bla bla bla Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Kelce: R3 Kittle: R5 Andrews: R3 LaPorta: R2 It's a tricky argument. In a redraft, I'd argue each one of those guys go early 1st round. I think "the right" TE is absolutely worthy of a top 10 pick, the issue is the evaluation process the league currently has for them hasn't been accurate 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet2020 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Wait until Anthony Becht takes the field! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 minutes ago, AFJF said: Not a problem, he can win from the slot and boundary as well. Wasn't exclusively a "middle of the field guy" in college and shouldn't be in the NFL. I'm not suggesting that Bowers was. What I am suggesting is that TEs predominantly operate in the middle of the field, and it wouldn't make much sense to invest the 10th pick on a guy who would run most (not all) of his routes over the middle of the field, when our QB targets that area of the field by far the lowest of any starting QB in the league. If he's lining up in the slot or the boundary, that just means your taking a receiver off the field in favor of a TE operating as a WR. Why not just take a WR at that point? Sure- the teams that went far in the playoffs this year all had great TE production. They also had great offensive line production, QB production, and efficient run games. You can make "trends" out of any coincidence. Just because teams A-B-C-D got to the championship game with great TE, does not mean a great TE is required to reach the championship. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 33 minutes ago, AFJF said: He loves throwing shorter passes to guys who can gain yards after the catch. Bowers is one of the best YAC guys in this class and can line up in the slot or outside if Rodgers prefers. He does, but when I think of Aaron Rodgers, I think of run / quick pass options to outside WRers, I think of back shoulder passes, i think of wheel routes to RBs, I think of him buying time inside the pocket and throwing passes outside of the numbers. Maybe he just hasn’t had a player in his offense that is capable of being an elite TE? May sound dumb, but in all of my fantasy drafts over the Rodgers / packers era, I specifically always told myself not to draft packers TEs because he doesn’t like throwing to TEs. Maybe someone else here has the time to pull up some data and see what the numbers really say but my gut says that drafting a TE for Rodgers isn’t the best of investments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 16 minutes ago, extmenace said: He does, but when I think of Aaron Rodgers, I think of run / quick pass options to outside WRers, I think of back shoulder passes, i think of wheel routes to RBs, I think of him buying time inside the pocket and throwing passes outside of the numbers. Maybe he just hasn’t had a player in his offense that is capable of being an elite TE? May sound dumb, but in all of my fantasy drafts over the Rodgers / packers era, I specifically always told myself not to draft packers TEs because he doesn’t like throwing to TEs. Maybe someone else here has the time to pull up some data and see what the numbers really say but my gut says that drafting a TE for Rodgers isn’t the best of investments. Rodgers' has shed some light on it. It's not him personally avoiding TEs, but he avoids the middle of the field because that's where the most turnovers occur. You hit the nail on the head with RPOs, quicks, back shoulders, wheels, etc. His whole strategy is to identify one-on-one coverage. Most offenses utilize the middle of the field because they tend to be the easiest completions (shortest distance and usually personnel mismatches), but Rodgers arm and ability to read the field allow him to attack open parts of the field that other QBs/offenses are less capable of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 26 minutes ago, extmenace said: He does, but when I think of Aaron Rodgers, I think of run / quick pass options to outside WRers, I think of back shoulder passes, i think of wheel routes to RBs, I think of him buying time inside the pocket and throwing passes outside of the numbers. Maybe he just hasn’t had a player in his offense that is capable of being an elite TE? May sound dumb, but in all of my fantasy drafts over the Rodgers / packers era, I specifically always told myself not to draft packers TEs because he doesn’t like throwing to TEs. Maybe someone else here has the time to pull up some data and see what the numbers really say but my gut says that drafting a TE for Rodgers isn’t the best of investments. I'm fairly confident that if you put Brock Bowers on this roster, Aaron Rodgers would be happy to throw him the football and let him do what he does. