Zach represented by Bosa's team and JD won't budge..

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Why would you draft a player second overall if you didn’t have confidence he’s finish out his deal?

One could ask why Trevor Lawrence signed a deal without offsets.  Maybe he's confident enough in himself.  I don't know, but I don't think we should just automatically roll over.  I think precedent *does* matter and it's been set now.  You don't want Zach holding out, but you also don't want to be the team everyone assumes they can squeeze for more 'stuff' in negotiations.  Both are significant.

Edit: So I got this flipped in my head.  No offsets is what the players want.  IMO the Jets should give Wilson the same terms Lawrence got.  

[Biggs]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

FWIW, Trevor did not get offset language in his contract.  So tell me why the Jets should just dole it out because some fans have ants in their pants?  One could just as easily argue that Zach and/or his agents are being unreasonable.  Seriously, not everything points in a straight line to being the fault of the Johnson brothers.

 

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/07/05/signed-and-sealed-trevor-lawrence-under-contract-jaguars/7865652002/

 

https://blackandteal.com/2021/07/05/trevor-lawrence-signs-rookie-contract/

 

Quote

Lawrence inked a four-year deal worth $36.8 million that includes $24.1 million in guaranteed money and the standard fifth-year option per Adam Schefter of ESPN. His signing bonus will be paid within 15 business days and the contract doesn’t have offset language, meaning that the Jags will still be on the hook even if they release him. Also, most of his compensation in 2022, 2023, and 2004 will come in roster bonuses.

 

The Jets are probably trying to put in offset langauge and defer his bonus.  Both tactics are hedges.  Money in hand is worth more than money deferred.  Money defered has to be collected or a bird in the hand is worth more than a bird in the bush.

The Jets and most of the NFL have used both defered payments and offset language to undermine the spirit of the rookie wage scale.  

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

One could ask why Trevor Lawrence signed a deal without offsets.  Maybe he's confident enough in himself.  I don't know, but I don't think we should just automatically roll over.  I think precedent *does* matter and it's been set now.  You don't want Zach holding out, but you also don't want to be the team everyone assumes they can squeeze for more 'stuff' in negotiations.  Both are significant.

He’s the second pick. If the Jets felt they needed to hedge or they didn’t want to dole out the contract in full then they should have traded the pick.

[Biggs]

8 minutes ago, nycdan said:

One could ask why Trevor Lawrence signed a deal without offsets.  Maybe he's confident enough in himself.  I don't know, but I don't think we should just automatically roll over.  I think precedent *does* matter and it's been set now.  You don't want Zach holding out, but you also don't want to be the team everyone assumes they can squeeze for more 'stuff' in negotiations.  Both are significant.

No offsets is what Zach wants.  You have this backwards. The Jets want offset langauge and probably want to defer his bonus as long as possible.  

[MichaelScott]

I honestly don't see how this BS is worth not having Zach walk through the door with the rest of his team on day 1. This needs to get done today. Any, even 1 practice missed is a big deal and too many, imo. Such stupid bs to not have your QB in camp on the first day. 

I guess that's why in a fan ??‍♂️

I'd seriously give anything to hear a behind closed door conversation with JD explaining to Saleh why this offset crap is such a big f'ing deal 

[Dinamite]

It is disappointing that he is not at camp today.  Yes, he will sign eventually, but this is just bad practice from all sides (the jets have a history of this with first round picks).

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

I'd seriously give anything to hear a behind closed door conversation with JD explaining to Saleh why this offset crap is such a big f'ing deal 

I don’t think Douglas is the problem here.

[sec101row23]

15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

https://blackandteal.com/2021/07/05/trevor-lawrence-signs-rookie-contract/

 

 

The Jets are probably trying to put in offset langauge and defer his bonus.  Both tactics are hedges.  Money in hand is worth more than money deferred.  Money defered has to be collected or a bird in the hand is worth more than a bird in the bush.

The Jets and most of the NFL have used both defered payments and offset language to undermine the spirit of the rookie wage scale.  

This is something that the Chargers have held fast on.  This is why they typically always have the longest holdouts regarding signing their first round picks.  Rashawn Slater the 13th pick this year is one of the 3 remaining first rounders not to sign. 

[MichaelScott]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t think Douglas is the problem here.

Interesting... What makes you think that?

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This is something that the Chargers have held fast on.  This is why they typically always have the longest holdouts regarding signing their first round picks.  Rashawn Slater the 13th pick this year is one of the 3 remaining first rounders not to sign. 

should be noted that the Chargers have terrible ownership as well.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Interesting... What makes you think that?

This same issue happened with Darnold. When it comes to actual money the Johnsons have to pay from their pocket book, they cheap out typically. This has no impact on the Jets cap, or the allotted dollars for the roster thats built into the CBA. This is the Johnsons trying to recoup money if Wilson is cut or gets suspended.

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Interesting... What makes you think that?

