Joe Douglas’ Jets rosters will be built, not bought, while he’s GM

[rldev]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

If you win the SB with a couple of great drafts great plan.  The problem with that plan is the NFL penalizes teams for developing talent.  It's called a salary cap.  

It's a very small window to draft and develop players if you're actually good at it.  See the Seahawks.  Two great drafts followed by guys wanting to get paid when their rookie deals ran out. 

And yet the same top teams are in the playoffs every year for how long now? 

[Dunnie]

You realize he's already three years in.
While fans may discount his first year with Gase, his contract doesn't.
2022 is year 4. 
Not much time left to "win consistently before 5 years are up", given to "win consistently" would mean, at the very least, two winning seasons in a row.
Are you putting money down that 2022 and 2023 are winning seasons?

2022 8-9
2023 11-6

[doitny]

6 hours ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

The Athletic | Mar 18

You can be angry, frustrated. After three years, though, it’s clear nothing is going to change. Grandiose pre-market promises of aggression mean a little something different in Florham Park now than they have in years past. Those days of record-setting contracts, overpaying for stars, succumbing to the “Jets tax”? They’re gone. Long, long gone.

Joe Douglas has his price. He, not the market, determines the value of free agents. It’s fine if another team is willing to pay more. There’s always a contingency plan. Just not one that involves him reaching back into his wallet.

It’s a bold strategy — one few teams have the moxie to stick to. Among the reasons: It puts quite a bit more pressure on the NFL Draft. That’s certainly the case for the Jets this year.

this will change when we win. makes no sense to pay big contracts now.

like Buffalo with Von Miller. they paid that contract cause there a good team and there making a run NOW, or the Raiders with Adams. these teams are a player or 2 away from winning it. we are not. we need to make the playoffs or get close before we sign those types of contracts.

makes no sense for a 4 win team with a shakey QB to do that. Mac did it and it never worked out.

[Joe W. Namath]

14 minutes ago, doitny said:

this will change when we win. makes no sense to pay big contracts now.

like Buffalo with Von Miller. they paid that contract cause there a good team and there making a run NOW, or the Raiders with Adams. these teams are a player or 2 away from winning it. we are not. we need to make the playoffs or get close before we sign those types of contracts.

makes no sense for a 4 win team with a shakey QB to do that. Mac did it and it never worked out.

The Bills have won nothing and should not be used as any type of example as what to do. 

I think Joe Douglas will always stay away from making a stupid signing like Von Miller.

[genot]

1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I respect Moses  but he wasn’t needed anymore because  Fant or Becton will play LT. He got and deserved may I add, a 3 year contract with the Ravens. He isn’t in this teams long term plans.

Maye wasn’t worth paying because he had had his chance to prove himself in the Saleh scheme but wasn’t all that affective. Plus the guy they just signed to replace him is waaaay better . Also, you can’t disregard the injury.

Robbie isn’t worth WR1 money.

come on, seriously.

 

You know that's ridiculous. Maye got hurt halfway thru the 6th game of the season. And that organization filled with idiots, the Saints signed him to a deal well beyond what Douglas offered, AFTER HE was hurt.. Anderson isn't making the money most #1's get paid..

[GreenReaper]

I can't fault JD for what he's achieved in FA.  As much as I want more...more...more...from an emotional standpoint.  His discipline is a breath of fresh air from the GM position.  When you compare him to the Idzik's and Mac's...Jets had for a vision...and a plan...to implement that vision.   JD has both a vision...and a plan...in spades...over that clueless two.

I definitely wanted a high volume...go to...boss type wideout from FA.  To help take the pressure...not only off of ZW...but off of Corey Davis.  He couldn't handle the #1 receiver job.  He can be a good productive #2.  But he needs someone in front of him.  Before it's all said and done...there's still the possibility JD can trade for a Robert Woods.  Or trade for a Brandin Cooks as a consolation.   Or maybe something even more of a blockbuster.

And I certainly hope JD can get the highest WR on his board in the draft.  As well as a stud RB to help power a strong run attack.  A third TE...late in the draft.  

