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Be honest; you really think Zach Wilson is going make a difference?


Paradis
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I believe the main issue or problem is the oline!!!! If you give the QB time to throw that is no problem at all. But the oline couldn't give Flacco time to throw at all!!! Since Becton went down the Jets have tried to cover the loss with Fant and Brown. Brown is out with a shoulder and Fant is almost done for the season with a knee injury. The only bright spot is rookie Mitchell has stepped up and has done a good job so far. But its not enough to protect Wilson or any QB !!!!

The other issue is the WRs, so far it beginning to look like Corey Davis, doesn't belong at all!!! I question what is he their for? He drops the ball constantly and disappears during game when they need him the most!!!!

Zack Wilson can save the season if the oline get fixed!!!! Once that is fixed then he will be a factor for this team!!!!

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I believe he has talent but he's not going to stay healthy back there. The underwhelming musical chairs at left tackle will send him back to IR and the same thing will like happen to Mike White who isn't as mobile and appears as brittle as Wilson. The best thing about Flacco so far is he can take a pounding back there.

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'll give your a serious take here; YES, I think Zach can make a difference assuming he's anywhere close to the player advertised when drafted.  Which is what makes this question so challenging.  Anybody's guess is as good as mine about who he'll be this year.  I can easily jive with either side of the debate, he is what he is, or now lets see him in another year w/ weaponz but in the hypothetical scenario, he's 80% of advertised?  Then yes, he could come in and make a difference.   Which I'm sure would lead to the question how?   So let me share...

We're all frustrated with the D, myself included, hell, I've seen enough and I'm ready to clean house but that said, while there will be some bang'em, dust up, defensive games in this league, the best teams in the league dictate the game on offense.  The Jets cant do that with Joe Flacco because he's pure garbage, like just utter trash and shouldnt be playing Football anymore.  He's is currently completing 48% of his passes on 3rd down.  He's 20 for 41 on the season.  And it's not better on 1st down which is supposed to be the high percentage down, he's completing 53% of his passes.  But 3rd down is killing this offense, his in ability to feel pressure, move, not get stripped sacked, etc. is a crutch on the offense.  It's asinine how bad he is when he has to hold the all over 2.5 seconds.  He goes from 63% comp to 48% comp and it speaks to his inability to create or doing anything that requires motion. 

Some other aspects of the game that are atrocious and Zach should hypothetically help; the Jets have run 10 play actions the entire season and they have run 1, RPO, which is shocking but I guess they ran it once with Flacco.   His 1st quarter stats are abysmal.  Flacco in the 1st quarter is completing, 45% of his passes for 95 yards and zero TD's.  RedZone; while Joe has actually thrown almost all of his TD's from the RedZone, he's currently completing 39% of his passes in the RZ.  These are the statistics of a completely ineffective QB.  In a league driven by offense, it's impossible to sustain any create any type of momentum when you're that crippled at QB and it definitely has a trickle down effect on the D.  They havent had a lead all season, playing from behind, if Zach can help them answer more regularly, occasionally giving the D a lead to work with, yes, I think he can technically make a difference.  

 

 

Good Fair Assessment 

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A bigger unknown with Zach Wilson is, in the short term, how mobile is he going to be coming off the knee injury. Is he going to be very concsious about avoiding reinjury? If yes, we may not see him run the ball much and be less willing to scramble around. This would be a big change in his usual game play. 

My feelings about Wilson aside, the defense is going to have to bring their A-game to keep the score close so the Jets can rely on the running game. If Pittsburgh starts scoring early and the Jets have Wilson attempt more than, say, 25 throws, I think its going to be ugly for him.  

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5 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

How much in “garbage time”?  Actually close to HALF that.

The Cleveland game had lots of “garbage time” yards too.  Overcoming a statistical disadvantage so pronounced, it was, I don’t like to say it, but that doesn’t mean it is not True….a MASSIVE FLUKE.

Zach did the same thing last year in garbage time, no?

