Tony Pauline on Leveon Bell+more

[SAR I]

39 minutes ago, JiF said:

Bell's fault he didnt set the world on fire.  Not Darnold'sfault he didnt set the world on fire.  Not Gase's fault he couldnt run a comptent offense.

#TomShanelogic.

No Jets offensive player was going to set the world on fire.  The injuries made sure of that.

Gase was managing an XFL caliber roster.  Going 6-2 was a nice individual accomplishment. 

Darnold figured out a way to move the ball with a 32nd ranked OL and 32nd ranked ground attack and Bottom 10 WR's.  Second half of the season was the 10th best QB in the NFL.  Again, a nice individual accomplishment.

Bell.  Hmm.  Of the three of them, he's the one who can control his situation the most, RB is a very individualistic position, and he's got a history of turning busted blocking into positive gains.  One of the worst RB's in the NFL statistically.  No individual accomplishment.

In the second half of the season, Gase and Darnold did their jobs despite obstacles.  Bell did not.

SAR I

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

A point I rarely see mentioned in RB usage(as it relates to Drake in this discussion) is that sometimes guys in limited roles simply aren't capable of sustaining their production with a usage increase.  It's very possible Drake fits into that  category.  Did Gase not use him enough, or did Gase (and every other coach Drake's ever played for) know that he's a risk to dip in production with an expanded work load?

So he's like AI...a volume shooter, or in Drake's case a volume runner.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Just now, SAR I said:

No Jets offensive player was going to set the world on fire.  The injuries made sure of that.

Gase was managing an XFL caliber roster.  Going 6-2 was a nice individual accomplishment. 

Darnold figured out a way to move the ball with a 32nd ranked OL and 32nd ranked ground attack and Bottom 10 WR's.  Second half of the season was the 10th best QB in the NFL.  Again, a nice individual accomplishment.

Bell.  Hmm.  Of the three of them, he's the one who can control his situation the most, RB is a very individualistic position, and he's got a history of turning busted blocking into positive gains.  One of the worst RB's in the NFL statistically.  No individual accomplishment.

Gase and Darnold did their jobs despite obstacles.  Bell did not.

SAR I

Gase did his job by producing a last place offense and embarrassing the team on a weekly basis . I don't think so.

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Guys the answer is very easy - for 3 years in Miami and a year here there is one constant, it’s never Adam Gase’s fault. 

Excuse me, but why should we care what Adam Gase did in Miami?  Do you throw Bill Belichick's stats in Cleveland around to justify his performance in New England?  Or did a young coordinator cut his teeth in Ohio, make his mistakes, learn from them, take over another crappy team, and through discipline, culture, and buy-in create a consistent winner?

Miami is ancient history, a young coordinators first HC job.  Gase is off to a solid start in New Jersey.  That's all that matters.

SAR I

[BornJetsFan1983]

Is SAR I actually a Gase burner account?

 

Think about it?

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Excuse me, but why should we care what Adam Gase did in Miami?  Do you throw Bill Belichick's stats in Cleveland around to justify his performance in New England?  Or did a young coordinator cut his teeth in Ohio, make his mistakes, learn from them, take over another crappy team, and through discipline, culture, and buy-in create a consistent winner?

Miami is ancient history, a young coordinators first HC job.  Gase is off to a solid start in New Jersey.  That's all that matters.

SAR I

Um no because belichick wins. You do not, uhm Gase does not

[SAR I]

13 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Gase did his job by producing a last place offense and embarrassing the team on a weekly basis . I don't think so.

The first half of the season did not exist.  Look at the second half.  That's the indicator of the Jets future.  Took 8 games for replacement players to get comfortable, took 8 games for Darnold to recover from mono, took 8 games for us to find a kicker, took 8 games for the coaching staff to figure out the right way to win with the most injury-riddled roster in the NFL.

Gase did a very good job turning 1-7 to 6-2.  Go in a dark room, put a pillowcase over your head, and repeat that to yourself until it sinks in.

SAR I

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Is SAR I actually a Gase burner account?

Think about it?

Is BornJetsFan1983 actually a Beningo burner account?

Think about it.

SAR I

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Hear hear.

We just finished the season 6-2 with Bell contributing essentially nothing.  What is it that people say-  that's right, the Jets "played the easiest second-half schedule against the worst teams in the NFL", right?