IMO JD is a master at trading up-down in the draft...targeting specific players he covets.  His collaboration with Saleh...was the best GM-HC tandem...since those "Tangini" days. 

Come draft day...JD-Saleh...knock it out of the park...for ZW...and the NYJ...por favor!

[Lith]

50 minutes ago, genot said:

What if Becton gets hurt, or is ineffective. Who would you rather have. Moses or McDermott.  Moses started 16 games last year. He isn't worth 5 million as a swing tackle, and insurance against the question around Becton. Anderson had 95 receptions the previous year. Bridgewater properly read defenses and got rid of the ball. Darnold was a broken QB, with a bunch of jazz for offensive lineman. I disregard Andersons season because of that, and what he did the year before.

I would have loved to see us keep Moses.  But he was a free agent, it was his choice.  If you are Morgan Moses, an 8 year vet who has been a starter every season since your rookie year.  You have never won a playoff game in that 8 year career.  You have a chance to be the likely starter on a team that has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, or you can stay with the Jets as a likely back-up on a team trying to end an 11 year playoff drought. 

Where would you rather play?

[genot]

20 minutes ago, Lith said:

I would have loved to see us keep Moses.  But he was a free agent, it was his choice.  If you are Morgan Moses, an 8 year vet who has been a starter every season since your rookie year.  You have never won a playoff game in that 8 year career.  You have a chance to be the likely starter on a team that has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, or you can stay with the Jets as a likely back-up on a team trying to end an 11 year playoff drought. 

Where would you rather play?

I agree, if he didn't want to be here. It's interesting that McDermott signed before Moses did. Curious if the Jets made an offer??

[CanadienJetsFan]

44 minutes ago, genot said:

You know that's ridiculous. Maye got hurt halfway thru the 6th game of the season. And that organization filled with idiots, the Saints signed him to a deal well beyond what Douglas offered, AFTER HE was hurt.. Anderson isn't making the money most #1's get paid..

Lol, Maye …. Like I said the guy they just signed is way better than him you know it.

And if I’m not mistaken, they paid the guy more than Maye got in New Orleans. 

so if you want to die on this hill, have at it. 
anyway, the premise of your argument is that JD won’t pay our own players as they matured.

My argument is the players that we had flat out sucked.
 

[Origen]

36 minutes ago, Lith said:

I would have loved to see us keep Moses.  But he was a free agent, it was his choice.  If you are Morgan Moses, an 8 year vet who has been a starter every season since your rookie year.  You have never won a playoff game in that 8 year career.  You have a chance to be the likely starter on a team that has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, or you can stay with the Jets as a likely back-up on a team trying to end an 11 year playoff drought. 

Where would you rather play?

Plus he probably didn't move his family to NJ last year, they most likely have a nice house in Virginia or wherever all the Commanders players live nowadays.  Much closer to Bowlmore

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, genot said:

What if Becton gets hurt, or is ineffective. Who would you rather have. Moses or McDermott.  Moses started 16 games last year. He isn't worth 5 million as a swing tackle, and insurance against the question around Becton. Anderson had 95 receptions the previous year. Bridgewater properly read defenses and got rid of the ball. Darnold was a broken QB, with a bunch of jazz for offensive lineman. I disregard Andersons season because of that, and what he did the year before.

Moses was never staying on as a back-up.

You don’t just get to disregard a year of ineffectiveness and attitude issues.  He halved his production.  That’s not just Darnold, PJ Walker, and Cam.

[Be_a_Jet]

You build through the draft and then when your in striking distance you spend the big money and go for it. 
 

As simple as that sounds there’s a lot of ways to screw it up along the way. 

[68JET11]

7 hours ago, genot said:

I think you have to be a little more flexible with regards to spending on FA, and resigning your own players. Nobody wants  to spend way above what another team might spend on players. If JD continues with this approach we should prepare for a revolving door of players here. And if any one approaches pro bowl potential,  we should be prepared to wave goodbye. Don't support this ultra ridged approach.