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I watched a lot of the Giants game last night.   That was a huge talent mismatch.   Jones ability to step up and run and not put the ball on the ground actually kept the Giants in the game until the talent over time overwhlemed them.

I think the Jets have a lot more talent than the Giants on both sides of the ball.  We should have we are 3 years into our rebuild not 1.  Dallas would have blown us out of the building with Flacco at QB.   Zach's mobility is going to be a huge plus.  The big caveat is turnovers.   If he doesn't panic and if he can hold on to the ball when he does get hit he upgrades the O dramatically.  Those are two big ifs.  

The good thing is Pittsburgh isn't Dallas.  Watt being out is a huge plus for the Jets.  If Zach can settle down this is a very winnable game where he's mobility should make a huge difference.

The real question is did Zach shut himself down when he was ready to play of did the Jets?  Is he mentally tough or is he soft?  He has the physical tools to improve the O dramatically.  Does he have the head and can the Jets coaching staff put him in position.   I think those are legitimate concerns but TBD...

Looking forward to a big step forward and a Jets win.  

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33 minutes ago, maury77 said:

A bigger unknown with Zach Wilson is, in the short term, how mobile is he going to be coming off the knee injury. Is he going to be very concsious about avoiding reinjury? If yes, we may not see him run the ball much and be less willing to scramble around. This would be a big change in his usual game play. 

My feelings about Wilson aside, the defense is going to have to bring their A-game to keep the score close so the Jets can rely on the running game. If Pittsburgh starts scoring early and the Jets have Wilson attempt more than, say, 25 throws, I think its going to be ugly for him.  

It would be the most Jetsy thing in the world, to have the corpse of Joe Flacco throwing 50+ passes a game, only to then have your supposed franchise QB healthy and available and then, you decide to have a nice healthy balanced offense.

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10 hours ago, Paradis said:

Lets say he's even 70% as good as you'd hope he was gonna be. 80%... I don't care.

The Jets don't show up looking like a team with--

  • A game plan
  • a strategy for their opponent
  • leveraging strengths/weaknesses
  • Imposing their will
  • Have sense of identity
  • making adjustments

We haven't had this much talent on the team since 2009... but you wouldn't know it.  CS doesn't have a clue who they are/want to be. 

that's not going to change. Either you're a HC and you bring that to table, or you don't. 


I don’t think much changes but I’m slightly hopeful Zach shows us something. I’m not ready to scout qb’s already this month  I wasn’t a Zach fan in draft, but I’m hopeful  

You mean having Elijah Moore run go routes half the game isn’t a good plan?   Get that kid using his skills, running routes and breaking ankles. 
moore and Wilson can be a good wr duo if they are having plays called that highlight their skills, route running and allows for them to RAC. Not saying we have a hall of fame pair but they both have route running ability. hoping for a poor man’s Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne 

 

O-line is a problem  - can Brown get back and solidify that group don’t know what the F is in the water. JETS always seem to be the most injury ridden team even before actual games. 

Our Safeties are dog sh!t. I don’t know what’s up but I wanna see less Joyner.  I don’t care if it’s Davis but somebody has to be better. 

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17 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

It would be the most Jetsy thing in the world, to have the corpse of Joe Flacco throwing 50+ passes a game, only to then have your supposed franchise QB healthy and available and then, you decide to have a nice healthy balanced offense.

You mean “run-heavy”. Z baby plays and we run 70% of the time, shades of the Sanchize years. 

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

The question is:

Do you really think Zach Wilson will make a difference?

We're not debating whether he has more potential/moxy... If you suddenly put a healthy Justin Herbert out there in Green & White, you're gonna see a bump in the stats dept. But really... are the Jets suddenly going to look like an NFL franchise who expects to win? The class of the AFCE?... Frustrate opposing OCs? Move with a sense of purpose for 4 quarters? 

Dictate a game? ....One game??... EVER??????

 

We've all seen this movie before. 

