The Price of a WIN

[SayNoToDMC]

Tanking games and not putting 100% effort on all fronts to win a game destroys the competitive integrity of the league.  If the fans cant trust the results of each game, there's no point in even playing the games or watching them.

 

 

You might want to find another sport to watch

[Savage69]

Well, if we lost all our games, then we would be KINGS of the draft. Your whole argument is based on your conviction that Mariota will be a franchise QB. That's highly debatable, obviously. Secondly, why if this is true have some of the best drafting teams of the past 20 years been usually around 20-30 in the first round? Teams like the Steelers have traditionally drafted extremely well for one interesting reason: they draft very well late in the draft. Truth is, if a team drafts well, their location in the first round is moot -- the only exception to that is when the rare generational QB appears and goes #1, such as Luck or P. Manning.

I have always believed the Draft for the most part is a crap shoot.. College stats and player performance became fact in the NFL about 25% of the time if that.. In 2000 we took a QB with a 1st rd pick but the one that won 4 bowls and is going to the HOF was a 6th rd pick..

[peekskill68]

If you go on the integrity of the game theme and if you're honest, Tennessee sucked worse than we did last year so they deserve a higher pick.  Having said that, I'm surprised Tampa hasn't received more crap for playing all their backups in that last game vs. the Saints where they jumped out to a big lead early and wound up losing.  That smelled like a tank job....

[RutgersJetFan]

Well, this thread is just fantastic.

[BlakeSpenceBlockedPunt]

I love the Jets and hate to see them lose.  However, once we're mathematically eliminated I start thinking about the following season.  I want to see the team do everything in its power to improve and compete for a championship.  I want to see what I have in younger players.  I also want to do everything in my power to get a better draft pick.  Games that are between two terrible team where the only thing of consequence hanging in the balance is draft position are games I want to lose...to give myself a better pick the next year.  I know what Calvin Pace and Dawan Landry can do.  I don't need to see them on the field.  I don't know with IK, Dokota Dozier, Dalton Freeman, etc. can do.  

 

I don't care how they do it.  Once we're out of it...start playing for the future.

[jgb]

hindsight is wonderful. jets should purposefully go 0-16 five years in a row to build a superteam.

[dbatesman]

Vernon Gholston > Matt Ryan

[jgb]

I love the Jets and hate to see them lose.  However, once we're mathematically eliminated I start thinking about the following season.  I want to see the team do everything in its power to improve and compete for a championship.  I want to see what I have in younger players.  I also want to do everything in my power to get a better draft pick.  Games that are between two terrible team where the only thing of consequence hanging in the balance is draft position are games I want to lose...to give myself a better pick the next year.  I know what Calvin Pace and Dawan Landry can do.  I don't need to see them on the field.  I don't know with IK, Dokota Dozier, Dalton Freeman, etc. can do.  

 

I don't care how they do it.  Once we're out of it...start playing for the future.

 

yeah too bad the guys on the sidelines and playing on the field have kids at home and mouths to feed. vast majority of time everyone's job is in jeopardy when you have one of those years where tanking would "help you," not reasonable to ask others to sacrifice their future so jets can move up some draft slots.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

If tanking was Idzik's plan, he would have fired Rex mid season and hung Marty out to dry  

 

but then he might still be GM

[CanadaSteve]

You really need to let this go, as does everyone who believes this. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

I have always believed the Draft for the most part is a crap shoot.. College stats and player performance became fact in the NFL about 25% of the time if that.. In 2000 we took a QB with a 1st rd pick but the one that won 4 bowls and is going to the HOF was a 6th rd pick..

Overall, you right -- law of averages. But there have been a few high quality organizations that have bucked the odds year after year. All it takes is getting one or two starters from around 4 and down and it will move a team's needle in a positive direction very quickly. There are no throw-away picks in the draft and there are no sure-things either. And there are organizations on the other end of the curve that draft poorly year after year or trade away picks for vets. An elite scouting department could very well be one of the most important elements of a team's management. Ours has been mediocre at best.

[UnitedWhofans]

This year would not have been a good year to tank. If you tank you better make sure that the prospect you are tanking is 100% ready to go and will be a success. Neither of these two QBs are so there would be no reason to tank.

 

Last year, ODJ slipped to 11th. That means 10 teams passed on him. They should feel bad, not us.

[RutgersJetFan]

Vernon Gholston > Matt Ryan

u cant just tell denario Davis to not make tackles so what else is there to talk about

[New York Mick]

******* retarded

[Clementi49]

Completely different set of circumstances if Obj was drafted by our team. I don't like when people assume it would be the same thing.