4 games he failed to get 50 yards.

5 games he failed to average 4 yards per carry.

8 games and he scored 2 TD's on the ground in total.

8 games he was targeted as a receiver an average of 5x per game, 0 TD's.

If Le'Veon Bell were an elite NFL back, he would be putting up big numbers against the NFL's weaklings.  If the team was good enough to have the second-best record in the entire league in the second-half of the season, there is no reason for a well-rested so-called elite player to suck like this.  This isn't coaching.  This is talent.  OL or RB or both.

SAR I

Go Serious off roading in your BMW and tell me how quality translates to performance when used idiotically. Thanks, I’ll hang up and wait for your response.

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Um no because belichick wins. You do not, uhm Gase does not

Belichick won in his second season in New England.  His first?  As bad as all those seasons in Cleveland.  That's what happens when a new coach has to change everything in a new city. 

Gase hasn't failed in New Jersey.  This was a great season for us.  Next season completely healthy, same playbooks, believing in their coaching staff, and confident after the 6-2 finish, look out.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Go Serious off roading in your BMW and tell me how quality translates to performance when used idiotically. Thanks, I’ll hang up and wait for your response.

I respect you immensely, The Crusher, unlike these other SOJF's I really respect your opinion.

Explain it to me, please.  Explain how Bell was used idiotically.

Because when I look at the stats, he got the right amount of carries/targets, was given the freedom to improvise with his slurry running style, and performed as a below-average running back and an average receiver.  When lined up outside or in the slot, Crowder was a better receiver.  When lined up as the feature back, Powell was a better runner. 

That's what I see.  Please tell me what I'm missing.  I really want to learn.  I'll be happy to apologize if my eyes and the metrics are deceiving me.

SAR I

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Is SAR I actually a Gase burner account?

 

Think about it?

He’s a troll.

[DonCorleone]

16 hours ago, Beerfish said:

It is going to be very tough for the Jets to move Bell.

Also, what kind of back does Gase want?

One that doesn't run so much. 

[varjet]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase hasn't failed in New Jersey.  This was a great season for us.  Next season completely healthy, same playbooks, believing in their coaching staff, and confident after the 6-2 finish, look out.

SAR I

There is clearly a difference of opinion on the issue, and clearly there were other factors that impacted the team Gase was able to put on the field.

Without a doubt, his grocery buyer in Miami was not great, and he was left with a pantry of rotted food in Florham Park.

But we all have seen enough bad about Gase to be very skeptical about how successful he will be as HC of the NYJ. 

I do think that Douglas will be a better grocery buyer than Tannenbaum (both places)/Idzik/Mac.   In a perfect world, we will be able to judge the coaching job Gase does in 2020 with the players on his roster, without any excuses.  Injuries are a mixed excuse, because of Gase' history with injuries.  Don't know if it is how the players are used, whether they take dives, etc.  But it is something. 

The bad news for us fans is that I suspect that the Johnsons will be slow to fire Gase.  The market for coaches salaries has really spiked.  They have Gase locked in relatively cheap for three more years.  We may get stuck with that longer than we should  

[Fantasy Island]

We are drafting tacos this year.

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

I think Gase is a stubborn ass who didn't want Bell originally and is willing to cut his own nose off to spite his face.

I also think Bell has lost two steps from 2015 and would need to find himself in a great situation to ever again get close to his heyday. I was impressed with the way he handled himself given the poor #'s so I have nothing against Bell. I just think we'd be better served with someone the manchild wants who has a bit more burst

 

I'm always a proponent of draft yourself a RB every year, and keep the stable fresh on young legs. Hate the idea of over-paying for what a player already did... and I don't disagree, he's obviously not the player he was 5 years ago. No RB is.

Gase is a buffoon.

I'm just disputing the blame police here and they're biased arguments. This convo started centered around the notion that Bell couldn't produce, and it was Bell's fault... but Darnold's struggles are all the OL and Gase. I don't like playing that game with the nincompoops here.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm just disputing the blame police here and they're biased arguments. This convo started centered around the notion that Bell couldn't produce, and it was Bell's fault... but Darnold's struggles are all the OL and Gase. I don't like playing that game with the nincompoops here.

