If you think Darnold is a FQB, what could change that?

[nj meadowlands]

If he shot someone on 5th Avenue

[Guilhermezmc]

He's on Andy Dalton molds but is more turnover prone, If he has a good offensive line and weapons he can be a good qb in the league. You see Andrew luck was always playing with horrible offensive lines but the Guy was a stud. Im done giving excuses to this team, everybody should be held accoutable. 

[jgb]

No one’s opinion is getting changed this year. The pro Darnold contingent has a perfectly valid excuse and the anti Darnold crew likely won’t see enough good play to switch opinions.

[playtowinthegame]

8 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

He's on Andy Dalton molds but is more turnover prone, If he has a good offensive line and weapons he can be a good qb in the league. You see Andrew luck was always playing with horrible offensive lines but the Guy was a stud. Im done giving excuses to this team, everybody should be held accoutable. 

Sad thing is Sam Darnold isn't even good enough so far to be compared to Andy Dalton. 

[jgb]

Romo upside Sanchez downside nothing has changed this season imho 

[Warfish]

We just need to give Sam time, and weaponz, and an all-pro O-line.

Then we'll see.

[Mike135]

Seeing him play badly with a competent oline for a few games.

[Guilhermezmc]

12 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Sad thing is Sam Darnold isn't even good enough so far to be compared to Andy Dalton. 

Yes, I was talking about his ceiling.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

You're going to lead the league in INTs after a once in a lifetime abysmal performance that was Monday night. 

Before the Dallas game, he had the longest active streak in the NFL for completions without a pick. 

I loved the way he responded on that first drive, and how he got the team back in the game in the fourth. Unfortunately Robby got held on the late deep ball, which was a great throw- that play could have catapulted the entire season forward. 

 

You're still on that pass to Robbie? I bet if Sam threw it short like you were saying earlier it's an INT. No doubt.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

The Hot Take Factories have been running overtime.  My question is, if, at this point in his career, you still view Sam Darnold as unquestionably the answer at QB, what could change that?

Seems to me, that right now, that opinion is pretty solidified, and Sam is great but is unable to play great because of the line, the WRs, and Gase.  So, is there anything that can change that for you in Sam’s play, or does he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have better WRs?

For context, he has 8 turnovers in 2 weeks, and has the 3rd most INTs despite missing 3 games, as well as the league leading INT% by a meaningful margin.

So, again, anything that would make you change your opinion from “he’s being ruined,” to “he’s just not good?”

I am neutral, leaning towards optimism about Darnold. Once I see Darnold play behind a decent line and have a coach who designs plays specifically for his skill set, I'll reserve a little optimism for the 22 year old prospect. The fact that Le'Veon Bell is not featured in this offense proves one of two things, or both. The offensive line is awful, and/or Gase is not a good play caller.

I am completely open to the fact that Darnold may never be good, but I haven't been soured on him just yet. 

[DMan77]

If it's a year from now and Sam hasn't learned a single thing from the mistakes he's made...

But I don't believe that will happen.

I think these mistakes and bad games are going to make him even better in the long run. 

[Jetsfan80]

There have been lower points for the young QB's we've had.  I still don't feel as bad about Darnold's floor as I did about Sanchez or Geno's floor.  And I think Sam has a significantly higher ceiling than those 2, or really any QB we've had in a very long time.  But that's not saying much.  

I don't think we should be entering the QB market in the upcoming draft.  It would take a lot of poor play for me to get on board with that.  Keep trying to build around Sam and see what happens in 2020 after Douglas's first offseason.  If he still sucks in 2020, then I'm all in on tanking for Trevor Lawrence.  

[ChuckkieB]

I am willing to give Darnold a mulligan this year because his O line is historically bad and his new HC either isn't capable or hasn't figured out how to get the most out of him and the offense.  If many get their wish here (including myself) and Gase is booted after the season, Darnold will be working on his 3rd HC in 3 years - not ideal conditions for developing a franchise QB.  Friggin Jets.  

