Jetnation: You’re on the clock with pick 4

[UntouchableCrew]

Increasingly I'm finding myself feeling like we're going to miss two two top edge guys in this draft -- but that it's a fairly deep draft at the position and we might be able to grab an EDGE at the top of Round 2.

[Sarge4Tide]

[bla bla bla]

I'd be surprised if we didn't have an opportunity to trade back if those 3 are off the board and the Giants are sitting behind us. Assuming no trade I'm looking at Karlaftis. Ideally I'm trading down from #4 to allow the Panthers, WFT, Saints, or Falcons to come up and get their QB ahead of the Giants.

[GreenFish]

14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

 

 

How do you think he'll test?

I'm worried that while he's a strong bull rusher and technician he doesn't really have the explosive athleticism for the next level. He reminds me of AJ Epenesa a little.

These were his numbers during HS Combine. 

6’4” 260lbs

40 time: 4.77

short shuttle: 4.53

Vertical: 30.9

 

That’s closer to Nick Bosa than AJ Epenesa. But we will see during the NFL combine.

[Alka]

9 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Karlaftis 

NO way, he has not had a great  2021, down significantly from his year in 2019.  

I will give you 3 viable picks at #4 in this scenario:

1. Derek Stingley, Jr.  -  The best cornerback in the draft.

2. Tyler Linderbaun-   The best center in the draft from the last several years.

3. Icky Ekwonu-     The most dominant run blocking tackle in the country.

And I don't want to hear about Kyle Hamilton, since there is no way the Jets should be drafting a safety with the #4 pick.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

These were his numbers during HS Combine. 

6’4” 260lbs

40 time: 4.77

short shuttle: 4.53

Vertical: 30.9

 

That’s closer to Nick Bosa than AJ Epenesa. But we will see during the NFL combine.

I want to see the 3 cone, but those would be encouraging.

[playtowinthegame]

If the Jets don't get the Edge they want then trade back. I don't want to see some other team a few picks behind them getting a sweetheart deal a lá the Dolphins last year. Jets made their commitment to Zach Wilson, now load up on more future picks.

[hawk]

It's hard to say without seeing which current 7th rounder jumps through the roof on his vertical, or something similar at the combine and is the next guy hyped into the top 10.

 

Or the Tops guys have some hidden flaw like a third nut or 7th finger or smoked a joint in grade school, or some other sh*t.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Besides the Eagles, who has 2 or more first round picks we can trade back to?  Pretty sure the answer is nobody.  Detroit does but they pick before us and then at the end of round 1.

Not sure accumulating draft capital for 2023 would be the way to go, given the amount of first round talent we need now and the finite amount of patience fans have.  

So unless the Eagles fall in love with a target and trade up, looks like we’ll be at #4 and around #7 (if not a little later)

#4:  Top WR on our board.  Worry about Burke’s ability to separate as he reminded me of Mim’s college tape with an ability to win contested balls but without the separation that jumped off the screen.  Obviously much more refined WR than Mims but my major concern is separation 

#7:  Ojabo IF he fits into a 4-3.  Some question whether he is a 3-4 LB only.  Upside is massive as he’s only been playing football for 5 years and has a wealth of translatable athletic traits + motor

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

 

 

How do you think he'll test?

I'm worried that while he's a strong bull rusher and technician he doesn't really have the explosive athleticism for the next level. He reminds me of AJ Epenesa a little.

From what I’ve watched/read/heard about Karlaftis and I know of Epenesa I don’t think they are similar at all.

I think Karlaftis gets overlooked immensely for his athleticism.  People hear really strong and high motor, both of which are true and immediately assume he’s labeled those because he’s not a “twitched up” athlete.  While he’s not Von Miller with burst and bend, I think he will test incredibly well.  I’d say look at TJ Watt for a testing comparisons maybe.   I’d say he’d test close to that.  Everyone talks about the Bosa brothers, I’d be be shocked if he doesn’t beat most of their numbers.