In addition Gase clearly didn't use Bell properly.  He's not a guy you slam into the line with A-gap dive plays.  You need to get him in space where he can use his lateral agility.  We didn't do much of that at all. 

Bell was clearly declining as a pure runner his last year in PIT but even here he demonstrated he was every bit the threat in the passing game as he always has been in the few opportunities he got.  

The best conspiracy theory there would be Gase intentionally sabotaged Bell because he didn't want him from the outset.  

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

He’s a troll.

Those who troll Jets fans are the trolls; those who troll the trolls are enjoying themselves at your expense.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, DonCorleone said:

One that doesn't run so much. 

Look!  It's a starting NFL running back with 325 carries scoring 1 of his 3 touchdowns.

Please, Lev'eon, don't leave.  I don't know how we can make the playoffs without your Tommy Bohanon production.

SAR I

[SR24]

 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

I respect you immensely, The Crusher, unlike these other SOJF's I really respect your opinion.

Explain it to me, please.  Explain how Bell was used idiotically.

Because when I look at the stats, he got the right amount of carries/targets, was given the freedom to improvise with his slurry running style, and performed as a below-average running back and an average receiver.  When lined up outside or in the slot, Crowder was a better receiver.  When lined up as the feature back, Powell was a better runner. 

That's what I see.  Please tell me what I'm missing.  I really want to learn.  I'll be happy to apologize if my eyes and the metrics are deceiving me.

SAR I

No need for dramatics. I just struggle thinking he really could have got that bad over his year off. Dude was literally on pace for a Hall of Fame career with Pittsburgh. Now, we can both agree he had a superior line at Pittsburgh and a QB with weapons other teams had to fear. 
 

I honestly think it’s a little of everything. The line was literally historically bad and Sam wasn’t really scaring anyone enough to get a favorable running defense I’ve front. I have no illusions of any kind in that respect. 
 

Gase did a great job keeping the team on track and it certainly showed in the last half of the season. Weak opponents or not he kept these guys  on track and got them wiling after a first half of bad luck with injury and communicable diseases . I commend that. 
 

My struggle is I just can’t believe he couldn’t figure out a way to make Bell more effective. Change blocking scheme by adding TEs, adapt his calls to RPO type plays to get a littLe hesitation out of the defense because it’s that pause that makes Bell’s running style work. Our offensive line obviously couldn’t create it with the present blocking scheme, so why not change the scheme until you find one that kinda works?? It’s like Gase has his way to do it and if the players doesn’t fit the scheme then its tough sledding until he gets his players. I would think someone called and offensive genius would be little bit more creative and adaptive. That all. I understand if you don’t agree and I’m fine with that. I guess time will tell. 

[sec101row23]

It’s entirely possible, and probable, that both Gase AND Bell are to blame for the lackluster run game.  Gase’s run game scheme looked incredibly simple and Bell looked incredibly slow.   

[CTM]

36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The best conspiracy theory there would be Gase intentionally sabotaged Bell because he didn't want him from the outset.  

I think that happened

And Bell isn't the player he was

And our Oline is weak

And Darnold is not that good

It's not any one answer which is why most of these debates are dumb and it's just better to troll

[varjet]

17 minutes ago, SR24 said:

 

The Texans GAVE the Browns a draft pick to take Osweiler's contract.  

The Jets should hope they don't end up there.  

[FidelioJet]

30 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Those who troll Jets fans are the trolls; those who troll the trolls are enjoying themselves at your expense.

SAR I

Please don’t get me wrong - I think what you’re doing is good for the board.  After a season like we had and the coach we’re stuck with - I think it’s important we have someone like you putting a spin on it, as outlandish as it is, to keep the things interesting around here..

But sometimes I just feel bad for people that take you seriously.  I truly mean no offense to you at all   I just want to point it out to people that are getting upset and taking you seriously. - no need to have upset people.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

No Jets offensive player was going to set the world on fire.  The injuries made sure of that.

Gase was managing an XFL caliber roster.  Going 6-2 was a nice individual accomplishment. 

Darnold figured out a way to move the ball with a 32nd ranked OL and 32nd ranked ground attack and Bottom 10 WR's.  Second half of the season was the 10th best QB in the NFL.  Again, a nice individual accomplishment.

