Jets OL coach Keith Carter getting universally laughed at

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I'm not a fan and I hope he's not on the team next year. Although, I fear that he will be....due to Douglas' double down on his draft pick mentality.

He sucks, weak for his size, complainer, injury-prone, and oh yeah he sucks...

I think he’s gone, b/c now lord Aaron has stepped up and decreed that they need to excrete the inferior from the offense.  That clearly includes becton, and wilson, and I’d like to think that douglas knows he has one year left to demonstrate that he can evaluate talent on that side (even though garrett, breece and guys like tippman are his picks) and cobble together a functional offense.  And i do think he’s going to trade back from 10 b/c the tackle you take at 10 is inferior imo to a guy you can get at 18 + the guy you take with an extra 2nd round pick.  If that’s achievable. 

[K_O_Brien]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There’s been worse, but the difference is with this crew is that they started from zero because Maccagnan was so bad for so long.

As bare as the cupboard was after Maccagnan, if Douglas and Saleh were going to turn things around, it would have happened already.

If you're still not sure if you have the right GM and HC after 4 and 3 seasons respectively, it's time to move on. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Because one player criticized him? 😝 

You’re not paying attention if you think this is just a couple fringe players here and there.  He’s universally loathed.  

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

Between the coaches and players, there are like 70+ people. Not everyone is gonna like everyone.

That said, can anyone explain what it is about carter that is so amazing that he must be retained? He just oversaw the worst oline in history. Every run was seemingly a 1 yard halfback dive cause they couldn't block sh*t. They couldn't execute a screen pass. They got Rodgers killed because they used a stupid cut block in the first game and then never used it again because it's stupid to ask a 40 year old unathletic LT to do that. His players universally hate him. What are carter's redeeming qualities? I genuinely want a list...

Great golf partner to Bobby. 

[Jetpain]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Lewan’s major complaint about Carter was that he drove his OL so hard in practice that it caused that Tennessee OL to break down every year. I’m not sure that’s what occurred here, but obviously the Jets OL went to hell injury-wise, and Becton looked like a shell of himself at the end of the year. Conservatively, the Jets are going to need to sign two free agent OL this offseason, and they’ll be doing so with an OL coach who’s loathed by veterans and a turf field notorious to snapping tendons. Saleh is going to keep his buddy Carter because Carter got low-end fringe players like Jake Hanson up to speed at the end of the year while ignoring the fact that his big-ticket veterans all seem to hate him. 

Agree 100%, then add in trying to sign FA with the high likelihood that coach will be fired next year, you wont know who your next coach will be and you will need to learn a completely new system next year.   

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You’re not paying attention if you think this is just a couple fringe players here and there.  He’s universally loathed.  

It’s not the criticism you look for, it’s the lack of people coming out to debunk the criticisms in the days following that tells the story. As with the “Zach was reluctant to play” thing that had Zach fans all defensive, the only person who even tried to say it wasn’t *exactly* accurate was Saleh, and even that wasn’t an outright denial—“A player wouldn’t be here if he didn’t want to play (or some nonsense).” 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Siemian handled the rush better, but the line still gave up a ton of pressures. Agreed that Becton is a bitch, but Carter is a huge problem

I think it's just simpler, which you hit on earlier:

No one else worth a damn is going to come here anyway (in January).

• They effectively have two starter-worthy linemen under contract. One of them was just ok as a rookie, and the other has missed most of the season for the last two seasons running.
• Yeah the turf. Even if it's new turf used by plenty others now, the reputation of the prior one still lives on. Plus losing Rodgers on the 4th play - even if not purely due to this specific turf - didn't help on that front one bit (nor the weekly OL injuries that didn't end with MetLife's turf replacement). Perception is a real thing, and, while they'll still sign guys, it'll do the Jets no favors in attracting the talent they want most.
• Whether they are or aren't behind the scenes, it's hard for anyone to not figure at least a good chance Saleh a lame duck HC, and Douglas a lame duck GM.
• Even if Saleh/Douglas survive 2024 and get extensions, their OLC position still hasn't exactly been attractive from a job security standpoint. They'll have recently fired Pollack when Saleh was hired; then Benton after 2 seasons (2021-22; one year after turning Fant into a solid pass-blocking LT, when healthy); then Carter after 1 season (2023). 
• The Jets called Bill Callahan (I'm sure more correctly, his agent) before hiring Carter, and Callahan wouldn't even consider coming back here. Word gets around. If we know about it, you can bet his OLC peers (and their agents) know, too.