[Joe W. Namath]

There is 0 chance Douglas is going def w/ any of these first round picks.  These resources will be used to build the offense.  So ill say we will go cross at 4 and jameison williams at 7.

[HawkeyeJet]

41 minutes ago, Alka said:

NO way, he has not had a great  2021, down significantly from his year in 2019.  

I don’t think that’s accurate. His sack numbers are down.  His pressure rates are very high.  I believe he had the most pressures in the Big Ten.  His pressure rate in pass rush reps was higher than Chase Young’s.

If you don’t think he’s the guy, right on.  I have a feeling that if he’s not a Jet, in a few years he will be the name on here often brought up about how it was a mistake not taking him.

[Sarge4Tide]

9 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

There is 0 chance Douglas is going def w/ any of these first round picks.  These resources will be used to build the offense.  So ill say we will go cross at 4 and jameison williams at 7.

Be fine with me!

[derp]

8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

From what I’ve watched/read/heard about Karlaftis and I know of Epenesa I don’t think they are similar at all.

I think Karlaftis gets overlooked immensely for his athleticism.  People hear really strong and high motor, both of which are true and immediately assume he’s labeled those because he’s not a “twitched up” athlete.  While he’s not Von Miller with burst and bend, I think he will test incredibly well.  I’d say look at TJ Watt for a testing comparisons maybe.   I’d say he’d test close to that.  Everyone talks about the Bosa brothers, I’d be be shocked if he doesn’t beat most of their numbers.

The Bosa brothers produced like crazy though. Tons of guys beat their numbers but it doesn’t make them worthy of taking #4 overall.

I think in addition to people thinking not a twitched up athlete when they think of a strong, high motor guy - they also think of someone who’s really solid technically and good against the run - that’s also not Karlaftis. Hasn’t been playing football that long and is definitely still a raw prospect. 

Karlaftis is functionally probably closer to someone like Ziggy Ansah as a prospect than a lot of the guys who get tossed out there. Which is appropriate because this is being called the worst draft since 2013 and that’s when Ansah got drafted. The big difference is that Ansah was pretty much ideal tools wise. We don’t know how Karlaftis is going to test but at best we know with that build he’s going to get dinged for having short arms.

That plus the production question plus not being a day one guy…I just think you’re missing something on him in pretty much every section of trying to tick boxes and that’s a recipe for falling a little.

The other thing is the scheme they’re running and carried from SF - there seem to be two very different edge players. Arik Armstead and JFM are 290+ and Bosa and Carl Lawson are more 265. Karlaftis is 275 and pretty young. To me it makes the most sense to think he’s going to continue to grow and play the JFM side even if he comes up a little lighter - but JFM was extended already and the bigger need is probably the Lawson side. And maybe Karlaftis stays there but I think what this scheme wants from edges is a little different than what we traditionally think of and also people seem to forget about JFM. Even if you think he can be upgraded he’s here for at least a bit and given they extended him there’s a very real chance he’s part of the team’s long term plans.

[RedBeardedSavage]

Johnson’s athletic ability has been lauded since his high school days. That doesn’t always translate as your career progresses. However, for Johnson, it certainly has. He ran a 4.5 40-yard dash in high school, and there’s little to suggest that he won’t run that at 260 pounds at the NFL Combine. Against Alabama, he went toe to toe with Najee Harris, who ran a 4.45 at the 2021 NFL Combine.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jermaine-johnson-ii-florida-state-de-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2022/

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

NO way, he has not had a great  2021, down significantly from his year in 2019.  

I will give you 3 viable picks at #4 in this scenario:

1. Derek Stingley, Jr.  -  The best cornerback in the draft.

2. Tyler Linderbaun-   The best center in the draft from the last several years.

3. Icky Ekwonu-     The most dominant run blocking tackle in the country.

And I don't want to hear about Kyle Hamilton, since there is no way the Jets should be drafting a safety with the #4 pick.

Good choices, I'm taking the Center.

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I want to see the 3 cone, but those would be encouraging.