 

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

This same issue happened with Darnold. When it comes to actual money the Johnsons have to pay from their pocket book, they cheap out typically. This has no impact on the Jets cap, or the allotted dollars for the roster from thats built into theCBA. This is the Johnsons trying to recoup money if Wilson is cut or gets suspended.

^this. Every so often the Johnsons (Woody in particular) like to put on their big boy voice and act like they’re rock-ribbed businessmen, not trust fund dorks, and when they do they always end up doing something penny smart and pound foolish, like now

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

^this. Every so often the Johnsons (Woody in particular) like to put on their big boy voice and act like they’re rock-ribbed businessmen, not trust fund dorks, and when they do they always end up doing something penny smart and pound foolish, like now

Exactly. Zach’s in Cali practicing with his QB coach and his agent is dealing with this nonsense. Nothing more than that. 

[Jackie Treehorn]

8 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This same issue happened with Darnold. When it comes to actual money the Johnsons have to pay from their pocket book, they cheap out typically. This has no impact on the Jets cap, or the allotted dollars for the roster thats built into the CBA. This is the Johnsons trying to recoup money if Wilson is cut or gets suspended.

Sounds like a blueprint for how you eventually never get any good GM or HC to sign and stay with the Jets. No talent wants to operate under influence of such moronic decision making. 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Sounds like a blueprint for how you eventually never get any good GM or HC to sign and stay with the Jets. No talent wants to operate under influence of such moronic decision making. 

All these good vibes with a new regime and a new QB and the “we will support Zach” getting sucked out by the tennis bros. 

[sec101row23]

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

^this. Every so often the Johnsons (Woody in particular) like to put on their big boy voice and act like they’re rock-ribbed businessmen, not trust fund dorks, and when they do they always end up doing something penny smart and pound foolish, like now

Exactly. They have, and are still paying tens of millions to the s**tty coaches and GMs that are no longer here because they made terrible hiring decisions.   Squabbling over offset language that MIGHT cost you a few million dollars down the road isn’t where they should dig their heels in.  

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly. They have, and are still paying tens of millions to the s**tty coaches and GMs that are no longer here because they made terrible hiring decisions.   Squabbling over offset language that MIGHT cost you a few million dollars down the road isn’t where they should dig their heels in.  

What’s funny is these were coordinator hires and first time GM’s who were in the bottom tier of pay because the Johnsons never wanted to pay for experience. The same mistakes over and over to save a buck continues to blow up in their face. Wilson can easily say no thanks considering his situation. Worst case scenario obviously but I don’t see him budging like Darnold did.

[Jethead]

Irritating, not catastrophic. Woody's always been tone deaf.

[Action Zachtion]

Justin Fields did not have an offset either?  Ugh.  The Jets FO look like pinch penny idiots.

-----

NEWS

Important things to know as NY Jets open training camp

From Zach Wilson's contract to the full practice schedule, here are the top things to know as the NY Jets begin their 2021 training camp.

 

By Michael Nania - On 07/27/2021, 8:27 AM

 

Zach Wilson’s contract

As the New York Jets report to training camp today, Zach Wilson remains the team’s only unsigned rookie out of Joe Douglas‘ 10-player 2021 draft class. Wilson was in Southern California as recently as Monday afternoon, according to his Instagram.

 

ESPN’s Rich Cimini has reported that it appears Wilson’s team and the Jets are disputing over offset language in his contract. If offset language is present in a contract, the team recoups some money in the event that the player is released prior to the conclusion of the deal.

 

Fellow first-round quarterbacks Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields signed deals with no offsets, whereas the Jets are known to always include offsets in their deals, likely creating the dilemma. San Francisco quarterback Trey Lance, drafted one slot after Wilson, also remains unsigned (as does 13th overall pick Rashawn Slater of the Chargers).

[Ghost]

I’m annoyed. Wilson needs to be at camp with his teammates developing chemistry and camaraderie with his teammates. Rookies, especially QBs, need all the reps possible. Someone get this sh*t done. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Sounds like a blueprint for how you eventually never get any good GM or HC to sign and stay with the Jets. No talent wants to operate under influence of such moronic decision making. 

I highly doubt Woody is forcing JD's hand on the offset language. 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I highly doubt Woody is forcing JD's hand on the offset language. 

I'm pretty sure this is team policy and pre dates JD.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I highly doubt Woody is forcing JD's hand on the offset language. 

Why? It’s not JD’s money. It’s Woody’s. This has no impact on the salary cap or Douglas’s ability to sign players.

[JetFreak89]

How about nobody in this thread has any idea what Zach's camp or the Jets are negotiating in order to either include or exclude the offset language so untwist your panties. Missing a couple practices when he received 100% of first team snaps in OTA's is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. 

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

No offsets is what Zach wants.  You have this backwards. The Jets want offset langauge and probably want to defer his bonus as long as possible.  

You are correct.  I was up most of the night working and I flipped it in my head.  In total agreement that the Jets should just offer the same terms Lawrence got.