Obj on the jets last year would of had 40 catches for 550 yards and 4 tds. And that's a big maybe.

Good for his career he became a superstar overnight where he was. I'm sure he's happy.

[BrickTamland]

If tanking was Idzik's plan, he would have fired Rex mid season and hung Marty out to dry  

 

but then he might still be GM

 I doubt he had the authority to fire. The power structure of the Jets when Rex was kept and Idzik was brought in was a mess. I have no idea how the power was supposed to be allocated at that point, but it never seemed like Idzik was in charge of what happened with Rex. JMO

[JetBlue]

Honestly, the earlier picks don't necessarily guarantee anything. 

 

To me, the value this year is going to be the ransom a few teams are willing to pay to move up. Not necessarily the opportunity to have had any one guy.

 

I get the sentiment though, and to me the frustration with the meaningless wins was more about Rex throwing accelerant on the dumpster fire he created here. To not be picking in the top 3 after a dogsh*t season like that is endemic of Rex's legacy.

THIS

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

 I doubt he had the authority to fire. The power structure of the Jets when Rex was kept and Idzik was brought in was a mess. I have no idea how the power was supposed to be allocated at that point, but it never seemed like Idzik was in charge of what happened with Rex. JMO

That makes sense based on what happened, just surprised that level of disfunction did not become public sooner

 

Bridgewater fell to the Jets last year, it's possible Mariota falls this year, and there is always next year 

[Shockwave]

For all those pundits who say the players suit up and "Play to Win the Game" as a season draws to a close and ensures a losing record, you cost us HOPE. We all agree that each player should be mentally and physically prepared to play, even for one down. But, the win vs TEN ( wk 14 ) and that last game of the season win vs MIA cost us Mariota. The decision of Rex's fate had already been made and so so too the evaluation of his staff. I am not advocating TANKING a game like "SUCK FOR LUCK" but, those 2 meaningless games were very COSTLY. What I am saying is:

1. Rather than play a starter who is injured and risking further and more serious injury, Sit Him and play his backup. Then, I tell that player "Show me What You Got" and see how he performs. You are playing for our Team's or your next Team's evaluation.

2. I carefully consider my play selection at certain points on 3rd down or Red Zone opportunities. I am not purposely giving up a turnover, but, select a play with a lesser chance of success vs the opponent's matchup would go unnoticed by many.

3. Timeout selection or player substation when he is winded gives our opposing teams a greater opportunity for success, so I choose wisely.

Again, I am not saying we approach it like a last pre season game, but, I would carefully consider every decision regarding these late season games carefully. As long as the players on the field played their hearts out and we were entertained , those in attendance wouldn't even notice.

I hope the bounty of 3 or even 2 1st rd picks to move up when we need them next year discourages them from pulling the trigger. Listening to Maccagnan's press conference yesterday left me with an opinion that he is a bright man who carefully selects his words and has a plan. But, I still remember watching those games we won and saying to my son "That cost a Good Player in the Draft".

It really comes down to playing lesser players - Its a coaching thing. 

 

You play Matt Sims, You play play your rookies so you know what you have next year. Every team does it.  Tampa did it against New Orleans last season to ensure a loss. 

 

It goes back to Woody not firing rex last year, or at the Bye week. We were a circus. 

[Villain The Foe]

For all those pundits who say the players suit up and "Play to Win the Game" as a season draws to a close and ensures a losing record, you cost us HOPE. We all agree that each player should be mentally and physically prepared to play, even for one down. But, the win vs TEN ( wk 14 ) and that last game of the season win vs MIA cost us Mariota. The decision of Rex's fate had already been made and so so too the evaluation of his staff. I am not advocating TANKING a game like "SUCK FOR LUCK" but, those 2 meaningless games were very COSTLY. What I am saying is:

1. Rather than play a starter who is injured and risking further and more serious injury, Sit Him and play his backup. Then, I tell that player "Show me What You Got" and see how he performs. You are playing for our Team's or your next Team's evaluation.

2. I carefully consider my play selection at certain points on 3rd down or Red Zone opportunities. I am not purposely giving up a turnover, but, select a play with a lesser chance of success vs the opponent's matchup would go unnoticed by many.

3. Timeout selection or player substation when he is winded gives our opposing teams a greater opportunity for success, so I choose wisely.