Yup. The combine will be important for him. But for now, i expect him to test in Bosa/Ferrell range athletically. It’s a risky range athletically because those guys are power guys and not guaranteed to transition to the NFL. Ferrell has been a bust. Guys like Thibs are almost locks to not bust because they are so dang athletic.

Karlaftis did not have a big year sack wise. Bosa was about to have a crazy year before he got hurt his junior year. 

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

In my original post I said Thibs Hutch and Neal are off the board. Who’s your pick 

You also said no trades but nobody listens. It was a good, realistic premise but nobody reads

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

NO way, he has not had a great  2021, down significantly from his year in 2019.  

I will give you 3 viable picks at #4 in this scenario:

1. Derek Stingley, Jr.  -  The best cornerback in the draft.

2. Tyler Linderbaun-   The best center in the draft from the last several years.

3. Icky Ekwonu-     The most dominant run blocking tackle in the country.

And I don't want to hear about Kyle Hamilton, since there is no way the Jets should be drafting a safety with the #4 pick.

No Safety @ 4 but a CB is ok??????

We need a safety way more than  a corner

[HawkeyeJet]

24 minutes ago, derp said:

The Bosa brothers produced like crazy though. Tons of guys beat their numbers but it doesn’t make them worthy of taking #4 overall.

 

Did they?  Joey Bosa had a huge Sophomore year after a good freshman year and a “down” junior year.  His sophomore year was huge though.

Nick Bosa never came anywhere near that level at OSU.  In fact, his career numbers are incredibly close to Karlaftis, just in different order.  Almost identical numbers in games played, sacks, TFL, etc for their careers.

This isn’t directed at you per se, but I think we all speak in far too definite terms when talking draft prospects.  It’s a crap shoot for even the best GMs.  I think Karlaftis will be a great pro.  I think the knocks on him based on production are missing some context, but it’s very possible I’m wrong.  He could be a complete bust.  However I do think when saying things like he wasn’t as productive as the Bosa’s to frame a point is subjective at best.

[HighPitch]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Jameson Williams.

IMO opinion the edge rushers at the too of this draft are not elite pass rushers. Jets need a second high end WR to pair with Moore.

agreed but the WR class isnt elite either and we need edge as bad as wr so.....

[CSNY]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

 

 

How do you think he'll test?

I'm worried that while he's a strong bull rusher and technician he doesn't really have the explosive athleticism for the next level. He reminds me of AJ Epenesa a little.

I agree with your observation. He will be an ok pro same as Hutch and Thibs I think Karlaftis plays a more rounded game than the other two but with that being said we don’t really need a steady defensive end we need an edge rusher that is explosive and consistently gets to the QB. Don’t think any of the big three edge rushers in this draft will provide what is desperately needed. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

There is 0 chance Douglas is going def w/ any of these first round picks.  These resources will be used to build the offense.  So ill say we will go cross at 4 and jameison williams at 7.

The Jets had the worst defense in the league this year. If Douglas isn't considering defense with any first round pick he's an idiot.

We're trying to run a wide-9 with no speed rushers other than a guy who had a season ending knee injury and may never be the same. We also need a dominant SAM to slow down the run so we can get into more pass situations. 

The idea that we're only going to look at offense in the first round is misguided at best.

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If we went "big" WR (not necessarily at 4, maybe with the Seahawks pick) how to people feel about Drake London vs. Treylon Burks?

I find myself going back and forth.

London reminds me of Brandon Marshall a little.

These two are the best wrs for us imo.

 

SO tired of midgets.

 

London is 6-5 215. Watch his tape. silky smooth

[Warfish]

Feels way to early for this, guys are gonna move up and down the boards before daft day.  Happens every cycle.

With that said, I think we're in a good spot to get a top Edge, top WR, a Center and Tight End in our first four picks.  That would be my preference.  

After that, invest in more DB's and WR's.  Can never have enough of either.

Ofcourse, got to see what we do in FA first, as that could change verything draft wise.

[Sonny Werblin]

10 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

agreed but the WR class isnt elite either and we need edge as bad as wr so.....

IMO the drop off at WR is far greater than at Edge.

