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Vince Young wonders why Ryan Fitzpatrick playing but not him

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2 hours ago, phill1c said:

The notion that the worst QB in the league should be on the roster influencing young players seems absurd REGARDLESS of whether Vince Young has a job. LOL, but its repeated on this team: a guy with one of the worst QB ratings going back years, from a losing program is the presumptive starter.

All the other crap you've dumped on Vince young "he was in awful shape..." you don't know that. You know he pulled a hamstring. People in shape pull hamstrings too. But, no, you have to pile on bullsh!t to support...no kidding...Ryan Fitzpatrick?!

It's either the dumbest argument or a racist, er, racial one. You pick...

 

I made more than one point to support it and you deflected away.  Take one look at Vince Young on social media and you can tell the guy is far from in football shape.  Take one look at the CFL reports and you'd reinforce the notion that not only is he out of shape, but he looks awful throwing the ball.  How about glancing over the fact that one is under contract for bare minimum to be a BACKUP and Young, in negotiations with the last team to consider him, stated he wanted more than that (money/opportunity).  None of this is bullsh*t.  It's documented facts that people want to glance over to force feed their bullsh*t "raycisssssmmmmmm" narrative.  The guy f*cking sucks, is out of shape, and 34 years old with horrible mechanics, a toxic attitude and sh*t accuracy.  Why the F*CK would anyone want him?  I hate Fitzpatrick but the guy is 2 years removed from a decent year and is a cheap backup who can step in and hold down the fort if the starter gets hurt.  He's kinda proven that over a dozen times in his career.  Young has been out of the league for much longer than that and was dreadful the last time he stepped on a field. You think Fitzpatrick is the worst QB in the league?  That's fine.  I wouldn't disagree there.  However, that would change the second Young got signed to an NFL team.  He's awful. 

By the way, it's a torn Hamstring.  Not a simple pull.  He's b*tching and whining while not even being remotely healthy enough to play.  He's a garbage player, a garbage teammate, and by the sound of it, a garbage guy to coach. It's not racial and it isn't stupid.  Vince Young doesn't belong in the NFL and he has NO ONE to blame other than himself.

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Just now, Dcat said:

Well I certainly hear your position on the issue and you have every right to express it without being trolled for it.  I certainly don't agree with you. And it was you who started the debate by referring to non-white QBs in the early post.  That said, good luck with it.  I'm out.

One does need an opposition to have a debate. Otherwise, it's an echo chamber.

And I appreciate your respectful reply.

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3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I made more than one point to support it and you deflected away.  Take one look at Vince Young on social media and you can tell the guy is far from in football shape.  Take one look at the CFL reports and you'd reinforce the notion that not only is he out of shape, but he looks awful throwing the ball.  How about glancing over the fact that one is under contract for bare minimum to be a BACKUP and Young, in negotiations with the last team to consider him, stated he wanted more than that (money/opportunity).  None of this is bullsh*t.  It's documented facts that people want to glance over to force feed their bullsh*t "raycisssssmmmmmm" narrative.  The guy f*cking sucks, is out of shape, and 34 years old with horrible mechanics, a toxic attitude and sh*t accuracy.  Why the F*CK would anyone want him?  I hate Fitzpatrick but the guy is 2 years removed from a decent year and is a cheap backup who can step in and hold down the fort if the starter gets hurt.  He's kinda proven that over a dozen times in his career.  Young has been out of the league for much longer than that and was dreadful the last time he stepped on a field. You think Fitzpatrick is the worst QB in the league?  That's fine.  I wouldn't disagree there.  However, that would change the second Young got signed to an NFL team.  He's awful. 

By the way, it's a torn Hamstring.  Not a simple pull.  He's b*tching and whining while not even being remotely healthy enough to play.  He's a grabage player, a garbage teammate, and by the sound of it, a garbage guy to coach. It's not racial and it isn't stupid.  Vince Young doesn't belong in the NFL and he has NO ONE to blame other than himself.

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Like Geno Smith? Who was signed in a f*cking heartbeat?  How about Tyrod Taylor who was a career backup until he got traded to the Bills?  Dennis Dixon?  Vince Young BEFORE he played himself out of the league?

