Things that I think: Jets 2022 Offseason Edition

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

So basically nothings changed. Douglas will be stingy and go for bargain bin FAs. Yet we’re admiring Buffalo from afar. 

Cool. 

That is what you took from that entire write up?  LOL.

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The overarching theme here is this draft feels like it sucks overall. Feels like the Quinnen draft where we had to take him based on the high slot and available talent and walk away with that meh feeling. No QB's either, which makes the 4th spot even less appealing.

@T0mShane And if the Njoku, Claypool, and Ridley rumors are credible they're like the opposite of gritty self starters. In fact, I'd argue any of those guys are potential 3rd rail locker room ruiners. 

The Jets need to have the guys they are banking on stay healthy. Moore needs to get on the field. Point blank period. Get out of the trainers room and play, no excuses. Carter was an ankle sprain which is more black and white, so I'd expect him to be OK. Davis needs to get his head out of his ass. Just a lot of question marks still. If I'm Douglas im walking away with at least 2-3 WR's in this draft and at least two running backs. 

I wonder how many of the injuries the past few years are fixed by not playing so many meaningless games. What I mean is guys missing 3 weeks when if you were fighting for the playoffs they would be back sooner.  Time will tell I guess, hope they play meaningful games and then we can take it from there I guess.

[32EBoozer]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

A rather large issue I have re the dline actions is this.

"Oh we value a 7,8,9 man rotation"....so lets draft a dline high so he can sit his ass on the bench for 40% of the snaps or lets draft a great run stuffing dline that we can take out after two down every series.   Quinnen williams was at 51%, JF myers 61% of snaps.

If you draft a guy high he needs to be out there most every snap.

Glad to hear that TE is a priority but I'll believe it when i see it.  I am sure we will sign a guy but we need to draft two more.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/snap-counts/dl.php?show=perc
 

For reference.
While neither is Aaron Donald, their % of snaps is listed as higher on this site. 

[Green Ghost]

5 hours ago, undertow said:

Yeah the fact they gave Hooper a huge contract and also drafted a guy when Njoku was on the roster is a huge red flag.  I do think he's been semi productive unlike a guy like OJ Howard tho.

I agree with what you said about Howard, but let’s face it, either would be better than what we have.

If we can get one of them at a reasonable price, fine. Just don’t pay anywhere near what the top TEs get, because they’re not that.

[varjet]

I would have to think that if Neal and Ekwonu are that good but the Jets don’t need them, they could do a decent trade down.  
 

I think this is another draft where then players picked in the top 10 are meh but many picked 10-40 end up productive players.  

[BCJet]

10 hours ago, artemusclyde said:

Anything heard about the CB room? All the beat reporters are the saying the Jets pretty much only like Michael Carter and want to add a playmaker on one side and let all the other guys like Hall, Dunn, and Echols compete.

 

DJ Bien-Aime on Twitter: "As of today. Michael Carter II is the only guy who’s a penciled in starter for 2022 in the group." / Twitter

Connor Hughes on Twitter: "Jets would love to create a situation where they have a proven, ball-hawking corner on one side, then open up a three-way competition between Hall, Echols & Dunn on the other side." / Twitter

There is no reason on earth that Hall wouldnt be penciled in as a starter.  What do we want from these guys?

If they want to improve the position and draft someone, I trust them - but to compare hall to Dunn is an insult to how he has played his first 2 years in the league.

[Barton]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Most of this is outright depressing if that's where Douglas is actually headed.

• A top 4 OL pick
• AND he wants to keep Becton
• AND extend Fant
• AND extend McGovern
• AND re-sign LDT? 
• If he keeps those 3 (plus AVT) and inks LDT again for starter money, and still goes anywhere near an OL pick in round 1 (or signs Scherff for some $1.5-2MM/game) he should be fired just as quickly as if he takes a DT up there.

Hopefully this is just stuff he's purposely letting leak out. 

As far as targets for Wilson?

• Fine with Njoku, provided they also take a day 2 TE. Rumor is he badly doesn't want to leave Cleveland. 
• Also like that they'll look at a veteran WR but they "looked" and/or "were interested" last year, too, and this sounds like kick the tires on options unlikely to happen.
• The only thing that made me a little happier is that the Berrios...that his alleged $9MM demand rumor...allegedly isn't true.

So...

Over-value secondary/tertiary OL positions at #4 overall; draft a DT in round 1 when they just need a rotational player; wants to bring back Rankins, who sucked, at $5.5MM in new money; AND he wants to extend/re-sign FF at presumably at least that amount if that'll do it; and the only serious edge rusher plan is Carl Lawson, coming off a missed season, so he can potentially use a 1st/2nd round pick on a DT to replace a lost FA rotational run-stuffer?

Also not happy that my initial concern about the JFM extension may be spot-on (if this leak is true), which is that he's not drafting an edge rusher because he just poured serious $ into JFM's extension ~6 months after sinking even more into Lawson. 