Realistically, who are they going to hire anyway? What OLC of any worth is going to take this job to take the call from lame duck Joe Douglas to then work under lame ducks Robert Saleh and Nate Hackett, to coach an OL that requires drafting or signing 3 starters, in a stadium and team situation that may scare away the top choice FAs?

The choices are Keith Carter or taking a shot in the dark on someone no one else wants to promote either.

[Adoni Beast]

31 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

As bare as the cupboard was after Maccagnan, if Douglas and Saleh were going to turn things around, it would have happened already.

If you're still not sure if you have the right GM and HC after 4 and 3 seasons respectively, it's time to move on. 

Completely agree and it isn't just wins and losses...its HOW we are losing (blowouts) + team identity (none) + team culture / morale (in the gutter the last 2 season).

The Lions were 9-8 last season and we really should have been 8-9 or 9-8 this year....but it wouldn't have felt the same at all. That team was obviously in sync, positive, and building toward something. We are none of those things.

[Warfish]

Becton sure does like to blame everyone else but himself for his low-quality career path so far.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Becton sure does like to blame everyone else but himself for his low-quality career path so far.

 

Is it confirmed that's his real account?

[dcJet]

This loser regime needs to be gone to reset our losing culture.

Regimes rarely survive a full rebuild.  A change is usually needed with fresh faces to purge the losing mentality.  (see Miami, Cle, Bengals....)

We'll get one after next year.

 

 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Is it confirmed that's his real account?

I'll get right on that:

[Jack Straw]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Becton sure does like to blame everyone else but himself for his low-quality career path so far.

 

It was somebody else who forced him to eat and balloon to 400 pounds, I tell you! It was the MetLife turn that forced his knee to explode 2x, and not the cheeseburger weight he was carrying! It was the Jets' medical stuff who bungled the surgery!

[nickfoshizal]

He’s the worst o line coach in the nfl and no it should absolutely not be hard to find a better one. 

[Adoni Beast]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

This is a bad look for us, organizationally.

Here's a good example of a "model franchise" having the BS drama that we do, but our history exacerbates the narrative...But kudos to Daboll for saying this isn't good enough and doing something about it!

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39276348/new-york-giants-wink-martindale-cursed-brian-daboll-firings

 

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Angered that the team was firing two of his closest lieutenants, New York Giants defensive coordinator Wink Martindale cursed out coach Brian Daboll during a meeting Monday, a source confirmed to ESPN.

The New York Post reported that Martindale "said his piece, got up, slammed the door and walked out of the building" after the Giants fired outside linebackers coach Drew Wilkins and defensive assistant Kevin Wilkins. Both had come over with Martindale from Baltimore, and Drew Wilkins was considered Martindale's right-hand man.

The rocky relationship between Daboll and Martindale is at the center of an impending split. It was reported in November that the two were in a "bad place."

 

A source said they expected Martindale to resign following Monday's incident. The Giants had still not heard from Martindale as of Tuesday evening. He returned to his home in Sarasota, Florida, on Tuesday afternoon.

 

The situation unfolded Monday, after Daboll and general manager Joe Schoen met the media for a joint season-ending news conference. It was there that they said their "expectation" was for Martindale and offensive coordinator Mike Kafka to return.

They had already fired special teams coordinator Thomas McGaughey and offensive line coach Bobby Johnson, but not the Wilkins brothers. And that was before they had even met with Martindale and Kafka to see if they wanted to return.

There had been rumblings both coordinators were unhappy throughout the season -- Martindale because of his relationship with Daboll, and Kafka because of the way he was minimized when Daboll became more involved running the offense. Kafka, like Martindale, has one year remaining on his contract.

The Post reported Daboll was adamant about getting rid of Drew Wilkins and, by association, Kevin Wilkins, because there "was a feeling in the building that Martindale and Drew Wilkins were creating their own fiefdom within the coaching staff, at times bypassing Daboll and believing they had to answer only to each other and, ultimately, ownership."

