Reprisalizer Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Hearing more and more - if you want a premiere head coach, they have to have final say over the roster. The GM works for the HC, more or less. We can get technical about the roster and the draft but fact of the matter is, if you want a premiere HC, Joe Douglas needs to allow that HC to have final say over the roster. Otherwise, we are taking a chance on 2nd tier candidate. The win/loss record goes on the HC resume, so the premiere candidates want to make their own decision. Should the Jets be offering final say over the roster to prospective candidates in order to lure a bigger fish? Or should Joe Douglas retain that control and look for the next up & comer? 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post flgreen Posted December 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2020 bad idea to have HC with roster control. Just to much. HC's just don't have the time to actually study college, and NFL player film . As it is HC's work about an 80 hour week 9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Reprisalizer said: Hearing more and more - if you want a premiere head coach, they have to have final say over the roster. The GM works for the HC, more or less. We can get technical about the roster and the draft but fact of the matter is, if you want a premiere HC, Joe Douglas needs to allow that HC to have final say over the roster. Otherwise, we are taking a chance on 2nd tier candidate. The win/loss record goes on the HC resume, so the premiere candidates want to make their own decision. Should the Jets be offering final say over the roster to prospective candidates in order to lure a bigger fish? Or should Joe Douglas retain that control and look for the next up & comer? Please list the "Premiere" Head Coaches for whom this applies. Before I answer your question, I'd like to know who these "Premiere" Coaches are, specifically. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 lol @ this thread.....to be a fly on the wall for that conversation with Douglas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Warfish said: Please list the "Premiere" Head Coaches for whom this applies. Before I answer your question, I'd like to know who these "Premiere" Coaches are, specifically. Bill Belicheck? lol wouldnt it be amazing if he came here after all the years of not speaking to Mangini for leaving to coach us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 There’s no Bill Parcells or Belichick type of candidate out there that would demand that type of power. Douglas will continue to be the GM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Rhg1084 said: There’s no Bill Parcells or Belichick type of candidate out there that would demand that type of power. Douglas will continue to be the GM BTW Douglas had a better draft in year 1 than any GM not named Mike Tennenbaum has had in the last 20 years. I would also go out on a limb and say that the OL has been improved, which is not easy to do in 1 year. Fant has been very ok as has McGovern as has Bechton. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, k-met57 said: Bill Belicheck? lol wouldnt it be amazing if he came here after all the years of not speaking to Mangini for leaving to coach us No. No it wouldn't. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Yeah, no thanks. HC's are willing to sell out tomorrow and the day after for a shot at glory today (Parcells comes to mind). GMs have to worry about today and tomorrow (sustained success). What you need is a GM that hires a good coach so that they are both on the same page as opposed to the shotgun wedding which the Dicks seem so found of for whatever reason (Yeah, sure, other teams use this set up too... Well it isn't working for the Jets regardless of what other teams are doing). Plus, essentaily being the GM and HC is way too much responsibility. The coaches that have been both generally haven't done too well. You see it often with HCs that still try to be a coordinator too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprisalizer Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 Re: - too much work for the HC - in many of these instance, there is a GM who does the daily grind and scouting but they advise the HC. Mike Mayock for Gruden & the Raiders. Tough to find exactly who has what control but from what I have read - HC w/ final authority over the roster: Reid, Belechick, Payton, Carrol, Payton, Rivera, Gruden, O'Brien (did), Quinn (did), Rhule, HC w/o final say - Harbaugh, Tomlin, McVay, Pederson, McCarthy, Lynn, Reich, Nagy, Fangio, Taylor, Marrone, Gase, Patricia, Stefanski, Judge, Arians, Kingsbury, Flores, LaFleur, Vrabel, Zimmer, Shanahan, McDermott I used this article among others to try to piece this together: https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/2020-nfl-gm-rankings-bill-belichick-patriots It is pretty clear that "premier" HC (big names) have final say. Doesn't mean there are not good HC's who do not have final say - but most of those guys were "chances" taken by the franchise that hired them as 1st timers. Candidates this year who may/can demand final say as a condition of their employment: John Harbaugh, Pat Fitzgerald, maybe Brian Daboll, Matt Cambell & Eric Bienemy (over the final roster at least), Lincoln Riley. Candidates this year who cannot command any final say authority: Joe Brady, Arthur Smith, Dave Toub, Matt Eberflus or Chuck Pagano (NOOOOOO!). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, k-met57 said: BTW Douglas had a better draft in year 1 than any GM not named Mike Tennenbaum has had in the last 20 years. I would also go out on a limb and say that the OL has been improved, which is not easy to do in 1 year. Fant has been very ok as has McGovern as has Bechton. Belichick sucks as a GM also. Look at his draft history 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, k-met57 said: Bill Belicheck? lol wouldnt it be amazing if he came here after all the years of not speaking to Mangini for leaving to coach us Get us this guy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Reprisalizer said: Hearing more and more - if you want a premiere head coach, they have to have final say over the roster. The GM works for the HC, more or less. We can get technical about the roster and the draft but fact of the matter is, if you want a premiere HC, Joe Douglas needs to allow that HC to have final say over the roster. Otherwise, we are taking a chance on 2nd tier candidate. The win/loss record goes on the HC resume, so the premiere candidates want to make their own decision. Should the Jets be offering final say over the roster to prospective candidates in order to lure a bigger fish? Or should Joe Douglas retain that control and look for the next up & comer? They work on a consensus approach. If a HC wanted someone for the roster, he'd have to convince JD it was the correct move. And the reverse is true too. JD wouldn't give a HC a player he does not want or need. This is why it is important for JD to hire the HC. They have to share a vision. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Get us this guy! Matt Patricia?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 The HC in charge of contracts loses all "good guy" cred with his players. He can get someone to perform by saying he'll see to it & do everything in his power that the player is rewarded with an extension / raise / etc. without the team committing to this verbal promise. In a conventional setup, the HC wouldn't be a liar if the GM (even with HC consent behind the scenes) goes in another direction, should a better situation present itself. In a scenario where the HC has built a bond with a particular player, it's harder to cut (or fail to re-sign) him. A new HC could lose a locker room fast that way just 1 season later as the departed player can still say to teammates don't trust HC ____. It's good for a HC to have this separation. He has final say on the roster spots at the end of the summer, and who's active from week to week. That's enough. Beyond that is only a problem if the GM and HC are very poorly matched. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: There’s no Bill Parcells or Belichick type of candidate out there that would demand that type of power. Douglas will continue to be the GM Urban Meyer probably would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Lesson #1 as a GM, if the coach wants to sign a 37 year old RB for depth and for being a good team guy. Tell him to f off and fire him. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said: This. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2020 I wish I had final say over new threads. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Urban Meyer probably would. Looks like he might go to Jacksonville. Doubt he’s a candidate for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOJ Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 No 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I wish I had final say over new threads. Boom. Lock this one down, boys. Thread has peaked. Nothing more to see here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Once Woody sees the price tag for a premier HC, the discussion won’t even reach final roster control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 A premiere coach work for woody Johnson? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Rhg1084 said: There’s no Bill Parcells or Belichick type of candidate out there that would demand that type of power. Douglas will continue to be the GM what's funny.. both of these guys where terrible at constructing rosters. Both should have stuck to coaching only. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Morrissey said: what's funny.. both of these guys where terrible at constructing rosters. Both should have stuck to coaching only. Absolutely - Belichick has destroyed that New England roster with his inept drafting over the years. That team will be a disaster for a long time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Rhg1084 said: Belichick sucks as a GM also. Look at his draft history Compared to whose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said: Absolutely - Belichick has destroyed that New England roster with his inept drafting over the years. That team will be a disaster for a long time Hilarious take 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Ew Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 hours ago, jetstream23 said: Get us this guy! his final say in offesnive players has been, offensive... A LOSER w/o Brady. Staright up LOSER. W/ a winning %age about Mangini... JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!!!! Lucked into 2 dominat HOFers. Taylor and Brady. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Reprisalizer said: Hearing more and more - if you want a premiere head coach, they have to have final say over the roster. The GM works for the HC, more or less. We can get technical about the roster and the draft but fact of the matter is, if you want a premiere HC, Joe Douglas needs to allow that HC to have final say over the roster. Otherwise, we are taking a chance on 2nd tier candidate. The win/loss record goes on the HC resume, so the premiere candidates want to make their own decision. Should the Jets be offering final say over the roster to prospective candidates in order to lure a bigger fish? Or should Joe Douglas retain that control and look for the next up & comer? No what works best is when the HC respects and trusts the GM and vice versa. HC “I need to upgrade the CB position this year badly”. GM “understood we can do X in FA or X in the draft let me know what you think”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, jgb said: Compared to whose? What draft picks has he hit on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhg1084 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, jgb said: Hilarious take Why you think New England has a strong roster? Setup for a lot of future success ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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