Douglas is smoking ultra low-quality crack if most or all of this is accurate (and I'm holding out hope it isn't). If it is, though, this offseason will be as depressing as the one when they extended Mark Sanchez, because it means the Jets will never win a Super Bowl - and probably won't ever make the playoffs - with Douglas.

Fingers crossed that 90% of this doesn't happen.

 

The top of this draft is whacky. Zero elite offensive playmakers. Zero. Maybe a WR at #10.

At #4, who do you take?? I'm ok with an offensive tackle based on the current mock drafts. If not, who?

There's no Jamarr Chase/Pitts/Waddle to pass on at #4 this year, IMO.

[redlichtie]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Most of this is outright depressing if that's where Douglas is actually headed.

• A top 4 OL pick
• AND he wants to keep Becton
• AND extend Fant
• AND extend McGovern
• AND re-sign LDT? 
• If he keeps those 3 (plus AVT) and inks LDT again for starter money, and still goes anywhere near an OL pick in round 1 (or signs Scherff for some $1.5-2MM/game) he should be fired just as quickly as if he takes a DT up there.

Hopefully this is just stuff he's purposely letting leak out. 

As far as targets for Wilson?

• Fine with Njoku, provided they also take a day 2 TE. Rumor is he badly doesn't want to leave Cleveland. 
• Also like that they'll look at a veteran WR but they "looked" and/or "were interested" last year, too, and this sounds like kick the tires on options unlikely to happen.
• The only thing that made me a little happier is that the Berrios...that his alleged $9MM demand rumor...allegedly isn't true.

So...

Over-value secondary/tertiary OL positions at #4 overall; draft a DT in round 1 when they just need a rotational player; wants to bring back Rankins, who sucked, at $5.5MM in new money; AND he wants to extend/re-sign FF at presumably at least that amount if that'll do it; and the only serious edge rusher plan is Carl Lawson, coming off a missed season, so he can potentially use a 1st/2nd round pick on a DT to replace a lost FA rotational run-stuffer?

Also not happy that my initial concern about the JFM extension may be spot-on (if this leak is true), which is that he's not drafting an edge rusher because he just poured serious $ into JFM's extension ~6 months after sinking even more into Lawson. 

Douglas is smoking ultra low-quality crack if most or all of this is accurate (and I'm holding out hope it isn't). If it is, though, this offseason will be as depressing as the one when they extended Mark Sanchez, because it means the Jets will never win a Super Bowl - and probably won't ever make the playoffs - with Douglas.

Fingers crossed that 90% of this doesn't happen.

Great post….I have to believe, for my sanity, that this is all so far off base as to be an utterly brilliant piece of deliberate misdirection and misinformation….no wish to cast aspersions on the credibility of the OP who’s put a lot of work into a well thought out and constructive thread starter that has a lot more value than so many viewpoints around here but so much of this just smacks of guesswork, extremely articulate guesswork, but guesswork all the same….if it isn’t, and this is actually the way our GM is thinking, then we are stuffed

[redlichtie]

6 hours ago, Maxman said:

I wonder how many of the injuries the past few years are fixed by not playing so many meaningless games. What I mean is guys missing 3 weeks when if you were fighting for the playoffs they would be back sooner.  Time will tell I guess, hope they play meaningful games and then we can take it from there I guess.

If this is true, then Blake Cashman truly is one of the great visionaries of our time

[RutgersJetFan]

It sounds like we’re in for a pretty underwhelming offseason. This continue to build sh*t is getting old. Put a winner on the field already. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

14 hours ago, football guy said:

Chalk this up as a rumor thread, a discussion thread, or just general discussion. As far as my initial points, they're a combination of my own observations from studying this administration over the past year-plus, conversations with people in the league, my own scouting/pulse on a situation, and media sources. I'll do my best to point out which is which. I also hope others on here will contribute because I've come to learn there are a lot of guys on here that contribute some quality stuff - whether it be information or takes

 

The priority of this offseason is to continue building around the QB position. This has been a popular topic addressed by the beat-writers, but it's been made very clear within the organization that they need to build around the QB position if they're to be successful. The way the Jets see it, there's no downside if your properly surrounding the QB position with talent. The Jets front office has admired Buffalo from afar (and to some extent Baltimore - where Douglas cut his teeth for over a decade) and when they tackled their 2021 coaching search, they wanted to somewhat replicate their model of having a stern yet player-friendly "CEO" style coach with an excellent, innovative offensive coaching staff and scheme and a uniform philosophy of building the team through the lines of scrimmage. Not only did they feel that model was most sustainable in today's game, but they felt that model was best for getting the most out of a talented young QB. Both Douglas and Saleh share similar experiences being on teams that have won in-spite of the QB play, so in their mind it isn't just about propping up Wilson, it's propping up the entire room. 

 

The particular focus early in the draft will be on the lines of scrimmage. This one seems obvious, but emphasizing it because there's been a lot of mocks out there ignoring the OL/DL in round 1. Even before Saleh, this was, is, and will continue to be Douglas's MO. He has a lot of conviction as it relates to the LOS, and if it were up to him (it is) he would take an OL in round 1 every year. Saleh is in lockstep with him. This year, you can be sure they're going to address both lines of scrimmage, and could do so with both their first-round picks.

