White to Start against Buf

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Zero ?  Reaching.  

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, then.

8 of the last 10 qbs to win the SB were super starrs

1 of them was a minor name that had a career year as a passer (foles)

1 sucked.  manning with world class smarts who is called an de facto OC on the field and made GASE look good, but he had... caugh...  "zero" arm,

My point is still solid as concreat.

MFW is all yours... again.  Love him.  Savor him.  Crown him. 

Your point is silly.  Not one single person has disputed that it is better to have a great QB.  You can ******* cough all you like about Manning, but his arm sucked and the majority of observers thought that team was better off with Brock Osweiler.  Let that sink in.  Brock Osweiler.  Foles did not have a "career year."  In fact 2017 was statistically one of his worst regular seasons.  That team made the playoffs on the back of Carson Wentz.  Is he another of your stud QBs?  Joe Flacco is now a super star?  Flacco was tremendous in the post season that year, but I think he kind of taints your list.  

Four of your "super star" seasons were Brady.  One was Russell Wilson who was one, but it shows that is not a lifetime gig.  Nobody is saying to ride Mike White at the expense of any other options, but writing him off and moving on in the middle of a playoff run when he is played very well is moronic.  I honestly believe that there is more of a chance that Mike White is the next Tom Brady than the Jets draft the next Mahomes, but I won't stop trying for both.

[football guy]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

The weak arm takes never made sense. I think a lot of people - casual fans and media analysts alike - use arm strength and arm talent interchangeably, but they're not the same thing. Arm talent is one of those phrases that everyone defines slightly differently, but Greg Cosell (phenomenal listen) kind of defines it as the inherent, intangible, natural ability to make every type of throw regardless of base platform or arm angle. Arm strength is one of many factors. Release types, release points, throw velocity, touch, ball placement, trajectory are some of the buzz words here. 

Not going to be a perfect analogy, but the best I can relate it to is a golf shot. I suck at golf, but my drive are flat/straight every time (yet I frequently tend to aim incorrectly lol) and I can hit it 275-315 consistently. If I try to slow down my swing chances are I screw it up. I just have to rip it. My brother is an excellent golfer, and while I may out-drive him a lot, that's not what matters to him. He can rip it and hit 300+ if he wants to, but he also can hit a draw/fade/slice on command, he can change his swing velocity and stance, he can change the spin on the ball, and he purposely hits each shot differently based on the hole, situation, and result he's seeking. A lot of it came naturally to him, and with coaching he learned how to really control it and execute more consistently. I couldn't dream of doing those things no matter how much coaching you put me through

[THE BARON]

47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your point is silly.  Not one single person has disputed that it is better to have a great QB.  You can ******* cough all you like about Manning, but his arm sucked and the majority of observers thought that team was better off with Brock Osweiler.  Let that sink in.  Brock Osweiler.  Foles did not have a "career year."  In fact 2017 was statistically one of his worst regular seasons.  That team made the playoffs on the back of Carson Wentz.  Is he another of your stud QBs?  Joe Flacco is now a super star?  Flacco was tremendous in the post season that year, but I think he kind of taints your list.  

Four of your "super star" seasons were Brady.  One was Russell Wilson who was one, but it showing that is not a lifetime gig.  Nobody is saying to ride Mike White at the expense of any other options, but writing him off and moving on in the middle of a playoff run when he is played very well is moronic.  I honestly believe that there is more of a chance that Mike White is the next Tom Brady as the Jets draft the next Mahomes, but I won't stop trying for both.

Well... I can't write Mike White off in the middle of a playoff run.  I'm not the GM or HC or owner.  And, even if I was, there are no other good options.  You cant just dial 1-800-QUATERBACK.  

My points are not silly.  They are well founded, QED.

I am saying Mike White is not a good option to consider as a starter for 2023.  He is the best option NOW.

Again... Enjoy the run to the playoffs as I will.  

And... For you, even more significantly.

Enjoy having MFW as your QB.  Cherish him.  Worship him.  Adore him. 

Now, on to BEEFALO

[carlito1171]

20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imo, the more substantive item. They’ve put Zach Wilson on ice. 

They have no choice LOL, the locker room has spoken, and with this story getting national attention the sharks are circling in the water. Their best bet is to rebuild him from the ground up in the background while he's on a cheap rookie deal to give him another shot next year at competing for the job or perhaps trade him at a later time....which is what they seem to be doing...

[JohnnyLV]

20 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

 

Media BEGGING Saleh to admit Wilson is a flop. 