Again, I am not saying we approach it like a last pre season game, but, I would carefully consider every decision regarding these late season games carefully. As long as the players on the field played their hearts out and we were entertained , those in attendance wouldn't even notice.

I hope the bounty of 3 or even 2 1st rd picks to move up when we need them next year discourages them from pulling the trigger. Listening to Maccagnan's press conference yesterday left me with an opinion that he is a bright man who carefully selects his words and has a plan. But, I still remember watching those games we won and saying to my son "That cost a Good Player in the Draft".

I hope you didnt think this up in your man cave and give all man cave's a bad name. 

[CTM]

Rex did all he could to lose those games... He started Geno.. shoulda been a shoe in..  Geno's the culprit

 

 

fwiw.. There's 3 scenarios in which this really hurts us

 

1) SD trades Rivers for Mariota

2) Someone trades a boat load of picks for him

3) We draft White cause Cooper is gone (I tend to think they are thinking pass rusher rd1 so I don't think it's likely we'd have drafted Cooper even if at 4)

[pdxgreen]

I remember them interviewing Michael Irvin at the Hall of Fame and asking him why he had no problems going over the middle. He said, "it's that or back to the ghetto!"

[T0mShane]

It's hard to play to lose, but this will hurt to see happen in front of us:

Rumor emerges of 3-way PHI-TEN-CLE swap

NJ.com's Mark Eckel passes along a "rumor making its rounds in NFL personnel meetings" of the Eagles trading Sam Bradford to the Browns for the No. 19 overall pick in the draft.

The Browns already offered No. 19 to the Rams for Bradford, prior to his trade to Philadelphia. St. Louis didn't accept because it wanted a quarterback, and wound up acquiring Nick Foles. The Browns are "still said to have interest" in Bradford. Per Eckel, the rumor has the Eagles then sending Nos. 19 and 20 -- plus Mychal Kendricks and Fletcher Cox -- to the Titans in exchange for No. 2 overall, where Philly would select Marcus Mariota. Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reported Friday that Bradford currently believes the Eagles may be planning to trade him.

Source: NJ.com Apr 24 - 2:25 PM

[Doggin94it]

"I'm not saying tank, just pick plays that are less likely to work"

[jgb]

So if mariota busts we need to thank rex?

[Sperm Edwards]

Honestly, the earlier picks don't necessarily guarantee anything. 

 

To me, the value this year is going to be the ransom a few teams are willing to pay to move up. Not necessarily the opportunity to have had any one guy.

 

I get the sentiment though, and to me the frustration with the meaningless wins was more about Rex throwing accelerant on the dumpster fire he created here. To not be picking in the top 3 after a dogsh*t season like that is endemic of Rex's legacy.

What if Seattle had the #6 pick in 2013 and they took Tannehill? Then they don't also draft Wilson in the 3rd, and the other subsequent reversals of fortune.

[Integrity28]

What if Seattle had the #6 pick in 2013 and they took Tannehill? Then they don't also draft Wilson in the 3rd, and the other subsequent reversals of fortune.

 

Then we'd have been fed self-preservation stories about how Bradway was banging the table for Tannehill.

[HessStation]

OMG not a RF and Marriotto sucks.

[Sperm Edwards]

Then we'd have been fed self-preservation stories about how Bradway was banging the table for Tannehill.

 

Funny Bradway didn't leak any stories about how he was banging on the table for Stephen Hill.  I know our GM and HC weren't the ones scouting him yet we mysteriously just had to have him and traded up in round 2 for the must-have Megatron-lite. 

 

Or when "the Jets" (read: Terry Bradway) allegedly had a 1st round grade on Vladimir Ducasse, to illustrate what a steal he supposedly was at the bottom of round 2? When the 61st pick came around in 2010 I'll bet Bradway was on all fours on the table jumping and banging down on it and beating his chest like a gorilla.

 

But we aren't treated to those leaked stories for some mysterious reason.

[T0mShane]

Funny Bradway didn't leak any stories about how he was banging on the table for Stephen Hill.  I know our GM and HC weren't the ones scouting him yet we mysteriously just had to have him and traded up in round 2 for the must-have Megatron-lite. 

 

Or when "the Jets" (read: Terry Bradway) allegedly had a 1st round grade on Vladimir Ducasse, to illustrate what a steal he supposedly was at the bottom of round 2? When the 61st pick came around in 2010 I'll bet Bradway was on all fours on the table jumping and banging down on it and beating his chest like a gorilla.

 

But we aren't treated to those leaked stories for some mysterious reason.

