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White got time.


Jim dean
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This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

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59 minutes ago, fullblast said:

Zach was about as non pro-ready as it gets for a first round pick. Horrific decision to just hand him the starting job day 1.

That is all true but the only part that made it okay is the team was bad last year. They were bad all around. So it was a learn the system, see what you have in these kids kind of year.

The Joe Douglas said okay, here is a draft of all drafts and a few free agents signings to fill in missing pieces.

That changed the landscape overnight.

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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

I feel like you just made the case for the other side of the argument lol.

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14 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I feel like you just made the case for the other side of the argument lol.

Yea there just aren’t that many guys who ball right away and some of the best QBs ever sat for a considerable amount of time 

Guys like Marino, Herbert, and Burrow are rare 

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23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

It’s interesting in a lot of ways. Manning, Burrow, Stafford, Newton, and Lawrence were number one overall picks. Other top picks haven’t fared as well. Ryan was the first QB taken in his class.

Then you have the guys who went later. Carr was a small school guy who tanked - I honestly don’t know how much his brother’s failures were related. He’s worked out great for where he was taken but hasn’t been elite. Flacco and Roethlisberger went to elite franchises that supported them from the jump - defense run game etc. Flacco had basically the one Super Bowl run on his rookie deal but was never that noteworthy statistically.

Tannehill worked out but not for the team that drafted him and is in one of those supported by a run game situations.

That leaves Herbert who wasn’t supposed to start, there was an injury, and he’s been great. Not an awesome team but they’ve got skill talent there for sure and had it from day one, I think that helps in a similar way to the run game or defense.

Missing are a lot of the quarterbacks who got drafted high and played and haven’t worked out. And there are a lot of them. The Jets alone have had three drafted in the top five who played right away over that stretch.

I don’t think a binary “don’t play quarterbacks early” rule works. I do think that quarterbacks fall into two buckets. Transcendent guys who can overcome poor circumstances, and guys who need support early in their career. The transcendent guys aren’t available every year and basically exclusively go first overall. If you’re not taking a guy first overall, odds are he needs support. That can take many forms: run game and defense, high end pass catchers to give him some easy stuff to go to, time to develop. But by and large those guys who get taken second, third, fourth, fifth overall on terrible teams who get tossed out there get chewed up and spit out by the league.

I genuinely believe it’s better to build a good ecosystem to develop a quarterback than it is to take a talented guy early for the sake of it. Which is why whether they sit him or not I’d feel better about the Jets drafting and developing a quarterback now with the run game, defense, Garrett Wilson, tight ends, etc than I have for a while. Doesn’t always work (Mark Sanchez) but I think it gives you a better shot of letting the guy grow into playing in the league. Lots of high end guys started off more game manager-y and then gradually grew into being really productive.

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yea there just aren’t that many guys who ball right away and some of the best QBs ever sat for a considerable amount of time 

Guys like Marino, Herbert, and Burrow are rare 

I agree. These kids are getting rushed and thrown out of the league.

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31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

Yeah I’m lost trying to grasp what your point is.  
let’s think about what you said. 
 

25 years time sample 

32 starting Qb’s in the league for each year

25 x 32=  800 starting Qb’s positions were available in your time sample. 
 

you list 12 Qb’s

so, is the point being made by you, that success for rookie Qb’s is more common now, or is it actually less common?  
 

So, what is the point you’re trying to make?

I feel a counterpoint of probably just as many Qb’s  that had success a many years after their rookie season could be made, and to the larger majority, that the successful FQB is a small percentage, which everyone already knows  


Semper Fi. 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Certainly stands up. Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes all got time behind a vet. Geno and White got  the scenic route. But both making most of it this year. Nice to see. 

Add to the list: heineke, Jimmy g, Lamar, Goff, hurts… 

all these guys watched a few games before getting tagged the starter with success long term. 

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3 hours ago, Jim dean said:

Mike White got years of experience  all rookie QB's used to get.Now they are thrown to the wolves because money rules.vvery few QB's get that opportunity.all should..pro ball is so different.

Mike White has been on an absolute merry go round as an NFL QB.  This kid is absolutely resilient.  He has persevered through numerous ups and downs, literally.  While this may lead some to question his talent, it obviously has strengthened his character.  He has that never give up mentality.  At first, I wasn't confident White could be the starting QB for the Jets long term. He had that great game against the Bengals but MC played such a huge role in it that it seemed to take some shine of the luster. But the game last Sunday against the Bears (even though they suck and have a garbage defense) he really showed me something. He spread the ball around to 10 different WR's.  He made some amazing throws in the tiniest of windows - and in the rain! He made his reads quickly and efficiently.  He stepped up into the pocket like - sorry - Brady - and was safe with the ball.  To me, this game was way more impressive than the game vs. the Bengals.  I started a thread to add a song to celebrate White's performance. One poster added - I'm A Believer. Could not have said it any better.

 

Dallas Cowboys

The Dallas Cowboys selected White in the fifth round (171st overall) of the 2018 NFL Draft. White was the eighth quarterback drafted in 2018.[19] He became the second Western Kentucky quarterback to be drafted into the NFL and surpassed Brandon Doughty (2016) as the highest drafted quarterback from Western Kentucky.

On May 12, 2018, the Dallas Cowboys signed White to a four-year, $2.67 million contract that included a signing bonus of $217,553.[21] He made the team as the third-string quarterback.

In 2019, he was given the opportunity to compete during the preseason for the backup job behind Dak Prescott. On August 31, White was waived after the team decided to carry just two quarterbacks on the regular season roster. The Cowboys opted not to add him to the practice squad, choosing instead to sign rookie quarterback Clayton Thorson.