• OFFENSIVE LINE: the team wants to improve the offensive line and continue funneling talent into that group, but make no mistake, Joe Douglas and his staff do not want to see Becton on the bench next year. In recent years, Joe Douglas was salivating at the opportunity to sign one of Brandon Scherff or Joe Thuney, but was never given a realistic chance. He also had interest in Graham Glasgow back in 2020. Clearly, Douglas hasn't been afraid to spend money or draft capital on offensive linemen so on the surface it would seem like the Jets would go in heavy for Scherff, but based on what I've gathered, I don't get the sense this one will come to fruition for a few reasons: (1) the Jets will look into extending both Fant and McGovern as they've played their way into new contracts; and (2) signing a RG of Scherff's caliber comes with caveats - specifically as it relates to flexibility and how Becton fits in the overall construction of the OL. The frustration with Becton is out in the open and moving him to RT is likely going to be the case, but the Jets don't really see it as a demotion as much as Becton's camp does. RT is just as important as LT in this scheme and is especially important in the run game, and if anything, playing him at RT would allow them to great more creative with the scheme and playcalling. Also, it would be easier for them to adjust their scheme to account for a lesser talent at RT if Becton were to miss time than it would be to replace a LT. Having been said, if the Jets find themselves in a position where they add a high-profile FA guard and have a tackle staring them in the face at #4 or #10, Douglas is going to find himself in a very tough spot because he is not prepared to give up on Becton. For this reason, I think the more likely scenario to play out is re-signing Laurent Duvernay-Tardif (or a similar caliber player), drafting an OL in round 1. I believe Evan Neal goes #1, so it would likely be Ikem Ekwonu at #4 or Trevor Penning later, then bring everyone in to compete for the top 5 spots. 
• DEFENSIVE LINE: mark this under obvious, but this is going to be another group that the Jets focus on in 2022. Ideally they would like a steady rotation of 8 DL: 4-to-5 DEs and 4-to-5 DTs. They have a solid interior, but I would expect some change in 2022. They ran a ton of wide-9 fronts in 2021, basically lining up the DTs on the outside of the OGs and the DEs wide outside of the OTs. Quinnen Williams missed some time, but he's the keystone of the group. He primarily lined up over the LG, playing most of his snaps as a pure 3-tech on the right side of the line. Nathan Shepherd, a free agent, was essentially his direct backup. My guess is he signs elsewhere. They want to bring back Folorunso Fatukasi, who played served as the teams primarily "run stuffing" DL/NT in the 1/2i-tech. Personally, I'm not confident this gets done. Both the FA and draft interior DL classes aren't deep, which could result in Foley's market gets pumped up. The Jets value him and will submit an offer, but he may need to be willing to take a "hometown discount" for it to get done. By nature of Saleh's philosophy the team will always look to have a heavy DL rotation, coupled with a big contract on the horizon for Quinnen, I don't see them making a big investment on Foley. Sheldon Rankins essentially replaced Foley on passing downs, playing on the left side of the DL or a passing down NT. I don't get the sense he will get cut, nor do I see his role really changing much, so if he does return my guess is he remains as the "6th man" of the interior DL and could see his usage scaled back to make way for JFM at the LDT spot more often. If that were the case, they may need to sign another veteran to take over Foley's early-down work or consider Jonathan Marshall in that spot. There's also the possibility that the Jets could take one of the top interior DL early in the draft... Fans are going to hate this, but I want to provide the disclaimer: do not rule out a high pick on Jordan Davis or Travis Jones. If they went that route, Davis/Jones would be the long-term answer at "left" DT/NT and could likely play all 3 downs, albeit their usage would be scaled back.  John Franklin-Myers will likely stay at LE in base formats, my guess is he will see more snaps in the interior this upcoming season. He was most effective lining up at the 3/4/5-tech spots with rather than a LEO, which lines up at the 7/9-tech. If the Jets were to move on from Rankins, my guess is JFM would see his LEO usage scaled back substantially. Kyle Phillips essentially operated as JFM's backup at the LEO spot only. I would think he'll be back as a RFA but haven't heard anything and it may be tied to how they feel about Jabari Zuniga and Hamilcar Rashed as backups. Either way, I am sure they will look for upgrades. Carl Lawson is going to slide right into the RE spot vacated by Shaq Lawson. The Jets "like" Bryce Huff, Ronnie Blair, and Tim Ward, all of whom primarily backed up Shaq Lawson at the RE spot, but they're not liked enough to prevent the team from upgrading. Again, I think back to how the construction of the Buffalo Bills have been a team Douglas admires from afar and can't help but wonder if he takes a similar approach that they have by investing several Day 1-2 picks in DEs starting with this draft. I wouldn't rule out a veteran acquisition - specifically Derek Barnett - who is close with members of the Jets coaching staff and front office dating back to their days together in PHI. Barnett did not adjust well to Gannon's defense, which limited the "wide 9" usage that he grew accustomed to during his time in PHI. The Jets were interested in Barnett before landing Carl Lawson, so you wonder if they would consider bringing him in if the price was right... if so, he would likely occupy that Bryce Huff/Ronnie Blair role as a backup. More likely, the Jets will look to add via the draft. Everything I've read and heard suggests the NFL is lower on Kayvon Thibodeaux than the media and fans; it's to the point where others who I trust that say he may not crack the Jets top 4 DE prospects. I think it's more likely the team takes a DE with their #10 pick (or later). 3 names to keep an eye on in round 1 are Jermaine Johnson, Travon Walker, and George Karlaftis. It wouldn't at all shock me if they double-dipped and selected someone like Arnold Ebiketie, Kingsley Enagbare, or Boye Mafe in the second frame. 