[Matt39]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s not the criticism you look for, it’s the lack of people coming out to debunk the criticisms in the days following that tells the story. As with the “Zach was reluctant to play” thing that had Zach fans all defensive, the only person who even tried to say it wasn’t *exactly* accurate was Saleh, and even that wasn’t an outright denial—“A player wouldn’t be here if he didn’t want to play (or some nonsense).” 

The nothing matters crew finds these things irrelevant. But the QB line relationship is crucial. Zach likely didn’t think it was his job to befriend the linemen (going back to Utah every bye week being one example). Judon annihilated him twice last year and no one came to his aid. Just an all around fail by the Jets bringing him here. Simien steps in and things suddenly start working at an NFL level.

Washingtons Oline famously despised RG3. Cousins comes in and things start working.

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Tony Pauline, January 2023

 

Just seeing nick wright annoys me 

[billo83]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 If Woody truly wants to win, he must send the message that if the HC will not hold his assistants accountable ownership will

Woody the clown meddles to make stupid decisions, he is incapable of making a smart decision.

[JetsFanatic]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The nothing matters crew finds these things irrelevant. But the QB line relationship is crucial. Zach likely didn’t think it was his job to befriend the linemen (going back to Utah every bye week being one example). Judon annihilated him twice last year and no one came to his aid. Just an all around fail by the Jets bringing him here. Simien steps in and things suddenly start working at an NFL level.

Washingtons Oline famously despised RG3. Cousins comes in and things start working.

If this were happening on the Jets we would be a clown show. However because it is the Giants the commentary is Daboll is exhibiting his authority.

In reality Daboll did the chicken $hit move of firing Martindale’s hand picked assistants hoping Martindale would resign instead of just firing Martindale and doing the dirty work himself.

[Jet2020]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

Well why would you want to fire yourself?...

Because there’s too much sh!t even for the janitors to cleanup. 

[T0mShane]

56 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think it's just simpler, which you hit on earlier:

No one else worth a damn is going to come here anyway (in January).

• They effectively have two starter-worthy linemen under contract. One of them was just ok as a rookie, and the other has missed most of the season for the last two seasons running.
• Yeah the turf. Even if it's new turf used by plenty others now, the reputation of the prior one still lives on. Plus losing Rodgers on the 4th play - even if not purely due to this specific turf - didn't help on that front one bit (nor the weekly OL injuries that didn't end with the turf replacement). Perception is a real thing, and, while they'll still sign guys, it'll do the Jets no favors in attracting the talent they want most.
• Whether they are or aren't behind the scenes, it's hard for anyone to not figure at least a good chance Saleh a lame duck HC, and Douglas a lame duck GM.
• Even if Saleh/Douglas survive 2024 and get extensions, their OLC position still hasn't exactly been attractive from a job security standpoint. They'll have recently fired Pollack when Saleh was hired; then Benton after 2 seasons (2021-22; one year after turning Fant into a solid pass-blocking LT, when healthy); then Carter after 1 season (2023). 
• The Jets called Bill Callahan (I'm sure more correctly, his agent) before hiring Carter, and Callahan wouldn't even consider coming back here. Word gets around. If we know about it, you can bet his OLC peers (and their agents) know, too.

Realistically, who are they going to hire anyway? What OLC of any worth is going to take this job to take the call from lame duck Joe Douglas to then work under lame ducks Robert Saleh and Nate Hackett, to coach an OL that requires drafting or signing 3 starters, in a stadium and team situation that may scare away the top choice FAs?

The choices are Keith Carter or taking a shot in the dark on someone no one else wants to promote either.

Agreed with most of the above, but there’s going to be a lot of staff movement in the coming weeks. The Bears just fired their offensive staff and their OL coach seems to have been pretty effective getting that group up and running. There are enough guys

[GangGreened]

39 minutes ago, nickfoshizal said:

He’s the worst o line coach in the nfl and no it should absolutely not be hard to find a better one. 

This, it seems like addition by subtraction at this point. We really don’t think we can find someone (anyone) better?

[y2k8]

 

Here's the deal. This is Aaron Rodgers' team. 2024 is the last shot for the QB, the FO and the Coaching staff with the Jets.

Rodgers saw how bad the OL was this season. He knows he can only take so many hits in 2024. If he believes this OL coach needs to go, Carter is gone.

