If the Jets sign UFA WR John Ross...

[docdhc]

2 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

A mediocre corner, an ok slot receiver and an ok scat back after 2.5 offseasons -- that's your big list of accomplishments?

Would you fire him now and start over?

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Largely because he had to completely tear down the mess the worst GM in NFL history made over the prior 5 years.

I fully agree we need to see wins this year.  But taking Joe Douglas' W-L record in a vacuum like it means something makes little sense.  

I put the greatest part of all these loses on the front office and the CS but it's  still early. Despite that they have yet to show any promise. This draft is JD's SB. 

[PepPep]

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Saleh and joe have never lost a single playoff game. So there!

I just realized someone made a similar joke my bad

[slimjasi]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It takes zero balls to take back to back Safeties to start a draft.  Of course those 2 are going to end up good players.  They're Box Safeties.  At least Douglas had the stones to try to take a LT, WR, FS and EDGE with some athleticism.  And Bryce Hall will go down as a better player than anyone in that 2017 class, Adams included.  Adams has been a f**king embarrassment in Seattle.

Mike Maccagnan was the worst GM in NFL history, and its indisputable.

I would like to nominate Gettleman for the top spot for drafting a running back #2 overall in the modern NFL and just generally being terrible,  but I can’t really argue with Mac daddy 

Mac was really bad 
 

Hackenberg was probably the worst draft pick of all time 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

The song sung by every hopeful fan who hopes this time it'll be different.....

Also, interestingly, the song sung by every political partisan when we have a regime change.

It's always the last guys fault, right up till the current guy becomes the new last guy, and the cycle begins again.

Just saying others have said this before doesn’t make it wrong.

 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, docdhc said:

Would you fire him now and start over?

Don’t feed the troll

[Maynard13]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Bryce Hall, Elijah Moore, Vera-Tucker and Michael Carter are better than anything the prior 2 regimes brought in.  You're out of your mind.  

You forgot to add @T0mShane’s favorite player: Zach Wilson ?

[jNYC1]

“I don’t know why Joe Douglas hasn’t delivered a winning product yet.  Taking over a team devoid of talent - especially at impact positions, with bad contracts/dead money, and no franchise QB is a problem that should have been solved after the first two “full” off-seasons… and no competent GM would ever have a disappointing draft - it doesn’t happen.”

If you or any of your loved ones are suffering from these delusional takes above seek help immediately!
 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, rangerous said:

i agree that douglas' 2020 picks haven't shown as much as they should have but at the same time 2020 was a completely weird year and there is every reason to believe that players like mims, zuniga, davis, perine can turn it around.  and, of course only becton can stop the rumor mill about his seemingly lack of effort.  i'd like to know just what the average hit rate there is in the nfl draft.

as for john ross, the guy is fast but can he catch the ball?

100%.  His first ever draft, he cant meet with players and he's drafting for one of the worst Head Coaches of all time trying to salvage a player I'm sure he knew was a bust.  Not exactly the best situation for a first time GM but I also have to laugh at how fans look at that draft w/ hindsight.  It was largely applauded around here and by the draft pundit media pukes.  You had your typical everything the Jets do sucks peeps, who are right 95% of the time and maybe are this time but while there were some who preferred Wirfs to Becton, or thought we should have taken a WR and not kept trading back, the Becton/Mims combo was celebrated and both showed promise as rookies.  Then they took a freaky RAS safety who is a good not great player, and freaky RAS pass rusher who cant stay healthy in a smart spot, a RB  who looked just fine last year in spot duty and honestly not sure why he hasnt taken on a bigger role.  And finding a starting Corner in the 5th round is a huge success.  And he found a punter. 

If Becton comes around and Hall continues to play well and Davis continues to be a solid player - it's a successful draft by every measure.  If Mims and/or Perine gives you something combined w/ that then it suddenly becomes, a very good draft.   Honestly, I'm hopeful.  I think Becton shuts a lot of people up.  Mims finally has full healthy offseason and I just got a feeling he wont be useless this year.  And if those 2 things happen, again, suddenly 2020 isnt a disaster everyone makes out to be. 