[FTL Jet Fan]

This is just another kick in the nuts, excuse the rant but all this BS talk of how we will lift up Wilson and not the other way around crap. We just lost a coach we have done everything so far for this kid then this happens, he is the priority, he is starting week ( as it stands know). It is typical Jet BS. 
 

I know some may say it’s not a big deal for him to miss a few days, well I feel it is especially after Knapp’s passing. I was Hoping to see some leadership qualities from Wilson also and make sure he is at camp. 

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

How about nobody in this thread has any idea what Zach's camp or the Jets are negotiating in order to either include or exclude the offset language so untwist your panties. Missing a couple practices when he received 100% of first team snaps in OTA's is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. 

Every long time Jets fans knows Woody is a turd.  

[Mogglez]

If Zach doesn’t sign by tomorrow’s practice, it will take all of one day with James Morgan and Mike White at QB1 for Douglas to cave in negotiations.

[kthisguy]

1.) Joe Douglas got every single Rookie signed during year #1 of 2020 last season. 
2.) Joe Douglas has every single Rookie signed during year #2 of 2021 (outside of Zach Wilson). 
3.) 1 spoiled brat of an ungrateful kid who's unsigned; in compared to 18 grateful and thankful Rookies signed over the past two drafts by Joe Douglas. 
4.) 18-1.
5.) So what are you talking about man?

Dealing with the number 2 pick and a QB to boot vs back dealing with other draft picks are very different animals.

I have never said a deal will not get done. When you are picking top 3 and player and agents expect that there will be no offset language nor bonus money being deferred. Later picks in the first round know there is a very high chance that offset language and deferred money are on the negotiating table.

Not sure I’d call Zack spoiled as he is entitled a X under the CBA and he should get all he can.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

Interesting... What makes you think that?

I'd like to take a crack at this.

Lets say I hire you to do a job for $50K a year for the next three years.  You dog it for the first two, and I fire you.  I still owe you $50K for that third year, but you go and work for someone else that third year for $40K.  If I agreed to pay you $50K for a year, and you find a job for $40K, why should I be on the hook for a whole $50K instead of $10K?  Then, you go on to be the best employee at that company.  Who is to say you didn't dog it on purpose so I would fire you, then go to the company you really wanted to be with AND get paid by me to go to said company you wanted to work for all along at an almost equal amount of earnings?

[sec101row23]

35 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s funny is these were coordinator hires and first time GM’s who were in the bottom tier of pay because the Johnsons never wanted to pay for experience. The same mistakes over and over to save a buck continues to blow up in their face. Wilson can easily say no thanks considering his situation. Worst case scenario obviously but I don’t see him budging like Darnold did.

IF Woody really wanted to send a message to the fan base that he was “all in” with this new staff and optimism, he would come out and say “even though we have typically included offset language with our past first round picks, we are so confident in our new staff and the new players brought in, I am going to bet on Zach and Coach Saleh and not include any offsets.”   
 

I actually think the fan base would react positively to Woody for the first time in a long time.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'd like to take a crack at this.

Lets say I hire you to do a job for $50K a year for the next three years.  You dog it for the first two, and I fire you.  I still owe you $50K for that third year, but you go and work for someone else that third year for $40K.  If I agreed to pay you $50K for a year, and you find a job for $40K, why should I be on the hook for a whole $50K instead of $10K?  Then, you go on to be the best employee at that company.  Who is to say you didn't dog it on purpose so I would fire you, then go to the company you really wanted to be with AND get paid by me to go to said company you wanted to work for all along at an almost equal amount of earnings?

If this is the Jets rationale then they shouldn’t have drafted him. You don’t hire people and hedge if they dog it. You hire people thinking they want to do a good job.

[Matt39]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

IF Woody really wanted to send a message to the fan base that he was “all in” with this new staff and optimism, he would come out and say “even though we have typically included offset language with our past first round picks, we are so confident in our new staff and the new players brought in, I am going to bet on Zach and Coach Saleh and not include any offsets.”   
 

I actually think the fan base would react positively to Woody for the first time in a long time.  

There is a zero percent chance that happens. I’m sure Woody would be shocked to learn fans even talk about this stuff.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'd like to take a crack at this.

Lets say I hire you to do a job for $50K a year for the next three years.  You dog it for the first two, and I fire you.  I still owe you $50K for that third year, but you go and work for someone else that third year for $40K.  If I agreed to pay you $50K for a year, and you find a job for $40K, why should I be on the hook for a whole $50K instead of $10K?  Then, you go on to be the best employee at that company.  Who is to say you didn't dog it on purpose so I would fire you, then go to the company you really wanted to be with AND get paid by me to go to said company you wanted to work for all along at an almost equal amount of earnings?

Not really a good analogy for professional sports though.  So Zach is going to dog it for 4 years just because he can double dip when he is cut?  Poor analogy. 

[CanadaSteve]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If this is the Jets rationale then they shouldn’t have drafted him.

So, in your logic, they shouldn't have drafted a player at #2 if they want to protect themselves as an organization?  Not sure I understand said logic.