I'm guessing you've never heard of replenishing your team via the draft and FA... We don't need guys like Trumaine J. or those type of contracts. They were bad for the team. Resigning Revis after him playing for NE, was a big mistake, and it's one that Macc made repeatedly. I'm willing to see how this works a different way. JD seems to have a very intelligent mind. He may be a bit stubborn when it comes to FA, but if he hits on the 2022 draft then I think it's safe to say that his approach will be very welcomed here. While he'll never hit on 100% of his draft picks, if most make the team and at least everyone in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds are starters, and he hits on some late rounders that eventually turn into starters, then I think most of us will be happy.

[68JET11]

6 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

JD is playing with fire with the WR position and that’s beyond stupid for a QB you invested so much in. We did the same with Sanchez and then loaded Sam with ultra trash. And now we believe Corey, who has never had a 1k season, will be the savior unless his draft pick is an instant hit. 

How do you know who he is going to draft this year... I get most of this crowd wanted to sign a FA WR, me included, however those contracts that were given out last week were crazy high. We're going to draft WR, I hope we get Watson the kid from NDS. He had a good senior bowl, and I think the JETS staff was impressed with him. Hope he is there in Rnd 2.

[genot]

1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Lol, Maye …. Like I said the guy they just signed is way better than him you know it.

And if I’m not mistaken, they paid the guy more than Maye got in New Orleans. 

so if you want to die on this hill, have at it. 
anyway, the premise of your argument is that JD won’t pay our own players as they matured.

My argument is the players that we had flat out sucked.
 

Whitehead signed for 3 mill less than what Maye signed for. The exact amount that was offered to Maye before the start of the season. I'm not down on Whitehed. It is a fact that the Bucs didn't make him a contract offer.

[genot]

18 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I'm guessing you've never heard of replenishing your team via the draft and FA... We don't need guys like Trumaine J. or those type of contracts. They were bad for the team. Resigning Revis after him playing for NE, was a big mistake, and it's one that Macc made repeatedly. I'm willing to see how this works a different way. JD seems to have a very intelligent mind. He may be a bit stubborn when it comes to FA, but if he hits on the 2022 draft then I think it's safe to say that his approach will be very welcomed here. While he'll never hit on 100% of his draft picks, if most make the team and at least everyone in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds are starters, and he hits on some late rounders that eventually turn into starters, then I think most of us will be happy.

You have to be smart about it. Mac wasn't. 

[David Harris]

? 

[68JET11]

Just now, genot said:

You have to be smart about it. Mac wasn't. 

I guess we'll all see in the next few years whether JD is smart...

[CSNY]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

You realize he's already three years in.

While fans may discount his first year with Gase, his contract doesn't.

2022 is year 4. 

Not much time left to "win consistently before 5 years are up", given to "win consistently" would mean, at the very least, two winning seasons in a row.

Are you putting money down that 2022 and 2023 are winning seasons?

Douglas was hired June of 2019 he has been here approximately 33 months which is not 3 years and June of 2022 he will not have been here 4 years he will be entering his forth year big difference 

[Beerfish]

Well issue with Moses was not that we could not retain him if he wanted to go it was paying Dan freaking Feeney 3.5 million when moses only got 5.  That rubs me the wrong way.

[Mogglez]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Well issue with Moses was not that we could not retain him if he wanted to go it was paying Dan freaking Feeney 3.5 million when moses only got 5.  That rubs me the wrong way.

Moses got 5 and a starting job.  He’s not starting over Fant or Becton, nor should he.

[CSNY]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Moses got 5 and a starting job.  He’s not starting over Fant or Becton, nor should he.

Plus is signed for three years 

[genot]

38 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I guess we'll all see in the next few years whether JD is smart...

JD has done some really good things.Sometimes you have to be bold, and maybe take a risk. Would Josh Allen have developed if it wasn't for Diggs. Curious who he has called, and what player he's inquired about. And, was it a serious offer.

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Moses got 5 and a starting job.  He’s not starting over Fant or Becton, nor should he.

Yes, I accept that he was not coming back though we should have been able to offer more than 5.  Paying Dan Feeney 3.5 is egregious.

[Larz]

7 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

You will get glimpses this year.  We will be a much better football team winning btwn 7-9 games.  2023 is the year Douglas and Saleh have circled on the calendar.  We are going to take off like a rocketship and not look back for a decade or more.