Bell.  Hmm.  Of the three of them, he's the one who can control his situation the most, RB is a very individualistic position, and he's got a history of turning busted blocking into positive gains.  One of the worst RB's in the NFL statistically.  No individual accomplishment.

In the second half of the season, Gase and Darnold did their jobs despite obstacles.  Bell did not.

SAR I

This is totally misguided.   All of the RB's suffered the worst years their career.  Fact.  This wasnt exclusive to Bell.  

You're right, Darnold did improve over the 2nd half of the year and guess how he did it?  By throwing the ball because they couldnt run the ball with any RB effectively.  Guess who caught the 2nd most passes on the team with the best catch rate on the team?  

Fix the OL and Bell goes right back to being one of the most dangerous RB's in the NFL.

 

[JustInFudge]

43 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

No need for dramatics. I just struggle thinking he really could have got that bad over his year off. Dude was literally on pace for a Hall of Fame career with Pittsburgh. Now, we can both agree he had a superior line at Pittsburgh and a QB with weapons other teams had to fear. 
 

I honestly think it’s a little of everything. The line was literally historically bad and Sam wasn’t really scaring anyone enough to get a favorable running defense I’ve front. I have no illusions of any kind in that respect. 
 

Gase did a great job keeping the team on track and it certainly showed in the last half of the season. Weak opponents or not he kept these guys  on track and got them wiling after a first half of bad luck with injury and communicable diseases . I commend that. 
 

My struggle is I just can’t believe he couldn’t figure out a way to make Bell more effective. Change blocking scheme by adding TEs, adapt his calls to RPO type plays to get a littLe hesitation out of the defense because it’s that pause that makes Bell’s running style work. Our offensive line obviously couldn’t create it with the present blocking scheme, so why not change the scheme until you find one that kinda works?? It’s like Gase has his way to do it and if the players doesn’t fit the scheme then its tough sledding until he gets his players. I would think someone called and offensive genius would be little bit more creative and adaptive. That all. I understand if you don’t agree and I’m fine with that. I guess time will tell. 

Jets fans - how can Darnold succeed behind this OL?

Jets fans - how can Gase run an effective offense behind this OL?

Jets fans - no QB/RB would be successful behind this OL!

Jets fans - no coach could be successful with this OL!

Jets fans - Mac was the devil and never invested in the OL!

Jets fans - look at all this data proving that the Jets had a historically bad OL!

Jets fans - look at how many different players they used and how many different units they used on the OL!

Jets fans - we need to trade Jamal Adams to acquire more picks to invest in the OL!

Jets fans - all 3 RB's for the NY Jets had the worst season of their careers, weird.

Also, Jets fans - Le'Veon Bell sucks, peep his YPC brah.

I cant find a gif of a cuckoo clock but that would be the most appropriate gif ever for this debate.  

 

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Those who troll Jets fans are the trolls; those who troll the trolls are enjoying themselves at your expense.

SAR I

And then there is you, who trolls everyone.  I too would not be surprised if the original sar sold his account to gase.  It wouldn’t be the first time that happened.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Bell's fault he didnt set the world on fire.  Not Darnold'sfault he didnt set the world on fire.  Not Gase's fault he couldnt run a comptent offense.

#TomShanelogic.

 

Why is it difficult for you to wrap your mind around the idea that an aging running back with a million carries who voluntarily sat out a year and then was forced to take a mercy deal from a bottom-three team in the league because nobody else wanted him was a poor investment and that no coach in the world was every going to make him 25 years old again?

[JetsFanatic]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Belichick won in his second season in New England.  His first?  As bad as all those seasons in Cleveland.  That's what happens when a new coach has to change everything in a new city. 

Gase hasn't failed in New Jersey.  This was a great season for us.  Next season completely healthy, same playbooks, believing in their coaching staff, and confident after the 6-2 finish, look out.

SAR I

To take it a step further, Belichick went 5-11 in 2000 and started 1-3 in 2001 before Brady took over as starting QB.  If Bledsoe doesn't get injured, in all likelihood, Belichick gets fired at the end of the 2001 season.,  

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why is it difficult for you to wrap your mind around the idea that an aging running back with a million carries who voluntarily sat out a year and then was forced to take a mercy deal from a bottom-three team in the league because nobody else wanted him was a poor investment and that no coach in the world was every going to make him 25 years old again?

and to make it worse, you also have to wonder if gase was so against this that he didn't use him initially the way he should have been used, esp. when darnold went down and it was clear the possibility of making the playoffs was gone.  gase had 'immunity' here, he could do what he wanted with mccagnan's roster and darnold's illness.  and we're going to see douglas purge this out in the coming months.