It's his SECOND contract, his 5th year. Hell he didn't even get to have a fair shot in his first contract. Started started for TWO years and was trending upward. Not his 13th plus year...Tyrod Taylor and Dennis Dixon together don't have as many as half the years of either of these guys.

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6 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It's his SECOND contract, his 5th year. Hell he didn't even get to have a fair shot in his first contract. Started started for TWO years and was trending upward. Not his 13th plus year...Tyrod Taylor and Dennis Dixon together don't have as many as half the years of either of these guys.

Cutler doesn't have a job.  I think personality has a lot to do with it.  As much as we want to believe that it is all based on performance, it's not. It's also based on personality and leadership.  Vince Young and Geno, for what its worth, have always been weak at those skill sets. It matters.  You may think it's racially motivated.  I think there are other factors.  But I agree it is not necessarily 100% about performance on the field.  If I were a GM, I wouldn't want Geno or Vince Young in my building.  And not because of race.  And that's the truth. I wouldn't want Cutler either.  But if a starting QB goes down to injury this summer, Cutler will be called upon based on experience. Locker room negatives notwithstanding.  Much like Geno who has the personality of a recluse and zero leadership ability.

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11 minutes ago, phill1c said:

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

I could right a goddamn 10 page thesis on why I think my Mets are dropping like flies but I enjoy my blood pressure being where it's at right now, lmfao.  Yeah, I know about the hammys...my point is just that he's complaining while not being healthy.  I also believe his was a severely torn hamstring.  I got you though.

At the end of the day, Fitzpatrick has shown that he is capable of doing what is expected of the backup...and he's doing it for cheap.  I don't think he should be playing for anyone.  I agree.  However, there are teams in need of veteran backups.  He fits that bill.  Vince was given 4-5 chances with different teams via backup roles/TC workouts and he showed time and time again that he can't cut it.  On top of it, his attitude is awful and not something you want in the QB room/locker room.  In fact, like @Dcat just said, I think that's the biggest reason why he's out so "quickly" (he had a decently long career, all things considered).

 

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8 minutes ago, phill1c said:

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

He gets those chances because he is a smart football player that brings value to a team even when he is not playing. Vince Young is a knucklehead. No different than Johnny Manziel. At QB, if you are a headcase or bring outside issues (Kap), you better be a starting caliber QB, because no one wants a middling QB with a bad attitude or of the field distractions as a backup.

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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I could right a goddamn 10 page thesis on why I think my Mets are dropping like flies but I enjoy my blood pressure being where it's at right now, lmfao.

At the end of the day, Fitzpatrick has shown that he is capable of doing what is expected of the backup...and he's doing it for cheap.  I don't think he should be playing for anyone.  I agree.  However, there are teams in need of veteran backups.  He fits that bill.  Vince was given 4-5 chances with different teams via backup roles/TC workouts and he showed time and time again that he can't cut it.  On top of it, his attitude is awful and not something you want in the QB room/locker room.  In fact, like @Dcat just said, I think that's the biggest reason why he's out so "quickly" (he had a decently long career, all things considered).

 

Sure, he can do everything, except play well or smart and not get injured.

And I'm not sure his attitude is anything special, if his holdout and handling of getting benched is any indication.

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1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said:

NFL teams have black doods that have been incarcarated let alone just being black so your race issue in the NFL is absurd.

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

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Just now, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

holy sh*t.  you saw a video of the kicker cold cocking his woman?  Dont even go there, the kicker sounds like he was in an unhealthy relationship for sure but please dont say it is the same thing except for race.  I have been with some crazy ass women and have had the smarts to walk away no matter how good they were in bed.  Why was hardy given chances and the kicker wasnt?  See???? i can play that game too.  it is ridiculous. the nfl will play any player if their skill outweighs their baggage imo. again, just my opinion ;)

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16 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Sure, he can do everything, except play well or smart and not get injured.

And I'm not sure his attitude is anything special, if his holdout and handling of getting benched is any indication.

Fitzpatrick did play well in the past.  His horrific season the following year doesn't change that.  Also, in the two years he was with us, he got injured ONCE and came back the following week and went on to play some of his best ball of that season. If you're referring to his leg injury in Houston, remember that it was an injury that derailed their entire season because he was playing decent ball.  Again, I say this as someone who LOATHED watching the guy.