Some cant see the forrest for the trees but I can.  This is the work of a smart and insanely patient man.  When it comes to fruition, you will be amazed u didnt see it sooner.

When the jets get off to the traditional 0-3 start, don’t hide 

[Integrity28]

The best recipes use both salt and pepper.

[Gramsci]

3 hours ago, genot said:

I agree, if he didn't want to be here. It's interesting that McDermott signed before Moses did. Curious if the Jets made an offer??

One is comfortable being a backup, the other one can be a starter in a playoff contender. 

I don't think it's hard to understand that. 

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Yes, I accept that he was not coming back though we should have been able to offer more than 5.  Paying Dan Feeney 3.5 is egregious.

Not really.  Feeney is getting 3.5 to be a backup center and G.  That’s about the going rate for a veteran backup.  Even if I’m not a fan of the player, he knows the system, is versatile, his teammates likes him, and there aren’t really guys out there much better than him, that check all the boxes he does, will take the money he’s making, or who want to be backups.

Moses didn’t get an offer because Moses wanted to start and the Jets couldn’t offer him that, nor should they have offered him that.  The money was never an issue.  If they needed him, they would have offered him something.

[Beerfish]

30 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Not really.  Feeney is getting 3.5 to be a backup center and G.  That’s about the going rate for a veteran backup.  Even if I’m not a fan of the player, he knows the system, is versatile, his teammates likes him, and there aren’t really guys out there much better than him, that check all the boxes he does, will take the money he’s making, or who want to be backups.

Moses didn’t get an offer because Moses wanted to start and the Jets couldn’t offer him that, nor should they have offered him that.  The money was never an issue.  If they needed him, they would have offered him something.

Bolded is the issue.  He can't play.  All your other points are valid.  If you are a great guy and know the system and get beat like a drum it does not matter.

As I said in another thread, this one is under the 'I can't believe they could not find someone better' category.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Bolded is the issue.  He can't play.  All your other points are valid.  If you are a great guy and know the system and get beat like a drum it does not matter.

As I said in another thread, this one is under the 'I can't believe they could not find someone better' category.

We’ll it’s also like I said, there wasn’t anyone better who would also take a backup job and back up money.  Feeney isn’t a good player, just like most back-ups.  That being said, he gets a far worse rep because he’s eccentric and stands out with his looks, but the truth is that he grades out just about the way you expect a back up to grade out.  If we were paying him to be a starter, then I would understand the gripe, but the dude is actually decent depth.  We also haven’t even gotten to the draft yet, so who knows if he even makes it to the 53 man roster.

[genot]

2 hours ago, Gramsci said:

One is comfortable being a backup, the other one can be a starter in a playoff contender. 

I don't think it's hard to understand that. 

Ravens aren't no contender with the Bengals and Brown in that division

[derp]

37 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

We’ll it’s also like I said, there wasn’t anyone better who would also take a backup job and back up money.  Feeney isn’t a good player, just like most back-ups.  That being said, he gets a far worse rep because he’s eccentric and stands out with his looks, but the truth is that he grades out just about the way you expect a back up to grade out.  If we were paying him to be a starter, then I would understand the gripe, but the dude is actually decent depth.  We also haven’t even gotten to the draft yet, so who knows if he even makes it to the 53 man roster.

I believe the entire contract is guaranteed, which isn’t awesome in terms of the end of your post. There’s a slight but important distinction between “we’ll sign Feeney so we don’t need to draft someone in the backup role” and “Feeney will be on the roster”. Thought this was a good draft to build OL depth, doesn’t seem like they’re going that route.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I respect Moses  but he wasn’t needed anymore because  Fant or Becton will play LT. He got and deserved may I add, a 3 year contract with the Ravens. He isn’t in this teams long term plans.

Maye wasn’t worth paying because he had had his chance to prove himself in the Saleh scheme but wasn’t all that affective. Plus the guy they just signed to replace him is waaaay better . Also, you can’t disregard the injury.

Robbie isn’t worth WR1 money.

come on, seriously.

 

Why is this still repeated - let alone with a "seriously" tag line - as though WR1 money is in any way relevant to extending him in 2019 or letting him go in 2020?