White has played better than Zach. Period. But let's not act like he was all world in the Minny game. His first half was very very Zach like in case anyone did not notice. He rallied in the second half but still was not super accurate on a lot of throws. He totally should be starting against Buffalo but the jury is very much still out on him.

[choon328]

9 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

The Vikes in the 2nd half went into almost a prevent type defense which was a big mistake on their part , since it was only a two score lead.

Again White made some very good throws ,I'm not bashing him or his arm ,I'm just worried if that type of game is sustainable for him with better Defenses. 

Not lazy at all , he has a good arm its just not on Wilson's level that's just pure fact . 

They didn't switch into anything that's their base defense. They give up tons of yards and buckle down in the red zone. They've been doing it all year

[choon328]

9 hours ago, THE BARON said:

If you say so... He's all yours.  

Buh bye then

[choon328]

9 hours ago, THE BARON said:

If you didn't see what I did, I can't fault you for that. I'm sure there are a pile of times he gets to his third or fourth read.  There were also multiple occasions that he missed a chance to make a difference in the Vikes game.  

There are reasons he wound up as a third string QB and there are reasons the Jets CS had no choice but to start him. Right now, he has been putting up yardage against weak defenses.  You'll see more of what I can when he has to work against a good defense.  

He's an excellent guy to have on the bench, but he's not a good choice as a starting QB for the reasons I gave you.  You call bs, I say you are compelled to come rescue your man crush. 

He's all yours.  

I'm not sure why you keep saying this. From what I gather you're saying you aren't rooting for the starting QB of the Jets.  You are no longer a Jets fan. Awesome. Peace the **** out then.

[freestater]

8 hours ago, THE BARON said:

My point is still solid as concreat

Indead

[THE BARON]

56 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I'm not sure why you keep saying this. From what I gather you're saying you aren't rooting for the starting QB of the Jets.  You are no longer a Jets fan. Awesome. Peace the **** out then.

When are you going to return your mentality to the 6th grade ?  

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

Buh bye then

I assume you are on the way back to class after recess.

[OCCH23]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

White has played better than Zach. Period. But let's not act like he was all world in the Minny game. His first half was very very Zach like in case anyone did not notice. He rallied in the second half but still was not super accurate on a lot of throws. He totally should be starting against Buffalo but the jury is very much still out on him.

It was the equivalent of Zach's first half against the Bills.

In other words, Zach's best first half is now being used as a comparison for White's worst . . .

 

[Jetsplayer21]

8 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Well... I can't write Mike White off in the middle of a playoff run.  I'm not the GM or HC or owner.  And, even if I was, there are no other good options.  You cant just dial 1-800-QUATERBACK.  

My points are not silly.  They are well founded, QED.

I am saying Mike White is not a good option to consider as a starter for 2023.  He is the best option NOW.

Again... Enjoy the run to the playoffs as I will.  

And... For you, even more significantly.

Enjoy having MFW as your QB.  Cherish him.  Worship him.  Adore him. 

Now, on to BEEFALO

Jets have tried so hard to find a “ franchise “ qb. Look at all the top picks we wasted on qb busts. Darnold, and the 3 2nd rounders we wasted to move up to get him. And of course the wasted zach Wilson pick. Horrible pick. Instead of wasting all those top picks, imagine if we had used them on OL, TE, etc. We would be 10-2 likely with Mike white with added top of draft talent. Think we would be 9-3 anyway if Zach Wilson hadn’t played both games vs pats he played so horribly in. We are long way to decide about qb in 2023. It’s definitely not Zach Wilson. Maybe he earns the number 2 if he works hard with scout team rest of yr. 

[THE BARON]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Jets have tried so hard to find a “ franchise “ qb. Look at all the top picks we wasted on qb busts. Darnold, and the 3 2nd rounders we wasted to move up to get him. And of course the wasted zach Wilson pick. Horrible pick. Instead of wasting all those top picks, imagine if we had used them on OL, TE, etc. We would be 10-2 likely with Mike white with added top of draft talent. Think we would be 9-3 anyway if Zach Wilson hadn’t played both games vs pats he played so horribly in. We are long way to decide about qb in 2023. It’s definitely not Zach Wilson. Maybe he earns the number 2 if he works hard with scout team rest of yr. 

Agree fully.  Fans and media pundits can talk, speculate and prognosticate, but they gotta play the games.  Thousands of moving parts.  Anything can happen.  That old quote "Sports is everything drama should be".  For now, I just hope we get playoffs...

[TheMo]

12 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Zero ?  Reaching.  

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, then.

8 of the last 10 qbs to win the SB were super starrs

1 of them was a minor name that had a career year as a passer (foles)

1 sucked.  manning with world class smarts who is called an de facto OC on the field and made GASE look good, but he had... caugh...  "zero" arm,

My point is still solid as concreat.