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why is it difficult for you to wrap your mind around the idea that an aging running back with a million carries who voluntarily sat out a year and then was forced to take a mercy deal from a bottom-three team in the league because nobody else wanted him was a poor investment and that no coach in the world was every going to make him 25 years old again?

Is this a debate about the investment because I've been talking about his effectiveness and how it will improve with better OL but sure let's go there for minute.

The investment is done and over with and out of our control.  Besides, it's not even that bad when you consider the timing deal and their ability to get out.  There is nobody else to pay and signing Bell hasnt kept the Jets from being able to do business.  They have plenty of cap to spend and a great opportunity to build through a loaded draft that aligns with the Jets needs but sure, be dramatic if you want and act like this is some crippling deal prevent the Jets from doing what exactly? 

Bell was the 2nd leading receiver on a team that couldnt run block or pass block.  He played behind a historically bad OL.   His yard per target, was 5.9. Meaning, Bell was literally Darnold's oh sh*t help me option because we know, Gase refused to use him as WR despite being one of the best pass catching RB's of all time.  Oh btw, his catch rate was the best on the team at 84%.

But sure, lets act like he didnt provide any value to this team. 

[More Cowbell]

Wonderful, let's  make some more holes on this team. 

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

And his replacement added, what a whopping .3 more in ypc?  You're repeating this like it matters when it doesnt.  The other thing you leave out about that season is that he was #2 in the league in yards from scrimmage but you know, details.  

The more relevant point that you ignore is every single RB on the NY Jets enjoyed the worst season of their career.  That's what's relevant because it speaks to the bigger issue, the OL.  You know, the one you use to defend Gase anytime anyone questions why his offense was once again, incompetent.   

Pretty strange that the Patriots, without any injuries on their Oline went into an offensive drought in the 2nd half of the season because THEY HAD NO DECENT TE. They still had Edelman, Dorsett, Harry, Sony Michel, White, Burkhead but they couldn't move the ball consistently. 

The Jets were bad to start with on offense & were than decimated with injuries at WR (Quincy), TE (Herndon than Griffin), the Oline was different every f*cking week until the final 6 games which they won most of them. 

All these arguments are ridiculous, Brian Billick was once billed as an offensive Guru, same with Mike Martz, does anyone actually think those 2 guys would have had better success than 7-9 with this Jet team? Amazing how once you dig a little deeper you say ah, those Offensive Geniuses had Randall Cunningham, Randy Moss, Chris Carter, Jake Reed & Andrew Glover at TE, LMAO! Rams in 2001, Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt & Ernie Cromwell at TE!!!!!

Andy Reid is a great offensive coach buuuuuut, hes also got Patrick Mahomes, Damien Williams, Mecole Hardman, Tyreek Hill, Demarcus Robinson, Sammy Watkins & Travis Kelce at TE!!!!

I mean COME ON PEOPLE, if this is the type of offense your expecting Gase to duplicate with a crappy Oline filled with old, injured or cast off players, Robbie "Stix" Anderson as your #1, Crowder, Smith, no TE, and a slow as sh*t Bell, old man Powell & a slow WR playing RB in Montgomery, you have to have some sort of brain damage or just not understand football in general. Brady & the Pats looked pretty damn sorry playing behind the sticks & 3rd & long those last few games. 

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, BCJet said:

Guys the answer is very easy - for 3 years in Miami and a year here there is one constant, it’s never Adam Gase’s fault. 

Injuries, the OL, “not my guys” - Gase doesn’t understand its his JOB to get the most out of the roster he’s given. Bell isn’t some 4th round rookie who Gase didn’t pick. He is a player who was on a hall of fame pace, practices hard, is respected in the locker room and can run, catch and pass protect. What else should he do?

Let me know when Gase takes responsibility for something and then maybe we can respect what he does as a coach.  

I wish Parcells could have gotten something out of Martin in the ACCG in Denver or Herm could have gotten something out of him in the AFCCG in Pittsburgh...…….oh yea, its all Gase fault, lol...GTHOOH!