Joe Thomas on the top 4 OTs

[choon328]

The truth is this is not the great Tackle class that's getting portrayed. There is 1 legitimate LT prospect and that's Thomas.  And even he isn't thought of as a can't miss franchise guy.  None of them are.  The other 3, in my opinion for whatever that means to you,  seem to be RT's who would be better served playing Guard in the NFL if they want to reach their full potential. 

[sec101row23]

27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

We agree Wills doesn't sound like a LT and we agree Thomas is the safest but there is a level of Size that does work in the NFL. The Orlando Brown/Trent Brown level where if the dude gets his hands on you, you're done

Joe Thomas is right, Becton's ceiling is higher than any tackle to come out for the last decade (maybe more) 

they don't make 5.1 guys at 360, they just don't. Trent Brown is a slug compared to Becton 

he's really more of a Shaquille O'Neal type of prospect ultra-rare once in a generation size gifts

he's far from perfect but turning him down at 11 is being extra picky 

he should be gone by 11 

Agree one million percent about Becton.  He may  not be starting LT ready day one, but give him some time with real NFL coaching and he can be a monster in the years to come.  
 

People want to point to his “poor” press protection or lack of true pass sets at Louisville, all that is true but he was never asked to play LT like an NFL tackle would.  I forget who I had a prolonged debate with in the draft forum last year about Andre Dillard and the adjustments he would need to make coming from a Mike Leach system.  Becton is going to be same, but has WAY more physical ability than Dillard.  The kid will need a little time, but when he gets it, look out, he could be special for a decade.  

[GreenFish]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The truth is this is not the great Tackle class that's getting portrayed. There is 1 legitimate LT prospect and that's Thomas.  And even he isn't thought of as a can't miss franchise guy.  None of them are.  The other 3, in my opinion for whatever that means to you,  seem to be RT's who would be better served playing Guard in the NFL if they want to reach their full potential. 

This was my take as well. I’m not reading those reports and feeling like they’re 4 top end tackles that fit what the Jets are looking for. 

[jgb]

This is a tough one for me. Generally I think you use those premium picks to find premium players (chase upside), but due to years of OL neglect, Jets are backed into a corner where they basically need an OL that can start and play well ASAP. Thanks, Macc.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

This was my take as well. I’m not reading those reports and feeling like they’re 4 top end tackles that fit what the Jets are looking for. 

they're all good but not necessarily great.  and likely, the gap between the tiers isn't as wide as portrayed.  this is why i definitely can see the jets trading back and either taking a tackle or wr.  douglas will want more picks.

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree one million percent about Becton.  He may be starting LT ready day one, but give him some time with real NFL coaching and he can be a monster in the years to come.  
 

People want to point to his “poor” press protection or lack of true pass sets at Louisville, all that is true but he was never asked to play LT like an NFL tackle would.  I forget who I had a prolonged debate with in the draft forum last year about Andre Dillard and the adjustments he would need to make coming from a Mike Leach system.  Becton is going to be same, but has WAY more physical ability than Dillard.  The kid will need a little time, but when he gets it, look out, he could be special for a decade.  

Even if Becton never becomes a dominant LT, I’d place good odds on him becoming a flatout monster on the right side for a decade.

He could make a significant difference at RT from Day 1.

And hell, I think the Jets are pretty set on giving Fant every opportunity at LT anyway. Regardless of which OT the Jets potentially take at #11 on Thursday night, I think they would probably be penciled in at RT, at least to start off.

The only way the 1st round can be screwed up for me is if we don’t walk away with one of the consensus Top 4 OT’s or Top 3 WR’s.

I’d be thrilled with any of Thomas, Becton, Wirfs, Wills, Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs.

I certainly prefer some over others, but ultimately I’d feel good about adding any of them to the offense.

[RobR]

7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree one million percent about Becton.  He may  not be starting LT ready day one, but give him some time with real NFL coaching and he can be a monster in the years to come.  
 

People want to point to his “poor” press protection or lack of true pass sets at Louisville, all that is true but he was never asked to play LT like an NFL tackle would.  I forget who I had a prolonged debate with in the draft forum last year about Andre Dillard and the adjustments he would need to make coming from a Mike Leach system.  Becton is going to be same, but has WAY more physical ability than Dillard.  The kid will need a little time, but when he gets it, look out, he could be special for a decade.  

His poor pass protection is a myth that everyone likes to keep spreading. He was a three year starter and gave up a total of 4 sacks over that period, while his QB's went on to throw for 9,000 yards. 9,000 yards of passing and only 4 sacks allowed is pretty damn good in my book.

You have people who love Ezra Cleveland and after watching his Florida State game he gave up two sacks in that game alone and was consistently beat around the edge.....yet some think he's a better pass protector.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Even if Becton never becomes a dominant LT, I’d place good odds on him becoming a flatout monster on the right side for a decade.