[SpartanJet]

If the Jets overhaul the O-line AND get some real WR (not Robby Anderson types) and he still struggles then I'd stop believing.  This is the worst performing offense in the league and I believe it has the lowest amount of talent in the league.  Its going to take at least 2 drafts to fix this hot mess.  I believe we aren't even giving Darnold a legitimate shot to perform well.

[Saul Goodman]

Confidence is definitely shaken. How can it not be after the past two games? Still, there’s nothing that can happen this season that would cause me to conclude that he’s a bust. He’s only 22

[Y2jets]

More time with Adam Gase might change my mind about him

[Ohhthepain]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Since the process of fixing these things doesn’t begin until year three, you’re also prepared to give him a massive extension while still being given a pass, then?

Assuming it takes 3 years, could take two or less, yes. Also assuming the contract reflects the play of a struggling QB with potential. Not 40 million a year 

[Jerichoholic]

Confidence is definitely shaken. How can it not be after the past two games? Still, there’s nothing that can happen this season that would cause me to conclude that he’s a bust. He’s only 22

This. Right now it’s more about his confidence than anything. Sanchez was toast post butt fumble. Pennington was shot after the second labrum tear. QB is all about being decisive and confident (with an accompanying skill set that we’ve all seen Sam flash). So far in his career he has bounced back - first game in Detroit after the pick six on his first pro attempt, the Dallas game post mono etc. He desperately needed to bounce back this game and didn’t. The plays gase scripted for the beginning of each quarter put him in good positions to be successful, but the reactionary playing calling after those drives put him in bad situations and Sam to reverted to the ol duck and chuck because he was pressing.

He’s not a FQB. He’s a 22 year year old with the talent to become a FQB - but not with this piss poor management of his development.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Deshaun Watson without OL... Watson with a better line... Just an example... Watson without a line, looks terrible, can't win and throws picks.... now with improved line he looks like an MVP... 

Houston made the playoffs last year.  Watson was 11-5 and threw for 4000 yards, 26 TD's, 9 INT's and completed 69% of his passes and added 600 yards on the ground with an additional 5 TD's. That's your definition of terrible?   Can we get Sam to be that terrible?  

This post did exact opposite of what you intended. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Oh for ****s sake it’s ok to disagree 

But heaven forbid we wonder what it would take for someone we disagree with to change their minds...

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

How long did it take with Pennington? There's still people who think he's elite if not for (insert favorite penningtologist excuse here)

As for my answer, for context ,I have been a Darnold doubter since day 1. The QBase was poor, he took a downturn in year 2, turned the ball over too much and just wasnt a clean prospect in terms of a sufficient history of efficiently running an offense on schedule. I agree he flashes some great sand lot ability so I see why people are excited, but he also has a lot of the same issues that have been evident for 3 years now. 

The reality is that he's not a Manning type prospect who lived football for most of his life and would've been good anywhere he went, so I think being inserted into this mess here is hurting his development in tangible ways. The question is how much and for how long?  Like everything, I don't think it's a black and white issue. Moreso than with the noodle arm, who had a strong team around him, I can understand the narrative that the Jets are killing Darnold's potential but also I think there's something to be said for the idea that if he was ever going to be great he should be able to weather a bad start to his career.

Maybe I'm punting on the question a bit but I don't think it's an easy question to answer

 

You hit on my biggest concern, that he’s all sandlot and not enough “field general” or whatever you want to call it.

[Rhg1084]

He’s only 22 years old. I’d ride with him at least 3 more season after this to get a true evaluation of him 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

But heaven forbid we wonder what it would take for someone we disagree with to change their minds...

There are people who still think Sanchez was good. They're the same people who think we're 3-4 and playoff bound.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, Rhg1084 said:

He’s only 22 years old. I’d ride with him at least 3 more season after this to get a true evaluation of him 

Sweet merciful crap.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That is a hell of a presumption that the overall pressure he faces doesn't alter his decision time clock or have him feeling pressure when it's not there.

Darnold does take some blame.  Obviously.  I find it extremely short sighted to say "well he didn't have pressure on this exact pass and threw an INT, that proves he sucks".  How many throws has he made in his short career where he does have pressure?  