 

The team will invest heavily in the TE position. Everyone associated with the Jets knows that their TEs weren't good enough last year. They tried to sign Jonnu Smith in free agency, but saw him join the rival Patriots. They were high on Tommy Tremble in the 2021 draft, but after trading out of the 3rd round there really wasn't a chance to get him. One thing I'm sure of: this position will be the priority in free agency, and I have heard they are going to prioritize is David Njoku. The Browns want him back, but the question is how badly? Will they franchise tag him or make him among the higher paid players at the position when they have really good players in Austin Hooper and Harrison Bryant on the roster? Time will tell, but if he makes it to the market, I would handicap the Jets as the favorite. If he's not available, it's hard to say who they would pivot to at the moment... best guesses are OJ Howard, Tyler Conklin, or Hayden Hurst. I don't get the sense the draft is filled with guys who the Jets would take in round 2 unless they moved down. More likely, that's a position they would target in rounds 3-5. There are a ton of TEs in this years class who don't get enough love, so don't be surprised if it were someone not-named Ruckert or McBride when all is said and done. 

 

How the Jets address the WR position is a hotly debated topic at 1 Jets Drive. It's been discussed with virtually everyone in the organization from ownership down to Zach Wilson himself. The certainly know that continuing to add to the WR room is a priority, but how they go about it is an entirely different story. They want Braxton Berrios back, and no, he’s not asking for $9 million a year. I think that deal gets done. They believe wholeheartedly that Elijah Moore will be an upper-echelon receiver. They think Corey Davis will show better in 2022. Still, the preference is to add a veteran, but they don't want to sign a guy just to sign a guy. Last year they were prepared to go hard after Chris Godwin had he made it to the open market; all I’ve heard with him is that he’s likely to return to TB (besides, not sure how the Jets would feel about him coming off the ACL). They have enough receivers in the room for depth purposes and will look to add someone in the draft, so carrying 6+ vets again is unlikely. Despite their feeling that Moore is a "#1" guy, they want to explore a trade for a "WR1-caliber" player, with Calvin Ridley among the most sought after names. Jeremy Fowler recently suggested Chase Claypool and rumors have connected Amari Cooper, but Ridley is the only one I’ve actually heard that will be a target. If they can't land one, they may hold off and look to acquire one in the draft, more likely on Day 2 than 1. I’ve read all the rumors connecting the Jets to the top WRs in the draft; I’ve heard some Drake London and Garrett Wilson chatter. Still, I’m not sure they would view either as an option to select at #10. More likely, I wouldn’t be surprised if they targeted someone in rounds 2-3 instead. Christian Watson has a lot of fans…

[GreenFish]

45 minutes ago, Barton said:

 

The top of this draft is whacky. Zero elite offensive playmakers. Zero. Maybe a WR at #10.

At #4, who do you take?? I'm ok with an offensive tackle based on the current mock drafts. If not, who?

There's no Jamarr Chase/Pitts/Waddle to pass on at #4 this year, IMO.

If a player is good enough to be taking at #10, you can take him at #4. I remember wanting Brian Burns who went #16 instead of Quinnen. But Burns was supposedly a reach because of the big boards. I’d much rather have Burns on my team than Quinnen.

Pending combine data and free agency, I’d take Hutchinson, Thibs, Ojabo, Karlaftis, Burks and Garrett Wilson at #4 before Ekwonu or Neal. Those guys may not be elite but I expect their impact to greater than a guy who we likely stick at guard and possibly move to RT down the road.

[section314]

Nice writeup. 1) agree with you that DT will be a priority, and also that it will be addressed way higher than many will like. It was the most obvious defensive problem all year. 2) have never really gotten all the love for Njouku, always been more of an Evan Engram guy. That said, after watching how Mayfield basically got OBJ traded out of Cleveland, and how well he played for LA, the lack of targets and production for Njouku seems to be more explainable.

[Guilhermezmc]

This seems like a jets thing to do pass on kayvon thibodeaux to draft a slow ass DT 

[Matt39]

If the Jets do DT with their first four picks then Douglas can take a walk,

[derp]

7 hours ago, doitny said:

you mean Cincy, the Rams had none.

the Jets can draft anybody they want, just not OL. and especially not as high as 4.