Plus he's also played both sides.....during the same game. 

[derp]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

Plus he's also played both sides.....during the same game. 

I know people rag on the Jets not signing Conklin. But the Browns are locked into needing a LT in a class where two of the top four prospects played RT and face at least a degree of questions as to how they project to LT. I know we all want a LT but the flexibility Douglas has to upgrade at either tackle spot it particularly nice with this class.

Regarding Becton specifically, I think he projects fine to LT but it’s not the end of the world if he has to start at RT.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, derp said:

I know people rag on the Jets not signing Conklin. But the Browns are locked into needing a LT in a class where two of the top four prospects played RT and face at least a degree of questions as to how they project to LT. I know we all want a LT but the flexibility Douglas has to upgrade at either tackle spot it particularly nice with this class.

Regarding Becton specifically, I think he projects fine to LT but it’s not the end of the world if he has to start at RT.

I heard a podcast with tony pauline this weekend, saying that the browns want to trade back and then draft Ezra cleveland b/c they don’t need a RT so guys like Wirfs and wills don’t make sense for them.  Denver is a logical trading partner if they want to jump up and take a wr.  

[derp]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I heard a podcast with tony pauline this weekend, saying that the browns want to trade back and then draft Ezra cleveland b/c they don’t need a RT so guys like Wirfs and wills don’t make sense for them.  Denver is a logical trading partner if they want to jump up and take a wr.  

That Cleveland thing I’ve posted about a couple times. Been a rumor for a long time. Makes sense from a LT/RT perspective.

Browns new GM also comes from the Eagles (Douglas too, obviously) and is a football guy (Harvard DB) but also obviously sharp and analytics literate (bachelors in economics, masters in computer science at Harvard). Eagles traded down and took Andre Dillard in the first last year. Dillard was the tackle last year who hit the short shuttle threshold that’s been a frankly great marker for OL success. Cleveland is that tackle this year. Will be interesting if Berry tries to replicate. But it’s also logical enough to just be a guess from someone who had too much time to think about that.

[Tinstar]

In my opinion the best OT in this draft is hands down Andrew Thomas of Georgia. If you put all the analysis presented in this thread together and think logically instead of projecting, that fact becomes clear


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[sec101row23]

14 minutes ago, derp said:

That Cleveland thing I’ve posted about a couple times. Been a rumor for a long time. Makes sense from a LT/RT perspective.

Browns new GM also comes from the Eagles (Douglas too, obviously) and is a football guy (Harvard DB) but also obviously sharp and analytics literate (bachelors in economics, masters in computer science at Harvard). Eagles traded down and took Andre Dillard in the first last year. Dillard was the tackle last year who hit the short shuttle threshold that’s been a frankly great marker for OL success. Cleveland is that tackle this year. Will be interesting if Berry tries to replicate. But it’s also logical enough to just be a guess from someone who had too much time to think about that.

That would be interesting because Dillard really struggled adjusting to the NFL last year.  

[GreenFish]

36 minutes ago, RobR said:

His poor pass protection is a myth that everyone likes to keep spreading. He was a three year starter and gave up a total of 4 sacks over that period, while his QB's went on to throw for 9,000 yards. 9,000 yards of passing and only 4 sacks allowed is pretty damn good in my book.

You have people who love Ezra Cleveland and after watching his Florida State game he gave up two sacks in that game alone and was consistently beat around the edge.....yet some think he's a better pass protector.

Reading those Joe Thomas write ups, I got to imagine Joe D is not banging the table for any of these tackles. If there was one, seems like Becton is the guy though. Per Joe Thomas, he fits perfectly into our running scheme. The only question the Jets have to answer is are these issues Joe Thomas sees “correctable”? Thomas seems to think they are. The second question is are there character issues (failed drug test and rumors of him not loving football). But if he has the potential to be solid in pass protection as you’re noting and as Thomas is implying, setting aside that other stuff, Becton is probably our guy. I’m expecting a WR, Becton or a trade back. 

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

That would be interesting because Dillard really struggled adjusting to the NFL last year.  

he came on as the season wound down... and they are giving him the LT job for 2020 over Peters, Lane Johnson moving, Jordan Mailata and Big V 

[Barry McCockinner]

I had 1a & 1b flipped but pretty close!

[sec101row23]

7 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Reading those Joe Thomas write ups, I got to imagine Joe D is not banging the table for any of these tackles. If there was one, seems like Becton is the guy though. Per Joe Thomas, he fits perfectly into our running scheme. The only question the Jets have to answer is are these issues Joe Thomas sees “correctable”? Thomas seems to think they are. The second question is are there character issues (failed drug test and rumors of him not loving football). But if he has the potential to be solid in pass protection as you’re noting and as Thomas is implying, setting aside that other stuff, Becton is probably our guy. I’m expecting a WR, Becton or a trade back. 