MFW is all yours... again.  Love him.  Savor him.  Crown him. 

I mean realistically he was absolutely awful statistically. 59.8%, 9TDs-17 INT 2249yd That season. Either way I think you and I at least see eye to eye that MW can be afforded the opportunity if he can achieve Alex Smith level production or it seems like he can get there with seasoning, I think you keep him long term. I don't think there is anything that fully procludes him from being great. Just a matter of putting it together. He's not some college QB that has a pop gun arm or something. 

[Integrity28]

Zach takes, “Sure, he has to be better, but you can see the potential.”

White takes, “He failed to be absolutely perfect, so I don’t see the big deal.”

No agendas here. Jets fans are so miserable they convince themselves it’s a Westeros winter in the middle of a heat wave.

[SuicidalSince98]

11 hours ago, football guy said:

The weak arm takes never made sense. I think a lot of people - casual fans and media analysts alike - use arm strength and arm talent interchangeably, but they're not the same thing. Arm talent is one of those phrases that everyone defines slightly differently, but Greg Cosell (phenomenal listen) kind of defines it as the inherent, intangible, natural ability to make every type of throw regardless of base platform or arm angle. Arm strength is one of many factors. Release types, release points, throw velocity, touch, ball placement, trajectory are some of the buzz words here. 

Not going to be a perfect analogy, but the best I can relate it to is a golf shot. I suck at golf, but my drive are flat/straight every time (yet I frequently tend to aim incorrectly lol) and I can hit it 275-315 consistently. If I try to slow down my swing chances are I screw it up. I just have to rip it. My brother is an excellent golfer, and while I may out-drive him a lot, that's not what matters to him. He can rip it and hit 300+ if he wants to, but he also can hit a draw/fade/slice on command, he can change his swing velocity and stance, he can change the spin on the ball, and he purposely hits each shot differently based on the hole, situation, and result he's seeking. A lot of it came naturally to him, and with coaching he learned how to really control it and execute more consistently. I couldn't dream of doing those things no matter how much coaching you put me through

The most underrated ability in golf is the skill of getting the ball in the hole. The game is called golf, not golf swing. Mike white is a football player, he has an innate ability to move the offense and score points. That’s what matters. 

[football guy]

53 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

The most underrated ability in golf is the skill of getting the ball in the hole. The game is called golf, not golf swing. Mike white is a football player, he has an innate ability to move the offense and score points. That’s what matters. 

We’ve played 2 of the worst pass defenses in the NFL, our scheme is #good, and Mike White’s game with Mike LaFleur’s scheme allows him to identify the “hot” pre-snap often against zone defense. The offense moved 486 yards on 83 plays last week; Mike White threw 57 times. That’s extremely inefficient. We were 5-for-21 on 3rd/4th downs. There were 2 turnovers, with another 3 turnover worthy plays. Forced to settle for 5 FGs. 

By no means am I here saying that Mike White played poorly- the stats don’t tell the whole story. Having been said, we can be honest and admit that his first half was not good- he was inaccurate with his ball placement and it stalled drives. His second half had some really nice highlight moments and he made some big boy throws in catch up mode. Still, there were throws missed by inches or feet and we lost the game. Lost. The. Game. We did not win, the ball did not go into the hole, we lost, and it was because our offense missed a ton of layup opportunities due to inconsistent, inefficient play. The red zone play-calling was also poor because we didn’t adjust; unlike playing in between the 20s where defensive zones are more spread out making it easier for LaFleur to attack the soft spots, the defense becomes condensed with less room which means less space for a guy to be wide open. Should’ve gotten more creative to get guys open in the end zone. 

[football guy]

38 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Zach takes, “Sure, he has to be better, but you can see the potential. It’s extremely important for the Jets to do everything in their power to ensure they develop this second year, 23 year old player, because the talent is rare and finding sustainable success in this league often requires a QB with rare traits. If he’s not it, hopefully the administration is given a free pass to find the guy who can be that for this team, but you better be absolutely, positively sure about it before you eject. 

White takes, “He failed to be absolutely perfect, so I don’t see the big deal. Given White’s age, experience, and limitations, he needs to show that he can consistently hit guys in stride with precision and anticipation if he’s going to be able to win games against difficult defenses in the short-term, or be considered as a potential starter long-term, because quarterbacks with limited traits and anticipation skills need to be absolutely perfect in this league to have sustainable success. 

No agendas here. Jets fans are so miserable they convince themselves it’s a Westeros winter in the middle of a heat wave.