3 out of 44 SB teams. you want to try to be #4 ? you want to try to do what 6% of the teams do and never succeed? 

No, I don’t. I meant my statement literally. The Rams had one player they drafted in the first round on their roster. Aaron Donald.

So if we go by what they did, the Jets can only draft defensive tackles and trade their picks right?

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Another thing he mentioned was "the NFL is lower on Kayvon Thibodeaux than the media and fans; it's to the point where others who I trust that say he may not crack the Jets top 4 DE prospects".  I know you value Edge but what if the value is just not there?  Basically, what if our needs don't line up with what the draft is offering?  And trading down at #4 might not be possible if there's not QB teams are fighting for. 

Trading down is pretty much always possible. This is a common fan myth that no GM is smitten enough with anyone to worry about settling for their 2nd choice. There's always some match between value and need. Every time there's a team on the clock we see they're always on the phones - and it isn't always just calling prospects to gauge their excitement (or depression, if it's the Jets). 

There were times it was truly not possible to trade down before the ~2010 CBA created the tiered rookie contracts. Before that, a top 5 draft pick would get established pro bowler money & guarantees, and sometimes no one wanted to take on those contracts (e.g. Alex Smith) on top of the cost of trading up outright.  

There may be more or less than chart value in one draft or another, depending on the perceived strength of the class up top and/or throughout, but it can always be done. 2013's top 10 was known to be weak - ffs two guards and a 5'8" WR went in the top 10, while a couple QBs rumored to go that high dropped to rounds 2 and 3 outright - and even still there were two trade-downs. That doesn't include any other trade down opportunities that other teams turned down.

Multiple GMs - especially ones picking within range of #4 - always have a future pick to surrender and/or a player they wouldn't mind parting with (while providing needed cap relief), while eyeing a prospect they truly like above all others, no matter what they say publicly. And all it takes is one such GM.

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Trading down is pretty much always possible. This is a common fan myth that no GM is smitten enough with anyone to worry about settling for their 2nd choice. There's always some match between value and need. Every time there's a team on the clock we see they're always on the phones - and it isn't always just calling prospects to gauge their excitement (or depression, if it's the Jets). 

There were times it was truly not possible to trade down before the ~2010 CBA created the tiered rookie contracts. Before that, a top 5 draft pick would get established pro bowler money & guarantees, and sometimes no one wanted to take on those contracts (e.g. Alex Smith) on top of the cost of trading up outright.  

There may be more or less than chart value in one draft or another, depending on the perceived strength of the class up top and/or throughout, but it can always be done. 2013's top 10 was known to be weak - ffs two guards and a 5'8" WR went in the top 10, while a couple QBs rumored to go that high dropped to rounds 2 and 3 outright - and even still there were two trade-downs. That doesn't include any other trade down opportunities that other teams turned down.

Multiple GMs - especially ones picking within range of #4 - always have a future pick to surrender and/or a player they wouldn't mind parting with (while providing needed cap relief), while eyeing a prospect they truly like above all others, no matter what they say publicly. And all it takes is one such GM.

That's it in a nutshell. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

I’m leaning towards edge at 4 and 10.

Tight end and Linebacker in round 2, and hope Watson is still around in the third if they don’t add a vet receiver.

 

Spend the ******* money Joe. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

 

The top of this draft is whacky. Zero elite offensive playmakers. Zero. Maybe a WR at #10.

At #4, who do you take?? I'm ok with an offensive tackle based on the current mock drafts. If not, who?

There's no Jamarr Chase/Pitts/Waddle to pass on at #4 this year, IMO.

Ideally they'd trade down if an edge rusher isn't right there. Too early to tell before the combine & pro days. Every year people assume the players projected 1-10 stay that way, and every year things move around. 

I wouldn't touch an OT unless they'd already traded Becton, and even then I'm not that thrilled. I certainly wouldn't touch a 289-pound center in any round 1 slot this year.

[slats]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Most of this is outright depressing if that's where Douglas is actually headed.

• A top 4 OL pick
• AND he wants to keep Becton
• AND extend Fant
• AND extend McGovern
• AND re-sign LDT? 
• If he keeps those 3 (plus AVT) and inks LDT again for starter money, and still goes anywhere near an OL pick in round 1 (or signs Scherff for some $1.5-2MM/game) he should be fired just as quickly as if he takes a DT up there.

Hopefully this is just stuff he's purposely letting leak out.

Yeah, this has me legitimately concerned. I understand the importance of having a good OL, but this desire to have the best in the history of the sport is foolishness. It’s a team game, build the whole team. Really hoping a lot of those ANDs are really and/ors with close to zero possibility of yet another first rounder spent there. Or, like you said, maybe he’s happy to have people think he’s OL obsessed and a couple are off the board before he picks. 

[CanadaSteve]

15 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I agree that Douglas is OL obsessed, and for good reason.  But, a GM worth his salt needs to be able to find OL talent outside of top 10 picks.  We also need playmakers, on both sides of the ball, and devoting all our top picks to the line makes that significantly harder to do.