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, varjet said:

To me, one way of evaluating a draft is to look at the players picked after the players we did, and look at what the result of trades were.

You can always argue fit, etc., but passing on a player like Wirfs for an oversized, overweight guy like Becton who is going to end up at RT anyway is just inexcusable.  And since when do you draft safeties based on athleticism when they need to track the ball and tackle people.  In this 2022 draft, I don't see anyone talking about safeties like Ashtyn Davis-there are alot of great players who actually know how to play safety.  Davis is maybe a 7th round pick in the 2022 draft.  

If you look at the Darron Lee draft, the 10-15 players picked after him were not great.  The whole league blew that draft-players picked on metrics ended up bad players.  When teams looked at the tape more for players in the second round, they got better players (Deion Jones, Cody Whitehair, but not Hackenburg (whoops)).

But in 2020 JD relied on the old Jets scouts without much input for the Gase CS (and when they did, it was bad (Perine, Morgan).  Mims was a Mac/Idzik/Tannenbaum pick, like Stephen Hill and Devin Smith.  In 2021, it would appear that Saleh and LaFleur were the dominant factors in the drafting.  That is what Tony P implied.  What are the scouts actually doing?

Looked at that way, picking Adams over two HOF-caliber QBs won’t be looked upon too kindly either.

Wirfs was a far better pick in hindsight; his job on the field - where Becton has missed too much time to everyone’s aggravation - has also been twice as easy. But after 1 season few were crying that we took Becton, even if they still liked Wirfs better.

The difference wasn’t that magnified, considering one was playing RT for a QB who gets the ball out in 2.3 seconds and has the most elite, experienced pocket presence; the other was playing LT for a QB who regularly held the ball for 3+ seconds and just as important, when he did just stands still there like a dumb animal. 

Everyone’s upset over Becton’s 2nd season, though. All of us. 

[Dwight Englewood]

17 hours ago, docdhc said:

Would you fire him now and start over?

No that will be happening next January

[Dwight Englewood]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Looked at that way, picking Adams over two HOF-caliber QBs won’t be looked upon too kindly either.

Wirfs was a far better pick in hindsight; his job on the field - where Becton has missed too much time to everyone’s aggravation - has also been twice as easy. But after 1 season few were crying that we took Becton, even if they still liked Wirfs better.

The difference wasn’t that magnified, considering one was playing RT for a QB who gets the ball out in 2.3 seconds and has the most elite, experienced pocket presence; the other was playing LT for a QB who regularly held the ball for 3+ seconds and just as important, when he did just stands still there like a dumb animal. 

Everyone’s upset over Becton’s 2nd season, though. All of us. 

Wirfs is a Right Tackle who plays with a QB who throws the ball in 2 seconds.  Becton was way better as a rookie.  Missed last season due to injury.  Jury is still out on him

 

It really is amazing how every excuse in the book is being made for Zach, who has shown little to nothing, but Becton who was arguably the best Rookie Tackle oh lets give up on him 

[Jetsfan80]

10 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I would like to nominate Gettleman for the top spot for drafting a running back #2 overall in the modern NFL and just generally being terrible,  but I can’t really argue with Mac daddy 

Mac was really bad 
 

Hackenberg was probably the worst draft pick of all time 

Here's how bad Maccagnan was:  Even as terrible as he was at drafting, the contracts and free agent signings he doled out were far worse.  That's why he gets the top spot.

I'll give you two words that really sum up the Mike Maccagnan era:  Quincy Enunwa.  That contract was a mind-boggling instance of GM incompetence.  Dude was coming off NECK SURGERY and Maccagnan gave him a contract with GUARANTEES FOR INJURY, and big ones too.  Overall, $20.3M of his $36M deal was fully guaranteed.  Holy.  F*ck. 

When Enunwa was cut, the Jets suffered $11.9M in dead money in 2020 and another $4.1M in dead money in 2021.  Find me a dumber contract than the one Maccagnan signed Enunwa to.  Especially when you consider Enunwa would have gotten nothing close to the money he got here on the open market.