The class of the AFC E? No

A playoff team? No

As I indicated in my previous post, I do think we have the chance to be a good NFL offense, depending on Wilson.

It’s hard to have any confidence in the defense. We have a mediocre front 7 in a defense that requires an above average one and we shoot ourselves in the foot by rotating our best players out of the lineup. 

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27 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

It would be the most Jetsy thing in the world, to have the corpse of Joe Flacco throwing 50+ passes a game, only to then have your supposed franchise QB healthy and available and then, you decide to have a nice healthy balanced offense.

What’ll happen, if he fails as well, is he’ll likely fail with fewer attempts (as you’re alluding to) so many will mindlessly drone on about “at least Flacco averaged 300 yards per game.” As though a weak 5.8 yards/attempt gets better by doing it more. But total yards, yo. 

Up in the air if it’s that or the more Jetsy thing being if they’d timed it to put Wilson back in after week 2. Then in week 3 instead of a washed up Flacco facepalming for our entertainment, they put in Wilson with better but still poor results: getting sole blame for the sacks, the “hero ball” deep throw into tight coverage on 3rd & 4, the O’Brien concussion-throws that leave his receivers exposed if they dare catch it, the etc. that (while it would’ve been unprovable) would’ve happened with Flacco anyway.

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What’ll happen, if he fails as well, is he’ll likely fail with fewer attempts (as you’re alluding to) so many will mindlessly drone on about “at least Flacco averaged 300 yards per game.” As though a weak 5.8 yards/attempt gets better by doing it more. But total yards, yo. 

Up in the air if it’s that or the more Jetsy thing being if they’d timed it to put Wilson back in after week 2. Then in week 3 instead of a washed up Flacco facepalming for our entertainment, they put in Wilson with better but still poor results: getting sole blame for the sacks, the “hero ball” deep throw into tight coverage on 3rd & 4, the O’Brien concussion-throws that leave his receivers exposed if they dare catch it, the etc. that (while it would’ve been unprovable) would’ve happened with Flacco anyway.

So truthful it hurts.

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21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What’ll happen, if he fails as well, is he’ll likely fail with fewer attempts (as you’re alluding to) so many will mindlessly drone on about “at least Flacco averaged 300 yards per game.” As though a weak 5.8 yards/attempt gets better by doing it more. But total yards, yo. 

This has bene one of the funnier things to watch on this board. 

People who rightly pointed out how bad Zach Wilson's yards/attempt were last season turning around and hyping up Flacco because of 300+ yard games on 50+ pass attempts. LOL

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

He’s going to have a negative impact. While its true that Flacco is a statue, he at least sticks in the pocket and gets the ball out. Wilson, by comparison, is allergic to the pocket and tries to bail at every opportunity, which makes him a sack magnet. One of the reasons for Fant’s success last year was that Zach flushes himself to the right at the first sign of pressure, which is why, by far, the bulk of the sacks the Jets gave up last year were off the right side. Three weeks from now, everyone is going to be complaining about Max Mitchell “getting Zach killed.” Don’t buy it. 

^^ When you believe your own bullsh*t so, so much. 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I'll give you a serious take here; YES, I think Zach can make a difference assuming he's anywhere close to the player advertised when drafted.  Which is what makes this question so challenging.  Anybody's guess is as good as mine about who he'll be this year.  I can easily jive with either side of the debate, he is what he is, or now lets see him in another year w/ weaponz but in the hypothetical scenario, he's 80% of advertised?  Then yes, he could come in and make a difference.   Which I'm sure would lead to the question how?   So let me share...

We're all frustrated with the D, myself included, hell, I've seen enough and I'm ready to clean house but that said, while there will be some bang'em, dust up, defensive games in this league, the best teams in the league dictate the game on offense.  The Jets cant do that with Joe Flacco because he's pure garbage, like just utter trash and shouldnt be playing Football anymore.  He's is currently completing 48% of his passes on 3rd down.  He's 20 for 41 on the season.  And it's not better on 1st down which is supposed to be the high percentage down, he's completing 53% of his passes.  But 3rd down is killing this offense, his in ability to feel pressure, move, not get stripped sacked, etc. is a crutch on the offense.  It's asinine how bad he is when he has to hold the all over 2.5 seconds.  He goes from 63% comp to 48% comp and it speaks to his inability to create or doing anything that requires motion. 