Say what you want about his holdout, but he was supported by just about every player in that locker room.  His teammates liked him and the coaches liked him.  The same can't be said of Young.  When Geno got himself cold clocked by a teammate, he was never going to be the guy going forward ever again and that gave Fitzpatrick a load of leverage.  Business is what it is.  Fitz wanted one more payday and the team didn't want a long-term commitment.  Both sides got what they wanted and I can't disagree with either side for wanting what they ultimately got.

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38 minutes ago, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

And that might be because the rule over punishment has changed.  Plus the outcry over the fact it was on video for the world to see.

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How did this go down the race topic?  

Vince Young is an idiot, legitimately an idiot.  Stories of him spending money like he was Bill Gates, and drinking stories with Glendale White are pretty notorious.  I'm pretty sure he would be bankrupt even if he had a star career and made many more millions.  

Jeff Fisher is a horrible coach, that I don't understand why he kept getting head coaching jobs for such long tenures.  He works a defense decently, but he's about as out-dated as you can get in coaching nowadays.  Even Rex looks modern next to this guy. 

I think Vince does have a point about the on field play.  

Vince threw 1304 passes in his career.

57.9 completion %/ 3.5 TD%/3.9 INT %/6.9 Y/A- 74.4 QB rating.  Young added 1459 yards on the ground with 12 TD with 24 yards per game and 5.2 Y/A

Ryan Fitzpatrick's first 1175 passes in his career:

57.8 completion %/3.7 TD %/3.6 INT %/6.0 Y/A- 73.0 rating.  Fitzpatrick added 778 yards on the ground with 5 TDs, 18 yards per game and 5.3 Y/A

Not only that, Fitzpatrick main prime came with Buffalo:

If you take out Young's rookie season in Tennessee, and also the season with the Eagles

60.6 completion %/3.6 TD%/3.5 INT%/7.1 Y/A- 79.6 QB rating for Young.  These years comprise of ages 24-27

So let's look at all the years Fitzpatrick was with Buffalo:

59.8 completion %/4.6 TD%/3.6 INT%/6.7 Y/A/79.8 QB rating for Fitz.  These years comprise of ages 27-30

It certainly seems like Young has a case that he played similarly to Fitz at a younger age.

I think the reason Young got knocked out of the league was because he was a liability and really lacked leadership of a team.  You hear stories of him drinking, spending his money away, and being late and that's frowned upon if you are a QB, and limits chances.  I don't think Young adjusted to the notion that he wasn't great, when he was just physically so much better all the way until the NFL.  Being the football star at Texas is the equivalent of being an A-list rock star everywhere else, so I'm guessing it was a clash of ego between Young and Fisher.   They both are idiots.  If Young didn't get hurt with the Eagles, he may have had a similar career of backup level play like Fitz, but he didn't stay healthy.  

 

 

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9 hours ago, phill1c said:

The notion that the worst QB in the league should be on the roster influencing young players seems absurd REGARDLESS of whether Vince Young has a job. LOL, but its repeated on this team: a guy with one of the worst QB ratings going back years, from a losing program is the presumptive starter.

All the other crap you've dumped on Vince young "he was in awful shape..." you don't know that. You know he pulled a hamstring. People in shape pull hamstrings too. But, no, you have to pile on bullsh!t to support...no kidding...Ryan Fitzpatrick?!

It's either the dumbest argument or a racist, er, racial one. You pick...

 

So in your limited capacity you believe that to be a good influence on others a player has to be above average?  A lousy player cant become a great HC or manager?  Really?  

And listen, if you're going to be a baby and call someone out for saying not only do you have a chip...you are the chip, don't call someone dumb or racist  

 

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

A lousy player cant become a great HC or manager?  Really?  

 

Just the other day on NFL.com there was an article about the 11 active players best suited to become a HC in the future. Josh McCown was listed on it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000817615/article/philip-rivers-heads-players-who-could-make-great-head-coaches

So I guess that backs up your point pretty well.

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7 hours ago, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

I believe that the difference there is a matter of incident-caught-on-tape vs. not-caught-on-tape rather than a matter of black/white.

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Holy crap! Vince young is 34 years old? Doesn't seem that long ago. Wow was he amazing at Texas. Shame he couldn't keep it together.  Fun guy to watch. 