I'd love to see us go Edge (4) then WR (10), and then, where he earns his money is by finding guys who can start in round 2 and 3 on the line.  That said, I recognized the Thibs/work ethic issue, and this draft may not line up to do that.  Still, I'd rather us not be fishing for a playmaker on either side of the ball on day 3 when we have the opportunity on day 1.

True.  It will be hard to justify spending the #4 pick on the OL if we sign Fant to any length of term and keep Becton.  That said, the talent of Ekwonu or Cross might be too good to pass up.  You take them and have AVT, Becton and Ekwonu all on rookie deals.  Then, when it comes time and you can't afford one, you still have the two others.  Depth is a good thing, especially on OL.  Something we haven't had in YEARS.

I would love to see a center/guard picked in rounds 3 or 4 to develop.  I think Clark could have been a good guard for us, but unfortunately the injury forced him to retire.  Can't blame the GM for that one. 

I also think JD should get kudos for finding LDT in the trade route.  THAT was a great trade.  Another way to find OL help.

 

[Matt39]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

I wonder how many of the injuries the past few years are fixed by not playing so many meaningless games. What I mean is guys missing 3 weeks when if you were fighting for the playoffs they would be back sooner.  Time will tell I guess, hope they play meaningful games and then we can take it from there I guess.

Meh. Moore just needs to get on the field. With a rookie QB there’s no way they were holding him back from playing.

[Sperm Edwards]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, this has me legitimately concerned. I understand the importance of having a good OL, but this desire to have the best in the history of the sport is foolishness. It’s a team game, build the whole team. Really hoping a lot of those ANDs are really and/ors with close to zero possibility of yet another first rounder spent there. Or, like you said, maybe he’s happy to have people think he’s OL obsessed and a couple are off the board before he picks. 

Man, I hope so.

They have 3 locked in starters in Fant + AVT + McGovern. One a 2nd year 1st rounder they love, and the other two are 29 & 30 year old veterans they want to extend, including a starting LT whose strength is pass protection. Then if this is to be believed, he feels Becton will be the RT, too. So unless Becton falls flat on his face again, that'll be a top 4 LT prospect to fill the #2 guard position just a year after burning a 1st rounder and two more day-2 picks for one.

A team's #2 guard is a sub-$10MM hole to fill, and a championship team fills that spot with a 3rd-4th round pick or other low-cost player. Maybe with the Jets this year I could deal with a round 2 pick specifically because they have so many picks again, but holy hell not another 1st (let alone top 5). It's not like these guys are manning up on anyone in 1-on-1 matchups they have to win on every snap.

Is this OL-guru GM that bad at identifying OL talent that he can only sign NFL veterans and draft 1st rounders (top half of the first round at that, since pick #23 wasn't a high enough slot to draft a friggin' guard in an OL-rich draft)? I like AVT so far, but that trade-up wasn't free, and probably not necessary.

[Matt39]

13 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

True.  It will be hard to justify spending the #4 pick on the OL if we sign Fant to any length of term and keep Becton.  That said, the talent of Ekwonu or Cross might be too good to pass up.  You take them and have AVT, Becton and Ekwonu all on rookie deals.  Then, when it comes time and you can't afford one, you still have the two others.  Depth is a good thing, especially on OL.  Something we haven't had in YEARS.

I would love to see a center/guard picked in rounds 3 or 4 to develop.  I think Clark could have been a good guard for us, but unfortunately the injury forced him to retire.  Can't blame the GM for that one. 

I also think JD should get kudos for finding LDT in the trade route.  THAT was a great trade.  Another way to find OL help.

 

If the Jets go oline at 4 Becton won’t be on the team.

[football guy]

11 hours ago, KRL said:

@football guy prime info as always a couple of questions:

- What does the staff think of Yeboah at TE?  If they think he has promise, I
could see them combining him with Njoku to be the pass catchers.  Then add
some like Jake Ferguson (Wisc) in the draft with Wesco to be blockers

- What does the staff think of Berrios?  Is he a returner and a "gadget WR"
or do they think he can develop into a legitimate weapon

- Does someone like Christian Kirk (ARZ) fit their profile at WR as a free agent?

- You didn't mention any LB upgrades.  Williams flashed a ton of raw ability but
has to be refined.  What about the other OLB spot, do they like Devin Lloyd (Utah)
or Nakobe Dean (Georgia)?

- And as far as safety is concerned I think its imperative they add a veteran in
free agency to settle down (run) the secondary.  Any names we should look for?
 

I haven’t heard anything on Yeboah. He has upside but my guess is they don’t plan on him being anything more than a 3rd or 4th TE for 2022. It sounds like they really want to attack that group this year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them sign Njoku, then spend a day 2 and day 3 pick on some guys. 