New York Jets

On September 25, 2019, White was signed to the New York Jets practice squad. He signed a reserve/future contract with the Jets on December 30, 2019.[22]

On September 5, 2020, White was waived by the Jets and signed to the practice squad the next day.[23][24] He was promoted to the active roster on September 12, 2020.[25] He was waived on October 1, 2020,[26] and re-signed to the practice squad four days later.[27] He was elevated to the active roster on October 10 and October 17 for the team's weeks 5 and 6 games against the Arizona Cardinals and Miami Dolphins, and reverted to the practice squad after each game.[28][29] He was promoted to the active roster on November 9.[30] He was waived again on November 10,[31] and re-signed to the practice squad again the next day.[32] He was promoted to the active roster again on November 21.[33] He was waived again on November 23,[34] and re-signed to the practice squad again the next day.[35] He signed a reserve/future contract with the Jets on January 4, 2021.[36]

After an injury to starting quarterback Zach Wilson early in the 2nd quarter of a Week 7 matchup against the New England Patriots, White made his regular season debut. He immediately moved the Jets into the endzone with a touchdown pass to Corey Davis. Early in the 3rd quarter, he led another touchdown drive, but the Jets missed the two point conversion which would have made it a two score game. From there, the Patriots ran away with it as White finished the game with 202 passing yards, one touchdown, and 2 interceptions in the 54–13 loss.[37] With Wilson still injured, he made his first career start against the Cincinnati Bengals in Week 8. White briefly left due to a head injury but returned, finishing the game completing 37 of 45 passes for 405 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions as the Jets won 34–31. He was named the AFC Offensive Player of the Week for his performance.[38] He became the first Jets quarterback since Vinny Testaverde in 2000 to throw for 400+ yards and the first quarterback in the NFL to do so in his first career start since Cam Newton.[39]

On March 16, 2022, White re-signed with the Jets for one year and $2.54 million.[40]

White was announced as the Jets Week 12 starter against the Chicago Bears after Zach Wilson was benched on November 23, 2022.[41] White completed 22 of 28 passes for 315 yards, with three touchdowns and no interceptions, in the Jets' 31-10 win.

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2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

The coaches are all about accountability.  For the players.   The coaches are perfect. 
 

Remember the 1st season with “Zach gets the full playbook”.  I could go on, but don’t be surprised to Zach succeed later.  

The 2032 Seahawks say hey Zach, what's up?  :)

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

Perfect ! This is not so much that Zach wasn't ready, this is more  along the lines of Zach being terrified to play the QB position in the NFL. He's afraid of the pocket and worries more about not getting hit then hitting his WR's with passes. This fear will not go away. He just does not have the right make up for the NFL and I'm pretty sure that's not going to change.

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This argument gets tiresome as a defense for sh*tty QBs.

These are QB's in the last 25 years who saw live bullets within the first 3 weeks of their rookie seasons, and it worked out fine for all of them:

  • Peyton Manning
  • Joe Burrow
  • Ben Roethlisberger
  • Matthew Stafford
  • Justin Herbert
  • Matt Ryan
  • Cam Newton
  • Joe Flacco
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Derek Carr
  • Trevor Lawrence

And Josh Allen only sat the first 5 weeks of his rookie year.  Tua sat the first 6.

And before you attempt to negate the examples above that occurred a while ago, stop, and think about what you're doing.  The further back you go, the harder it was to play QB in this league.  It doesn't help your case.

While most, almost all of them played poorly early in their careers and took a while to become a finished product. 
You’re killing whatever anti Zach point you’re trying to make 80
 

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2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

That’s actually not very many though. Only 11 in 25 years? Maybe there are others?

i haven’t looked it up or thought too much about it, but my gut suspects that there are more guys who sat first and had success than there are guys who played right away and had success.

There aren’t that many QBs drafted high who coaches also decide to play right away.  That’s a relatively new phenomenon.  Doesn’t mean there haven’t been plenty of success stories out of that relatively small sample.  

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2 hours ago, fastmover said:

Yeah I’m lost trying to grasp what your point is.  
let’s think about what you said. 
 

25 years time sample 

32 starting Qb’s in the league for each year

25 x 32=  800 starting Qb’s positions were available in your time sample. 
 

you list 12 Qb’s

so, is the point being made by you, that success for rookie Qb’s is more common now, or is it actually less common?  
 

So, what is the point you’re trying to make?

I feel a counterpoint of probably just as many Qb’s  that had success a many years after their rookie season could be made, and to the larger majority, that the successful FQB is a small percentage, which everyone already knows  


Semper Fi. 


My point was that whether you play the QB right away or sit him, it largely doesn’t matter much.  And it certainly isn’t a reason why Wilson would have failed or not.  

There are many QBs who sit and fail and many who play right away and fail.  The few QBs who succeed are a mixed bag of sit for 1+ seasons, sit a few weeks or play immediately.  There’s nothing to suggest any meaningful conclusions about how long a QB should sit.  I’d be glad to do a deeper dive into the QB history if necessary.  Just didn’t think it should be because it’s rather obvious in the data.  

It isn’t an excuse for Zach Wilson’s failure or a primary reason for Mike White’s strong play.  It’s just a way for people to try to feel better about the situation for some strange reason.  

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There aren’t that many QBs drafted high who coaches also decide to play right away.  That’s a relatively new phenomenon.  Doesn’t mean there haven’t been plenty of success stories out of that relatively small sample.  
The Jets seem to always do it ... Even though we know exactly how it will end.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

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