Great college player, complete freaking headache man-child. $25 M guarantee as a #3 overall pick. Two bankruptcies, 4 or 5 teams, and a weird day when everyone thought he was going to try to kill himself. 

 

Sad that these guys let people talk them into throwing their money away.

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9 hours ago, phill1c said:

Again, these are spots reserved for white guys. Because Black guys very rarely get to be a "career backup". Or get to be "career turnover machine choke artists."

That's something to say in the abstract but, specifically, what black QBs do you feel didn't/haven't gotten a fair shot to be a career backup? Certainly not Vince Young. 

Not Colin Kaepernick, either, who'd have a very nice well paid job if he hadn't chosen a questionable way to make a political point. 

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Fitz a late round guy is random and of course terrible, but in a way his career is far more impressive than former NFL RoY Heisman nominee Rose Bowl etc. Young could have a job right now if he had his act together. Being from Harvard is great if you're a lawyer or a pediatrician in the NFL it's interesting but not really helpful. Young is a household name in Texas and always will be that's still worth something. BTW if Tim Tebow can be promoted through the Mets farm system VY could have a job as a QB it's not that crazy of an idea. 

But that's looking at it from the perspective of these guys as individuals. Take a step back: It's a machine. To develop a QB takes an investment from the franchise. There is some truth to the statement that the backup and QB3 (QB4 if your Hack) jobs are often given away based on the whims of GMs. As a group, GMs are risk averse and will make every decision possible not to get fired. They often make personnel decisions based on nepotism, player resume, college legacy/fellow alum, etc.  It's why Sanchez, Geno, Clemens all still have jobs. These guys are objectively terrible but they have a job cause they either know people or have experience, or whatever stories GMs tell themselves to employ guys who every Jets fan will tell ya stink out loud.  

at Draftdaddy we used to get emails from parents of QB prospects who felt like the system was rigged against them cause their son, who checked off all sorts of boxes developmentally, athtletically, had the arm etc didn't go to a Michigan or wherever. Why couldn't their 6'5" son get media coverage? They would complain back in the days of NFL Europe which doesn't even exist these days. These prospects would love to be QB3 on any team and in theory a team could invest in a nobody and have it pay off. There's no reason why it couldn't. There might be only 20 real starters in the league at any given time but there are hundreds of possible QB2's. 

These backup jobs go to the Jordan Palmers of the world whether it's fair or not.  No Gm is getting fired drafting someone's brother or giving Mark Sanchez a backup job. It's a responsible move. Even Josh McCown whom Jets fans don't really know how bad he stinks yet, it's perceived as responsible to employ this player or heck even start him. It's been done before and it might even be done again.  It's like name brand loyalty. 

The risky move is to find some nobody, a Tony Romo or Kurt Warner and push all in. You have to be Bill Parcells or Dick Vermeil to make those moves. 

To bring it back around Fitz is more of an outsider journeyman who accumulated an NFL resume than a big time name brand like Vince Young. Young put butts in the seats with his natural ability, Fitz may have been a terrible QB for the Jets last year but he's earned his career.

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32 minutes ago, slats said:

That's something to say in the abstract but, specifically, what black QBs do you feel didn't/haven't gotten a fair shot to be a career backup? Certainly not Vince Young. 

Not Colin Kaepernick, either, who'd have a very nice well paid job if he hadn't chosen a questionable way to make a political point. 

the fact that Geno Smith is employed should end the racism argument. NFL teams would sell a purple man from Mars if he could run a 4.3

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29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the fact that Geno Smith is employed should end the racism argument. NFL teams would sell a purple man from Mars if he could run a 4.3

Only if he were non-threatening!

I think the racism card could more properly be played comparing these (they just win, physical) guys to players like Manziel.  Guys that play by the book and are willing to sit and play (generally) within an offense stick around.  Look at Garrard - the Jets would probably still be carrying him, but he failed the physical.  I mean, I know Charlie Batch is pretty light skinned, but he has been playing for damn near ever. 

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22 hours ago, phill1c said:

I thought this was about Ryan Fitzpatrick and his suckage. Apparently, it's about the audacity of ANYONE to criticize a loser you've hooked your wagon to.

what? Are you drunk or stupid? I've blasted Fitzpatrick on here. I get you want to make stuff up so you can go on some imaginary crusade for some reason, but at least spend a couple seconds researching before charging off the cliff.

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