This is probably the worst part about this run up to the draft.   Not being able to sit down with a guy and look him the eye and see where his head is at.  You can learn a ton about a kid during and hour or so face to face visit.  This year it will tough to get a read on some of these kids.  

[RobR]

16 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Reading those Joe Thomas write ups, I got to imagine Joe D is not banging the table for any of these tackles. If there was one, seems like Becton is the guy though. Per Joe Thomas, he fits perfectly into our running scheme. The only question the Jets have to answer is are these issues Joe Thomas sees “correctable”? Thomas seems to think they are. The second question is are there character issues (failed drug test and rumors of him not loving football). But if he has the potential to be solid in pass protection as you’re noting and as Thomas is implying, setting aside that other stuff, Becton is probably our guy. I’m expecting a WR, Becton or a trade back. 

I've never heard any rumors about him not loving football, actually quite the opposite. I posted some of his interviews in the draft forum and the kid seems to love football and wants to be the best. Here is one of them.

 

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I know people rag on the Jets not signing Conklin. But the Browns are locked into needing a LT in a class where two of the top four prospects played RT and face at least a degree of questions as to how they project to LT. I know we all want a LT but the flexibility Douglas has to upgrade at either tackle spot it particularly nice with this class.

Regarding Becton specifically, I think he projects fine to LT but it’s not the end of the world if he has to start at RT.

It also seems like RT is more important now anyway. All the big pass rushers line up on that side now.

[section314]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This is probably the worst part about this run up to the draft.   Not being able to sit down with a guy and look him the eye and see where his head is at.  You can learn a ton about a kid during and hour or so face to face visit.  This year it will tough to get a read on some of these kids.  

Great, great point. Body language gives multiple answers in interviews. Can't get that in a face time type thing, that's for sure.

[GreenFish]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This is probably the worst part about this run up to the draft.   Not being able to sit down with a guy and look him the eye and see where his head is at.  You can learn a ton about a kid during and hour or so face to face visit.  This year it will tough to get a read on some of these kids.  

I agree. We apparently interviewed him twice. Once at the Combine and a second time virtually. He’s the only OT we interviewed twice. But still, not getting them for private workouts and spending significant time with them hurts the process. Joe will have trust his connections in the scouting community.

[GreenFish]

20 minutes ago, RobR said:

I've never heard any rumors about him not loving football, actually quite the opposite. I posted some of his interviews in the draft forum and the kid seems to love football and wants to be the best. Here is one of them.

 

 

It was from an anonymous scout which why I said rumored. Who knows. But it’s something Douglas will need to dig into. Based on that interview though, I’m not buying the rumors because of his comment of needing to force himself to eat to maintain his weight.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2886946-anonymous-nfl-scout-says-mekhi-becton-loves-to-cook-and-eat-more-than-football.amp.html

[Bowles Movement]

5 hours ago, choon328 said:

Bectons biggest issue per Joe Thomas...pass protection. There is no way Joe Douglas drafts him.

Depends who you read as to how they are ranked    Ive read that Giants are taking Wirfs or Becton fwiw

[nyjbuddy]

There is still value in grabbing one of these guys and playing them on the right side rather than the left, or even moving them inside.  The list of pass rushers that the right tackle must go against is pretty daunting: Kahlil Mack, Von Miller, TJ Watt, Shaq Barrett, Za’Darius Smith, Arik Armstead, Myles Garrett, JJ Watt, Calais Campbell, Cameron Jordan, DeMarcus Lawerence, Joey Bosa, Danielle Hunter.  These are players that primary lineup on the left side of the defense against the right guard and right tackle.  The goal is to find the best offensive lineman, not just the best left tackle.  If the selection ends up having to move inside and becomes a Quenton Nelson type player, it would be disappointing not to have an elite tackle, but wouldn't mind having an all-pro guard if that is the alternative.  If the player must play the right tackle and handle teams number one pass rushers, then hopefully we end up with an all-pro like Lane Johnson.  The versatility of these lineman are what make them attractive prospects.

"How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?  When they talk about the difference between left tackles and right tackles or describe an offensive lineman as a “right tackle only,” that’s how.  The truth is, anybody who has been paying close attention to the league the last few years realizes (or at least should) that there is no longer a distinction between the two positions on the edges of a team’s offensive line. If your team’s front office hasn’t figured that out yet, and there are still a few I’m not convinced have, you’ve got major problems." - Ross Tucker

 

 

[Philc1]

Joe Thomas is right

 

but what does he know?

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, RobR said:

Plus he's also played both sides.....during the same game. 

