here, he was clearly Zach's favorite target. Berrios was also a FA.  So, your 3 leading WR's this year, were FA's. Cole too.

And while Mims had a weird season last year, not sure why but he was very promising in short usage during his rookie season so I dont really understand what happened there but, I think Elijah Moore is going to be very good, so 1 bad, 1 good in the 2nd round, drafting for 2 totally different systems.  Personally, I can live with it.  And who knows, I'm not holding my breath but maybe the light goes on for Mims.

By no means am I saying the Jets are some WR land of milk and honey, but I think this idea, this year, isnt the best use of resources for a team as desperate for talent as the Jets.  

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Alot of folks keep repeating "WR in FA".

Who is this WR?  Who, in the real world where the elite, Adams and Robinson types, simply are not coming here.  They don;t want to since they have better options, and we can't afford them at the price they go for.

So who are these solution FA's?  More Cole's and Davis's, #2's or #3/4's we'll press into #1 and #2 service?

And are you all presuming Moore will stay healthy all of 2022?  What on earth makes you think that given his health this year?

Agree with this.....best way to get a WR, TE any position, is to draft him. And develop him.

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Plenty of examples of lower round guys turning into top players in the NFL, however we do pick at #4 and #10. So while WR is a big need, I only see that at #10 possibly and even more likely if we trade down. Make no mistake, for next year we need 2 WR's and 2 TE's on this roster that aren't on this team today.

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16 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Davis, Moore, Berrios, Garrett Wilson and Trey McBride  are fine.  Youd be going full matt millen if you took a receiver at 4 and 10.  You never go full matt millen.

no going full Matt Millen is drafting OL 3 years in a row. or any position 3 years in a row.

i know Matt did that with WRs but its the same thing. 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Alot of folks keep repeating "WR in FA".

Who is this WR?  Who, in the real world where the elite, Adams and Robinson types, simply are not coming here.  They don;t want to since they have better options, and we can't afford them at the price they go for.

So who are these solution FA's?  More Cole's and Davis's, #2's or #3/4's we'll press into #1 and #2 service?

And are you all presuming Moore will stay healthy all of 2022?  What on earth makes you think that given his health this year?

I think what you're missing here is the consequences of missing on 2 top 10 WR draft picks is damn near a poison pill for this regime.    Everyone goes if they miss.  Everyone.  Whereas the damage inflicted for missing on a FA isnt anywhere near as severe to the long-term success of the team.  And none of this years WR class is a cant miss, hence why nobody really has a WR going in the top 10.  Maybe if Jamison Williams didnt get hurt, there would be one but he did and therefore, the WR's draft positioning is a total wild card, at least right now it is but I dont know what happens between now and then that changes the situation. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I think what you're missing here is the consequences of missing on 2 top 10 WR draft picks is damn near a poison pill for this regime.    Everyone goes if they miss.  Everyone.

If this Jets team is not a Wilson-led, winning, Offense-driven, playoff team in a year or two, they're all gone regardless.

Going 6-11 but saying "at least we improved to 20th in Team Defense" will not save them.

And why is missing an issue with WR's, but not Edges or Safeties or TE's?

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Whereas the damage inflicted for missing on a FA isnt anywhere near as severe to the long-term success of the team.

Depends on what you pay them, and how many year's you're willing to field a loser team staffed with these FA's who fail.

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

And none of this years WR class is a cant miss, hence why nobody really has a WR going in the top 10.

A better argument, but this draft class as a whole keeps getting referred to as "weak", even at positions with some talent and depth.  Was listening to DC radio this morning, had a PFF guy on, who basically said no one at the top of this draft would be at the top of last year's draft.

We can't change that, JD got the picks he did and got them for THIS draft.  What we can do is make the most of it.  I'll be honest, I think both Wilson and London are closer to sure thing than guys like Mims ever were.  By a long shot.

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

We're not signing one of the elite WR's, for many reasons stated elsewhere, but be assured, we are not signing Adams or Robinson or those kind of guys.  

I get that we’re not getting Adams, but Robinson is probably on the table. I think getting a proven NFL caliber starter (if not a true #1) will be a priority before the draft. Could be free agency or a trade. Two rookies paired with a second year QB and WR feels like a lot of uncertainty. 

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Yes, this would come at a cost, no edge at #4.  We'd have to go edge (perhaps) at the top of the 2nd, and maybe TE with the other 2nd.  D would suffer, and maybe have to be filled in via cheaper FA's.

TE has to be in play on day two and, again, after probably finding a starting caliber one in free agency. Two WRs and a TE in the first four picks seems unlikely. A WR and TE in free agency, then a first round WR and day two TE, would be adequate for me. The key is the TE position. They had nothing there last year, and what seems for quite a while, adding two 6’3+”, 250+lb dudes to catch passes in traffic would go a long way and take a ton of pressure off the WRs. 
 
I still want to see Berrios resigned, and I’m not too upset about the $9M/year rumor. I get that the Jets suck, too, but this team is probably the best situation for Berrios. He’s best friends with the QB and the coaching staff is looking for ways to include him. I think back to Brad Smith leaving for greener pastures only to se his career fizzle away. Then you look at a guy like Wayne Chrebet, who’s still revered in Jetland. Berrios would continue to have a nice career here and probably a nice post NFL career, too, if he wants one. 

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

We don’t really need a free agent receiver if we bring back Barrios. 
 

Draft Pickens in round two and Ruckert with our first third. 
 

Moore

Davis

Barrios

Pickens

Mims (ya never know…) 

 

Ruckert 

So we're the 11th ranked WR and 3rd ranked TE away from being good on Offense? 

You have far more faith in these guys, and their health, than I do.  That group looks alot like the group we had this year, with our 28th/26th ranked Offense, apart from perhaps Ruckert.

P.S. Be honest, do you favor Ruckert because he's a Long Island kid? :-k

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