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why was Gregg Williams so much better with essentially the same guys?

freestater

By freestater
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jetscrazey
jetscrazey

Maybe Gregg actually game-planned and adjusted the defensive scheme depending on the opponent, as opposed to Saleh who seems content to run 4-3 cover 3 base on 1st and 2nd down 95% of the time.  This

Joe W. Namath
Joe W. Namath

Oh look, another “why aren't we winning right now” thread.  The plan is to evaluate rookie players this year and next and get ready to be a good team starting on 2023.  Accept it and stop with th

jetswinbaby!
jetswinbaby!

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doitny

doitny

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the problem isnt so much the switch to a 4-3, its that were always playing nickel defense.

this year is the 1st year i can remember when i see the starting lineup have 2 LBs. now we know that changes 100 time during the game but to START the game like that. of course its easy to run against us with 2 LBs instead of 3. 

the thing that worries me is if we do get the right players to run this scheme i cant see it working. the RB still gets to the LBs cause the DL is rushing up field instead of having some play the gaps. unless that changes with a good Edge. 

well that sounds like we need some really good LBs. and they usually are not around in FA. and even if we get one in the draft can we get 3 or 4 ? cause if not then what are we just one or 2 injuries away from giving up 50 pts again? defenses dont fold because of injuries, not like that. 

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Kevin L

Kevin L

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4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

We've been running a 3-4 for 15 years and just switched to a 4-3. Most of the personnel in the front 7 was more well fit to the scheme Williams ran than the Saleh scheme Ulbrich is running. 

Losing our top edge rusher we brought in for a scheme that relies on a dominant edge didn't help.

Williams also has like 90 years experience as a DC vs. .5 for Ulbrich.

Considering Jamal Adams is just a glorified LB, we actually lost our top 2 edge rushers.

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Hex

Hex

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4 minutes ago, freestater said:

When those explanations are coupled with tired platitudes about trusting the plan etc, and void of any perceptible improvements,  they are excuses. 

I was making a joke, but it wasn't a very good one

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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1 minute ago, Irish Jet said:

Oh it’s definitely not the same. The group Williams had was much, much worse.

Than walk ons that were on the street the week before starting at CB or nickel?

Sounds good, problem is its not close to being a real thing 

But thanks for agreeing with my post, the D isnt close to being the same as a year ago when Williams was dumped for failing

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Green Ghost

Green Ghost

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Than walk ons that were on the street the week before starting at CB or nickel?

Sounds good, problem is its not close to being a real thing 

But thanks for agreeing with my post, the D isnt close to being the same as a year ago when Williams was dumped for failing

Replacing him has worked well so far though…. It’s so nice to see this plan we have now come together.

This all gas no brakes stuff has been a revelation.

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Rangers9

Rangers9

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9 hours ago, freestater said:

Serious question. If we had last years defense running, along with an improving offense, we'd be playing out December with some optimism. Instead, we're in the running for the worst defense of all time. When does the gas application and the abandonment of brakes begin, exactly? 

I’m not a big Greg Williams fan but I get your point and you can’t deny it. 

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Irish Jet

Irish Jet

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7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

He lost a game on a dumb ass zero blitz on the final play. It cost him his job. He still has no job. That speaks volumes.

Because he’s an egotistical fool. Could organise a defence though. If you can point to  one game where we just folded up front like Indianapolis then be my guest. 

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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11 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Because Gregg Williams is a far better coach.

That's fair, guys been coaching a very long time. He started out strong here and I think he got little bit scape goated in the end.

11 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Oh it’s definitely not the same. The group Williams had was much, much worse.

Really? I think maybe the D line is better now but the rest of the defense is either hurt or pretty new. 

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BCJet

BCJet

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16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I believe this is actually the reason why we're playing to poorly compared to last year.

It's a system transition.

This system allows for DT's to get after the QB more - and heavily rely's on LB's to be good.  The Jets LB situation is about as bad as can possibly be for an NFL team.

They'll retool the LB's this off-season, add an edge (or Lawson's back) and the defense will be fine.

Ok, fair assessment (and I do agree) but the question that should be raised is why are our DL who are excellent vs the run (Foley, QW and Phillips in particular) now getting gashed on a regular basis?

Tomorrow should be a great example of whether or not this defensive coaching staff has a clue.  The saint are without their top WR, have a very average TE and are playing a QB who struggles to push the ball downfield and outside the hashes.  So payton will be forced to focus on Kamara, read options, screen passes, etc.  This would be an opportunity to load the box, play single high, and do our best to limit Kamara and the run/screen game as much as possible.  Thats it - extremely simple. 

Unfortunately my guess is that we get gashed in the run/screen game yet again and the huge coaching advantage of Payton vs Ulbricht loses the game for the Jets.   We will see what happens.

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68JET11

68JET11

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17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've wanted to go to a 4-3 for some time but for whatever reason we are not getting anything out of it.  in theory with less restrictions of responsibility playing DE or DT instead of a 3-4 DE or nos tackle our 'good' dline should be wreaking havoc, but they are not.

I still cannot get over how wide we split our dline, something pittsburgh was doing last night making is so easy to run against.

The defense has been by FAR the most disappointing part of this team this year even if we have more threads on the ills of our offense and offensive players.

This defense is predicated on the edge rushers taking pressure off the DT's. Right now that is not happening because we don't have any edge rushers. JFM show's up once every 6 games, and No Lawson, or Huff. You've got basically 4 guys on offense blocking our 2 DT's. The TE's can chip our DE's and get away with it because we're not strong at those positions. I agree with the how wide we split our dline, and I don't understand that either. You'd think that they know they are getting gashed in the run game and just won't do anything to stop it. I truly think they are too stubborn to allow for a different defense based on the personal we've got on the field at the time. That and each offense we play might need a different game plan, which I never see planed for. We have a DC that says this is our defense, and that's all you're getting. Very Frustrating.

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Barton

Barton

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The front 7 is constantly out of position to make plays. And it always seems like the Dlineman are playing 3 yards away from each other, almost like its some kind of BS vanilla scrimmage defense. Easily the worst Jets defense I have ever seen.

It's a 1000% on coaching. People really think CJ Mosley sucks? Seriously? Guy was a 4x probowl and an allpro by the age of 26. You put him on a real defense right now and he'd look like himself again. 

The 2019 Jets allowed 22.4 PPG - top 20 in the league - with literally a group of castoffs and undrafted free agents. Are any of those guys fron that defense still in the league besides Quinnen and McClendon? I couldnt believe how decent the defense was that year - with that lack of talent.

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More Cowbell

More Cowbell

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17 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Oh look, another “why aren't we winning right now” thread. 

The plan is to evaluate rookie players this year and next and get ready to be a good team starting on 2023.  Accept it and stop with these terrible threads being opened just to whine more.

Love this. Only the Jets evaluate  players during the regular season. 

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