 

 

We made the guy who put a first round grade on Shonn Greene our DIrector of Scouting for awhile. Joe Bommarito told the podcast that Stephen Hill was "going to be fine" less than a year ago. The whole scouting department was a trash heap for over a decade, and if it wasn't for Mangini's temporary intervention, and Rex with the DL, the team would have absolutely cratered. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Funny Bradway didn't leak any stories about how he was banging on the table for Stephen Hill.  I know our GM and HC weren't the ones scouting him yet we mysteriously just had to have him and traded up in round 2 for the must-have Megatron-lite. 

 

Or when "the Jets" (read: Terry Bradway) allegedly had a 1st round grade on Vladimir Ducasse, to illustrate what a steal he supposedly was at the bottom of round 2? When the 61st pick came around in 2010 I'll bet Bradway was on all fours on the table jumping and banging down on it and beating his chest like a gorilla.

 

But we aren't treated to those leaked stories for some mysterious reason.

 

Hill was a great example of a combine warrior, he was great in the drills but did not have the game tape to back it up, not saying there are not examples of that working, see JPP but it is a gamble 

 

Even worse then the Ducasse draft pick itself was Tanny cutting Alan Faneca right after the pick while he was at dinner with Mangold, talk about screwing up a Oline in a hurry 

[FidelioJet]

Hill was a great example of a combine warrior, he was great in the drills but did not have the game tape to back it up, not saying there are not examples of that working, see JPP but it is a gamble 

 

Even worse then the Ducasse draft pick itself was Tanny cutting Alan Faneca right after the pick while he was at dinner with Mangold, talk about screwing up a Oline in a hurry 

Yup...

 

Tanny's biggest mistake as GM was letting that o-line fall apart.  That team won because we had the best offensive line in football - they needed to keep those guys together.  It was obvious at the time and truly mind blowing the way he allowed that line to break-up.

[TuscanyTile2]

Rex did all he could to lose those games... He started Geno.. shoulda been a shoe in..  Geno's the culprit

 

 

fwiw.. There's 3 scenarios in which this really hurts us

 

1) SD trades Rivers for Mariota

2) Someone trades a boat load of picks for him

3) We draft White cause Cooper is gone (I tend to think they are thinking pass rusher rd1 so I don't think it's likely we'd have drafted Cooper even if at 4)

 

I could be wrong but I have the impression that there's no way Cooper falls to 6.  I think he's viewed as a sure thing and teams picking top 5 value the certainty of success of that pick.  Obviously you have to take your shot w/ a QB (if you think he's got potential) over Cooper because of the importance of the position (a good QB can completely transform a team) and how difficult it is to acquire a good one.  But other than Leonard Williams, it doesn't sound like there are any other "sure thing" type players.  This is not to say Williams and Cooper will even be the best of their rookie class.  Just that they're viewed as the safest.

 

I do think we will draft Cooper if he somehow falls to us but I've already mentally prepared myself (lol) that we're not getting him. 

[CTM]

I could be wrong but I have the impression that there's no way Cooper falls to 6.  I think he's viewed as a sure thing and teams picking top 5 value the certainty of success of that pick.  Obviously you have to take your shot w/ a QB (if you think he's got potential) over Cooper because of the importance of the position (a good QB can completely transform a team) and how difficult it is to acquire a good one.  But other than Leonard Williams, it doesn't sound like there are any other "sure thing" type players.  This is not to say Williams and Cooper will even be the best of their rookie class.  Just that they're viewed as the safest.

 

I do think we will draft Cooper if he somehow falls to us but I've already mentally prepared myself (lol) that we're not getting him. 

 

 

My guess is that GM's/Scouts are as divided as interweb posters and "draft experts"... think there's a chance Cooper is there, especially if Mariota is gone

[Sperm Edwards]

Hill was a great example of a combine warrior, he was great in the drills but did not have the game tape to back it up, not saying there are not examples of that working, see JPP but it is a gamble 

 

Even worse then the Ducasse draft pick itself was Tanny cutting Alan Faneca right after the pick while he was at dinner with Mangold, talk about screwing up a Oline in a hurry

Meh. Slauson wasn't even an overall downgrade at that point. Faneca was statistically the worst pass blocking guard in the league his 2nd year with us and was out of the league the next year after we cut ties.

Letting him go was probably more Callahan's idea than Bradway's. They clearly just didn't want him anymore even with a $6-7M guaranteed salary that we still ate almost all of while he was with Arizona.