He got $10MM/year when he left the Jets. That's not WR1 money, and it hasn't been for many years. It's about the same per year (and less money guaranteed) than the Jets gave Santonio Holmes a decade earlier. 

Of course he wasn't worth WR1 money. And he didn't get it either, nor would it have taken WR1 money to stop him from reaching FA. He should have been extended for the $9MM Enunwa got, back at the time Douglas turned down draft picks for him in late Oct 2019 and Anderson was celebrating on twitter because he didn't get traded away to a contender (which only helps confirm that he has no brains). With the 1-6 Jets all but mathematically eliminated, 9 more games of Anderson wasn't worth a 4th round pick in the upcoming draft. Rookie GM mistake.

Also RA was worth $10MM more than Breshad Perriman was worth $6.5MM (which iirc would've been $8MM if he'd been worth a damn and hit any of his incentives). Plus that 2 yrs $20MM contract probably would've prevented the Jets from guaranteeing 2 years to Corey Davis, who's so far had one sub-500 yard season for $14MM. I hope his $13MM year 2 eclipses that, but so far 2 guaranteed years of Robby for $20MM (plus then being freer to upgrade in FA plus maybe getting a comp pick back in 2023) >>> 1 year of Perriman + 2 years of Davis for $33MM. 

Agree on Moses, though. He was a great pickup in hindsight, without knowing then that Becton would miss the whole season and Fant would slide over to LT and do a brilliant job in pass protection. Just because I fear even worse (lol) I'd have been supportive of bringing him back, but these guys want to start and the Jets would be offering him a camp competition at best (with their thumb on the scales to give it to someone else). Also in truth he wasn't a great scheme fit and let rushers pressure, hurry, sack, and hit Jets' QBs more than 100x last year on under 700 pass block snaps (which itself includes planned quick passes to backs & such). 3 penalties and 4 sacks is very solid for a whole season starting, but the rest he surrendered weren't: compared to other tackles he gave up the NFL's 7th-most pressures; 5th-most hurries; and 6th-most QB hits.

So I'm ok moving on from Moses, but not if McDermott is the extent of their plans for the OT3 job this year. Until they sign a serious veteran tackle - knowing the risks of missed playing time from both Fant and Becton - means to me OT is still a possibility at #4, as much as I dislike that idea.

[genot]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Moses was never staying on as a back-up.

You don’t just get to disregard a year of ineffectiveness and attitude issues.  He halved his production.  That’s not just Darnold, PJ Walker, and Cam.

If you read my Darnold osts over the cost of the year, year and a half, you would know I was his biggest defender  Because of that, I watched all his games in Carolina.He did not look Andersons way. When he did, he was wildly inaccurate.  At the end of the season  Anderson showed his emotion and perhaps some immaturity.  Make no mistake about it. He was open a lot, but never got the ball. With Bridgewater he did.Your right about Moses. The thing is, Saleh and Douglaz have said, Becton isn't  guaranteed a starting job next year. It would have been a good thing to have Moses return. Even on a one year deal. With a higher base and guarantees than what he got from Ravens.

[Jet2020]

8 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

How do you know who he is going to draft this year... I get most of this crowd wanted to sign a FA WR, me included, however those contracts that were given out last week were crazy high. We're going to draft WR, I hope we get Watson the kid from NDS. He had a good senior bowl, and I think the JETS staff was impressed with him. Hope he is there in Rnd 2.

IDK who he will draft but if he doesn’t draft a WR with one of his top 4 draft picks, I’ll be first to pitch in the “fire JD” billboards if Wilson plays like he did last year. As for those fat contracts, the already good teams handed them out to help their already solid QBs, yet Jets thought it was a good idea to not bring in proper help for their struggling QB. Unless you think the 2500 yards over 11 years by two TEs is an improvement. 

Yeah you wanna build through the draft but when you don’t have a solid track record, perhaps try not to put all those eggs in the draft basket. If the draft pick (assuming we draft a WR early on) gets injured (most likely scenario for JD picks), then Moore n Davis ain’t doing sh!t for Wilson.