Fixed it for you

[Maynard13]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:33 PM, T0mShane said:

Imo, the more substantive item. They’ve put Zach Wilson on ice. 

Incorrect. They will just let him freeze on the bench in Buffalo without a jacket.

[Smashmouth]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:30 PM, kevinc855 said:

Just officially announced by Coach Saleh as Monday Coach PC. 

LOL Saleh needed to announce this ? \

Its sh*t like this that scares me . 

[Smashmouth]

15 hours ago, choon328 said:

In the first half the Vikings did what you suggested other teams will do by taking away the quick passing. In the 2nd half the Jets came out with a more vertical game plan and he competed 68% of his passes for 243 yds in the 2nd half.

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm. It's all over his scouting reports. He made some really tight window throws to the sideline and over the middle for 20-25 yards in the air in the 2nd half that showed off his arm strength and accuracy. That arm strength narrative is lazy. 

People claiming Mike White has a weak arm basically have no ******* Idea what they are talking about and are trying to forward a narrative that simply does not exist.

These are Zach fans trying to find some opening to attack a player and hope their bullsh*t sticks to the wall. They also fail to realize that Zach sucked at the position simply because he just plain sucked no one was making sh*t up about Zach. It bothers them this was pointed out over and over not to attack Zach but because it was the very simple truth. So in response they try to attack White with no real reason other than he's just a better QB than the guy we all wanted to succeed but he Just didn't.

[Fantasy Island]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:30 PM, kevinc855 said:

Just officially announced by Coach Saleh as Monday Coach PC. 

Hallelujah!  Zach is the kiss of death.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The Zach die hards are hilarious 

I remember watching Jamarcus Russell and thinking he was the worst QB I’d ever seen

But as bad as he was, I don’t think he ever had the yips

From what I can recall, Jamarcus was never the equivalent of Rick Vaughn from Major League on WR screens and easy tosses to the flat

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:43 PM, Beerfish said:

"When they found Wilson in the meat truck it was just a matter of time for the other frauds, Sanchez, Pennington, they left Favre alone because he was fighting some co-mingling funds beef down South and was only seen as a  1 year mercenary anyway who didn't know too much, Geno Smith had taken it on the hop out to the West Coast long ago so he didn't know nothing and was also left alone.....but anyone else getting in the way of Mike F..ing White becoming the New Gunslinger of the NY Jets was gonna have a problem"......(Ray Liotta RIP voice)

[Biggs]

17 hours ago, johnnysd said:

White has played better than Zach. Period. But let's not act like he was all world in the Minny game. His first half was very very Zach like in case anyone did not notice. He rallied in the second half but still was not super accurate on a lot of throws. He totally should be starting against Buffalo but the jury is very much still out on him.

I'm pretty sure the Jury is going to acquit him.

[SuicidalSince98]

6 hours ago, football guy said:

We’ve played 2 of the worst pass defenses in the NFL, our scheme is #good, and Mike White’s game with Mike LaFleur’s scheme allows him to identify the “hot” pre-snap often against zone defense. The offense moved 486 yards on 83 plays last week; Mike White threw 57 times. That’s extremely inefficient. We were 5-for-21 on 3rd/4th downs. There were 2 turnovers, with another 3 turnover worthy plays. Forced to settle for 5 FGs. 

By no means am I here saying that Mike White played poorly- the stats don’t tell the whole story. Having been said, we can be honest and admit that his first half was not good- he was inaccurate with his ball placement and it stalled drives. His second half had some really nice highlight moments and he made some big boy throws in catch up mode. Still, there were throws missed by inches or feet and we lost the game. Lost. The. Game. We did not win, the ball did not go into the hole, we lost, and it was because our offense missed a ton of layup opportunities due to inconsistent, inefficient play. The red zone play-calling was also poor because we didn’t adjust; unlike playing in between the 20s where defensive zones are more spread out making it easier for LaFleur to attack the soft spots, the defense becomes condensed with less room which means less space for a guy to be wide open. Should’ve gotten more creative to get guys open in the end zone. 

less “creativity” and more common sense in the red zone was needed 

mike white was far from perfect, but he did enough to score 40+ with competent red zone play calling 

[T0mShane]

22 hours ago, choon328 said:

I don't know where this weak arm strength started for White. Maybe bc he throws short and quick a lot but coming out of college he was knows to have a strong arm.