If Carter is still here, it's because Rodgers gave his approval.  Rodgers, Saleh and Douglas can all live with the consequences as far as I'm concerned. 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

It’s not the criticism you look for, it’s the lack of people coming out to debunk the criticisms in the days following that tells the story. As with the “Zach was reluctant to play” thing that had Zach fans all defensive, the only person who even tried to say it wasn’t *exactly* accurate was Saleh, and even that wasn’t an outright denial—“A player wouldn’t be here if he didn’t want to play (or some nonsense).” 

gon be a long concussion

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Agreed with most of the above, but there’s going to be a lot of staff movement in the coming weeks. The Bears just fired their offensive staff and their OL coach seems to have been pretty effective getting that group up and running. There are enough guys

You could be right, but some names becoming available doesn't mean they're willing to come to the Jets.

I hope it does happen, but the cynic in me says Saleh's endorsement is probably at least in some ways a way of shielding himself from the humiliation of having others turn him down, where the Jets fill the position with whomever is leftover after the other 31 spots are filled.

Surely Saleh has eyes and can see that players who (even if not elite or really really good) were at least previously more productive or legitimate starters, who weren't so far past their primes like Duane Brown.

So I think this is spin, at least to some degree, and they'd have to have real connections to find out in advance if someone they want is going to take the job before showing anything other than support, publicly, for Carter. 

[Wit]

There needs to be a sacrifice. Although the Yankees didn’t sacrifice


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

8 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

2 players openly mocking an employed coach on the team.

What a culture Douglas and Saleh have built.

With this ineptitude, if Seinfeld were rebooted, it'd be easy to see George working for the Jets.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I was re-watching this and kinda funny how it's the exact same situation the Jets are in now. With a lot of the starters getting injured. 

Welp - hopefully Saleh wakes up at some point this off season.

[Matt39]

Taking care of the older players? Lewan is only 32 right now. These teams do not practice in pads during the season. No one’s going to press him on this but this sounds like sour grapes.

[Saul Goodman]

Saleh is supposed to have the authority to choose his coaching staff but this is definitely a situation where Douglas should have stepped in. He’s in charge of all football operations, the buck stops with him. In fact, he should step in, fire Saleh and hire Mike Vrabel. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Saleh is supposed to have the authority to choose his coaching staff but this is definitely a situation where Douglas should have stepped in. He’s in charge of all football operations, the buck stops with him. In fact, he should step in, fire Saleh and hire Mike Vrabel. 

He probably can fire Carter in the strictest sense, but not in practical terms. No one's going to want to take a job for a HC (particularly one on such thin ice) who can get overruled by the GM to fire the position coaches.

Your last sentiment would be the only way for Douglas to step in. The problem for Douglas is given the team (specifically the offense) he's handed Saleh again, it's not a stretch for the narrative around the league to be that Saleh must be a pretty solid coach to finish with 7 wins twice in a row with an offense that has one WR, a comedy of errors and injuries on the offensive line, and of course Zach Wilson (most recently with just Boyle backing him up, and Siemian behind him). 

So from Douglas's standpoint, I think they're tied to the hip, and then Carter with them until such time as Saleh decides on his own to dump Carter. 

[ChewyandtheJets]

When asked to give some reason for fans to be optimistic that Carter will remain as coach, Saleh replied with the company line "they should be confident because is the right man for the job." 

[Fantasy Island]

10 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

So we have current and former players openly mocking him and yet here’s Bob saying what a great job he’s done. 
 

 

 

Bob is a liar face.

[JetsFlyer]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Tony Pauline, January 2023

 

very prophetic tony!!  100%  unfortunately its we fans who die from this "death wish"

[rex-n-effect]

Carter is bad but really, it's not like any of the OL problems were new to this year. We've seen bad blocking and injuries with his predecessor. OTOH, Carter was part of the best years of Vrabel's tenure in TEN, so it's not like his OLs didn't hold up. They were consistently ranked in the top half of OLs each year. (FWIW, the Titans OL without Carter ranked poorly with the Jets at the bottom of the barrel with the Giants.)

There's really only one consistent factor in the OL over the past three seasons and that's Saleh. You have different OCs, different OLCs and different players across that time but the exact same problems over and over. The roster is certainly somewhat to blame, but then look at the OL players who left for other teams and they look better. Billy Turner looked serviceable in GB but not in NY. There's something more going on than just sketchy OL coaching or MetLife turf.