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Bobby816 said: Was noticing yesterday that all 4 teams left in the playoffs had elite TEs. KC: Kelce SF: Kittle BAL: Andrews DET: LaPorta Bowers at 10 is starting to be my favorite pick. He in essence would knock 2 birds out with 1 stone. Getting an elite playmaker at a position they’re pretty much always a mismatch for defenses at. As well as a capable blocker. We all know the OL needs to addressed. But maybe go and do that in FA to where we can truly go BPA at 10. We know we really liked Mayer last year at TE and nearly drafted him. So we clearly think TE is valuable with us spending money on Conklin and Uzo 2 years ago and drafting Ruckert mid round a couple years ago. This is kind of a silly approach to the draft. IMO. All 4 of these teams have great defenses. All 4 have great QB play. All 4 can run the ball. All 4 have great coaching. Great O-lines! There's a lot of very good, great, elite, things that got these teams to where they are now. I would not look at them having 'elite' TEs as the main reason for them being in the position where they are and therefore suggesting we should draft one at 10. Normally, we would be targeting a QB at 10. But we have Rodgers and the plan is clear - go all in for his final 1-2 seasons as a Jet. So we need to target O-line. I think its pretty straightforward. WRs can be fairly easily acquired in FA, via trade or later on in the draft. There is simply way more impact WR talent in the league (and coming into the league) than o-line talent, so we have to get an O-0lineman early. JMHO. TE is a LUXURY for the Jets right now. Sure, you can think about Bowers as a WR or a weapon. You can (as you have) point to all the successful teams with impact TEs. But let's not forget that there are plenty of teams with fantastic TE talents who did not do much this year. TE is not a make or break position. Waller on the Giants, Kmet on Bears, Hock on Vikes, Pitts on Falcons, Engram on Jags, Goedert on Philly. The Jets NEED tp fix the O-line. Period. End of sentence. No Alt or Fashanu at 10. Take Fuaga and stop worrying about him being 'just a RT'. He could be the best RT in the league for the next 10 years, never sniff the LT position, and I would be absolutely fine with that. Conklin and Ruck can hold down the TE position for now. How about developing Kuntz! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I’m too lazy to but one of you guys that’s living in your mom’s basement with no life see what round the offensive linemen were drafted in because they played their asses off. I know a lot of the top drafted TEs have sucked and most of the good TEs were mid round drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Kelce: R3 Kittle: R5 Andrews: R3 LaPorta: R2 I was thinking about their draft position. Could be Ruckert is the guy and between him and Conklin I don’t see much of a need for bowers. At least at the expense of grabbing a top tackle or even wr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkertons Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Bowers would be an absolute star here. That said I don't really believe you HAVE to have an elite TE to win a SB. This is pure coincidence. What you NEED are a high-end/elite QB and at least a couple of high-end/elite weapons. These teams have that. Just so happens a few of them are TEs. ...but yeah, draft the BPA between weapon and OT, and if Bowers is there at 10 I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be the BPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy 2 Times Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Kelce: R3 Kittle: R5 Andrews: R3 LaPorta: R2 Why can’t people see this? The tight ends drafted super high usually bust or disappoint, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAustrian Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I can see all of you cry when Bowers is Offensive Rookie of the year , all pro and in the hall of fame If Bowers falls to us no tier 1 LT will be on board anymore so we take a Right tackle like Fuaga and in the best case have a solid line man but no game changer This fan base deserves this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Absolutely insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilfieldJet Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 6 hours ago, Bobby816 said: Was noticing yesterday that all 4 teams left in the playoffs had elite TEs. KC: Kelce SF: Kittle BAL: Andrews DET: LaPorta Bowers at 10 is starting to be my favorite pick. He in essence would knock 2 birds out with 1 stone. Getting an elite playmaker at a position they’re pretty much always a mismatch for defenses at. As well as a capable blocker. We all know the OL needs to addressed. But maybe go and do that in FA to where we can truly go BPA at 10. We know we really liked Mayer last year at TE and nearly drafted him. So we clearly think TE is valuable with us spending money on Conklin and Uzo 2 years ago and drafting Ruckert mid round a couple years ago. Think maybe you are confusing TE with QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I think you have to compare Bowers against the other offensive weapons. If MHJ or Nabers is there, probably not, but compare him to Odunze and see what you think. The interesting thing to me is trying to figure out how many people on this board are incensed at us passing at Smith-Njigba who won't touch Bowers. They don't care that JSN was slot only, but think Bowers is somehow off the table because he is a tight end. I mean he only weighs 240. So what if he is likely faster and better with the ball in his hands? He's only a tight end! Sort of the way I wonder about McDonald at 15 being a waste, but thinking we should tag Huff, or that somebody would actually send a day 2 pick for Huff on the tag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Deleted Same to you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 First we need an offensive staff that knows how to use a TE correctly. As much as Bowers might be a great pick, it would be a waste of a pick for us seeing as we don't have the staff that would make the most of his talents. We've been without a staff for at least the last 15 years that knew how to use one properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 hours ago, AFJF said: I'm fairly confident that if you put Brock Bowers on this roster, Aaron Rodgers would be happy to throw him the football and let him do what he does. Of course he would. Just as he would probably pound the table for Kyle Pitts. Talent respects talent, and any QB will want other great and talented players on their team regardless of their role (see Aaron Rodgers-Dalvin Cook). If it’s up to him, he wants all 15 primary personnel guys to be studs. That doesn’t mean Bowers would be utilized properly or to his utmost potential with Rodgers at QB, and for that we’d be failing to properly allocate resources on offense. Not to mention, we’d wind up on here in 3 years complaining that Bowers was a wasted draft pick because he was underutilized in this offense. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hex Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 TE is my favorite position and I would never draft one top 10. They just aren't impactful enough. Notice that the 4 QBs were Goff, Mahomes, Purdy, and Jackson. All above average QBs. Running backs were also good. Niners and Lions had 2 of the best OLs in the league, and Baltimore and KC have formidable lines as well. Not to mention both NFC teams had strong Wide Receiver corps, or the defense of the teams. The recipe for making the champ games is not having an elite TE, but having a complete team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 These conversations shouldn’t exist. The Jets will pick the wrong guy. I hate to say it but haven’t they proved that to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vader Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 AR designs and runs the offense. He is Batman and Hackett is Robin. If Batman who designs the offense doesn’t know how to use a TE in an offense, there won’t be a Bowers pick. It’s that simple. OTOH, if he wants to evolve try something new and put a new wrinkle in the offense that opposing DCs haven’t seen, maybe he gets creative this offseason. That said, Conklin and Ruckert is a nice combo. Conklin was like the second best offensive weapon in 23. And the old fart needs OL… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 11 hours ago, Bobby816 said: Was noticing yesterday that all 4 teams left in the playoffs had elite TEs. KC: Kelce SF: Kittle BAL: Andrews DET: LaPorta Bowers at 10 is starting to be my favorite pick. He in essence would knock 2 birds out with 1 stone. Getting an elite playmaker at a position they’re pretty much always a mismatch for defenses at. As well as a capable blocker. We all know the OL needs to addressed. But maybe go and do that in FA to where we can truly go BPA at 10. We know we really liked Mayer last year at TE and nearly drafted him. So we clearly think TE is valuable with us spending money on Conklin and Uzo 2 years ago and drafting Ruckert mid round a couple years ago. Kittle is a blocker lapprta is a rooki and Andreas and Kelce are the number 1 for their top 5 QBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Ghost said: These conversations shouldn’t exist. The Jets will pick the wrong guy. I hate to say it but haven’t they proved that to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 20 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said: Kelce: R3 Kittle: R5 Andrews: R3 LaPorta: R2 Yes. But Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant. So does that mean wait until the 7th Round to draft a QB? Was Sauce a bad pick bc a guy like Daron Bland was drafted in Round 5? Chris Jones was a 2nd Rounder so I guess Q was a waste using a top 5 pick on. Point being. That where the guy was drafted makes no difference. It's about getting the right players for a system and coaching them. Bowers is a crazy good weapon. And wouldn't be a bad pick for us if we can address OL in FA. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Kittle is a blocker lapprta is a rooki and Andreas and Kelce are the number 1 for their top 5 QBs Kittle's first catch came with 5 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter. Very different from Kelce who was targeted 11 times and was a huge part of their opening two drives.I also wonder if Andrew's return after such a long absence maybe threw Baltimore off a bit? They had done well without him and seemed to go away from Likely to go back to a guy who hadn't played in a long time. Not sure if this messed up the dynamics a bit.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Yes. But Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant. So does that mean wait until the 7th Round to draft a QB? Was Sauce a bad pick bc a guy like Daron Bland was drafted in Round 5? Chris Jones was a 2nd Rounder so I guess Q was a waste using a top 5 pick on. Point being. That where the guy was drafted makes no difference. It's about getting the right players for a system and coaching them. Bowers is a crazy good weapon. And wouldn't be a bad pick for us if we can address OL in FA.Every position has the "yeah but this guy was a late pick and played great" scenario. You could build a SB team by cherry picking late rounders everywhere. Much harder to do it before you know they're good - or they wouldn't have been late round picks.