Players used to compare lining up against Larry Allen to fighting a Bear

 

they will be saying the same about Becton

[nyjbuddy]

12 hours ago, JTJet said:

Simply. Yes 100%. Theres way more history of this stuff to back up my point of view than not, and this would be tame compared to the levels teams have went to. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/page/hotread140312/nfl-draft-misinformation-smoke-screens-standard-fare-evaluation-season

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2019/04/20/nfl-draft-lying-season-means-dirty-tricks-misinformation-norm/3528356002/

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Article/The-time-of-disinformation-23210/

Theres about 1000 more articles detailing the practices if you're interested. I'm not sure how long you have followed draft season, but the first few weeks of April have a reputation for exactly what I'm talking about. 

What is even more interesting is that Joe Thomas was also interviewed for an article on cleveland.com a couple weeks ago.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/joe-thomas-explains-the-challenges-facing-rookie-left-tackles-and-who-best-fits-the-browns-offense.html

Which draft prospect is the best fit for the Browns at left tackle?

Four tackles have separated themselves from the pack in most pre-draft analysis: Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs, Alabama’s Jedrick Wills Jr., Louisville’s Mekhi Becton and Georgia’s Andrew Thomas.

Joe Thomas thinks any of the four would be fantastic as the next left tackle. Even Wills, who played right tackle in college.

But he does have an order.

“I would say, guys that are ready from day one, to be dominant in the run game, Wirfs would be the first guy,” Thomas said. “But if you’re going to ask a guy to drop back and pass block, which still happens and you still want that skill, then a guy like Mekhi Becton or Jedrick Wills would possibly, maybe, suit that bill just slightly more. But really I think the Browns are in such a great position because they need a left tackle. There’s four, maybe five of them who all could do a great job.”

So... 

1. Wirfs

2. Becton / Wills

4. Thomas

Wirfs went from number 1 two weeks ago, to number 4.  I wonder what changed?

 

[jetsons]

14 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

I don't dislike Wills since he would be a very solid RT in the worst case scenario.  Frankly I'll take a flyer on any of the top 4 and am hoping one falls to us.  I'd bet a lot that JD doesn't like at least one of these guys so I feel as if what happens at 11 with whoever falls to us might surprise.   

I Hope not... He's the Best Tackle prospect (left or right ) in this draft. ?

[Wonderboy]

15 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

This is stupid. Thomas is an NFL analyst these days, not a Browns employee

As relevant as Bucky Brooks mock drafts on NFL Network. He has us taking CB Henderson and passing on Becton, Jeudy, Ruggs and Jones. Beyond stupid.

[Doggin94it]

16 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Let's pretend those scouting reports are exactly what the Jets FO wrote up on each player.  Not necessarily the rank, just the pros and cons.  Who do you think they'd prefer?

My money would say Wills, Thomas, Wirfs, Becton

I'd say Wills, Becton, Thomas, Wirfs - with Becton getting a slight edge on Thomas for ceiling and fit in a zone system

[GREENBEAN]

22 hours ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

I think Wirfs is more of guard in the NFL. Not that the Jets couldn't use another guard. But I say Wills Thomas Wirfs Becton. 

yeah Ive heard others say that as well so you're not alone there, but he will be a T and a damned good one. he's gonna be a great get for whoever takes him. 

[GreenFish]

How good of a guard could Wirfs be? Is he Quenton Nelson good? 

[JETSALLDAY24X]

26 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

yeah Ive heard others say that as well so you're not alone there, but he will be a T and a damned good one. he's gonna be a great get for whoever takes him. 

Would be happy with any of the top 5 tackles. No way we can go into the season with Fant and Edoga as the starting tackles. Sam deserves better then that. 

[GREENBEAN]

1 minute ago, JETSALLDAY24X said:

Would be happy with any of the top 5 tackles. No way we can go into the season with Fant and Edoga as the starting tackles. Sam deserves better then that. 

Agreed.  I think it's a pretty good bet that we are taking at least one T in this draft. I would not be surprised to see JD take two. Maybe Matt Peart in the 4th. Maybe Alex Taylor in the 6th. But IO also think we're taking either a C or G in this draft as well. Maybe both. We could grab Hennessy at C and Damien Lewis at G and be set up for the one year contracts to end with depth in place to take over.  

Setting up the pipeline is a big goal of this draft I think. Especially with the way JD is handling the contracts in Fa. 

[flgreen]

10 hours ago, RobR said:

I've never heard any rumors about him not loving football, actually quite the opposite. I posted some of his interviews in the draft forum and the kid seems to love football and wants to be the best. Here is one of them.

 

 

Thanks for posting that.  one of my concerns about this guy was some character things I had read.

Thought he came off very well there.