IMO, it’s a below-average arm. Brady has the median arm strength in football and White’s is softer than his. He can get the RPMs up every so often, but he needs his whole base and body to do it, which isn’t always available to him. This shows up in the red zone where he has to move a little bit and throw it into tight windows—he simply doesn’t have that arrow in the quiver. There was one play Cimini showed, late where White is rolling out a little bit and he has Mims open at the 2, but it would have been an all-arm throw across his body. It’s not really a knock on White—there are probably five QBs in football who could’ve made that throw—but it shows the difference between White and the Elite Guys(tm).

The Cimini play:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cl1unBIJbsI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[SuicidalSince98]

19 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your point is silly.  Not one single person has disputed that it is better to have a great QB.  You can ******* cough all you like about Manning, but his arm sucked and the majority of observers thought that team was better off with Brock Osweiler.  Let that sink in.  Brock Osweiler.  Foles did not have a "career year."  In fact 2017 was statistically one of his worst regular seasons.  That team made the playoffs on the back of Carson Wentz.  Is he another of your stud QBs?  Joe Flacco is now a super star?  Flacco was tremendous in the post season that year, but I think he kind of taints your list.  

Four of your "super star" seasons were Brady.  One was Russell Wilson who was one, but it shows that is not a lifetime gig.  Nobody is saying to ride Mike White at the expense of any other options, but writing him off and moving on in the middle of a playoff run when he is played very well is moronic.  I honestly believe that there is more of a chance that Mike White is the next Tom Brady than the Jets draft the next Mahomes, but I won't stop trying for both.

When Russell won he wasn’t a superstar 

[T0mShane]

19 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Well... I can't write Mike White off in the middle of a playoff run.  I'm not the GM or HC or owner.  And, even if I was, there are no other good options.  You cant just dial 1-800-QUATERBACK.  

My points are not silly.  They are well founded, QED.

I am saying Mike White is not a good option to consider as a starter for 2023.  He is the best option NOW.

Again... Enjoy the run to the playoffs as I will.  

And... For you, even more significantly.

Enjoy having MFW as your QB.  Cherish him.  Worship him.  Adore him. 

Now, on to BEEFALO

The issue here is that White is clearly the Jets best option in 22 and, unless they go hard after Lamar, he’s going to be their best option in 23, too. 

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

IMO, it’s a below-average arm. Brady has the median arm strength in football and White’s is softer than his. He can get the RPMs up every so often, but he needs his whole base and body to do it, which isn’t always available to him. This shows up in the red zone where he has to move a little bit and throw it into tight windows—he simply doesn’t have that arrow in the quiver. There was one play Cimini showed, late where White is rolling out a little bit and he has Mims open at the 2, but it would have been an all-arm throw across his body. It’s not really a knock on White—there are probably five QBs in football who could’ve made that throw—but it shows the difference between White and the Elite Guys(tm).

He has a Mac Jones arm. A lot has to go right to win with him playing a top 5 team. You saw it last year in the playoffs when that extra juice was needed it simply wasn’t there. Perfectly legit if not excellent up to that point but once you get to needing  the big time throw against a big time team odds aren’t in your favor . Might be something they can develop or learn to compensate for both being young but you  are spot on with that. Certainly good enough for right now. 

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The issue here is that White is clearly the Jets best option in 22 and, unless they go hard after Lamar, he’s going to be their best option in 23, too. 

Lamar? LaFleur would have to learn to be creative. Lamar would be Brady’s age before Mike would have it together. Personally it’s David Carr or Mike White next season. Jimmy G is toast and it looks like his back up  might be proving that this year. 

[Irish Jet]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cl1unBIJbsI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Mims doesn't exactly help White here either - I swear has the worst understanding of how to use space.

A few times in this game he finds himself in acres of space only to run himself back into the coverage. That's a play where you stop and wave your arms at the QB to throw you the ball. He's literally running away from the space and the QB lol. 

[choon328]

11 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I assume you are on the way back to class after recess.

I'm 41 and run a company,  you're probably 70 and need your depends to be changed soon

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

White takes, “He failed to be absolutely perfect, so I don’t see the big deal.”

 

Whose take is this?  I would be interested to see this said by anyone on this site.  I haven't seen a single person say Mike White was bad. Obviously I could have missed it and I would agree 100% that this isn't a reasonable way to look at the situation.

What I've noticed, is more like...

White take - "The Jets lost and it's everyone on the team's fault except Mike White"  

If you have anything at all negative to say about Mike White you're a troll and you're only saying it because you love Zach Wilson.  Honestly, it's silly.

Mike White had a good 2nd half Sunday...moved the ball well, brought the team back - made some really impressive key throws..  But had a tough day in the red zone - which ultimately cost the team the game.

It doesn't have to be all in or all out.  It's okay to have some perspective and objectivity.