Vince Young wonders why Ryan Fitzpatrick playing but not him

[win4ever]

How did this go down the race topic?  

Vince Young is an idiot, legitimately an idiot.  Stories of him spending money like he was Bill Gates, and drinking stories with Glendale White are pretty notorious.  I'm pretty sure he would be bankrupt even if he had a star career and made many more millions.  

Jeff Fisher is a horrible coach, that I don't understand why he kept getting head coaching jobs for such long tenures.  He works a defense decently, but he's about as out-dated as you can get in coaching nowadays.  Even Rex looks modern next to this guy. 

I think Vince does have a point about the on field play.  

Vince threw 1304 passes in his career.

57.9 completion %/ 3.5 TD%/3.9 INT %/6.9 Y/A- 74.4 QB rating.  Young added 1459 yards on the ground with 12 TD with 24 yards per game and 5.2 Y/A

Ryan Fitzpatrick's first 1175 passes in his career:

57.8 completion %/3.7 TD %/3.6 INT %/6.0 Y/A- 73.0 rating.  Fitzpatrick added 778 yards on the ground with 5 TDs, 18 yards per game and 5.3 Y/A

Not only that, Fitzpatrick main prime came with Buffalo:

If you take out Young's rookie season in Tennessee, and also the season with the Eagles

60.6 completion %/3.6 TD%/3.5 INT%/7.1 Y/A- 79.6 QB rating for Young.  These years comprise of ages 24-27

So let's look at all the years Fitzpatrick was with Buffalo:

59.8 completion %/4.6 TD%/3.6 INT%/6.7 Y/A/79.8 QB rating for Fitz.  These years comprise of ages 27-30

It certainly seems like Young has a case that he played similarly to Fitz at a younger age.

I think the reason Young got knocked out of the league was because he was a liability and really lacked leadership of a team.  You hear stories of him drinking, spending his money away, and being late and that's frowned upon if you are a QB, and limits chances.  I don't think Young adjusted to the notion that he wasn't great, when he was just physically so much better all the way until the NFL.  Being the football star at Texas is the equivalent of being an A-list rock star everywhere else, so I'm guessing it was a clash of ego between Young and Fisher.   They both are idiots.  If Young didn't get hurt with the Eagles, he may have had a similar career of backup level play like Fitz, but he didn't stay healthy.  

 

 

[jgb]

Ryan Fitzpatrik wonderlic: 49.

Vince Young wonderlic: 6.

/thread.

[The Troll]

[mention=5419]The Troll[/mention]

All he does is win, baby. If racists like Jeff Fisher didn't run Wins Young out of the league, he'd probably be knocking on the door of all Favre and Manning's records.

[Fishooked]

Maybe its because he doesn't get arrested & stuff 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, phill1c said:

The notion that the worst QB in the league should be on the roster influencing young players seems absurd REGARDLESS of whether Vince Young has a job. LOL, but its repeated on this team: a guy with one of the worst QB ratings going back years, from a losing program is the presumptive starter.

All the other crap you've dumped on Vince young "he was in awful shape..." you don't know that. You know he pulled a hamstring. People in shape pull hamstrings too. But, no, you have to pile on bullsh!t to support...no kidding...Ryan Fitzpatrick?!

It's either the dumbest argument or a racist, er, racial one. You pick...

 

So in your limited capacity you believe that to be a good influence on others a player has to be above average?  A lousy player cant become a great HC or manager?  Really?  

And listen, if you're going to be a baby and call someone out for saying not only do you have a chip...you are the chip, don't call someone dumb or racist  

 

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

A lousy player cant become a great HC or manager?  Really?  

 

Just the other day on NFL.com there was an article about the 11 active players best suited to become a HC in the future. Josh McCown was listed on it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000817615/article/philip-rivers-heads-players-who-could-make-great-head-coaches

So I guess that backs up your point pretty well.

[Dcat]

7 hours ago, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

I believe that the difference there is a matter of incident-caught-on-tape vs. not-caught-on-tape rather than a matter of black/white.