Some other aspects of the game that are atrocious and Zach should hypothetically help; the Jets have run 10 play actions the entire season and they have run 1, RPO, which is shocking but I guess they ran it once with Flacco.   His 1st quarter stats are abysmal.  Flacco in the 1st quarter is completing, 45% of his passes for 95 yards and zero TD's.  RedZone; while Joe has actually thrown almost all of his TD's from the RedZone, he's currently completing 39% of his passes in the RZ.  These are the statistics of a completely ineffective QB.  In a league driven by offense, it's impossible to sustain or create any type of momentum when you're that crippled at QB and it definitely has a trickle down effect on the D.  They havent had a lead all season, playing from behind, if Zach can help them answer more regularly, occasionally giving the D a lead to work with, yes, I think he can technically make a difference.  

 

 

I enjoy serious take JiF

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44 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What’ll happen, if he fails as well, is he’ll likely fail with fewer attempts (as you’re alluding to) so many will mindlessly drone on about “at least Flacco averaged 300 yards per game.” As though a weak 5.8 yards/attempt gets better by doing it more. But total yards, yo. 

Up in the air if it’s that or the more Jetsy thing being if they’d timed it to put Wilson back in after week 2. Then in week 3 instead of a washed up Flacco facepalming for our entertainment, they put in Wilson with better but still poor results: getting sole blame for the sacks, the “hero ball” deep throw into tight coverage on 3rd & 4, the O’Brien concussion-throws that leave his receivers exposed if they dare catch it, the etc. that (while it would’ve been unprovable) would’ve happened with Flacco anyway.

Yeah, if there’s an area where Zach Wilson historically shines, it’s yards per attempt. 

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3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

So truthful it hurts.

In a sense, Flacco has served his purpose:

1. The volume of attempts led to showing that the newest addition to the WR corps isn’t another over-hyped, over-drafted bust who only looked like a WR1 against college talent and/or combine stopwatches.

2. Was starting long enough to show why no one’s going to be yelling for the coaches to put Flacco back in, no matter what Wilson does. (They’ll be yelling for White or Streveler, lol, but at least it reduces the # of imaginary improvements from 3 to 2).

Basically, he took pressure off Wilson by showing there was little hope with the next guy up anyway.

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12 hours ago, Paradis said:

Lets say he's even 70% as good as you'd hope he was gonna be. 80%... I don't care.

The Jets don't show up looking like a team with--

  • A game plan
  • a strategy for their opponent
  • leveraging strengths/weaknesses
  • Imposing their will
  • Have sense of identity
  • making adjustments

We haven't had this much talent on the team since 2009... but you wouldn't know it.  CS doesn't have a clue who they are/want to be. 

that's not going to change. Either you're a HC and you bring that to table, or you don't. 

Well, none of these external influences really have to do with whether or not Zach will make a difference. Which I guess is your point? 

But I will say this. 

Flacco has shown that he can still be effective when he has a pocket. Not just protection but a clean pocket- he can no longer throw accurately on the run. 

Zach can also be effective with a clean pocket. But he is also mobile and has pretty good accuracy on the run. He can make plays with his legs to make positive yardage, even if its not huge chunks. 

Odds are our O-line will struggle in pass pro. this week and we will need all the help we can get with a guy who can roll out, escape the pocket, make plays with his legs, extend plays. THAT guys is Zach Wilson. That guys is not Flacco. 

So in that sense, YES, I think Zach will make a difference. But we will see. Zach hasn't played a meaningful game in almost a year. It's really tough to gauge. 