No matter what your clock says, you can’t make dumb decisions under pressure.  Even if things were better around him, he’d have times where he’d need to make decisions in bad spots.  He does really stupid things as of now.

[CTM]

Just now, TeddEY said:

You hit on my biggest concern, that he’s all sandlot and not enough “field general” or whatever you want to call it.

Ha, I was tempted to use game manager but I hate that term. The reality is there is a ton of mundane little things that the Bradys and Brees of the world do consistently. They have a minimum level of competency that they can rely on, Darnold doesnt.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There have been lower points for the young QB's we've had.  I still don't feel as bad about Darnold's floor as I did about Sanchez or Geno's floor.  And I think Sam has a significantly higher ceiling than those 2, or really any QB we've had in a very long time.  But that's not saying much.  

I don't think we should be entering the QB market in the upcoming draft.  It would take a lot of poor play for me to get on board with that.  Keep trying to build around Sam and see what happens in 2020 after Douglas's first offseason.  If he still sucks in 2020, then I'm all in on tanking for Trevor Lawrence.  

This is kind of where I'm at.  He's got a higher ceiling but his floor is just as low, obviously.   I think he's good enough to build a winner around, similar to a Flacco or Dalton.  Average to occasionally good when everything around him is sound, including the coaching.

Gun to head - he's a bust.  He's just a mental midget to ever be elite.  He'll be a middling QB who can lose you a game in an instant with his poor mechanics and decision making.  That said, the logic approach is to give him this season and see if he can string a decent second half of the year together and then literally spend every single resource you have in draft and in Free Agency on offense.  Everything.  Throw UDFA's at Defense for all I care.  Not a penny or a draft pick should be spent on defense next year, none at all. 

 

[JohnnyLV]

Up to this point, Sam has shown an amazing ability to learn from mistakes and not repeat them. Yesterday was first time he seemed to just sort of make the same mistakes as week before. He has no OL and no weapons but he looked frazzled and made bad decisions, where the weeks before that he had made very very few and had like 160 attempts without an interception. If he continues to throw lots of questionable balls it will become concerning.

[NYJ37/12]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I can’t put a number on it....like “8 turnovers in two weeks,” but I think it’s one of those things where you know it when you see it.  IF he was playing bad while in a clean pocket.  If he was missing open WRs.  If he wasn’t going through his progressions while not under duress, I’d really start to worry.  THAT would be regression.

If I watch last year’s Indy, Denver, Packers games and this year’s Dallas game I see 4 games that were lead by a guy who jumps off the screen as a franchise QB. And this is with a pretty damn poor supporting cast.

I’m clearly in the camp that thinks this kid has “it.”  What he doesn’t have is anything else around him, and it’s hard to develop like that.  He’s played 17 NFL games.

Well stated!

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

He’s only 22 years old. I’d ride with him at least 3 more season after this to get a true evaluation of him 

5 years... wow

[deucebag]

1 hour ago, nj meadowlands said:

If he shot someone on 5th Avenue

Unless that someone were Adam Gase?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

This is kind of where I'm at.  He's got a higher ceiling but his floor is just as low, obviously.   I think he's good enough to build a winner around, similar to a Flacco or Dalton.  Average to occasionally good when everything around him is sound, including the coaching.

The Jets draft quarterbacks for ceiling and everybody else for floor. That's how you end up with Leonard, Adams, Darnold, no present and no future.

[More Cowbell]

Put him behind on KC and he sucks. I mean what can you say. this team is terrible. 

[Freemanm]

Darnold is still a very good QB, but he's developed bad habits (such as throwing off of his back foot too often) and throws way too many bad INTs. He's not in Sanchez territory yet, but Gase better do something to improve his bad habits. NOt having an Oline and having a free rusher in his face all the time doesn't help matters. 

[CTM]

20 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The Jets draft quarterbacks for ceiling and everybody else for floor. That's how you end up with Leonard, Adams, Darnold, no present and no future.

I think Rex drafted Sanchez because he wanted to watch him schtupp his wife, I gues that counts as ceiling if there's mirrors on it