[The Crusher]

Holy crap! Vince young is 34 years old? Doesn't seem that long ago. Wow was he amazing at Texas. Shame he couldn't keep it together.  Fun guy to watch. 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Holy crap! Vince young is 34 years old? Doesn't seem that long ago. Wow was he amazing at Texas. Shame he couldn't keep it together.  Fun guy to watch. 

Great college player, complete freaking headache man-child. $25 M guarantee as a #3 overall pick. Two bankruptcies, 4 or 5 teams, and a weird day when everyone thought he was going to try to kill himself. 

 

Sad that these guys let people talk them into throwing their money away.

[slats]

9 hours ago, phill1c said:

Again, these are spots reserved for white guys. Because Black guys very rarely get to be a "career backup". Or get to be "career turnover machine choke artists."

That's something to say in the abstract but, specifically, what black QBs do you feel didn't/haven't gotten a fair shot to be a career backup? Certainly not Vince Young. 

Not Colin Kaepernick, either, who'd have a very nice well paid job if he hadn't chosen a questionable way to make a political point. 

[bitonti]

Fitz a late round guy is random and of course terrible, but in a way his career is far more impressive than former NFL RoY Heisman nominee Rose Bowl etc. Young could have a job right now if he had his act together. Being from Harvard is great if you're a lawyer or a pediatrician in the NFL it's interesting but not really helpful. Young is a household name in Texas and always will be that's still worth something. BTW if Tim Tebow can be promoted through the Mets farm system VY could have a job as a QB it's not that crazy of an idea. 

But that's looking at it from the perspective of these guys as individuals. Take a step back: It's a machine. To develop a QB takes an investment from the franchise. There is some truth to the statement that the backup and QB3 (QB4 if your Hack) jobs are often given away based on the whims of GMs. As a group, GMs are risk averse and will make every decision possible not to get fired. They often make personnel decisions based on nepotism, player resume, college legacy/fellow alum, etc.  It's why Sanchez, Geno, Clemens all still have jobs. These guys are objectively terrible but they have a job cause they either know people or have experience, or whatever stories GMs tell themselves to employ guys who every Jets fan will tell ya stink out loud.  

at Draftdaddy we used to get emails from parents of QB prospects who felt like the system was rigged against them cause their son, who checked off all sorts of boxes developmentally, athtletically, had the arm etc didn't go to a Michigan or wherever. Why couldn't their 6'5" son get media coverage? They would complain back in the days of NFL Europe which doesn't even exist these days. These prospects would love to be QB3 on any team and in theory a team could invest in a nobody and have it pay off. There's no reason why it couldn't. There might be only 20 real starters in the league at any given time but there are hundreds of possible QB2's. 

These backup jobs go to the Jordan Palmers of the world whether it's fair or not.  No Gm is getting fired drafting someone's brother or giving Mark Sanchez a backup job. It's a responsible move. Even Josh McCown whom Jets fans don't really know how bad he stinks yet, it's perceived as responsible to employ this player or heck even start him. It's been done before and it might even be done again.  It's like name brand loyalty. 

The risky move is to find some nobody, a Tony Romo or Kurt Warner and push all in. You have to be Bill Parcells or Dick Vermeil to make those moves. 

To bring it back around Fitz is more of an outsider journeyman who accumulated an NFL resume than a big time name brand like Vince Young. Young put butts in the seats with his natural ability, Fitz may have been a terrible QB for the Jets last year but he's earned his career.

[bitonti]

32 minutes ago, slats said:

That's something to say in the abstract but, specifically, what black QBs do you feel didn't/haven't gotten a fair shot to be a career backup? Certainly not Vince Young. 

Not Colin Kaepernick, either, who'd have a very nice well paid job if he hadn't chosen a questionable way to make a political point. 

the fact that Geno Smith is employed should end the racism argument. NFL teams would sell a purple man from Mars if he could run a 4.3

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the fact that Geno Smith is employed should end the racism argument. NFL teams would sell a purple man from Mars if he could run a 4.3

Only if he were non-threatening!