The Jets were among the tops in the league in dead money every year from 2018-2021 because of the awful Maccagnan contracts.  And more will be coming whenever the CJ Mosley era ends (unless we get lucky and he retires first).  Even as recently as 2021, these players (all Macc failures) were costing the Jets the following in dead money:

• Trumaine Johnson:  $8M
• Sam Darnold:  $5M
• Le'Veon Bell:  $4M
• Quincy Enunwa:  $3.6M
• Kelechi Osemele:  $3.1M
• Chris Herndon:  $1.6M
• Henry Anderson:  $1.3M

The only people who like Mike Maccagnan are agents of bad/overrated/oft injured players, and @Pac.  Meanwhile, I can't imagine how many gray hairs these contracts caused Jason at OTC or @Sperm Edwards.

And people wonder why its taking Douglas so long to turn the ship around....

[section314]

20 hours ago, Origen said:

What's Ross' story?  He's bounced around a lot?  I remember him coming out of U. of Washington and he was a speedy guy but other than changing teams and being hurt I don't know what he's done.  PLUS, I could have some other guys in mind other than him anyway.

I think it's pretty simple.....he's a WR who can't catch.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

I think it's pretty simple.....he's a WR who can't catch.

That seems important.  Like hiring an accountant who doesn't understand tax law or how compounding interest works.  @southparkcpa

[Origen]

Yeah that would take away some of the intrigue.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's how bad Maccagnan was:  Even as terrible as he was at drafting, the contracts and free agent signings he doled out were far worse.  That's why he gets the top spot.

I'll give you two words that really sum up the Mike Maccagnan era:  Quincy Enunwa.  That contract was a mind-boggling instance of GM incompetence.  Dude was coming off NECK SURGERY and Maccagnan gave him a contract with GUARANTEES FOR INJURY, and big ones too.  Overall, $20.3M of his $36M deal was fully guaranteed.  Holy.  F*ck. 

When Enunwa was cut, the Jets suffered $11.9M in dead money in 2020 and another $4.1M in dead money in 2021.  Find me a dumber contract than the one Maccagnan signed Enunwa to.  Especially when you consider Enunwa would have gotten nothing close to the money he got here on the open market.

The Jets were among the tops in the league in dead money every year from 2018-2021 because of the awful Maccagnan contracts.  And more will be coming whenever the CJ Mosley era ends (unless we get lucky and he retires first).  Even as recently as 2021, these players (all Macc failures) were costing the Jets the following in dead money:

• Trumaine Johnson:  $8M
• Sam Darnold:  $5M
• Le'Veon Bell:  $4M
• Quincy Enunwa:  $3.6M
• Kelechi Osemele:  $3.1M
• Chris Herndon:  $1.6M
• Henry Anderson:  $1.3M

The only people who like Mike Maccagnan are agents of bad/overrated/oft injured players, and @Pac.  Meanwhile, I can't imagine how many gray hairs these contracts caused Jason at OTC or @Sperm Edwards.

And people wonder why its taking Douglas so long to turn the ship around....

very true about mac.  and with a lot of these guys the jets were bidding against themselves.  i don't recall if trumaine had any suitors.  bell didn't.  it was a mistake to think enunwa could play again after his first neck injury.

[Joe Jets fan]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:12 PM, Dwight Englewood said:

Same nonsense excuse Macagnan apologists made for him the first 2 years he was here.  "You can't expect him to win he has to rebuild from Idzik's 2013 draft."  

 

At some point Bill Parcells' old saying has to apply "you are what your record says you are"

 

Douglas has done nothing so far to indicate he's even an average evaluator of talent.  In fact, he might be worse than the previous 2 GM's the Jets had which is incredible.

????????

[WestCoastMole]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:09 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

As discussed in another thread with @JiFapono, the Jets will have, at one time or another, owned 4 of the top 9 picks in the 2017 draft class.  Make it happen, JD! 