*Sidenote: Some will say- well Flacco is the better game manager, the better veteran decision maker. Well, I would argue that in the three games so far, with the Browns game being the exception, we saw some ghastly INTs from him. Some poor decisions. Strips that were near fumbles (and an actual fumble) that QBs probably shouldn't allow to happen. Meanwhile, Z. Wilson ended last season on a streak of 5 games with zero INTs.

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, if there’s an area where Zach Wilson historically shines, it’s yards per attempt. 

That’s your takeaway? The obvious point was that if Wilson also only manages a pathetic sub-6 ypa it wouldn’t be better if the team just eureka’d that they needed more cowbell with one but less with the other. Only an impossible sequence of events, withe the Browns out-Jets’ing the Jets, is the reason this team isn’t 0-3.

Clearly you think what the team needed last year was for Wilson to average 50+ attempts per game. It’s a bold thought.

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3 hours ago, AL047 said:

I believe the main issue or problem is the oline!!!! If you give the QB time to throw that is no problem at all. But the oline couldn't give Flacco time to throw at all!!! Since Becton went down the Jets have tried to cover the loss with Fant and Brown. Brown is out with a shoulder and Fant is almost done for the season with a knee injury. The only bright spot is rookie Mitchell has stepped up and has done a good job so far. But its not enough to protect Wilson or any QB !!!!

The other issue is the WRs, so far it beginning to look like Corey Davis, doesn't belong at all!!! I question what is he their for? He drops the ball constantly and disappears during game when they need him the most!!!!

Zack Wilson can save the season if the oline get fixed!!!! Once that is fixed then he will be a factor for this team!!!!

Not that I'm trying to defend Davis , but he's had 1 drop this season and that was on a questionably bad throw from Flacco. I get it he hasn't lived up to his FA contract but I feel he's getting a bad rap. 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That’s your takeaway? The obvious point was that if Wilson also only manages a pathetic sub-6 ypa it wouldn’t be better if the team just eureka’d that they needed more cowbell with one but less with the other. Only an impossible sequence of events, withe the Browns out-Jets’ing the Jets, is the reason this team isn’t 0-3.

Clearly you think what the team needed last year was for Wilson to average 50+ attempts per game. It’s a bold thought.

Not sure it's worth bothering with him at this point.  He's become a meme.

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Beware the head coach candidates whose only success as a DC came when there were 1-2 healthy pro bowlers/all-pros at all 3 levels on his D; success that evaporated to Jets levels when those studs weren’t all healthy at the same time. Particularly one whose true expertise is coaching the DL…when he’s been spotted, what was it, four recent DL 1st rounders (3 of them in the top 10)?

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Let’s be real

The short term and long term with this team both look hopeless

Short term because Saleh has no clue how to use his players or run a football operation

And long term because the Jets are hard core committed to both the fraud HC and a QB who has shown a pronounced lack of ability to be successful running anything other than college RPO concepts 

There is a good talent base on this team, but without the HC and QB, the Beamer has no engine — just an empty shell with some nice shiny parts and hood ornament that’s forever stuck in neutral 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That’s your takeaway? The obvious point was that if Wilson also only manages a pathetic sub-6 ypa it wouldn’t be better if the team just eureka’d that they needed more cowbell with one but less with the other. Only an impossible sequence of events, withe the Browns out-Jets’ing the Jets, is the reason this team isn’t 0-3.

Clearly you think what the team needed last year was for Wilson to average 50+ attempts per game. It’s a bold thought.

My takeaway is that there’s a reason they’re going to limit Zach Wilson pass attempts and that reason is that more Zach Wilson pass attempts will result in a lot more depressing Zach Wilson plays. I get that toads like @JiFapono want to pre-insulate themselves when Zach is throwing up 145 yard passing games all season, but I think the fact that Wilson not being given the opportunity to put 300 yards on the board (despite the low YPA) is a legitimate red flag. Wilson has to produce TDs and points. The team averaged 16 ppg when he started last year and 25+ when he didn’t. Mostly, I took offense to your post because it supported @JiFapono. **** that guy.

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