[HighPitch]

London reminds me of Ed Mccaffery.

I checked mccaffery.........turns out he and drake both 6-5 215.

 

so there its a sign

[Rhg1084]

Just now, HighPitch said:

London reminds me of Ed Mccaffery.

I checked mccaffery.........turns out he and drake both 6-5 215.

 

so there its a sign

I doubt London is the 4th overall pick tho

[HighPitch]

1 minute ago, Rhg1084 said:

I doubt London is the 4th overall pick tho

yes agreed but  hes my #1 wr. the next pick maybe

[Joe W. Namath]

12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The Jets had the worst defense in the league this year. If Douglas isn't considering defense with any first round pick he's an idiot.

We're trying to run a wide-9 with no speed rushers other than a guy who had a season ending knee injury and may never be the same. We also need a dominant SAM to slow down the run so we can get into more pass situations. 

The idea that we're only going to look at offense in the first round is misguided at best.

No one is saying the defense doesnt need to be fixed.  But we need to fix the offense first.  When you have a rookie potential franchise qb, you dont stop building the offense when its only halfway done to build the defense.  That is misguided.  

The defense might struggle again next year.  And thats ok.  This isnt about being a great team next year.  This is a long term rebuild being done the correct way.

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 hours ago, thshadow said:

I know this isn't an answer to your question, but QBs always rise before the draft, and I think Detroit will take whichever one they convince themselves to fall in love with.

Though, if it goes Thibodeaux, QB, Hutchinson - is it really clear cut that we take Neal?

And the Giants aren't fooling anyone with their "we are good with Daniel Jones" nonsense. They are taking a QB also. 

They pick after us but they may try to trade up into top 2/3 to get the QB they want as well. 

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No one is saying the defense doesnt need to be fixed.  But we need to fix the offense first.  When you have a rookie potential franchise qb, you dont stop building the offense when its only halfway done to build the defense.  That is misguided.  

The defense might struggle again next year.  And thats ok.  This isnt about being a great team next year.  This is a long term rebuild being done the correct way.

A long term rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the defense in the draft. There are a couple of key pieces this defense needs.

The Jets need to win games in 2022 or the heat is going to turn up on Saleh & JD real quick. I get what you're saying but that part of the equation cannot be ignored. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

From what I’ve watched/read/heard about Karlaftis and I know of Epenesa I don’t think they are similar at all.

I think Karlaftis gets overlooked immensely for his athleticism.  People hear really strong and high motor, both of which are true and immediately assume he’s labeled those because he’s not a “twitched up” athlete.  While he’s not Von Miller with burst and bend, I think he will test incredibly well.  I’d say look at TJ Watt for a testing comparisons maybe.   I’d say he’d test close to that.  Everyone talks about the Bosa brothers, I’d be be shocked if he doesn’t beat most of their numbers.

If that's the case I could get on board. I'm worried we'd be overdrafting an edge out of need when there might be a comparable player at the top of Round 2. If he tests well (edge is one position where I care about testing numbers, especially 3 cone) it could make sense.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No one is saying the defense doesnt need to be fixed.  But we need to fix the offense first.  When you have a rookie potential franchise qb, you dont stop building the offense when its only halfway done to build the defense.  That is misguided.  

The defense might struggle again next year.  And thats ok.  This isnt about being a great team next year.  This is a long term rebuild being done the correct way.

We have 5 picks in the first 68ish picks. There is really no need to go into the draft thinking we HAVE to go Offense/offense or Defense/Defense or Offense/Defense with the first 2 picks. I think there is a strong case to be made that we need to have a more balanced draft this year. 

The offense needs more help, but I don't think we can ignore the defense like we have the first 2 years. We have seen this year that a defense that can't make a stop/flip the field/create a turnover actually hurts the development of a QB who can't get on the field or has to go 80 yards every drive. 

 

[FTL Jet Fan]

WR OL number one priority is the development of Wilson. Agree with Warfish still a little early in the process it will be interesting to see how the standings develop. I would no be surprised if they took Hamilton as he is the exact type of player this CS wants on the team.