Berrios can be a solid starting slot receiver who can have his own package of “exotic” plays and execute them at a high level. Coaching staff loves him, Zach loves him. He’s extremely valuable as a kind of “hybrid” player that can contribute in a variety of ways. He’s not going to be able to fill in at X or Z in place of Elijah Moore if he’s to miss time, but he can take on his “gadget” plays in a pinch and be featured in the slot. He may never be better than Crowder purely from a receiver perspective, but there’s things that he can do which are really valuable to this offense that Crowder could not do. 

Kirk fits but haven’t heard anything connecting him to the Jets at this point.

I don’t think LB will be a priority, but they’ll be opportunistic (think Day 2-3).

I’m trying to find out more about their safety and corner plans. I do believe they will try to get in on Marcus Williams but there’s going to be a ton of competition for him. I think it’s more likely they add a low-key addition in FA (maybe FS Jaquiski Tartt, who played for Saleh, or S Terrell Edmunds) and tackle it in the draft. I personally will not rule out Kyle Hamilton even if it’s not a move this administration would traditionally make. James Bradberry is a name to keep an eye on at CB. I think this is a draft fallback more so than a priority 

[slats]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

If a player is good enough to be taking at #10, you can take him at #4. I remember wanting Brian Burns who went #16 instead of Quinnen. But Burns was supposedly a reach because of the big boards. I’d much rather have Burns on my team than Quinnen.

Pending combine data and free agency, I’d take Hutchinson, Thibs, Ojabo, Karlaftis, Burks and Garrett Wilson at #4 before Ekwonu or Neal. Those guys may not be elite but I expect their impact to greater than a guy who we likely stick at guard and possibly move to RT down the road.

That first line is key for me. I tend to doubt that the top Edge on their board will be rated significantly lower than the OTs - if at all. There’s a long time between now and the draft and the combine and pro days will move some of these guys up & down. 
 
The team’s top needs are pass rush and receivers. The top of this draft has pass rushers. If they really want one who they’d like at #10 but don’t think he’ll make it there, then take him at #4 and be done with it. The Jets just converted to the 4-3 after two decades of 3-4 defenses. They need the right players to fit this scheme. A front four of Lawson-QW—JFM-#4 pick could easily have all of us a lot less concerned about the secondary. They could use a LB that fits, too, but the reality is that they’ll be lined up 4-2-5 most of the time, anyway. But can we stop pretending that defense isn’t important? 
 
I want a solid OL, too, and we had one the second half of last year. Biggest problems were the learning curve on the zone scheme and GVR. Once they got somewhat up to speed and brought in LDT, they were significantly better. So extend Fant, resign or upgrade LDT and resign Moses or bring in another starting caliber swing tackle, and the OL is good. If Becton can stay on the field, it’ll be better than last year with him at RT plowing over defenders in the running game. After that, Zach needs a couple guys who can get open in under two seconds. 

[varjet]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If the Jets go oline at 4 Becton won’t be on the team.

The only way it makes sense to take OL at 4 is if the plan is to not exercise Bectons 5th year option.  I would not at this point.  If that is the case you have your 3 starting tackles, Rg and a long term plan.   The better plan could be to trade Becton.  
 

The Jets at this point are not the team that manages players with less than perfect character.  They need a better base.  

[redlichtie]

21 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, this has me legitimately concerned. I understand the importance of having a good OL, but this desire to have the best in the history of the sport is foolishness. It’s a team game, build the whole team. Really hoping a lot of those ANDs are really and/ors with close to zero possibility of yet another first rounder spent there. Or, like you said, maybe he’s happy to have people think he’s OL obsessed and a couple are off the board before he picks. 

totally agree…the Colts & Lions have ploughed 1st round picks into the OL repeatedly and look where that has got them? Same with Dallas… Meanwhile we’ve just seen a super bowl contested between 2 teams with only 1 first round OL between them.
The idea of a super-unit is just so incredibly bogus. We tried it on the DL with Mo, Sheldon, Coples etc and it left holes elsewhere that ultimately proved insurmountable, I’m amazed anyone who was a jet fan through that period is still clinging onto such a discredited theory.

Lets build a strong OL by all means with improved depth but if this guy (Douglas) is such an OL guru then he should be finding starters in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. His approach to DB last year was genuinely impressive and seems to have worked out well. I’d like to see him do that again with another position group and would even be ok if we loaded up on IOL or OT in those latter rounds but for god sake enough with the insanity that is taking an OG at 4 or 10 or an undersized C anywhere inside the top 20

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Matt39 said:

If the Jets go oline at 4 Becton won’t be on the team.

Not according to this alleged plan. 

Two veterans at LT and C they want to extend, PLUS back-to-back-to-back 1st round picks in slots 11, 14, and then #4 when they just need a RG and some backup depth (read: not a starter) at tackle. 

Cliches about a super-unit aside, what championship team has ever been built that way, at the expense of so many other positions on an otherwise comparatively bad team, particularly on D?

