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why was Gregg Williams so much better with essentially the same guys?


freestater
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I've wanted to go to a 4-3 for some time but for whatever reason we are not getting anything out of it.  in theory with less restrictions of responsibility playing DE or DT instead of a 3-4 DE or nos tackle our 'good' dline should be wreaking havoc, but they are not.

I still cannot get over how wide we split our dline, something pittsburgh was doing last night making is so easy to run against.

The defense has been by FAR the most disappointing part of this team this year even if we have more threads on the ills of our offense and offensive players.

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25 minutes ago, freestater said:

Serious question. If we had last years defense running, along with an improving offense, we'd be playing out December with some optimism. Instead, we're in the running for the worst defense of all time. When does the gas application and the abandonment of brakes begin, exactly? 

Focus has been more on offense this year. Saleh isn't trying to improve the defense right now because it's not the priority. One offense can get running much better, then he will focus on defense. Like it or not, the offense is what matters to the coaches right now

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Let's assume you are talking about the roster we fielded in 2017 with Gregg when we went 7-9. Here are the players we had:

Defensive Starters          
LDE Henry Anderson 28 4 13 1.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered  
LDT Steve McLendon 33 9 16 2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered  
RDT Quinnen Williams 22 Rook 9 2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered  
LLB Jordan Jenkins 25 3 13 8.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered  
MLB James Burgess 25 2 10 0.5 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered  
RLB Neville Hewitt 26 4 12 3.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered  
LCB Nate Hairston 25 2 6 0.0 sacks, 1 interception, 0 fumbles recovered  
CB Darryl Roberts 29 3 10 0.0 sacks, 1 interception, 0 fumbles recovered  
SS Jamal Adams*+ 24 2 14 6.5 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered  
FS Marcus Maye 26 2 16 0.0 sacks, 1 interception, 0 fumbles recovered  
DB Brian Poole 27 3 10

So we have like 1 starter in common with that team, Quinnen. Also, people keep saying that this is Saleh's defense but I haven't seen concrete proof that that is true. I know in PS he was adamant that he was leaving the offense and defense to the coordinators. With that said, if the defense doesn't show any signs of improvement, I can see the team moving on from Ulbrich. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

Serious question. If we had last years defense running, along with an improving offense, we'd be playing out December with some optimism. Instead, we're in the running for the worst defense of all time. When does the gas application and the abandonment of brakes begin, exactly? 

It is disheartening I agree. But, the switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 has a lot of differences to it and the Dline is essentially the same players from last year QW, Foley, JFM, etc. They tried to help the switch with C. Lawson but we know how that went for this year. The same players having different gap responsibility seems to have been affecting them, and it is even possible some of these players are not great fits for this 4-3 D. But, they likely will all be OK moving forward if they get better DE Edge rushing that is sadly going to have to wait till next year when we draft and get Lawson back. The quick fix was getting the other Lawson Shaq who has not provided much at pass rushing, Huff, who was pretty good until he got hurt, and Zuniga, who needs more time or may be not very good or consistent ever. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

Serious question. If we had last years defense running, along with an improving offense, we'd be playing out December with some optimism. Instead, we're in the running for the worst defense of all time. When does the gas application and the abandonment of brakes begin, exactly? 

The improving offense is putting more pressure on the defense. This is the smoke & mirrors Rex used to have the #1 defense along with the Sanchez-led ground and pound. Also, Williams took over 3-4 personnel and ran primarily a 3-4 man, they’re installing a whole new 4-3 zone scheme now. Not to mention the injuries. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I've wanted to go to a 4-3 for some time but for whatever reason we are not getting anything out of it.  in theory with less restrictions of responsibility playing DE or DT instead of a 3-4 DE or nos tackle our 'good' dline should be wreaking havoc, but they are not.

I still cannot get over how wide we split our dline, something pittsburgh was doing last night making is so easy to run against.

The defense has been by FAR the most disappointing part of this team this year even if we have more threads on the ills of our offense and offensive players.

I believe this is actually the reason why we're playing to poorly compared to last year.

It's a system transition.

This system allows for DT's to get after the QB more - and heavily rely's on LB's to be good.  The Jets LB situation is about as bad as can possibly be for an NFL team.

They'll retool the LB's this off-season, add an edge (or Lawson's back) and the defense will be fine.

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2 minutes ago, MARTIN said:

please for the love of god can we get some real content on this forum. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much trash on this website nowadays

It is beyond awful and borderline unreadable.  We are in the best position we have been in since Parcells and 95% of Jet fans cant see it.

Jetnation has become Jetwhining.

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We've been running a 3-4 for 15 years and just switched to a 4-3. Most of the personnel in the front 7 was more well fit to the scheme Williams ran than the Saleh scheme Ulbrich is running. 

Losing our top edge rusher we brought in for a scheme that relies on a dominant edge didn't help.

Williams also has like 90 years experience as a DC vs. .5 for Ulbrich.

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Oh look, another “why aren't we winning right now” thread. 

The plan is to evaluate rookie players this year and next and get ready to be a good team starting on 2023.  Accept it and stop with these terrible threads being opened just to whine more.

What year do the excuses end?

Just trying to pin it down now. 

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47 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

It is beyond awful and borderline unreadable.  We are in the best position we have been in since Parcells and 95% of Jet fans cant see it.

Jetnation has become Jetwhining.

You could just go start a "I love being a bottomfeeding laughingstock of a franchise" thread and not saunter into this one if the whining bothers you so.

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