I think the racism card could more properly be played comparing these (they just win, physical) guys to players like Manziel.  Guys that play by the book and are willing to sit and play (generally) within an offense stick around.  Look at Garrard - the Jets would probably still be carrying him, but he failed the physical.  I mean, I know Charlie Batch is pretty light skinned, but he has been playing for damn near ever. 

[thadude]

Vince Young would be our week 1 starter -- and I think he sucks

[jeremy2020]

22 hours ago, phill1c said:

I thought this was about Ryan Fitzpatrick and his suckage. Apparently, it's about the audacity of ANYONE to criticize a loser you've hooked your wagon to.

what? Are you drunk or stupid? I've blasted Fitzpatrick on here. I get you want to make stuff up so you can go on some imaginary crusade for some reason, but at least spend a couple seconds researching before charging off the cliff.

[Blackout]

On Tue Jun 27 2017 at 2:05 PM, Joe Jets fan said:

Because Fitz is smart as hell and Young is dumb as sh*t.  That's why

 

fitz is a dummy on the field 

[NoBowles]

57 minutes ago, thadude said:

Vince Young would be our week 1 starter -- and I think he sucks

Thank you for this, your opinion is highly regarded around here.....

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, jamesr said:

Just the other day on NFL.com there was an article about the 11 active players best suited to become a HC in the future. Josh McCown was listed on it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000817615/article/philip-rivers-heads-players-who-could-make-great-head-coaches

So I guess that backs up your point pretty well.

As do quite a few baseball managers like Lasorda, Stengel etc.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

Vince Young would be our week 1 starter -- and I think he sucks

It's hard for you not to play the idiot I guess. 

Other than making things up, complaining about the players, the CS, mgt and the owner wtf do you contribute to this board?  I can't think of one thing

[phill1c]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

what? Are you drunk or stupid?

Is your mom?

[Jet Nut]

51 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Is your mom?

There's a comeback.  

[#27TheDominator]

^

deflecting

[thadude]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

It's hard for you not to play the idiot I guess. 

Other than making things up, complaining about the players, the CS, mgt and the owner wtf do you contribute to this board?  I can't think of one thing

Hey let me know when like Hack or Petty play good cuz I like wanna watch

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, thadude said:

Hey let me know when like Hack or Petty play good cuz I like wanna watch

And to help drive my point you whine about two development QBs, one of which you've never seen play.  The whiney answer doesn't even fit what I posted, you still contribute nothing but whatever point it is you think you're making.  

[Mogglez]

21 minutes ago, thadude said:

Hey let me know when like Hack or Petty play good cuz I like wanna watch

You genuinely wouldn't know what good QB play is if it smacked you in the mouth.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

You genuinely wouldn't know what good QB play is if it smacked you in the mouth.

To be fair, no Jet fan can claim to be an expert on the subject.

[Mogglez]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

To be fair, no Jet fan can claim to be an expert on the subject.

Can't argue this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

??

[thadude]

10 hours ago, Mogglez said:

You genuinely wouldn't know what good QB play is if it smacked you in the mouth.

If that's the case the play of McClown, Wack and Putrid ain't hitting my mouth or anyone except a reporter's standing in the parking lot

[long suffering jets fan]

On 6/27/2017 at 3:09 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Young asks a good question  but he just isn't the one to ask it. 

Now Farve who it was rumored to want to play last year should ask that question.

Indeed despite the hate out here of Farve , if he wanted to play until he was 70 years old he would be and have been a better option than Fitz at anytime.  

Period!!

Yet the first year Fitz was here, he had a much better year than Favres year with the Jets.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Yet the first year Fitz was here, he had a much better year than Favres year with the Jets.

Ummmmm this is Jet fan logic at it's best.  The talent and scheme that Farve and Fitz employed were dramatically different and hence different outcomes.  No one and I mean no one but a Jet fan would ever imply that Fitz was ever better than Farve.

Think:  Sanchez got the Jets to the playoffs and Farve didn't does that make Sanchez better than Farve?