Meanwhile the team needs an outside pass rusher, could really use another serious WR (two, if they fail to re-sign Berrios), two TEs, at least one LB, at least one CB, and at least one S -- and all that's if Wilson, the elephant in the room, takes a big leap forward. The reason that's relevant isn't for this draft, but for next year's. i.e. don't rely upon waiting until next year's round 1 pick to add an edge rusher; we may be looking for a QB if Wilson really flops.

2022 OL:

1. Sign a RG starter at $10MM or less (who won't command 2 fully guaranteed seasons);
2. Sign a veteran $5MM-ish backup tackle;
3. Draft another G/C prospect in round 3 (give or take a round); if he looks good then that new RG or the veteran C are expendable enough to trade & get a pick back.
4. Maybe draft another in round 5, or later if they gain a pick from a trade-down. But don't force it: down there I'd want him to draft BAP not lower the already-low percentage picks by ruling out the best guy(s) left on his board to draft for position. 

Then it's easy to keep pick #4, and I'm ok with trading down to add another starter-level pick, even if he gets back less than chart value - I'll trust that was the best deal available - if they aren't truly smitten with an edge rusher there.

[Peteo]

In the 4th quarter of the SB the Bengals O-line was not up to the task which is the major reason why LA won.  I am all for getting top talent for the o-line.

[Matt39]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not according to this alleged plan. 

Two veterans at LT and C they want to extend, PLUS back-to-back-to-back 1st round picks in slots 11, 14, and then #4 when they just need a RG and some backup depth (read: not a starter) at tackle. 

Cliches about a super-unit aside, what championship team has ever been built that way, at the expense of so many other positions on an otherwise comparatively bad team, particularly on D?

Meanwhile the team needs an outside pass rusher, could really use another serious WR (two, if they fail to re-sign Berrios), two TEs, at least one LB, at least one CB, and at least one S -- and all that's if Wilson, the elephant in the room, takes a big leap forward. The reason that's relevant isn't for this draft, but for next year's. i.e. don't rely upon waiting until next year's round 1 pick to add an edge rusher; we may be looking for a QB if Wilson really flops.

2022 OL:

1. Sign a RG starter at $10MM or less (who won't command 2 fully guaranteed seasons);
2. Sign a veteran $5MM-ish backup tackle;
3. Draft another G/C prospect in round 3 (give or take a round); if he looks good then that new RG or the veteran C are expendable enough to trade & get a pick back.
4. Maybe draft another in round 5, or later if they gain a pick from a trade-down. But don't force it: down there I'd want him to draft BAP not lower the already-low percentage picks by ruling out the best guy(s) left on his board to draft for position. 

Then it's easy to keep pick #4, and I'm ok with trading down to add another starter-level pick, even if he gets back less than chart value - I'll trust that was the best deal available - if they aren't truly smitten with an edge rusher there.

Becton just sulks in the bench? He’s extra luggage if they draft the NC State kid. Fant is the sure fire starter regardless. 
 

anywho- pass rush and touchdown scorers need to be the focus. A back in round 2 is of more value than guard or DT.

[Matt39]

20 minutes ago, Peteo said:

In the 4th quarter of the SB the Bengals O-line was not up to the task which is the major reason why LA won.  I am all for getting top talent for the o-line.

Let’s score some touchdowns first before we start worrying about how the oline would fare in the Super Bowl.

[maury77]

You guys are still listening to the OP after he spent all off season telling you how Wilson would slide in and start producing right away in La Fleur's offense? Ok. 

[JetsRay]

54 minutes ago, football guy said:

I haven’t heard anything on Yeboah. He has upside but my guess is they don’t plan on him being anything more than a 3rd or 4th TE for 2022. It sounds like they really want to attack that group this year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them sign Njoku, then spend a day 2 and day 3 pick on some guys. 

Berrios can be a solid starting slot receiver who can have his own package of “exotic” plays and execute them at a high level. Coaching staff loves him, Zach loves him. He’s extremely valuable as a kind of “hybrid” player that can contribute in a variety of ways. He’s not going to be able to fill in at X or Z in place of Elijah Moore if he’s to miss time, but he can take on his “gadget” plays in a pinch and be featured in the slot. He may never be better than Crowder purely from a receiver perspective, but there’s things that he can do which are really valuable to this offense that Crowder could not do. 

Kirk fits but haven’t heard anything connecting him to the Jets at this point.

I don’t think LB will be a priority, but they’ll be opportunistic (think Day 2-3).

I’m trying to find out more about their safety and corner plans. I do believe they will try to get in on Marcus Williams but there’s going to be a ton of competition for him. I think it’s more likely they add a low-key addition in FA (maybe FS Jaquiski Tartt, who played for Saleh, or S Terrell Edmunds) and tackle it in the draft. I personally will not rule out Kyle Hamilton even if it’s not a move this administration would traditionally make. James Bradberry is a name to keep an eye on at CB. I think this is a draft fallback more so than a priority 

Great info and great thread, thank you.

Any thoughts on if Hamilton is a consideration at #4 or #10, is this particular player (not the position) a consideration given his talent level?  If there is no Hamilton, I understand the team is not looking to upgrade the position this high in the draft.