 

2017 Draft

1. DE Myles Garrett
2. QB Mitchell Trubisky
3. DE Solomon Thomas
4. RB Leonard Fournette
5. WR Corey Davis
6. SS Jamal Adams
7. WR Mike Williams
8. RB Christian McCaffrey
9. WR John Ross

And to think Davis is getting 12 Million this year while Ross is getting Lunch Money.

[jago]

joe d utilized macs prez and sam picks like bioweapons to destroy two other franchises and pick up multiple high picks to boot.

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, jago said:

joe d utilized macs prez and sam picks like bioweapons to destroy two other franchises and pick up multiple high picks to boot.

JD's ability to get something useful out of Macc's pathetic failures is reason enough to say he was a significant upgrade at GM.  

Anyone arguing with a straight face that Douglas is as bad or worse than that pathetic loser needs to look at the list of dead money guys I listed in my prior post that we were still paying for 2 years after Macc's firing, then get back to me.  Or don't and just EAD.

[Hex]

On 4/22/2022 at 1:11 PM, MykePM said:

It's like you weren't even here in 2015.  

He wasn't

[Hex]

5 hours ago, Dwight Englewood said:

Wirfs is a Right Tackle who plays with a QB who throws the ball in 2 seconds.  Becton was way better as a rookie.  Missed last season due to injury.  Jury is still out on him

 

It really is amazing how every excuse in the book is being made for Zach, who has shown little to nothing, but Becton who was arguably the best Rookie Tackle oh lets give up on him 

Well when an OT who has trouble keeping his weight in check gets hurt with a 4-8 week schedule and ends up being out for more than 6 months, people start to worry. It's much easier to point out the good things about somebody's play if they are actually playing.

It doesn't matter how bad a player is, if they are there to play at gameday they are already going to play better than the one that isn't there. That's why more people complain about Becton.

[Jet_Engine1]

30 minutes ago, Hex said:

He wasn't

Yeah, sure Phil wasn't...

[adb280z]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:08 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Largely because he had to completely tear down the mess the worst GM in NFL history made over the prior 5 years.

I fully agree we need to see wins this year.  But taking Joe Douglas' W-L record in a vacuum like it means something makes little sense.  

Maccagnan was awful, but not Dave Gettleman awful.

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, adb280z said:

Maccagnan was awful, but not Dave Gettleman awful.

Read this post of mine (below) again and then reassess.  I agree that Gettleman deserves a spot in the 3-5 worst GMs of all time conversation, but only Macc gets the top spot.

 

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's how bad Maccagnan was:  Even as terrible as he was at drafting, the contracts and free agent signings he doled out were far worse.  That's why he gets the top spot.

I'll give you two words that really sum up the Mike Maccagnan era:  Quincy Enunwa.  That contract was a mind-boggling instance of GM incompetence.  Dude was coming off NECK SURGERY and Maccagnan gave him a contract with GUARANTEES FOR INJURY, and big ones too.  Overall, $20.3M of his $36M deal was fully guaranteed.  Holy.  F*ck. 

When Enunwa was cut, the Jets suffered $11.9M in dead money in 2020 and another $4.1M in dead money in 2021.  Find me a dumber contract than the one Maccagnan signed Enunwa to.  Especially when you consider Enunwa would have gotten nothing close to the money he got here on the open market.

The Jets were among the tops in the league in dead money every year from 2018-2021 because of the awful Maccagnan contracts.  And more will be coming whenever the CJ Mosley era ends (unless we get lucky and he retires first).  Even as recently as 2021, these players (all Macc failures) were costing the Jets the following in dead money:

• Trumaine Johnson:  $8M
• Sam Darnold:  $5M
• Le'Veon Bell:  $4M
• Quincy Enunwa:  $3.6M
• Kelechi Osemele:  $3.1M
• Chris Herndon:  $1.6M
• Henry Anderson:  $1.3M

The only people who like Mike Maccagnan are agents of bad/overrated/oft injured players, and @Pac.  Meanwhile, I can't imagine how many gray hairs these contracts caused Jason at OTC or @Sperm Edwards.

And people wonder why its taking Douglas so long to turn the ship around....