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Bobby816 said: Yes. But Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant. So does that mean wait until the 7th Round to draft a QB? Was Sauce a bad pick bc a guy like Daron Bland was drafted in Round 5? Chris Jones was a 2nd Rounder so I guess Q was a waste using a top 5 pick on. Point being. That where the guy was drafted makes no difference. It's about getting the right players for a system and coaching them. Bowers is a crazy good weapon. And wouldn't be a bad pick for us if we can address OL in FA. When were the other 3 QBs in the championship round drafted? I noticed you left them out. Point being, you've chosen the outlier here to try and make a point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Man envisioning Bowers in this offense is definitely exciting. Hopefully they can figure out OL in free agency because after Olu/Alt are off the board the next couple of tackles definitely seem like projects and not worth pick 10. We go into next season with this type of personnel: Rodgers Breece GW/Davante/Lazard Bowers That looks similar to the typer of offense the 49ers and Lions just put out there this year. Bowers would be a great pick IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 18 hours ago, PepPep said: This is kind of a silly approach to the draft. IMO. All 4 of these teams have great defenses. All 4 have great QB play. All 4 can run the ball. All 4 have great coaching. Great O-lines! There's a lot of very good, great, elite, things that got these teams to where they are now. I would not look at them having 'elite' TEs as the main reason for them being in the position where they are and therefore suggesting we should draft one at 10. Normally, we would be targeting a QB at 10. But we have Rodgers and the plan is clear - go all in for his final 1-2 seasons as a Jet. So we need to target O-line. I think its pretty straightforward. WRs can be fairly easily acquired in FA, via trade or later on in the draft. There is simply way more impact WR talent in the league (and coming into the league) than o-line talent, so we have to get an O-0lineman early. JMHO. TE is a LUXURY for the Jets right now. Sure, you can think about Bowers as a WR or a weapon. You can (as you have) point to all the successful teams with impact TEs. But let's not forget that there are plenty of teams with fantastic TE talents who did not do much this year. TE is not a make or break position. Waller on the Giants, Kmet on Bears, Hock on Vikes, Pitts on Falcons, Engram on Jags, Goedert on Philly. The Jets NEED tp fix the O-line. Period. End of sentence. No Alt or Fashanu at 10. Take Fuaga and stop worrying about him being 'just a RT'. He could be the best RT in the league for the next 10 years, never sniff the LT position, and I would be absolutely fine with that. Conklin and Ruck can hold down the TE position for now. How about developing Kuntz! Fuaga also has the makings of a big time bust. I’ve seen plenty of rookie tackles get drafted high and come in the league looking completely lost. (Evan Neal, Iky Ekwonu) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballLove Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Yeah so if he's an elite blocker, he'll never get sent out on routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight89 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 I'm not sure if Bowers is going to be there at 10 but if he is and the Jets take him, I'd be very happy with that pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said: When were the other 3 QBs in the championship round drafted? I noticed you left them out. Point being, you've chosen the outlier here to try and make a point. #10, #32, and #1 overall that was traded. The Jets literally had the opportunity to have any of the 4 and actually passed on three of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extmenace Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, jamesr said: Every position has the "yeah but this guy was a late pick and played great" scenario. You could build a SB team by cherry picking late rounders everywhere. Much harder to do it before you know they're good - or they wouldn't have been late round picks. Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk Also throw in the fact that when a lot of these late round hits change teams, they wind up falling off a cliff. Jimmy Graham and Julius Thomas come to mind. The TE position is very system dependent and dependent on who is throwing the ball. I could easily see a world where Conklin is in the perfect system with the right qb and is putting up top 5-7 receiving stats. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkertons Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 21 hours ago, extmenace said: He does, but when I think of Aaron Rodgers, I think of run / quick pass options to outside WRers, I think of back shoulder passes, i think of wheel routes to RBs, I think of him buying time inside the pocket and throwing passes outside of the numbers. Maybe he just hasn’t had a player in his offense that is capable of being an elite TE? May sound dumb, but in all of my fantasy drafts over the Rodgers / packers era, I specifically always told myself not to draft packers TEs because he doesn’t like throwing to TEs. Maybe someone else here has the time to pull up some data and see what the numbers really say but my gut says that drafting a TE for Rodgers isn’t the best of investments. Is it bad that I really wouldn't give af about Rodgers' preference when deciding on whether or not to draft Bowers? Rodgers could be gone as early as next offseason. At best he probably is only here another two seasons. Bowers will be 23 years old by that time. Also it's not like Bowers would just be riding pine with Rodgers here. When he's had good TEs he hasn't been afraid to go to them. Finley, Graham, even Tonyan to a degree. If you think Bowers is the next great TE, Rodgers' preferences wouldn't stop me from taking him. That said, the guy isn't a dope. No way he doesn't find a way to get a weapon like that involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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