Of course not!!!!! 

To paraphrase the Great Joe Louis: "If Fitzpatrick dreamed that he was a better QB than Bret Farve he should wake up an apologize."

[Joe Jets fan]

On 6/30/2017 at 9:03 AM, thadude said:

If that's the case the play of McClown, Wack and Putrid ain't hitting my mouth or anyone except a reporter's standing in the parking lot

Wow.  

[long suffering jets fan]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:32 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Ummmmm this is Jet fan logic at it's best.  The talent and scheme that Farve and Fitz employed were dramatically different and hence different outcomes.  No one and I mean no one but a Jet fan would ever imply that Fitz was ever better than Farve.

Think:  Sanchez got the Jets to the playoffs and Farve didn't does that make Sanchez better than Farve?

Of course not!!!!! 

To paraphrase the Great Joe Louis: "If Fitzpatrick dreamed that he was a better QB than Bret Farve he should wake up an apologize."

I admit to being a Jets fan, but obviously I never said Fitz was better than Favre.  Frankly I never wanted "post-retirement" Favre.   We paid him 13M for what, to sell seats?  He was a one year rental with no backup plan.  In the meantime, our noodle armed Pennington was going to the playoffs with the Dolphins.  That's the reactionary Jets who had no long term plan. The following year we were back to square one and we moved up to draft Sanchez.  I'm hoping Macc is somehow able to right the ship.  Fitz had one great year with the Jets and I thoroughly enjoyed it. 

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

I admit to being a Jets fan, but obviously I never said Fitz was better than Favre.  Frankly I never wanted "post-retirement" Favre.   We paid him 13M for what, to sell seats?  He was a one year rental with no backup plan.  In the meantime, our noodle armed Pennington was going to the playoffs with the Dolphins.  That's the reactionary Jets who had no long term plan. The following year we were back to square one and we moved up to draft Sanchez.  I'm hoping Macc is somehow able to right the ship.  Fitz had one great year with the Jets and I thoroughly enjoyed it. 

There's no evidence the team saw Favre purely as a 1-year rental.

1. Favre "retired" on or about February 11th
2. They drafted Sanchez on April 25th
3. They released Favre April 29th

If they knew he was just a 1-year rental they'd have officially released him in February. Retaining his rights became impossible after trading up for Sanchez, because under the old CBA a top-5 pick QB got a $50-60m rookie contract when easily-reached incentives were factored in. There wasn't realistic room for both on the roster (certainly not the way Tannenbaum spent).

Also, enjoyment of 2015's moderate success aside, Fitzpatrick had zero "great" years. If one of the league's actually-great QBs had Fitzpatrick's 2015 season, it'd have been considered an off-year not a great one. 

[NoBowles]

On 6/30/2017 at 11:32 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Ummmmm this is Jet fan logic at it's best.  The talent and scheme that Farve and Fitz employed were dramatically different and hence different outcomes.  No one and I mean no one but a Jet fan would ever imply that Fitz was ever better than Farve.

Think:  Sanchez got the Jets to the playoffs and Farve didn't does that make Sanchez better than Farve?

Of course not!!!!! 

To paraphrase the Great Joe Louis: "If Fitzpatrick dreamed that he was a better QB than Bret Farve he should wake up an apologize."

You do realize its POSSIBLE to think that Fitzpatrick's 2015 season was better than Favre's 2009 season, and still not think that Fitzpatrick could even sniff Favre's jock as a QB, right?

[phill1c]

5 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Fitz had one great year with the Jets and I thoroughly enjoyed it. 

Wow, you enjoyed a year where the jets didn't make the playoffs? Where Fitzpatrick had--if memory serves--FOUR straight poor performances? Where he choked away a playoff berth with three 4th-quarter INTs?

I sure didn't. It was the worst scenario: he plays bad enough to miss the playoffs and looks like sh!t for most to the time but good enough to be fools gold and take time away from true rebuilding and QB talent evaluation.

It appears Long Suffering Jets Fan enjoys suffering...